Break Week ZKK Wasn't a "Baseless" or "Delusional" Theory

[Cinera]

ZKK was wrong, but there were many plot threads pointing to it that Oda just abandoned in Wano.

It's not the case that there was no basis for ZKK:

1. A look at Inherited Will in the Land of Wano
   • An analysis of the Oden's will to slay Kaido and open Wano's borders, passed on to his Scabbards and to Roronoa Zoro through Enma.
2. The Second Advent
   • "Sword God" Shimotsuki Ryuma, Shimotsuki Zoro, and Dragon Slaying
3. Long Live ZKK
   • Reasons to still believe in ZKK after chapters 1010 - 1012.
4. Kaido Must Die
   • The narrative necessity of Kaido's death.
5. No, Zoro is NOT "Done" After Defeating King
   • Zoro still has more to accomplish in the Wano arc in order to bring his character arc to a truly satisfying conclusion.

There's a reason many Zoro fans considered Oda's handling of Zoro's character a disappointment. Powerscaling and the ZKK agenda aside, Oda just abandoned many of the threads he set up involving Zoro:

• The second coming of Ryuma/Ryuma parallels in general
  • The comments that perhaps the legend of Ryuma slaying a dragon might be replicated
• Kaido's statement that there would never be a monstrous samurai of the likes of Kozuki Oden again
• Zoro saying he would round up the samurai
• Zoro wanting to visit Ryuma's grave
  • The plot with Shusui in general, Ryuma said it was that sword's will that Zoro wield it, and then Oda just had it replaced and never gave Zoro any closure
• Zoro's interest in the Nidai Kitetsu
• Zoro's lineage
• Zoro seeing the Grim Reaper/death
• Zoro getting recognised as a hero
• Etc.

I do not regret my ZKK threads. Given the evidence available at the time, there was a strong case to be made and I'm okay with having made it.

I don't really have much investment in Zoro's character anymore. Oda really just didn't follow through on Zoro's character in Wano.





Like Yamato vs Nakama was another theory that had a very strong basis but which Oda didn't execute on:

1. Some Thoughts on Yamato 4 Nakama
2. Against Nakama Purity Tests

I advocated for both theories and I don't regret it.

They weren't baseless or unfounded or sheer wishful thinking.

Insomuch as theorising has any basis at all, ZKK and Yamato 4 Nakama were some of the more well founded theories.

 

[JoNdule]

In short:

• It was delusional
• And wishful

Anyone who understands OP knew that Oda wasn't gonna have zoro kill kaido or save wano
So whatever you guys believed was indeed delusional and Wishful

This isn't the first time you guys believed stuff by using cover pages and forced parallelism to push a battle/pilot forward

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Tbh ZKK was a dumb theory, Oda would never let Zoro shine brighter than Luffy. Luffy is the captain, he gets to beat the strongest enemy, simple. I warned you people many times, you never listen =>

I will be very disappointed in Luffy.

Everyone in the crew has a role to play. Zoro was willing to die to save Luffy's dream even though he has such a great ambition. Zoro begged to Mihawk, the guy he wants to beat, for Luffy's sake. It doesnt make any sense that the first yonko Luffy is aiming to beat is killed by Zoro! In that case, the most disappointed person will be Zoro himself.

Some of you Zoro fans here probably forgot the hierarchy of the crew, but Zoro understands this better than anybody from the strawhats, even more than Luffy:

Spoiler

He knows Luffy outranks him and he is always be happy to settle for the 2nd best and theres no shame in that

Spoiler

He has high expectations of Luffy.

Spoiler

Remember, his loyalty towards Luffy, his trust, expectations and admirations towards his captain makes him so great. Zoro shines brightest in moments like "nothing happened" when he abandoned his ambition and life to save Luffy.

Sometimes I doubt whether these new generation of Zoro fans actually understands his character. Saying more ridiculous stuff about Zoro doesnt make you a bigger Zoro fan, it makes you an annoying dumbass. And such actions only generate more hate towards Zoro.

To sum up:

 

[zorovsanji]

If Zoro didn't become yonko level, then it has no basis but he is now. He achieved odens feat with just acoa. Same Oden that was in kaidos top 5.

 

[Cinera]

Tbh ZKK was a dumb theory, Oda would never let Zoro shine brighter than Luffy. I warned you people many times, you never listen =>

ZKK was wrong, I'm reacting mostly to the comparisons of ZKK to baseless theories like Shanks killing Sakazuki or similar.

