Break Week ZKK Wasn't a "Baseless" or "Delusional" Theory

[CensoredbyWG]

In any other series it would have been a fine theory. Zoro slicing a dragon in front of the capital to parallel Sword God Ryuma? Sure.
But this is the Luffy’s show.
I think the problems people have with ZKK is how agressive and arrogants some of the believers. Ridiculing anyone who didn’t believe it was happening.

It wouldnt because no other story has fans as delusional as ZKKrs.

Ryuma was always meant to parallel luffy because he is the MAIN CHARACTER, he is the Savior of wano, he is the man yamato was waiting after reading oden's diary, he is the man Momo and the akazaya nine waited to help them, he is the only one with VOAT other than oden, roger and Momo.

Ryuma was ALWAYS meant to parallel luffy.

 

[Dragon777]

It was a plausible theory with two great, glaring flaws:

- it was totally obvious that the first Emperor to fall could not, under any circumstances, fall by the hand of another mugy than Luffy;

- aside from edgy phrases and third-tier characters, the mugy are "good": They don't kill people and much less they do it while being glorified in a double page.
The better it could happen is that a character dies as an indirect consequence of being beaten, like maybe Kaido or BM did.

So ZKK was always wishful thinking at best.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

It wasn’t the worst theory

but it made less and less sense after the rooftop battle ended.

 

[uyuu]

ZKK was wrong, but there were many plot threads pointing to it that Oda just abandoned in Wano.

It's not the case that there was no basis for ZKK:

1. A look at Inherited Will in the Land of Wano
   • An analysis of the Oden's will to slay Kaido and open Wano's borders, passed on to his Scabbards and to Roronoa Zoro through Enma.
2. The Second Advent
   • "Sword God" Shimotsuki Ryuma, Shimotsuki Zoro, and Dragon Slaying
3. Long Live ZKK
   • Reasons to still believe in ZKK after chapters 1010 - 1012.
4. Kaido Must Die
   • The narrative necessity of Kaido's death.
5. No, Zoro is NOT "Done" After Defeating King
   • Zoro still has more to accomplish in the Wano arc in order to bring his character arc to a truly satisfying conclusion.

There's a reason many Zoro fans considered Oda's handling of Zoro's character a disappointment. Powerscaling and the ZKK agenda aside, Oda just abandoned many of the threads he set up involving Zoro:

• The second coming of Ryuma/Ryuma parallels in general
  • The comments that perhaps the legend of Ryuma slaying a dragon might be replicated
• Kaido's statement that there would never be a monstrous samurai of the likes of Kozuki Oden again
• Zoro saying he would round up the samurai
• Zoro wanting to visit Ryuma's grave
  • The plot with Shusui in general, Ryuma said it was that sword's will that Zoro wield it, and then Oda just had it replaced and never gave Zoro any closure
• Zoro's interest in the Nidai Kitetsu
• Zoro's lineage
• Zoro seeing the Grim Reaper/death
• Zoro getting recognised as a hero
• Etc.

I do not regret my ZKK threads. Given the evidence available at the time, there was a strong case to be made and I'm okay with having made it.

I don't really have much investment in Zoro's character anymore. Oda really just didn't follow through on Zoro's character in Wano.





Like Yamato vs Nakama was another theory that had a very strong basis but which Oda didn't execute on:

1. Some Thoughts on Yamato 4 Nakama
2. Against Nakama Purity Tests

I advocated for both theories and I don't regret it.

They weren't baseless or unfounded or sheer wishful thinking.

Insomuch as theorising has any basis at all, ZKK and Yamato 4 Nakama were some of the more well founded theories.

The theory itself is not too delusional, but the fanbase forcing others to agree that it will absolutely happen is delusional. Any fanbase can make some prediction as long as

- there are specks of dialogues or scenes of their fave character being determined to do this or that, to defeat this guy or that guy.

- or there are some prophecy about some figure able to be matched to the character being "theorized" or wished to fulfill

- even something as trivial as cover page or other page can be linked as symbolism or hint to some future deed that character will do

---

Doesnt mean the author think the same or those predictions must come true. ZKK fanbase has dozens of hardcore supporters blindly defending the prediction like their life depend on it, and continuously bullying or trolling anyone disagreeing for months or years even. Some really cult-like behavior. That fanbase hardcore behavior is really why it's satisfying for others to see ZKK not coming true.

 

[Fn Lucci]

It was a plausible theory with two great, glaring flaws:

- it was totally obvious that the first Emperor to fall could not, under any circumstances, fall by the hand of another mugy than Luffy;

- aside from edgy phrases and third-tier character, the mugy are "good": They don't kill people and much less they do it while being glorified in a double page.
The better it could happen is that a character dies as an indirect consequence of being beaten, like maybe Kaido or BM did.

So ZKK was always wishful thinking at best.

1. Most people assumed Luffy would win the fight but lose the battle: same happened at Baratie and Thriller Bark. Not only did Luffy punch out the "strongest creature" and having him fall his death seem out there (literally no one predicted Kaido's death from fighting Luffy as a result) but having two emperors die in a fight where they were up 6:1 in numbers really cheapened the status.

