Riboku is an Absolute Menace - Qin’s Northern Zhao Campaign Review
- Thread starter Elder Lee Hung
- Start date
This war was
Riboku + 330k
VS
Kanki + Ousen + Shoheikun + 400k
Attacking the North was Ousen's plan, setting the right variables for the North campaign was SHK's job and Kanki+Ousen fought on the field
Riboku stopped them from getting Gi'An, killed Kanki, killed multiple commanders, and killed about 150k soldiers while losing 3 commanders and like 10-20k troops. This was a one-sided domination against two 6 GGs and SHK. I haven't seen this kind of outplay since Ousen vs Ordo lmao
Riboku + 330k
VS
Kanki + Ousen + Shoheikun + 400k
Attacking the North was Ousen's plan, setting the right variables for the North campaign was SHK's job and Kanki+Ousen fought on the field
Riboku stopped them from getting Gi'An, killed Kanki, killed multiple commanders, and killed about 150k soldiers while losing 3 commanders and like 10-20k troops. This was a one-sided domination against two 6 GGs and SHK. I haven't seen this kind of outplay since Ousen vs Ordo lmao
What’s even crazier is how the real Ri Boku had to pull this shit off under even more dire circumstances.
This is leaving out the huge numbers Ri Boku had to have for his encirclement and that he likely could’ve avoided losing Duke Kohaku, Jyou Ka Ryuu and Un Gen if he had just committed to immediately thoroughly exterminating Kan Ki when the ambush failed instead of trying to talk him into surrender.
It was a thorough ass-kicking Qin have not suffered in a loooong time (way worse than Bayou), but Hara had RBK make some unforced errors.
I also question the wisdom of holding back BNJ during Kan Ki’s escape but allowing Gaku Shou to throw his army right at the man that slew Hou Ken, among a dozen Zhao generals, and has been a consistent thorn since Bayou. Maybe he thought the numbers would’ve made it fine, but he should’ve at least told them to avoid engaging with Shin, Mou Ten and Kyou Kai directly. Had RBK done that, even if the HSA and GKA escaped, the Seika commanders could’ve helped BNJ in stopping Kan Ki’s escape and secured their victory then and there.
This is leaving out the huge numbers Ri Boku had to have for his encirclement and that he likely could’ve avoided losing Duke Kohaku, Jyou Ka Ryuu and Un Gen if he had just committed to immediately thoroughly exterminating Kan Ki when the ambush failed instead of trying to talk him into surrender.
It was a thorough ass-kicking Qin have not suffered in a loooong time (way worse than Bayou), but Hara had RBK make some unforced errors.
I also question the wisdom of holding back BNJ during Kan Ki’s escape but allowing Gaku Shou to throw his army right at the man that slew Hou Ken, among a dozen Zhao generals, and has been a consistent thorn since Bayou. Maybe he thought the numbers would’ve made it fine, but he should’ve at least told them to avoid engaging with Shin, Mou Ten and Kyou Kai directly. Had RBK done that, even if the HSA and GKA escaped, the Seika commanders could’ve helped BNJ in stopping Kan Ki’s escape and secured their victory then and there.
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The strongest general in history failed against civilians of sai.
(The fact that he failed to take Sai when he had no other generals to help him shows how incompetent he is as a general, and the fact that all he could do is run away from yotanwa and couldn't plan any sort of counter is even worse especially when other generals managed to turn around situatios much worse than Riboku's situation).
The strongest general in history got 90% of his W's thanks to another 3GH, houken.(Gekishin, Ouki, Duke) and his only real W is against Kanki, but even though he had the absolute advantage and he couldn't have lost, with his huge numerical advantage, territorial advantage, and even the citizens were helping him, he actually nearly lost to kanki and he was straight up outclassed, and if it wasn't to plot armor he would've died by kanki's hands, so his only W he got without any other generals helping him, he got clowned and nearly got killed all that albeit his overwhelming advantage, kanki who lost was more impressive than Riboku.
The strongest general in history plans always seemed to fail and ends up being cornered by the enemy.
Gekishin saw through his plan, Duke saw through his plan, Kanki saw through his plan and all managed to counter it, and managed to reach Riboku's HQ, obviously he was either saved by houken or plot armor, his strategy worked only against ouki, but that's only due to fact Ouki doesn't even know he exists and Moubu's disobedience, and even with that ouki saw through his plan and knew there was another army and managed to predict everything riboku plotted but he just didn't know about the Bugatti horses Hara gifted for Zhao. So essentially his plans were seen through, but Moubu and the Bugatti horses made the plan somehow work for riboku.
But did Riboku see through the enemies plan?
Against Sai, he never considered they're awaiting for reinforcement and took his time so he got handed an L.
He's not even as impressive as ouki as he figured out another army must be lurking by even though he didn't know of Riboku's existence.
He failed to see through Kanki's plan and nearly got offed just barely saved by plot, Zenou who was only a few men away from him was suddenly forgotten by hara until kaine arrives and he was stopped by some arrows later on.. kanki instead of striking Riboku after he sliced his sword and head, he started talking about irrelevant shit and just wasting time, kaine having advCoO and FS all of a sudden etc..
He failed against Ousen aswell, he was always a tad bit late to realise Qin's real plan, which is why he lost southern Zhao.
So basically if You take away prep time from Riboku and with no houken to save him, he's not making the top 5 generals in kingdom and maybe even not top 10!
(The fact that he failed to take Sai when he had no other generals to help him shows how incompetent he is as a general, and the fact that all he could do is run away from yotanwa and couldn't plan any sort of counter is even worse especially when other generals managed to turn around situatios much worse than Riboku's situation).
The strongest general in history got 90% of his W's thanks to another 3GH, houken.(Gekishin, Ouki, Duke) and his only real W is against Kanki, but even though he had the absolute advantage and he couldn't have lost, with his huge numerical advantage, territorial advantage, and even the citizens were helping him, he actually nearly lost to kanki and he was straight up outclassed, and if it wasn't to plot armor he would've died by kanki's hands, so his only W he got without any other generals helping him, he got clowned and nearly got killed all that albeit his overwhelming advantage, kanki who lost was more impressive than Riboku.
The strongest general in history plans always seemed to fail and ends up being cornered by the enemy.
Gekishin saw through his plan, Duke saw through his plan, Kanki saw through his plan and all managed to counter it, and managed to reach Riboku's HQ, obviously he was either saved by houken or plot armor, his strategy worked only against ouki, but that's only due to fact Ouki doesn't even know he exists and Moubu's disobedience, and even with that ouki saw through his plan and knew there was another army and managed to predict everything riboku plotted but he just didn't know about the Bugatti horses Hara gifted for Zhao. So essentially his plans were seen through, but Moubu and the Bugatti horses made the plan somehow work for riboku.
But did Riboku see through the enemies plan?
Against Sai, he never considered they're awaiting for reinforcement and took his time so he got handed an L.
He's not even as impressive as ouki as he figured out another army must be lurking by even though he didn't know of Riboku's existence.
