General & Others The Great Debate - Will Luffy Solo Kaido this Arc?
- Thread starter Monkey D. Luffy
- Start date
C
Fight with Oden was three years after Here Kaido has his crew with him in order to stop Moriah. Kaido was a goddamn rookie when he fought Oden who got one-shotted. He fought Kaido in the flashback that had him parade naked for five years, that was #RookieKaido who is now far surpassed by Prime Kaido
Fight with Oden was three years after Here Kaido has his crew with him in order to stop Moriah. Kaido was a goddamn rookie when he fought Oden who got one-shotted. He fought Kaido in the flashback that had him parade naked for five years, that was #RookieKaido who is now far surpassed by Prime Kaido
It amazes me that people in the year 2020 still think OP works on power levels. "Oh if he beats Kaido then that's it for the series."
1. Luffy was beaten by an enemy he was already strong enough to crush at PH and before that received a life threatening wound from the scrub Hody. Just recently another underling was lighting him up
2. Doflamingo was able to overcome the strength gap by being smarter
3. Kaido will be the last major opponent to underestimate Luffy. Shanks, Teach, and Akainu all have completely different power sets and already do not overlook him
1. Luffy was beaten by an enemy he was already strong enough to crush at PH and before that received a life threatening wound from the scrub Hody. Just recently another underling was lighting him up
2. Doflamingo was able to overcome the strength gap by being smarter
3. Kaido will be the last major opponent to underestimate Luffy. Shanks, Teach, and Akainu all have completely different power sets and already do not overlook him
I agree partially with this sentiment but I think it's pretty clear Luffy isn't soloing this Yonko. Many other characters seem to be poised to get their lick in here and there. If anything, the battle will be "Oars-like" with a group of people taking him on. Then it may transition into something "Doflamingo-like" where Luffy and one other character (Kid/Marco?) fight him on their own, after which Luffy has a full length battle with the man.
That to me is an easier way to digest Kaido being taken out on his own. The problem is not Luffy taking out a Yonko solo, it's taking out the Worlds Strongest Creature whom apparently doesn't lose 1v1's. THIS WILL make it harder to understand how Akainu or BB or Shanks will continue to pose as threats imo.
That to me is an easier way to digest Kaido being taken out on his own. The problem is not Luffy taking out a Yonko solo, it's taking out the Worlds Strongest Creature whom apparently doesn't lose 1v1's. THIS WILL make it harder to understand how Akainu or BB or Shanks will continue to pose as threats imo.
What I’m saying is that croc has df mastery but was never physically stronger than luffy. Here we have someone whos overwhelmingly stronger than luffy at his forte. Physicals.
And yeah kat was more or less a bit better than luffy but luffy was still stronger than him physically when in g4 or equal. That’s what I mean. Kaido didn’t do no tricks or nothing. Just very casually negg diffed him by pure physical might. That’s not something you overcome in a few days.
Like what happens if kaido decides to block? Or guard himself with haki? Or actually be a moving target instead of the sitting duck he was during their first fight.
You lack reading comprehension, first of all he never knew the hag was there nor wanted her help.
Second of all, he got severely wounded in dragon form, that same form g3 luffy was knocking around. He was fine fighting off oden in the castle in human form. Yes it was his fault for being arrogant and yes if the 1vs1 started after he received that wound then he would be at a severe disadvantage
3rd if all, you assume his hype was gotten before meeting oden and not after during the 20 years span where oden told him to get stronger.
Basically you are judging things with only bits and piece of info. So why not wait and see?
I’m thinking about taking a break too. A long one at that.
Who called him invincible? Oh right his goons. Yet in his intro, everyone called him that. Heck the marines and yonko tried to kill him. There is a clear difference between 20 years ago kaido to current one just based of what I said.
And yeah kat was more or less a bit better than luffy but luffy was still stronger than him physically when in g4 or equal. That’s what I mean. Kaido didn’t do no tricks or nothing. Just very casually negg diffed him by pure physical might. That’s not something you overcome in a few days.