2. Being killed indirectly is still being killed. Worse because Kaido's hobby was suicide. All he had to do apparently was jump into lava, that's dumb.

 

[Dragon777]

The best it could happen would have been Zoro hurting badly Dragon Kaido, as Oden did, and then Luffy finishing it.

And I believe in that, but even the Enma-Monster Samurai plot wasn't closed.

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2023

1. Most people assumed Luffy would win the fight but lose the battle: same happened at Baratie and Thriller Bark. Not only did Luffy punch out the "strongest creature" and having him fall his death seem out there (literally no one predicted Kaido's death from fighting Luffy as a result) but having two emperors die in a fight where they were up 6:1 in numbers really cheapened the status.

2. Being killed indirectly is still being killed. Worse because Kaido's hobby was suicide. All he had to do was jump into lava, that's dumb.

1. That would have been losing, exactly like Kaido lost to Luffy even if he KOed him tree times previously.
And like I said, everyone not blinded by fanboyism knew that the first Emperor to fall (but I could could say the first top tier even) would fall by Luffy's hand and no other;

2. Still Luffy did not kill him and was not "glorified" for the killing per se.
Mugy are "good", they don't kill directly (or intentionally) and much less they do it on a double spread.

Tbh, we have always known Kaido's suicide dream was all talk. If he wanted to die, he could've just come to New Marineford alone and someone would have granted his wish. Or could have fought Mihawk or Shanks to fight and then letting them hit him with their strongest move, and so on.
Kaiso had always plenty of ways to die, if he wanted.

 

[Hanners220]

Crafting theories based off of the information presented is what makes following a long term series fun.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

In any other series it would have been a fine theory. Zoro slicing a dragon in front of the capital to parallel Sword God Ryuma? Sure.
But this is the Luffy’s show.
I think the problems people have with ZKK is how agressive and arrogants some of the believers. Ridiculing anyone who didn’t believe it was happening.

You got called a fake Zoro fan if you didn't believe it

Shit was wild!

 

[RoronoaZorro]

I'm not claiming that ZKK was right, just that there was a well founded case to be made.

It's the same with Wano Yamato too. It checks out all nakama requirements & have a solid case coming to fruition. But it didn't.

So the root problem is either Oda giving out too many hints, or we're being stupid for getting baited.

 

[AkainuTheGrimReaper]

Should happen in rooftop battle,when zoro kill kaido . The real ZKK. Wano end in 2021 and end smoothly.

 

[Aknolagon]

ZKK was wrong, but there were many plot threads pointing to it that Oda just abandoned in Wano.

It's not the case that there was no basis for ZKK:

1. A look at Inherited Will in the Land of Wano
   • An analysis of the Oden's will to slay Kaido and open Wano's borders, passed on to his Scabbards and to Roronoa Zoro through Enma.
2. The Second Advent
   • "Sword God" Shimotsuki Ryuma, Shimotsuki Zoro, and Dragon Slaying
3. Long Live ZKK
   • Reasons to still believe in ZKK after chapters 1010 - 1012.
4. Kaido Must Die
   • The narrative necessity of Kaido's death.
5. No, Zoro is NOT "Done" After Defeating King
   • Zoro still has more to accomplish in the Wano arc in order to bring his character arc to a truly satisfying conclusion.

There's a reason many Zoro fans considered Oda's handling of Zoro's character a disappointment. Powerscaling and the ZKK agenda aside, Oda just abandoned many of the threads he set up involving Zoro:

• The second coming of Ryuma/Ryuma parallels in general
  • The comments that perhaps the legend of Ryuma slaying a dragon might be replicated
• Kaido's statement that there would never be a monstrous samurai of the likes of Kozuki Oden again
• Zoro saying he would round up the samurai
• Zoro wanting to visit Ryuma's grave
  • The plot with Shusui in general, Ryuma said it was that sword's will that Zoro wield it, and then Oda just had it replaced and never gave Zoro any closure
• Zoro's interest in the Nidai Kitetsu
• Zoro's lineage
• Zoro seeing the Grim Reaper/death
• Zoro getting recognised as a hero
• Etc.

I do not regret my ZKK threads. Given the evidence available at the time, there was a strong case to be made and I'm okay with having made it.

I don't really have much investment in Zoro's character anymore. Oda really just didn't follow through on Zoro's character in Wano.





Like Yamato vs Nakama was another theory that had a very strong basis but which Oda didn't execute on:

1. Some Thoughts on Yamato 4 Nakama
2. Against Nakama Purity Tests

I advocated for both theories and I don't regret it.

They weren't baseless or unfounded or sheer wishful thinking.

Insomuch as theorising has any basis at all, ZKK and Yamato 4 Nakama were some of the more well founded theories.

It wasn't baseless or wrong since for Oda it happened.
Ryuma's story gonna be adapted in anime with the exact title as King vs Zoro climax. Talk about coincidence.

Oda just removed Zoro killing Kaido because Luffy would be outshined and the disaster movie "Red".
Instead he made a dragon in magma who looks exactly like Kaido with King's ultimate.
Laziness at its peak ....