He failed to see through Kanki's plan and nearly got offed just barely saved by plot, Zenou who was only a few men away from him was suddenly forgotten by hara until kaine arrives and he was stopped by some arrows later on.. kanki instead of striking Riboku after he sliced his sword and head, he started talking about irrelevant shit and just wasting time, kaine having advCoO and FS all of a sudden etc..
He failed against Ousen aswell, he was always a tad bit late to realise Qin's real plan, which is why he lost southern Zhao.
So basically if You take away prep time from Riboku and with no houken to save him, he's not making the top 5 generals in kingdom and maybe even not top 10!
The failure of SHK begins and ends with the interception of the Tai Gen Army plan. Everything after that is on Kan Ki and Kan Ki alone exercising his privileges as a 6GG to get himself killed in Ri Boku's backyard.
Ri Boku did not destroy the 210K army, "only" 40K were killed - that's like less than 20% of reinforcements. In addition to the 90K he left Atsuyo with, Kan Ki had 170K soldiers on the board to play with. He could've marched to Tai Gen to muster the 120K that retreated, giving him 260K men to command, and then invaded Northern Zhao (since he was so intent on going), but he thought differently and died for it.
SHK's part in the failure of the Gian Campaign amounts to a relatively small blunder. Everything that happened after that blunder was Kan Ki's fault. Blaming SHK for actions Kan Ki took to shield the latter from the criticism is completely irrational.
Ri Boku did not destroy the 210K army, "only" 40K were killed - that's like less than 20% of reinforcements. In addition to the 90K he left Atsuyo with, Kan Ki had 170K soldiers on the board to play with. He could've marched to Tai Gen to muster the 120K that retreated, giving him 260K men to command, and then invaded Northern Zhao (since he was so intent on going), but he thought differently and died for it.
SHK's part in the failure of the Gian Campaign amounts to a relatively small blunder. Everything that happened after that blunder was Kan Ki's fault. Blaming SHK for actions Kan Ki took to shield the latter from the criticism is completely irrational.
I always laugh when people try so hard to hate on Riboku
Ouki had Moubu and Tou, Riboku had Houken... Idk bro, you tell me who had the better pawns (Ouki knowingly handed Moubu the whole army for a charge cause he had no other options lol, he is responsible for this decision. I know the famous defense). Not to mention the literal walking plot armor Shin (remind me when this has happened for another country again?) but whatever
Instincts are literal plot lmao. You can do what the fuck ever and call it instinct. But yes Duke did Corner Riboku
Sai, another Dues Ex Machina where the help arrives just as they are about to be breached (imagine the odds). And I doubt you need my help to understand civilians going that long without sleep and being able to fight a healthy army cause... phew
Gekishin... What was Gekishin gonna do, fight against Riboku and die either way? You can see in Riboku's face(the self proclaimed coward) that this wasn't an unexpected development. It was just another of Riboku's plan(imagine having more than 1 plan, pathetic). But yeah you need to be spoon fed I forgot
And Riboku was the one that had plot armor against Kanki???? Do you know how Riboku was caught in this situation???? Yeah I might as well not argue since the hate bonner you have for Riboku is so far down Kanki's ass that that's what Kanki was riding on in the war. The amount of bullshit that had to happen for Riboku to be caught there is insane
And as for Ousen... I don't wanna take away Ousen's legit W but since you do the same for Riboku I might as well
The literal walking plot armor Shin-kun and his underling Ouhon... going through awakening in their time of need...
Shin defeating not only the right army and Chougaryuu but also Houken (after days of starvation and taking a huge injury to the place where he shouldn't be able to put any strength in his swing anymore) in the same arc.........................................................................................................................
Ousen (the guy who never takes fights he isn't certain about) banking on a miracle to save him
He did outplay him in the locusts plan tho. At least he had the decency to admit he was worse in the field
And back to this recent war, Ousen was the one who cooked up the Northern invasion plan. He got outplayed hard
I will make a tally of all their big and small Ws and Ls one day.
Ouki had Moubu and Tou, Riboku had Houken... Idk bro, you tell me who had the better pawns (Ouki knowingly handed Moubu the whole army for a charge cause he had no other options lol, he is responsible for this decision. I know the famous defense). Not to mention the literal walking plot armor Shin (remind me when this has happened for another country again?) but whatever
Instincts are literal plot lmao. You can do what the fuck ever and call it instinct. But yes Duke did Corner Riboku
Sai, another Dues Ex Machina where the help arrives just as they are about to be breached (imagine the odds). And I doubt you need my help to understand civilians going that long without sleep and being able to fight a healthy army cause... phew
Gekishin... What was Gekishin gonna do, fight against Riboku and die either way? You can see in Riboku's face(the self proclaimed coward) that this wasn't an unexpected development. It was just another of Riboku's plan(imagine having more than 1 plan, pathetic). But yeah you need to be spoon fed I forgot
And Riboku was the one that had plot armor against Kanki???? Do you know how Riboku was caught in this situation???? Yeah I might as well not argue since the hate bonner you have for Riboku is so far down Kanki's ass that that's what Kanki was riding on in the war. The amount of bullshit that had to happen for Riboku to be caught there is insane
And as for Ousen... I don't wanna take away Ousen's legit W but since you do the same for Riboku I might as well
The literal walking plot armor Shin-kun and his underling Ouhon... going through awakening in their time of need...
Shin defeating not only the right army and Chougaryuu but also Houken (after days of starvation and taking a huge injury to the place where he shouldn't be able to put any strength in his swing anymore) in the same arc.........................................................................................................................
Ousen (the guy who never takes fights he isn't certain about) banking on a miracle to save him
He did outplay him in the locusts plan tho. At least he had the decency to admit he was worse in the field
And back to this recent war, Ousen was the one who cooked up the Northern invasion plan. He got outplayed hard
I will make a tally of all their big and small Ws and Ls one day.
Riboku cuck #1537 with excuses for Riboku... no surprises here
let's start by your false comparison.
Riboku and houken have the same rank as 3GH, Houken is not part of Riboku's personal army, while Tou is Ouki's vice general, he is part of his personal army.
Also, Ouki doesn't just plot a plan, fail so relies on Tou to save the day.. no he does the planning, doesn't fail and actually relies on his own strength in the battlefield when necessary to save his army. That's the big difference between the two.
Also, Moubo disobedience to Ouki's orders and his stupidity cost Qin that war, Ouki would never fall for Riboku's trap otherwise, infact he knew of the trap laid and even figured out where the hidden army of Riboku was, but hara had to give Bugatti horses for Riboku so they make it 1 sec before houken gets killed by ouki (him stopping is BS anyways), and if ouki had killed houken, Riboku has 0 chance of killing Ouki. I.e failed even though he had 2 armies, 2 members of the 3GH. All this shows how grand Ouki looked even though he lost that war.
Lol, Riboku "knows everything" is plot, Houken whole character is plot, lmao!
All that matters is you know Duke cornered Riboku and with no houken to save him, he would've been killed like a bitch.
Duke with a similar army to Riboku would absolutely decimate Riboku granted no outer interference.
No. Riboku wasted time because he didn't think of a possibility that reinforcement was coming, he was using a regular approach to siege the city, like he was Heki.
Atleast, Ouki thought of and knew that there was another Zhao army was coming.. Riboku didn't.