Like what happens if kaido decides to block? Or guard himself with haki? Or actually be a moving target instead of the sitting duck he was during their first fight.
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You lack reading comprehension, first of all he never knew the hag was there nor wanted her help.
Second of all, he got severely wounded in dragon form, that same form g3 luffy was knocking around. He was fine fighting off oden in the castle in human form. Yes it was his fault for being arrogant and yes if the 1vs1 started after he received that wound then he would be at a severe disadvantage
3rd if all, you assume his hype was gotten before meeting oden and not after during the 20 years span where oden told him to get stronger.
Basically you are judging things with only bits and piece of info. So why not wait and see?
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I’m thinking about taking a break too. A long one at that.
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Who called him invincible? Oh right his goons. Yet in his intro, everyone called him that. Heck the marines and yonko tried to kill him. There is a clear difference between 20 years ago kaido to current one just based of what I said.
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Luffy by default will have to do something that no one has done before unless we assume that he will lose and give up here. Even if ten people wear down Kaido for the money shot, Luffy will still end up achieving greater success against Kaido than anyone else in over twenty years. Which is consistent for his character goals and accomplishments
- the only waver in Big Mom's rep in decades
- the first to beat Katakuri
- solve the puzzle of hurting Kaido
- find One Piece and Raftel
He's pretty far down already if we look at a checklist like that. So how do the upcoming bosses still appear threatening? By being smart and not letting Luffy off the hook at the very least. Big Mom chained Luffy up and left, Katakuri cut himself to even the score, Kaido had his men carry Luffy off to prison... as soon as someone high level says "screw this guy, I won't allow him to go further" they'll be the toughest boss thus far.
well for one thing Kaido is extremely arrogant, and to an extent rightfully so. But his arrogance has already created an opportunity that shouldn't exist if we go by sheer power.
not that Luffy is looking to exceed him in sheer power. Hyo explicitly mentioned that. The point of Advanced Haki is to bypass the massive physical disadvantage, offensively by targeting his insides and defensively by precogging his attacks. Luffy will obviously have a lot of help here and probably still lose the initial fight to come back a little later, but he'll come away with the ability to beat a Kaido level opponent going forward, so it's not like it would be a problem for the overall plot if he performs better than we're expecting.
I still don't believe anyone would quit the series for all the bitching, but I'll personally lose some interest if the story plays out just to my predictions either way
- the only waver in Big Mom's rep in decades
- the first to beat Katakuri
- solve the puzzle of hurting Kaido
- find One Piece and Raftel
He's pretty far down already if we look at a checklist like that. So how do the upcoming bosses still appear threatening? By being smart and not letting Luffy off the hook at the very least. Big Mom chained Luffy up and left, Katakuri cut himself to even the score, Kaido had his men carry Luffy off to prison... as soon as someone high level says "screw this guy, I won't allow him to go further" they'll be the toughest boss thus far.
well for one thing Kaido is extremely arrogant, and to an extent rightfully so. But his arrogance has already created an opportunity that shouldn't exist if we go by sheer power.
not that Luffy is looking to exceed him in sheer power. Hyo explicitly mentioned that. The point of Advanced Haki is to bypass the massive physical disadvantage, offensively by targeting his insides and defensively by precogging his attacks. Luffy will obviously have a lot of help here and probably still lose the initial fight to come back a little later, but he'll come away with the ability to beat a Kaido level opponent going forward, so it's not like it would be a problem for the overall plot if he performs better than we're expecting.
I still don't believe anyone would quit the series for all the bitching, but I'll personally lose some interest if the story plays out just to my predictions either way
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I prefer Luffy conserving his energy almost completely before the Kaidou fight. Then has a threeway fight against BM and Kaidou, where they weaken each other significantly, BM goes to kill Kaidou since he's a bigger threat, weakening WSC even more, before BM is dead by Kaidou and Luffy vs Kaidou becomes pure 1 vs 1 where Luffy defeat him. Not too plot armorish imo.
I'm pretty sure a clean King Kong Gun to the back of Oden's head would have knocked him out. I also think a clean King Kong Gun to Luffy's head would knock him out. And that was without advanced CoA... Luffy probably even has King Kong Gatling Gun with ACoA right now...