I'm not claiming that ZKK was right, just that there was a well founded case to be made.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Tbh ZKK was a dumb theory, Oda would never let Zoro shine brighter than Luffy. Luffy is the captain, he gets to beat the strongest enemy. I warned you people many times, you never listen =>

Thrillerbark

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

ZKK was wrong, I'm reacting mostly to the comparisons of ZKK to baseless theories like Shanks killing Sakazuki or similar.

Thats true. Shanks killing Sakazuki is so absurd lmao. You could at least claim Kaido wished to see another monster samurai like Oden and Zoro's clone Ryuma did slay a dragon.

Thrillerbark

When did Zoro beat the main enemy in Thrillerbark?

You could at least use Captain Morgan in the first arc lol

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Thats true. Shanks killing Sakazuki is so absurd lmao. You could at least claim Kaido wished to see another monster samurai like Oden and Zoro's clone Ryuma did slay a dragon.


When did Zoro beat the main enemy in Thrillerbark?

You could at least use Captain Morgan in the first arc lol

You said wouldn't shine more than luffy. You didn't say anything about beating main enemy. Zoro beat Morgans and Hody if that what your saying.

 

[DarkWitch]

It was a dumb and delusional theory, I get you love Zoro and all but this is nothing but cope.

ZKK didn't happen, and now you along with some other Zoro fans are trying to find excuses for it not happening.

ZKK not happening wasn't Oda's fault, it was you and other ZKK believers fault for believing too much into that dumb theory.

And instead of just accepting that you guys were wrong, you and others are instead just coping and making excuses and blaming Oda for that theory not coming true.

Also Oda will never outshine Luffy in such a big way especially having Zoro just randomly defeat and kill Kaido.

Thrillerbark

Not the same, Zoro defeating and killing Kaido would have been a huge moment and it would have outshine Luffy completely.

There is a difference between Zoro taking damage and Zoro defeating and killing a Yonko who was also the main villain of the Wano arc.

 

[Malio]

ZKK was not wrong, it was only moved down on the timeline. It will happen when Waido comes back

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

In any other series it would have been a fine theory. Zoro slicing a dragon in front of the capital to parallel Sword God Ryuma? Sure.
But this is the Luffy’s show.
I think the problems people have with ZKK is how agressive and arrogants some of the believers. Ridiculing anyone who didn’t believe it was happening.

 

[GUI VI]

would have been amazing.

 

[Paperchampion23]

In any other series it would have been a fine theory. Zoro slicing a dragon in front of the capital to parallel Sword God Ryuma? Sure.
But this is the Luffy’s show.
I think the problems people have with ZKK is how agressive and arrogants some of the believers. Ridiculing anyone who didn’t believe it was happening.

Yerrrrp. I found the theory fascinating, but the moment you made the argument that "hey, maybe Luffy becomes the Yonko because its his story" you immediately got flamed for it

 

[Ryuarashi]

No, it was infact a dumb and delusional theory. Throughout Wano ZKKers developed a coping mechanism by moving the goalposts each time they were proven wrong.

First iteration of ZKK

- Zoro will 1 vs 1 and Kill on the rooftop instead of the MC

Second iteration of ZKK

- Zoro will 1 shot King then go back to the roof 1 vs 1 and kill Kaido

Third iteration of ZKK

- Zoro will kill Kaido above the flower capital after Luffy loses consciousness.

Fourth iteraction of ZKK

- Zoro will kill Kaido after he emerges from the volcano

Aside from the fact that Luffy always takes out the main antongist of each arc, ZKK completely ignores the established connection between Momo (Arc Princess) and Kinemon who directly called upon Luffy directly to free Wano citizens...

 

[ZenZu]

ZKK was wrong, I'm reacting mostly to the comparisons of ZKK to baseless theories like Shanks killing Sakazuki or similar.

I'm not claiming that ZKK was right, just that there was a well founded case to be made.

Bro who tf is saying Shanks Kills Akainu lmao?

You're comparing a theory which 95% of a character's fanbase was treating like gospel, to something one user on worstgen said lmfao.

I agree ZKK made all the sense in the world, IF you ignore who is writing this manga. It was never going to happen knowing Oda, it's as simple as that.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Bro who tf is saying Shanks Kills Akainu lmao?