Also when the Mountain army showed up, all he did was escape, Other generals have managed to turn the sides with even more favourless situations, but Riboku couldn't do anything even though he's China's proclaimed no.1 general? Lol, joke thing blud.
This is all Headcanon,
If you're saying Riboku intended for his plan to fail and for his HQ to get attacked so Houken can come in to kill gekishin then prove it, otherwise its headcanon. If that was his plan hara would surely relay that to the readers, as he does with every single plan in the manga, but it's the opposite, Riboku was not expecting Gekishin to see through his plan, re-read the manga and stop feeding on Riboku's jizz.
If you're claiming Gekishin wouldn't have done shit anyways that's also BS. Gekishin had 15K elite troops while Riboku had 7 or 8K. Also, Gekishin troops were slaughtering the Zhao soldiers before Houken saves Riboku's ass.
All evidence point to Riboku was losing to Gekishin.. his plan failed, and his HQ was attacked by a greater force. But of course, Houken saves his ass as usual.
Again, when Riboku was clearly clowned, it's plot all of a sudden.
Riboku is the one at fault, he underestimated Kanki. He kept saying Kanki can't do shit, he don't know shit, he's sitting there waiting to be killed etc, but kanki played him and escaped from his encirclement, and after that Riboku was dancing on Kanki's palm all the way until he nearly got killed.
So even though he had the advantage on every scale possible, he still was clowned and nearly lost. Vast numerical advantage, territorial advantage, citizens were helping him by poisoning Qin's army at sekerei etc, with all that, Kanki outclassed Riboku tactically and Riboku got his head sliced and was saved only due to plot. Yes, plot armor. Zeno who was a few men away from Riboku suddenly gets forgotten by hara until reinforcement arrives, Kanki after slicing Riboku's head, starts having conversations instead of finishing him, Kaine having advCoO all of a sudden etc.
See, here is a case of Kanki turning an extremely hopeless fight upside down and nearly ended up victorious, even though he lost he still looked impressive more than Riboku who won.. this is what Riboku failed to do against Sai, he looked like shit and just ran away like a rat.
So Ousen outplayed Riboku tactically, good.
The rest is excuses and sounds of you slurping on Riboku's dick.
The worst plot here is how many generals Zhao keep popping out of nowhere..
let's start by your false comparison.
Riboku and houken have the same rank as 3GH, Houken is not part of Riboku's personal army, while Tou is Ouki's vice general, he is part of his personal army.
Also, Ouki doesn't just plot a plan, fail so relies on Tou to save the day.. no he does the planning, doesn't fail and actually relies on his own strength in the battlefield when necessary to save his army. That's the big difference between the two.
Also, Moubo disobedience to Ouki's orders and his stupidity cost Qin that war, Ouki would never fall for Riboku's trap otherwise, infact he knew of the trap laid and even figured out where the hidden army of Riboku was, but hara had to give Bugatti horses for Riboku so they make it 1 sec before houken gets killed by ouki (him stopping is BS anyways), and if ouki had killed houken, Riboku has 0 chance of killing Ouki. I.e failed even though he had 2 armies, 2 members of the 3GH. All this shows how grand Ouki looked even though he lost that war.
Lol, Riboku "knows everything" is plot, Houken whole character is plot, lmao!
All that matters is you know Duke cornered Riboku and with no houken to save him, he would've been killed like a bitch.
Duke with a similar army to Riboku would absolutely decimate Riboku granted no outer interference.
No. Riboku wasted time because he didn't think of a possibility that reinforcement was coming, he was using a regular approach to siege the city, like he was Heki.
Atleast, Ouki thought of and knew that there was another Zhao army was coming.. Riboku didn't.
Also when the Mountain army showed up, all he did was escape, Other generals have managed to turn the sides with even more favourless situations, but Riboku couldn't do anything even though he's China's proclaimed no.1 general? Lol, joke thing blud.
This is all Headcanon,
If you're saying Riboku intended for his plan to fail and for his HQ to get attacked so Houken can come in to kill gekishin then prove it, otherwise its headcanon. If that was his plan hara would surely relay that to the readers, as he does with every single plan in the manga, but it's the opposite, Riboku was not expecting Gekishin to see through his plan, re-read the manga and stop feeding on Riboku's jizz.
If you're claiming Gekishin wouldn't have done shit anyways that's also BS. Gekishin had 15K elite troops while Riboku had 7 or 8K. Also, Gekishin troops were slaughtering the Zhao soldiers before Houken saves Riboku's ass.
All evidence point to Riboku was losing to Gekishin.. his plan failed, and his HQ was attacked by a greater force. But of course, Houken saves his ass as usual.
Again, when Riboku was clearly clowned, it's plot all of a sudden.
Riboku is the one at fault, he underestimated Kanki. He kept saying Kanki can't do shit, he don't know shit, he's sitting there waiting to be killed etc, but kanki played him and escaped from his encirclement, and after that Riboku was dancing on Kanki's palm all the way until he nearly got killed.
So even though he had the advantage on every scale possible, he still was clowned and nearly lost. Vast numerical advantage, territorial advantage, citizens were helping him by poisoning Qin's army at sekerei etc, with all that, Kanki outclassed Riboku tactically and Riboku got his head sliced and was saved only due to plot. Yes, plot armor. Zeno who was a few men away from Riboku suddenly gets forgotten by hara until reinforcement arrives, Kanki after slicing Riboku's head, starts having conversations instead of finishing him, Kaine having advCoO all of a sudden etc.
See, here is a case of Kanki turning an extremely hopeless fight upside down and nearly ended up victorious, even though he lost he still looked impressive more than Riboku who won.. this is what Riboku failed to do against Sai, he looked like shit and just ran away like a rat.
And as for Ousen... I don't wanna take away Ousen's legit W but since you do the same for Riboku I might as well
The literal walking plot armor Shin-kun and his underling Ouhon... going through awakening in their time of need...
Shin defeating not only the right army and Chougaryuu but also Houken (after days of starvation and taking a huge injury to the place where he shouldn't be able to put any strength in his swing anymore) in the same arc.........................................................................................................................
Ousen (the guy who never takes fights he isn't certain about) banking on a miracle to save him
He did outplay him in the locusts plan tho. At least he had the decency to admit he was worse in the field
And back to this recent war, Ousen was the one who cooked up the Northern invasion plan. He got outplayed hard
I will make a tally of all their big and small Ws and Ls one day.
The literal walking plot armor Shin-kun and his underling Ouhon... going through awakening in their time of need...
Shin defeating not only the right army and Chougaryuu but also Houken (after days of starvation and taking a huge injury to the place where he shouldn't be able to put any strength in his swing anymore) in the same arc.........................................................................................................................
Ousen (the guy who never takes fights he isn't certain about) banking on a miracle to save him
He did outplay him in the locusts plan tho. At least he had the decency to admit he was worse in the field
And back to this recent war, Ousen was the one who cooked up the Northern invasion plan. He got outplayed hard
I will make a tally of all their big and small Ws and Ls one day.
The rest is excuses and sounds of you slurping on Riboku's dick.
The worst plot here is how many generals Zhao keep popping out of nowhere..