I think even Moriah back then had better offence than Kaido, but Kaido's defence was better. Moriah could casually split an island with 1 base punch with no Haki.
Oda made it clear Kaido's defence > Kaido's offence when he said, "no one can kill him. not even himself"
I think even Moriah back then had better offence than Kaido, but Kaido's defence was better. Moriah could casually split an island with 1 base punch with no Haki.
Oda made it clear Kaido's defence > Kaido's offence when he said, "no one can kill him. not even himself"
Luffy is not going to solo Kaido. Zoro has been setup to slay an Eastern Dragon in Wano and forge a legend as the second Ryuma:
Zoro probably wouldn't deal the final blow on Kaido, but he's very likely to at least give him a grievous scar.
Luffy, Zoro and Kidd would probably fight Kaido. Law and Killer may join in as well. I expect Luffy to land the final blow, but when Zoro gets his dragon slaying moment, he's going to fuck up Kaido really bad, and that would automatically discount Luffy from getting a clean 1 vs 1 victory over Kaido.
Disclaimers
I tag a lot of people for my posts, but some of you may not appreciate them. If you were tagged for this post and would rather not be tagged in my future essays, please inform me and I'll remove you from my tag list(s). If you were not tagged for this post and would like to be tagged for my future posts please inform me.
Acknowledgements
Most of the evidence in this post were first identified by others. My only contribution is to collate them into one post and aggressively signal boost it. In particular, I am aware that I've drawn on the work of @Fiji, @KiriNigiri and @Xdrake in writing this post.
@Zenos7 has my eternal gratitude for his assistance in the panels
Introduction
Many people seem to think that Zoro will participate in the fight against Kaido in some signifcant capacity. Upon reviewing the evidence, it is clear that they are almost certainly wrong, and I wanted to cover a few reasons why.
Reasons Zoro Will Not Fight Kaido
Conclusion
No matter how I look at it, there are several reasons that suggest that Zoro would most definitely not play any significant role in the battle with Kaido. My list of reasons above is non exhaustive, so if you identify any more reasons that Zoro will most definitely not fight Kaido, please inform me of them.
:cheers:
[/spoiler]
I tag a lot of people for my posts, but some of you may not appreciate them. If you were tagged for this post and would rather not be tagged in my future essays, please inform me and I'll remove you from my tag list(s). If you were not tagged for this post and would like to be tagged for my future posts please inform me.
Acknowledgements
Most of the evidence in this post were first identified by others. My only contribution is to collate them into one post and aggressively signal boost it. In particular, I am aware that I've drawn on the work of @Fiji, @KiriNigiri and @Xdrake in writing this post.
@Zenos7 has my eternal gratitude for his assistance in the panels
Introduction
Many people seem to think that Zoro will participate in the fight against Kaido in some signifcant capacity. Upon reviewing the evidence, it is clear that they are almost certainly wrong, and I wanted to cover a few reasons why.
Reasons Zoro Will Not Fight Kaido
Dragon Slaying
Enma
Ryuma
Oden
Yasuie
Tiger vs Dragon
Chapter 981
There is an article on dragons, from One Piece Magazine Volume 5:
Here is the relevant quote:
The article further provides a description of Eastern Dragons with a picture of Kaido:
If anything is going to come of this dragon slaying setup, then all instances point towards the Dragon being Kaido (as opposed to Orochi (a mythical serpent) or King (actually a dinosaur, but even if you consider him a Dragon, he's definitely not an Eastern one)).
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Here is the relevant quote:
The article further provides a description of Eastern Dragons with a picture of Kaido:
If anything is going to come of this dragon slaying setup, then all instances point towards the Dragon being Kaido (as opposed to Orochi (a mythical serpent) or King (actually a dinosaur, but even if you consider him a Dragon, he's definitely not an Eastern one)).