You're comparing a theory which 95% of a character's fanbase was treating like gospel, to something one user on worstgen said lmfao.

I agree ZKK made all the sense in the world, IF you ignore who is writing this manga. It was never going to happen knowing Oda, it's as simple as that.

In the end, it all worked out. Cinera stopped wasting time writing long essays and focused on his studies lmao

Yerrrrp. I found the theory fascinating, but the moment you made the argument that "hey, maybe Luffy becomes the Yonko because its his story" you immediately got flamed for it

I think the problems people have with ZKK is how agressive and arrogants some of the believers. Ridiculing anyone who didn’t believe it was happening.

That was prime Cinera, he had his very own crew of devoted followers lmao. Boy his threads were really popular those days

 

[Fujishiro]

ZKK was wrong, but there were many plot threads pointing to it that Oda just abandoned in Wano.

It's not the case that there was no basis for ZKK:

1. A look at Inherited Will in the Land of Wano
   • An analysis of the Oden's will to slay Kaido and open Wano's borders, passed on to his Scabbards and to Roronoa Zoro through Enma.
2. The Second Advent
   • "Sword God" Shimotsuki Ryuma, Shimotsuki Zoro, and Dragon Slaying
3. Long Live ZKK
   • Reasons to still believe in ZKK after chapters 1010 - 1012.
4. Kaido Must Die
   • The narrative necessity of Kaido's death.
5. No, Zoro is NOT "Done" After Defeating King
   • Zoro still has more to accomplish in the Wano arc in order to bring his character arc to a truly satisfying conclusion.

There's a reason many Zoro fans considered Oda's handling of Zoro's character a disappointment. Powerscaling and the ZKK agenda aside, Oda just abandoned many of the threads he set up involving Zoro:

• The second coming of Ryuma/Ryuma parallels in general
  • The comments that perhaps the legend of Ryuma slaying a dragon might be replicated
• Kaido's statement that there would never be a monstrous samurai of the likes of Kozuki Oden again
• Zoro saying he would round up the samurai
• Zoro wanting to visit Ryuma's grave
  • The plot with Shusui in general, Ryuma said it was that sword's will that Zoro wield it, and then Oda just had it replaced and never gave Zoro any closure
• Zoro's interest in the Nidai Kitetsu
• Zoro's lineage
• Zoro seeing the Grim Reaper/death
• Zoro getting recognised as a hero
• Etc.

I do not regret my ZKK threads. Given the evidence available at the time, there was a strong case to be made and I'm okay with having made it.

I don't really have much investment in Zoro's character anymore. Oda really just didn't follow through on Zoro's character in Wano.





Like Yamato vs Nakama was another theory that had a very strong basis but which Oda didn't execute on:

1. Some Thoughts on Yamato 4 Nakama
2. Against Nakama Purity Tests

I advocated for both theories and I don't regret it.

They weren't baseless or unfounded or sheer wishful thinking.

Insomuch as theorising has any basis at all, ZKK and Yamato 4 Nakama were some of the more well founded theories.

I think Wano was a wake up call for many, Oda rushed many plot lines and characters for no reason. Oda has shown that he doesnt really care too much about anyone not named Luffy ( Or Shanks).

 

[CensoredbyWG]

In short:

• It was delusional
• And wishful

Anyone who understands OP knew that Oda wasn't gonna have zoro kill kaido or save wano
So whatever you guys believed was indeed delusional and Wishful

This isn't the first time you guys believed stuff by using cover pages and forced parallelism to push a battle/pilot forward

Also, current generation ryuma: luffy, LUFFY IS THE MAIN CHARACTER.

 

[GUI VI]

Oda has shown that he doesnt really care too much about anyone not named Luff ( Or Shanks).

Dude creates a fucking World Building with thousands of characters and then doesn't give a fuck to them

 

[Strawhats Bible]

In any other series it would have been a fine theory. Zoro slicing a dragon in front of the capital to parallel Sword God Ryuma? Sure.
But this is the Luffy’s show.
I think the problems people have with ZKK is how agressive and arrogants some of the believers. Ridiculing anyone who didn’t believe it was happening.

HA001 would insult you non stop if you called this theory to wrong lmao


Only to go mia when the delusional theory didn't come to fruition.
All in all it was a ridiculous delusional theory.