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Aw look at this, you can't even start the argument without foaming at the mouth
But Houken fighting Ouki was always the plan. I guess you can't read. Explains a lot
And what does it matter if Tou is below him. Not having the position doesn't mean shit, doesn't mean you stop functioning lol. But I guess you didn't have an actual argument so makes sense. And failing to make use of him is a failure of Ouki's leadership. He has a 6GG caliber subordinate and another almost 6 GG calibre subordinate
Houken literally doesn't do anything but fight when he wants to. You trying to make him seem like he is an actual 3GH is actually hilarious. This is low
And you're just being straight up lying if you would take Houken above Tou in a war.
Aww, back with the "Moubu disobedient bruv" argument. Ouki knowingly gave him all those troops(which I said before nut you didn't address it, not unexpected). Ouki's most intelligent subordinate was with Moubu and he said it wasn't stupidity and he thought it wasn't bad to follow the trap. It was a gamble that Ouki took and lost. Stop with the excuses. For someone who "calls out" Riboku fans for making excuses, seems like that's literally all you do.
And no Ouki wasn't getting out of the encirclement regardless, that complete and utter head-canon. It was 40k vs 6k. Now getting out of that would be plot lol.
For the plot arguments... fast Horses are literally history lol. The amount of delusion you have to have to argue against this must be astronomical. Arriving there at just the right moment was the plan. Not just when Houken was about to die but Ouki was dead regardless.
Houken, the guy who has done nothing but train his entire life, the strength that has been foiled on literally every critical moment in every war by either Shin or Ouki by power of love is plot. But for Shin and Ouki "tHAt iS tHeiEr oWN pOWer" and not plot? Interesting strategy for an argument.
Yeah the guy that did nothing but study war his whole life knowing about war is plot... could you have any worse false equivalency lmao? And I already addressed Houken above, what do you mean he is plot? Can you provide an actual argument instead of regurgitating what you heard in your daily circlejerk? But I see you didn't argue against instincts being plot so I will take that as you conceding
Also what do you base Duke decimating RBK on an equal field again? Is that you talking out your ass? He caught Riboku army from behind with a charge. That's not the same as a battle field where you can't just charge lol. In small numbers Duke is decimating any army that doesn't have someone physically stronger than Duke yes. A full scale war is a completely different scenario lol.
Aight lol. I guess you only address the plot when it's favorable to you. YTW army showing just an hour late and then literally the whole war is over. No matter how you slice it, it's plot. It's not debatable. It wasn't even the plan to show up at that time. They arrived a day early, imagine if they arrived 23 hours early only... haha
Also even if he defeated the new army he wouldn't have the troops to seige the big ass city that was Kanyou. No army has ever done this except defeat the new army take heavy losses and retreating.
And Ouki died and Riboku lived. So much for "knowing" shit, not to mention Riboku took into account that Ouki might have a hunch. I guess we know who the better general is. I mean even Ouki knows it lol
Talk about strawmanning an argument. I promise this is not a political debate, you don't need to do that.
Making your HQ a bait is a universal stretagy that has been employed by pretty much everyone. Don't pretend that that's even a dagenrous gamble anymore. Also you can't have a basic back up incase someone notices your first plan? Riboku literally always has more than one plan. And it's not even Riboku. Literally most general have a basic plan which when broken through has a trap waiting for the opponent as the back up. What even is this argument
And Riboku knew he had Houken with him lol. I know you like to pretend that using Houken is this last resort that Riboku would only do if he can't do anything else instead of him making use of Houken to make his job even easier. But he called Houken to the field, he had him stationed at the HQ so he didn't need to brace for Gekishin or retreat which is a very valid strategy. He still had a massive number advantage after decimating Gekishin's army on literally every front. He didn't need to do anything that's why he didn't do anything otherwise he would.
You're the one who was crying about plot saving Riboku... what the fuck. Can you not keep your arguments straight? Now you're crying cause someone retaliated in how even getting in that position was massive plot driven bullshit? I haven't argued against a more disingenious piece of shit
Let's break this shit down
A huge army looking through everything trying to find Kanki couldn't find either of 3 units hiding big enough to ambush their main camp...
Somehow they started a big ass forest fire with no equipment in a cold region...
Somehow it appearing as a fire within city which is literally impossible if even one person was looking cause they would see the city wall first much less when a whole unit is looking at it from multiple difrrent angles
Riboku forgetting that Kanki doesn't have the troops and the city is heavily guarded is pure and utter nonsense which is presented as a momentary lapse in judgedment and shown in a few panel so that we don't think about how he would have had hours to think about it before encountering the ambush lol
Don't cry plot when the only reason Kanki got to shine was becuase Hara didn't want him to go out as pathetically as he would have
The only thing Kanki himself accomplised was escaping the encirclemment thanks to himself and Shin. And even that was a complete loss as 90%(126k) soldiers dead with minimal losses on the Zhao side
Riboku created the number advantage, the war started with 400k vs 330k, with Riboku having a number disadvantage. Nobody asked Qin to attack the north he lured them in their with long term planning making them have no other option but making Ousen think it was actually his plan all along and then fucked Ousen's plan of attacking the north in the ass. Poisioning the wells was becuase of Kanki's actions which if he hadn't done would mean fighting 100k more troops so that's actually good that Kanki did that military wise speaking. He created every advantage he had.
Not only Kanki, but Ousen and Shoheikun literally danced to his tune from start to finish except when plot gave Kanki a shining moment.
Yes I acknowledged that because I am not as retarded and disingenious as you. But this tactical ploy would have failed if not for miracles for Qin(which is literally acknowledged in the manga) which OF COURSE you wouldn't want to argue cause you can't.
But Houken fighting Ouki was always the plan. I guess you can't read. Explains a lot
And what does it matter if Tou is below him. Not having the position doesn't mean shit, doesn't mean you stop functioning lol. But I guess you didn't have an actual argument so makes sense. And failing to make use of him is a failure of Ouki's leadership. He has a 6GG caliber subordinate and another almost 6 GG calibre subordinate
Houken literally doesn't do anything but fight when he wants to. You trying to make him seem like he is an actual 3GH is actually hilarious. This is low
And you're just being straight up lying if you would take Houken above Tou in a war.
Aww, back with the "Moubu disobedient bruv" argument. Ouki knowingly gave him all those troops(which I said before nut you didn't address it, not unexpected). Ouki's most intelligent subordinate was with Moubu and he said it wasn't stupidity and he thought it wasn't bad to follow the trap. It was a gamble that Ouki took and lost. Stop with the excuses. For someone who "calls out" Riboku fans for making excuses, seems like that's literally all you do.
And no Ouki wasn't getting out of the encirclement regardless, that complete and utter head-canon. It was 40k vs 6k. Now getting out of that would be plot lol.
For the plot arguments... fast Horses are literally history lol. The amount of delusion you have to have to argue against this must be astronomical. Arriving there at just the right moment was the plan. Not just when Houken was about to die but Ouki was dead regardless.
Houken, the guy who has done nothing but train his entire life, the strength that has been foiled on literally every critical moment in every war by either Shin or Ouki by power of love is plot. But for Shin and Ouki "tHAt iS tHeiEr oWN pOWer" and not plot? Interesting strategy for an argument.