Let the haters bark, they can't even understand a panel, so imagine this!

 

[zzShinichi]

I have no regret believing in ZKK. It's still a plausible theory and should stay at that, a theory. And it was also a great 2 years of fun defending it.
The main problem is it turns into a cult, which gains its notoriety and ridicules. Couldn't help that Zoro fanbase was arguable the most toxic fanbase of all so yeah it's obvious people in return would bash it
Honestly ZKK was the main thing I became a Zoro fan anyways, I read about it during early Wano and thought to myself: oh shit it made sense, then I found out that the majority of the fanbase mocked it, so I want to prove them wrong
Will never emotionally invest in any theory in that kind of scope again

 

[Fujishiro]

It wasn't baseless or wrong since for Oda it happened.
Ryuma's story gonna be adapted in anime with the exact title as King vs Zoro climax. Talk about coincidence.

Oda just removed Zoro killing Kaido because Luffy would be outshined and the disaster movie "Red".
Instead he made a dragon in magma who looks exactly like Kaido with King's ultimate.
Laziness at its peak ....

Let the haters bark, they can't even understand a panel, so imagine this!

There is a lot of cope within this post. The King thing was a compensation prize because ZKK was never going to happen.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

I have no regret believing in ZKK. It's still a plausible theory and should stay at that, a theory. And it was also a great 2 years of fun defending it.
The main problem is it turns into a cult, which gains its notoriety and ridicules.

Yep. Hit it right on the nail! ZKK was some actual cultist bs.
Was a really cool theory at first, but then spiraled into a religion around the time Worstgen came to be.
I'll never forget when HA0 ran away with his tail behind his butt when it didn't happen.

 

[zzShinichi]

There is a lot of cope within this post. The King thing was a compensation prize because ZKK was never going to happen.

Honestly I think Oda did drop the hints with the whole "slaying a dragon above the capital like Ryuma" shit, it's just it's the wrong Dragon

 

[Fujishiro]

Honestly I think Oda did drop the hints with the whole "slaying a dragon above the capital like Ryuma" shit, it's just it's the wrong Dragon

To me it felt like Oda giving the fans their Zoro killing a dragon moment without actually doing it. It wouldve been redundant to have that moment and then an actual dragon killing moment like minutes later.

 

[Fn Lucci]

The best it could happen would have been Zoro hurting badly Dragon Kaido, as Oden did, and then Luffy finishing it.

And I believe in that, but even the Enma-Monster Samurai plot wasn't closed.

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2023

1. That would have been losing, exactly like Kaido lost to Luffy even if he KOed him tree times previously.
And like I said, everyone not blinded by fanboyism knew that the first Emperor to fall (but I could could say the first top tier even) would fall by Luffy's hand and no other;

2. Still Luffy did not kill him and was not "glorified" for the killing per se.
Mugy are "good", they don't kill directly (or intentionally) and much less they do it on a double spread.

Tbh, we have always known Kaido's suicide dream was all talk. If he wanted to die, he could've just come to New Marineford alone and someone would have granted his wish. Or could have fought Mihawk or Shanks to fight and then letting them hit him with their strongest move, and so on.
Kaiso had always plenty of ways to die, if he wanted.

1. Not sure what you mean, "that" is used vaguely.



2. His reputation soared; this story revolves around the ground level belief that pirates are the bad guys, as he's said and as the Marines just recently confirmed about him. So the technicality is only for the reader, and in our world that would count as murder.

Will never emotionally invest in any theory in that kind of scope again

At least you were able to, instead of sticking to some fucking boring shonen kun convention. I mean it's ironic considering that Luffy believes he could very well wrong about OP and said he'd give up being a pirate not if it was untrue but if he lost out on the journey. And here are his fans shitting on people for believing in something they found interesting, lol

 

[vikas]

We know it was abandoned because ziro did not meet Ryuumas grave too

 

[Fujishiro]

1. Not sure what you mean, "that" is used vaguely.



2. His reputation soared; this story revolves around the ground level belief that pirates are the bad guys, as he's said and as the Marines just recently confirmed about him. So the technicality is only for the reader, and in our world that would count as murder.



At least you were able to, instead of sticking to some fucking boring shonen kun convention. I mean it's ironic considering that Luffy believes he could very well wrong about OP and said he'd give up being a pirate not if it was untrue but if he lost out on the journey. And here are his fans shitting on people for believing in something they found interesting, lol

I think most people shitting on ZKK fans are doing because of the overt toxicity and cult like behaviour that was happening at its height.

 

[Fn Lucci]

I think most people shitting on ZKK fans are doing because of the overt toxicity and cult like behaviour that was happening at its height.

In a story where the main character goes around beating the shit out of people for telling him he's wrong for something he thinks he indeed may be wrong about. Luffy, the toxic Roger fan lol

But anyway, being a baby with a bad rash in response to babies with bad rashes is the shitty dynamic of the internet in general. I think it's sometimes kinda lame but I appreciate those who talked shit back in good fun