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Enma
Zoro received one of Oden's swords Enma. Enma is one of only two swords to give Kaido his only (and quite a grievous one at that) scar:
Despite two of Oden's swords being used to scar Kaido, only Enma received the hype of the feat. Furthermore, when Zoro receives Enma, there is an editor's note referencing "inherited will":
Inherited will is one of the major themes of One Piece as exemplified by this quote of Gol D. Roger:
What other will did Zoro inherit that to slay Kaido and open the borders of Wanokuni:
Kawamatsu even mentions that the swords of fallen combatants shall be picked up by their comrades to continue the battle in their stead:
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Despite two of Oden's swords being used to scar Kaido, only Enma received the hype of the feat. Furthermore, when Zoro receives Enma, there is an editor's note referencing "inherited will":
Inherited will is one of the major themes of One Piece as exemplified by this quote of Gol D. Roger:
What other will did Zoro inherit that to slay Kaido and open the borders of Wanokuni:
Kawamatsu even mentions that the swords of fallen combatants shall be picked up by their comrades to continue the battle in their stead:
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Ryuma
Shimotsuki Ryuma was known as the Sword God of Wano and valiantly defended the country against outsiders:
Zoro appears to be a Shimotsuki himself, from SBS Volume 96:
The previous Volume 92 SBS suggests that one of the descendants of the Shimotsuki settlers is someone we're all intimately familiar with. It seems likely that person is Zoro:
He bears quite the resemblance to Ryuma:
Both Zoro and Ryuma expressed the desire to become the World's Strongest Swordsman:
Both were blamed for crimes they did not commit. Zoro was blamed for a street murder and stealing Shusui:
Ryuma was blamed for summoning a dragon and called a murderer:
Ryuma is quite famous for slaying a Western Dragon:
Oda might be setting Zoro up as the second Ryuma. One Piece Magazine Volume 6 outright says: "It's been several hundreds of years since Ryuma's death. Perhaps a strong samurai who people can call the 'second Ryuma' has already been born.":
Given that Ryuma's most iconic legend is slaying a dragon over the capital, in order for Oda to credibly depict Zoro as the second Ryuma, Zoro would have to play a huge role in the defeat of the dragon tyrant terrorising the country. This is very synergistic with the One Piece Magazine Volume 5 mentioning that a new legend of slaying an Eastern Dragon will be born. Just as Ryuma had his own legend of slaying a Western Dragon:
So also might Zoro forge his own legend by slaying an Eastern Dragon and saving the country.
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Zoro appears to be a Shimotsuki himself, from SBS Volume 96:
The previous Volume 92 SBS suggests that one of the descendants of the Shimotsuki settlers is someone we're all intimately familiar with. It seems likely that person is Zoro:
He bears quite the resemblance to Ryuma:
Both Zoro and Ryuma expressed the desire to become the World's Strongest Swordsman:
Both were blamed for crimes they did not commit. Zoro was blamed for a street murder and stealing Shusui:
Ryuma was blamed for summoning a dragon and called a murderer:
Ryuma is quite famous for slaying a Western Dragon:
Oda might be setting Zoro up as the second Ryuma. One Piece Magazine Volume 6 outright says: "It's been several hundreds of years since Ryuma's death. Perhaps a strong samurai who people can call the 'second Ryuma' has already been born.":
Given that Ryuma's most iconic legend is slaying a dragon over the capital, in order for Oda to credibly depict Zoro as the second Ryuma, Zoro would have to play a huge role in the defeat of the dragon tyrant terrorising the country. This is very synergistic with the One Piece Magazine Volume 5 mentioning that a new legend of slaying an Eastern Dragon will be born. Just as Ryuma had his own legend of slaying a Western Dragon:
So also might Zoro forge his own legend by slaying an Eastern Dragon and saving the country.
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Oden
Synergistically with the Enma point, Oda has drawn many gratuitous parallels between Zoro and Oden:
This collage captures it quite well I think:
Zoro has been setup to surpass Oden by accomplishing what Oden was unable to do in blackening Enma:
He may further surpass Oden by accomplishing what Oden was unable to do in defeating Kaido.
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
- Toki and Hiyori
- Oden met the 26 years old Toki.
- Zoro met the 26 years old Hiyori.