Yeah the guy that did nothing but study war his whole life knowing about war is plot... could you have any worse false equivalency lmao? And I already addressed Houken above, what do you mean he is plot? Can you provide an actual argument instead of regurgitating what you heard in your daily circlejerk? But I see you didn't argue against instincts being plot so I will take that as you conceding
Also what do you base Duke decimating RBK on an equal field again? Is that you talking out your ass? He caught Riboku army from behind with a charge. That's not the same as a battle field where you can't just charge lol. In small numbers Duke is decimating any army that doesn't have someone physically stronger than Duke yes. A full scale war is a completely different scenario lol.
Aight lol. I guess you only address the plot when it's favorable to you. YTW army showing just an hour late and then literally the whole war is over. No matter how you slice it, it's plot. It's not debatable. It wasn't even the plan to show up at that time. They arrived a day early, imagine if they arrived 23 hours early only... haha
Also even if he defeated the new army he wouldn't have the troops to seige the big ass city that was Kanyou. No army has ever done this except defeat the new army take heavy losses and retreating.
And Ouki died and Riboku lived. So much for "knowing" shit, not to mention Riboku took into account that Ouki might have a hunch. I guess we know who the better general is. I mean even Ouki knows it lol
Talk about strawmanning an argument. I promise this is not a political debate, you don't need to do that.
Making your HQ a bait is a universal stretagy that has been employed by pretty much everyone. Don't pretend that that's even a dagenrous gamble anymore. Also you can't have a basic back up incase someone notices your first plan? Riboku literally always has more than one plan. And it's not even Riboku. Literally most general have a basic plan which when broken through has a trap waiting for the opponent as the back up. What even is this argument
And Riboku knew he had Houken with him lol. I know you like to pretend that using Houken is this last resort that Riboku would only do if he can't do anything else instead of him making use of Houken to make his job even easier. But he called Houken to the field, he had him stationed at the HQ so he didn't need to brace for Gekishin or retreat which is a very valid strategy. He still had a massive number advantage after decimating Gekishin's army on literally every front. He didn't need to do anything that's why he didn't do anything otherwise he would.
You're the one who was crying about plot saving Riboku... what the fuck. Can you not keep your arguments straight? Now you're crying cause someone retaliated in how even getting in that position was massive plot driven bullshit? I haven't argued against a more disingenious piece of shit
Let's break this shit down
A huge army looking through everything trying to find Kanki couldn't find either of 3 units hiding big enough to ambush their main camp...
Somehow they started a big ass forest fire with no equipment in a cold region...
Somehow it appearing as a fire within city which is literally impossible if even one person was looking cause they would see the city wall first much less when a whole unit is looking at it from multiple difrrent angles
Riboku forgetting that Kanki doesn't have the troops and the city is heavily guarded is pure and utter nonsense which is presented as a momentary lapse in judgedment and shown in a few panel so that we don't think about how he would have had hours to think about it before encountering the ambush lol
Don't cry plot when the only reason Kanki got to shine was becuase Hara didn't want him to go out as pathetically as he would have
The only thing Kanki himself accomplised was escaping the encirclemment thanks to himself and Shin. And even that was a complete loss as 90%(126k) soldiers dead with minimal losses on the Zhao side
Riboku created the number advantage, the war started with 400k vs 330k, with Riboku having a number disadvantage. Nobody asked Qin to attack the north he lured them in their with long term planning making them have no other option but making Ousen think it was actually his plan all along and then fucked Ousen's plan of attacking the north in the ass. Poisioning the wells was becuase of Kanki's actions which if he hadn't done would mean fighting 100k more troops so that's actually good that Kanki did that military wise speaking. He created every advantage he had.
Not only Kanki, but Ousen and Shoheikun literally danced to his tune from start to finish except when plot gave Kanki a shining moment.
Yes I acknowledged that because I am not as retarded and disingenious as you. But this tactical ploy would have failed if not for miracles for Qin(which is literally acknowledged in the manga) which OF COURSE you wouldn't want to argue cause you can't.
Aw look at this, you can't even start the argument without foaming at the mouth
But Houken fighting Ouki was always the plan. I guess you can't read. Explains a lot
And what does it matter if Tou is below him. Not having the position doesn't mean shit, doesn't mean you stop functioning lol. But I guess you didn't have an actual argument so makes sense. And failing to make use of him is a failure of Ouki's leadership. He has a 6GG caliber subordinate and another almost 6 GG calibre subordinate
Houken literally doesn't do anything but fight when he wants to. You trying to make him seem like he is an actual 3GH is actually hilarious. This is low
And you're just being straight up lying if you would take Houken above Tou in a war.
Aww, back with the "Moubu disobedient bruv" argument. Ouki knowingly gave him all those troops(which I said before nut you didn't address it, not unexpected). Ouki's most intelligent subordinate was with Moubu and he said it wasn't stupidity and he thought it wasn't bad to follow the trap. It was a gamble that Ouki took and lost. Stop with the excuses. For someone who "calls out" Riboku fans for making excuses, seems like that's literally all you do.
And no Ouki wasn't getting out of the encirclement regardless, that complete and utter head-canon. It was 40k vs 6k. Now getting out of that would be plot lol.
For the plot arguments... fast Horses are literally history lol. The amount of delusion you have to have to argue against this must be astronomical. Arriving there at just the right moment was the plan. Not just when Houken was about to die but Ouki was dead regardless.
Houken, the guy who has done nothing but train his entire life, the strength that has been foiled on literally every critical moment in every war by either Shin or Ouki by power of love is plot. But for Shin and Ouki "tHAt iS tHeiEr oWN pOWer" and not plot? Interesting strategy for an argument.
Yeah the guy that did nothing but study war his whole life knowing about war is plot... could you have any worse false equivalency lmao? And I already addressed Houken above, what do you mean he is plot? Can you provide an actual argument instead of regurgitating what you heard in your daily circlejerk? But I see you didn't argue against instincts being plot so I will take that as you conceding
Also what do you base Duke decimating RBK on an equal field again? Is that you talking out your ass? He caught Riboku army from behind with a charge. That's not the same as a battle field where you can't just charge lol. In small numbers Duke is decimating any army that doesn't have someone physically stronger than Duke yes. A full scale war is a completely different scenario lol.
Aight lol. I guess you only address the plot when it's favorable to you. YTW army showing just an hour late and then literally the whole war is over. No matter how you slice it, it's plot. It's not debatable. It wasn't even the plan to show up at that time. They arrived a day early, imagine if they arrived 23 hours early only... haha
Also even if he defeated the new army he wouldn't have the troops to seige the big ass city that was Kanyou. No army has ever done this except defeat the new army take heavy losses and retreating.
And Ouki died and Riboku lived. So much for "knowing" shit, not to mention Riboku took into account that Ouki might have a hunch. I guess we know who the better general is. I mean even Ouki knows it lol
Talk about strawmanning an argument. I promise this is not a political debate, you don't need to do that.
Making your HQ a bait is a universal stretagy that has been employed by pretty much everyone. Don't pretend that that's even a dagenrous gamble anymore. Also you can't have a basic back up incase someone notices your first plan? Riboku literally always has more than one plan. And it's not even Riboku. Literally most general have a basic plan which when broken through has a trap waiting for the opponent as the back up. What even is this argument
And Riboku knew he had Houken with him lol. I know you like to pretend that using Houken is this last resort that Riboku would only do if he can't do anything else instead of him making use of Houken to make his job even easier. But he called Houken to the field, he had him stationed at the HQ so he didn't need to brace for Gekishin or retreat which is a very valid strategy. He still had a massive number advantage after decimating Gekishin's army on literally every front. He didn't need to do anything that's why he didn't do anything otherwise he would.
You're the one who was crying about plot saving Riboku... what the fuck. Can you not keep your arguments straight? Now you're crying cause someone retaliated in how even getting in that position was massive plot driven bullshit? I haven't argued against a more disingenious piece of shit
Let's break this shit down
A huge army looking through everything trying to find Kanki couldn't find either of 3 units hiding big enough to ambush their main camp...
Somehow they started a big ass forest fire with no equipment in a cold region...
Somehow it appearing as a fire within city which is literally impossible if even one person was looking cause they would see the city wall first much less when a whole unit is looking at it from multiple difrrent angles
Riboku forgetting that Kanki doesn't have the troops and the city is heavily guarded is pure and utter nonsense which is presented as a momentary lapse in judgedment and shown in a few panel so that we don't think about how he would have had hours to think about it before encountering the ambush lol
Don't cry plot when the only reason Kanki got to shine was becuase Hara didn't want him to go out as pathetically as he would have
The only thing Kanki himself accomplised was escaping the encirclemment thanks to himself and Shin. And even that was a complete loss as 90%(126k) soldiers dead with minimal losses on the Zhao side
Riboku created the number advantage, the war started with 400k vs 330k, with Riboku having a number disadvantage. Nobody asked Qin to attack the north he lured them in their with long term planning making them have no other option but making Ousen think it was actually his plan all along and then fucked Ousen's plan of attacking the north in the ass. Poisioning the wells was becuase of Kanki's actions which if he hadn't done would mean fighting 100k more troops so that's actually good that Kanki did that military wise speaking. He created every advantage he had.
Not only Kanki, but Ousen and Shoheikun literally danced to his tune from start to finish except when plot gave Kanki a shining moment.
Yes I acknowledged that because I am not as retarded and disingenious as you. But this tactical ploy would have failed if not for miracles for Qin(which is literally acknowledged in the manga) which OF COURSE you wouldn't want to argue cause you can't.
But Houken fighting Ouki was always the plan. I guess you can't read. Explains a lot
And what does it matter if Tou is below him. Not having the position doesn't mean shit, doesn't mean you stop functioning lol. But I guess you didn't have an actual argument so makes sense. And failing to make use of him is a failure of Ouki's leadership. He has a 6GG caliber subordinate and another almost 6 GG calibre subordinate
Houken literally doesn't do anything but fight when he wants to. You trying to make him seem like he is an actual 3GH is actually hilarious. This is low
And you're just being straight up lying if you would take Houken above Tou in a war.
Aww, back with the "Moubu disobedient bruv" argument. Ouki knowingly gave him all those troops(which I said before nut you didn't address it, not unexpected). Ouki's most intelligent subordinate was with Moubu and he said it wasn't stupidity and he thought it wasn't bad to follow the trap. It was a gamble that Ouki took and lost. Stop with the excuses. For someone who "calls out" Riboku fans for making excuses, seems like that's literally all you do.
And no Ouki wasn't getting out of the encirclement regardless, that complete and utter head-canon. It was 40k vs 6k. Now getting out of that would be plot lol.
For the plot arguments... fast Horses are literally history lol. The amount of delusion you have to have to argue against this must be astronomical. Arriving there at just the right moment was the plan. Not just when Houken was about to die but Ouki was dead regardless.
Houken, the guy who has done nothing but train his entire life, the strength that has been foiled on literally every critical moment in every war by either Shin or Ouki by power of love is plot. But for Shin and Ouki "tHAt iS tHeiEr oWN pOWer" and not plot? Interesting strategy for an argument.
Yeah the guy that did nothing but study war his whole life knowing about war is plot... could you have any worse false equivalency lmao? And I already addressed Houken above, what do you mean he is plot? Can you provide an actual argument instead of regurgitating what you heard in your daily circlejerk? But I see you didn't argue against instincts being plot so I will take that as you conceding
Also what do you base Duke decimating RBK on an equal field again? Is that you talking out your ass? He caught Riboku army from behind with a charge. That's not the same as a battle field where you can't just charge lol. In small numbers Duke is decimating any army that doesn't have someone physically stronger than Duke yes. A full scale war is a completely different scenario lol.
Aight lol. I guess you only address the plot when it's favorable to you. YTW army showing just an hour late and then literally the whole war is over. No matter how you slice it, it's plot. It's not debatable. It wasn't even the plan to show up at that time. They arrived a day early, imagine if they arrived 23 hours early only... haha
Also even if he defeated the new army he wouldn't have the troops to seige the big ass city that was Kanyou. No army has ever done this except defeat the new army take heavy losses and retreating.
And Ouki died and Riboku lived. So much for "knowing" shit, not to mention Riboku took into account that Ouki might have a hunch. I guess we know who the better general is. I mean even Ouki knows it lol
Talk about strawmanning an argument. I promise this is not a political debate, you don't need to do that.
Making your HQ a bait is a universal stretagy that has been employed by pretty much everyone. Don't pretend that that's even a dagenrous gamble anymore. Also you can't have a basic back up incase someone notices your first plan? Riboku literally always has more than one plan. And it's not even Riboku. Literally most general have a basic plan which when broken through has a trap waiting for the opponent as the back up. What even is this argument
And Riboku knew he had Houken with him lol. I know you like to pretend that using Houken is this last resort that Riboku would only do if he can't do anything else instead of him making use of Houken to make his job even easier. But he called Houken to the field, he had him stationed at the HQ so he didn't need to brace for Gekishin or retreat which is a very valid strategy. He still had a massive number advantage after decimating Gekishin's army on literally every front. He didn't need to do anything that's why he didn't do anything otherwise he would.
You're the one who was crying about plot saving Riboku... what the fuck. Can you not keep your arguments straight? Now you're crying cause someone retaliated in how even getting in that position was massive plot driven bullshit? I haven't argued against a more disingenious piece of shit
Let's break this shit down
A huge army looking through everything trying to find Kanki couldn't find either of 3 units hiding big enough to ambush their main camp...
Somehow they started a big ass forest fire with no equipment in a cold region...