- Oden rescued Toki and fainted.
- Zoro rescued Hiyori and fainted.
- Toki nursed Oden back to health.
- Hiyori nursed Zoro back to health.
- Toki cried in Oden's arm.
- Hiyori cried in Zoro's arm.
- Oden met the 26 years old Toki.
- Orochi
- Both of them were furious at Orochi.
- Orochi was frightened by them.
- Both of them used Nitoryu in an attempt to kill Orochi.
- Oden got stopped by the Bari Bari no Mi user.
- Zoro got stopped by Denjiro.
- Enma
- Both of them are the only ones to successfully tame Enma.
- Self sacrifice
- Oden boiled for his men.
- Zoro took Luffy's damage.
- Naivete
- Oden trusts a clearly evil guy Orochi with a ridiculous demand.
- Zoro trusts a clearly evil guy Helmeppo with a ridiculous demand.
- Kinemon
- Oden rescued Kinemon from the Mountain God.
- Zoro rescued Kinemon from the Punk Hazard Dragon.
- The Boar cutting scene is constructed similarly to the Punk Hazard scene down to even Kin'emon being stuck to the boar with only his legs dangling off of it.
- Oden rescued Kinemon from the Mountain God.
This collage captures it quite well I think:
Zoro has been setup to surpass Oden by accomplishing what Oden was unable to do in blackening Enma:
He may further surpass Oden by accomplishing what Oden was unable to do in defeating Kaido.
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Yasuie
Zoro quite clearly bonded with Yasuie:
After his death Zoro swore to avenge him:
This is despite Zoro rarely fighting for revenge:
At Yasuie's execution he mentioned that no one has been able to take Kaido's head. The speech bubbles were placed directly above Zoro's head:
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
:yasu:
After his death Zoro swore to avenge him:
This is despite Zoro rarely fighting for revenge:
At Yasuie's execution he mentioned that no one has been able to take Kaido's head. The speech bubbles were placed directly above Zoro's head:
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
:yasu:
Tiger vs Dragon
The theme of the tiger opposing the dragon is a very iconic in Eastern Mythology:
Kaido has been outright stated to be an Eastern Dragon:
He certainly resembles one:
Zoro has been depicted as a tiger on multiple occasions:
Oda has implemented the theme of the tiger vs the dragon in his cover pages:
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Kaido has been outright stated to be an Eastern Dragon:
He certainly resembles one:
Zoro has been depicted as a tiger on multiple occasions:
Oda has implemented the theme of the tiger vs the dragon in his cover pages:
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Chapter 981
In chapter 981, Zoro specifically mentioned that he was conserving his strength to fight Kaido:
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Conclusion
The conclusion from the above is inescapable; Zoro will not fight Kaido in any significant capacity.
Conclusion
No matter how I look at it, there are several reasons that suggest that Zoro would most definitely not play any significant role in the battle with Kaido. My list of reasons above is non exhaustive, so if you identify any more reasons that Zoro will most definitely not fight Kaido, please inform me of them.
:cheers:
[/spoiler]
Luffy, Zoro and Kidd would probably fight Kaido. Law and Killer may join in as well. I expect Luffy to land the final blow, but when Zoro gets his dragon slaying moment, he's going to fuck up Kaido really bad, and that would automatically discount Luffy from getting a clean 1 vs 1 victory over Kaido.
H
I'm pretty sure a clean King Kong Gun to the back of Oden's head would have knocked him out. I also think a clean King Kong Gun to Luffy's head would knock him out. And that was without advanced CoA... Luffy probably even has King Kong Gatling Gun with ACoA right now...
I think even Moriah back then had better offence than Kaido, but Kaido's defence was better. Moriah could casually split an island with 1 base punch with no Haki.
Oda made it clear Kaido's defence > Kaido's offence when he said, "no one can kill him. not even himself"
I think even Moriah back then had better offence than Kaido, but Kaido's defence was better. Moriah could casually split an island with 1 base punch with no Haki.
Oda made it clear Kaido's defence > Kaido's offence when he said, "no one can kill him. not even himself"