Somehow it appearing as a fire within city which is literally impossible if even one person was looking cause they would see the city wall first much less when a whole unit is looking at it from multiple difrrent angles
Riboku forgetting that Kanki doesn't have the troops and the city is heavily guarded is pure and utter nonsense which is presented as a momentary lapse in judgedment and shown in a few panel so that we don't think about how he would have had hours to think about it before encountering the ambush lol
Don't cry plot when the only reason Kanki got to shine was becuase Hara didn't want him to go out as pathetically as he would have
The only thing Kanki himself accomplised was escaping the encirclemment thanks to himself and Shin. And even that was a complete loss as 90%(126k) soldiers dead with minimal losses on the Zhao side
Riboku created the number advantage, the war started with 400k vs 330k, with Riboku having a number disadvantage. Nobody asked Qin to attack the north he lured them in their with long term planning making them have no other option but making Ousen think it was actually his plan all along and then fucked Ousen's plan of attacking the north in the ass. Poisioning the wells was becuase of Kanki's actions which if he hadn't done would mean fighting 100k more troops so that's actually good that Kanki did that military wise speaking. He created every advantage he had.
Not only Kanki, but Ousen and Shoheikun literally danced to his tune from start to finish except when plot gave Kanki a shining moment.
Yes I acknowledged that because I am not as retarded and disingenious as you. But this tactical ploy would have failed if not for miracles for Qin(which is literally acknowledged in the manga) which OF COURSE you wouldn't want to argue cause you can't.
Also, interestingly you haven't rebuted my other point on why the comparison you made is dumb..
Ouki doesn't just do the plan, and after it fails, he relies on Tou's strength to kill the enemy commander to get the W. He does the planning, doesn't fail and relies on his own strength to save his army when necessary. That's the difference
Riboku's win, it's actually houken who's gettig the W, which is not the case for Tou.
Yes, Moubu disobedience and stupidity was PIS that's not a normal occurrence in kingdom. Atleast, you have to concede that Ouki wouldn't have fallen to Riboku's plan if his army listened to his orders. Which is the main point. Ouki was not tactically played by Riboku.
Also lol, read the manga you cuck, Ouki did manage to get out of Riboku's encirclemet, he died because of the wounds by houken. He slipped by Riboku easy.. so credit goes to houken there. Headcanon you say? You're denying shit that actually happened in the manga dipshit, without houken, Riboku would have 0 chance to kill Ouki, Why? Because dying Ouki easily penetrated his army and his ass and got out on panel.
Yes, the Duke would decimate Riboku, his instincts sees through Riboku's plans, and his strength is far superior to Riboku. Duke > Riboku given the same army and no outer interference based on manga.
Yes, Riboku couldn't deduce that another army coming to reinforce the enemy, but Ouki deduced that. Ouki wasn't tactically inept, Riboku was.
"Making your HQ bait"
If that's what Riboku's plan was prove it, otherwise it's headcanon. Because hara always relays the plans to us,
Houken saved Riboku after his plan failed miserably against Gekishin and he was losing to gekishin superior force, until proven otherwise this is what happened in the manga, your headcanon means shit to anyone.
I'll reply to your other cuckery points once I have more time on my hands...
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Now.. "Riboku getting clowned Kanki is plot".
You're a die-hard cuck mate,
Kanki clowning Riboku is due to 2 reasons.
First, Riboku massively underrated Kanki, he thought Kanki can only do sneak tactics and he's dumbfounded otherwise... He kept preaching to his generals how kanki can't do shit, he doesn't know what to do, he's a sitting duck, he can't escape... while Kanki already had his scheme from the moment he was encircled that he's going to waste time until the sun sets and get out of there... that right there is where Kanki started to fuck Riboku up, he then used the night as they're better at since they're former bandits and they even tricked Zhao by crossing the river only to go back to the same side, while the Zhao were searching for them in the other side of the river.. that's not plot, that's kanki outplaying them again, and Kanki leaving the saki clan outside his main army to help siege Gi'an, that's not plot aswell, that's Kanki keeping them out since they're not good fighters anyways, also then Kanki Psychologically fucked up Zhao since he killed 100K soldiers, and after he implied he's going to Hika to target the civilians, they rushed to go there, because Riboku thought Kanki knew he's going down, so he might aswell cause a huge killings so the Northern Zhao morales take a huge hit.. That's what riboku thought kanki's motives are.. Read the manga you cuck instead of spouting BS, Kanki Psychologically fucked Riboku, he was clowning him and Riboku fell for it from the moment they set eyes in each other, Riboku didn't expect Kanki to target him personally, but Kanki did and then due to dumb plot reasons, Riboku survived. These dumb reasons were out of character, that's why they're considered plot.
Kanki outclassed Riboku even with his extremely disadvantageous position. that's clear as day.
No, You acknowledged Ousen outplayed Riboku because you can't make excuses that sound reasonable, you're still a disingenuous cuck.
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That is factually wrong, since Zhao army did open the gates of Sai and was saved last minute by Yotanwa's arrival. Sai city in the first place was presented as outstanding due to Eisei's morale boosts.
I know math can be hard, but c'mon.
>Won against Xiongnu with no Houken,
>Led a massive offscreen campaign against Yan and won without Houken,
>Won against Kanki by himself.
Even if you consider Houken a proper great heaven (which he is not) then them teaming up is something that was a norm in the battles of the past and even is a norm for Qin now.
Ouki not only had Tou in his army, he had Kyou seving under him for a while yet I don't see people bashing him about it.
All of the advantages he had he created by himself, which you conviniently omited. Qin sent a huge force for this invasion that was split up and reduced before the main clash even happened thanks to Riboku's scheme.
Riboku surviving Kanki's onslaught was also due to his abilities. He set up his formation specifically to get reinforcements quickly, rallied his guards morale to the point there were throwing their lives to protect him, he was even directing his troops like giving orders to Fuutei.
Kanki saw through his plan so well that he lost vast majority of his army in the encirlement while doing little to no damage to the oposing army. And yet you act like this is a W for him, just because he saved his head.
Gekishin saw through the mechanics of Riboku's scheme, but terribly misjudged the fact that Riboku would secure his HQ well, which is why he died like an idiot.
This is not a comperable situation lmao. Ouki figured out that there is another army based on Chousou's movements. Riboku in Sai had nothing to read to make the prediction. Plus, in Bayou Ouki figuring out the sneak attack was within Riboku's expectations, the real trap was him misjudging the speed of their arrvival.
And yes, Riboku predicted enemy's plans on multiple ocasions. In both northern campaigns he perfectly predicted the goal and direction of their armies, on Shukai he predicted Ousen's opening move and countered, even his plan at Bayou required high level of prediction.
I know math can be hard, but c'mon.
>Won against Xiongnu with no Houken,
>Led a massive offscreen campaign against Yan and won without Houken,
>Won against Kanki by himself.
Even if you consider Houken a proper great heaven (which he is not) then them teaming up is something that was a norm in the battles of the past and even is a norm for Qin now.
Ouki not only had Tou in his army, he had Kyou seving under him for a while yet I don't see people bashing him about it.
All of the advantages he had he created by himself, which you conviniently omited. Qin sent a huge force for this invasion that was split up and reduced before the main clash even happened thanks to Riboku's scheme.
Riboku surviving Kanki's onslaught was also due to his abilities. He set up his formation specifically to get reinforcements quickly, rallied his guards morale to the point there were throwing their lives to protect him, he was even directing his troops like giving orders to Fuutei.
Kanki saw through his plan so well that he lost vast majority of his army in the encirlement while doing little to no damage to the oposing army. And yet you act like this is a W for him, just because he saved his head.
Gekishin saw through the mechanics of Riboku's scheme, but terribly misjudged the fact that Riboku would secure his HQ well, which is why he died like an idiot.
This is not a comperable situation lmao. Ouki figured out that there is another army based on Chousou's movements. Riboku in Sai had nothing to read to make the prediction. Plus, in Bayou Ouki figuring out the sneak attack was within Riboku's expectations, the real trap was him misjudging the speed of their arrvival.
And yes, Riboku predicted enemy's plans on multiple ocasions. In both northern campaigns he perfectly predicted the goal and direction of their armies, on Shukai he predicted Ousen's opening move and countered, even his plan at Bayou required high level of prediction.
That is factually wrong, since Zhao army did open the gates of Sai and was saved last minute by Yotanwa's arrival. Sai city in the first place was presented as outstanding due to Eisei's morale boosts.
I know math can be hard, but c'mon.
>Won against Xiongnu with no Houken,
>Led a massive offscreen campaign against Yan and won without Houken,
>Won against Kanki by himself.
Even if you consider Houken a proper great heaven (which he is not) then them teaming up is something that was a norm in the battles of the past and even is a norm for Qin now.
Ouki not only had Tou in his army, he had Kyou seving under him for a while yet I don't see people bashing him about it.
All of the advantages he had he created by himself, which you conviniently omited. Qin sent a huge force for this invasion that was split up and reduced before the main clash even happened thanks to Riboku's scheme.
Riboku surviving Kanki's onslaught was also due to his abilities. He set up his formation specifically to get reinforcements quickly, rallied his guards morale to the point there were throwing their lives to protect him, he was even directing his troops like giving orders to Fuutei.
Kanki saw through his plan so well that he lost vast majority of his army in the encirlement while doing little to no damage to the oposing army. And yet you act like this is a W for him, just because he saved his head.
Gekishin saw through the mechanics of Riboku's scheme, but terribly misjudged the fact that Riboku would secure his HQ well, which is why he died like an idiot.
This is not a comperable situation lmao. Ouki figured out that there is another army based on Chousou's movements. Riboku in Sai had nothing to read to make the prediction. Plus, in Bayou Ouki figuring out the sneak attack was within Riboku's expectations, the real trap was him misjudging the speed of their arrvival.
And yes, Riboku predicted enemy's plans on multiple ocasions. In both northern campaigns he perfectly predicted the goal and direction of their armies, on Shukai he predicted Ousen's opening move and countered, even his plan at Bayou required high level of prediction.
I know math can be hard, but c'mon.
>Won against Xiongnu with no Houken,
>Led a massive offscreen campaign against Yan and won without Houken,
>Won against Kanki by himself.
Even if you consider Houken a proper great heaven (which he is not) then them teaming up is something that was a norm in the battles of the past and even is a norm for Qin now.
Ouki not only had Tou in his army, he had Kyou seving under him for a while yet I don't see people bashing him about it.
All of the advantages he had he created by himself, which you conviniently omited. Qin sent a huge force for this invasion that was split up and reduced before the main clash even happened thanks to Riboku's scheme.
Riboku surviving Kanki's onslaught was also due to his abilities. He set up his formation specifically to get reinforcements quickly, rallied his guards morale to the point there were throwing their lives to protect him, he was even directing his troops like giving orders to Fuutei.
Kanki saw through his plan so well that he lost vast majority of his army in the encirlement while doing little to no damage to the oposing army. And yet you act like this is a W for him, just because he saved his head.
Gekishin saw through the mechanics of Riboku's scheme, but terribly misjudged the fact that Riboku would secure his HQ well, which is why he died like an idiot.
This is not a comperable situation lmao. Ouki figured out that there is another army based on Chousou's movements. Riboku in Sai had nothing to read to make the prediction. Plus, in Bayou Ouki figuring out the sneak attack was within Riboku's expectations, the real trap was him misjudging the speed of their arrvival.
And yes, Riboku predicted enemy's plans on multiple ocasions. In both northern campaigns he perfectly predicted the goal and direction of their armies, on Shukai he predicted Ousen's opening move and countered, even his plan at Bayou required high level of prediction.
Also, running straight away like he's an average schmuck was very poor on his behalf, other general made comebacks with even worse situations and he just dips.
Exactly, offscreen.
On screen, he barely won 1 fight with tremendous plot to save him from getting killed, and he was outclassed by kanki, when he had an overwhelming advantage.
He had the advantage from the get go, prep time, seika generals, his own territory, citizens poisoning Qin soldiers, numerical advantage etc.
Yes, he created the advantage against Kanki, but he lost a very important territory due to that, he lost atsuyo. If he gets credit for it, then he takes the L at atsuyo aswell.
Houken is a seperate 3GH, he deserves the credit for defeating Gekishin, Duke and Ouki.
Riboku's strategy was not enough to kill any of these.. without houken.
But he failed to predict shit in Sai, and he failed in the southern Zhao invasion and he failed to predict Kanki's movement multiple times. And even though he predicted well against Ouki, his strategy wasnt enough, it was houken's strength that made the difference, afterall dying ouki made it out easily.
In kingdom, it isn't just about strategy, Raw strength plays a huge role. Riboku lacks immensely in that, and there are alot of generals who have both, this is why Riboku has to be helped by houken to get a W. Or needs to have a massive advantage against his enemy. Objectively speaking, Ouki, Renpa and the Duke would maul him giving equal terms in a war.
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Also Riboku has another weakness that is apparent for anyone who isn't fangirling him like kaine.
Riboku overestimates himself, he was bragging that he could beat all 6GG of Qin even if they attacked him all at once.
Lol, kanki takes the W in Western Zhao.
Then Ousen + Kanki + Yotanwa takes the W in the southern Zhao.
He defeated kanki, but lost important territory of atsuyo.
He thought Kanki could nothing against his trap, and was rudely humbled.
Zhao lost half their territory atleast and he thinks he can best all of Qin's 6GG? He's delusional and so is his fanbase apparently.
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Ok, so he lost because he didn't predict something that no other general would be capable of predicting? Got it.
The manga explained that Riboku had to conserve his forces for the main event that is siege of Kanyou with Shouheikun defending it. Basically he would have to fight his way a fresh Yotanwa army and then face SHK at the capital again. Retreating in this situation was the right thing to do.
Remind me how many battles Ouki won onscreen?
Everything that is happening in the series is a plot. I can do the same and say Kanki being able to ambush Riboku in the first place was a plot not his own abilities. I already gave you the arguements why Riboku survived thanks to his own abilities as warrior and commander.
Both sides had the same prep time, it's just that Riboku used the time given in more efficient way. You are missing the point tho. Riboku was able to utilize those advantages, because he was able to predict Qin will attack Gian. If that didn't happen then this entire invasion would be vastly different. Which is why Ousen and Shouheikun were so impressed by it and said they underestimated him.
No one cared about Atsuyo and it was never potrayed as a big loss for Zhao. Head of Qin's poster boy and death of more then 150k Qin troops is more then enough to justify it's sacrefice. The fact that Riboku was rewarded afterwards it's enough proof that is the case.
Houken is a glorified bodyguard who never became a proper general and is incapable of commanding a 10-man squad on his own. Even the reason he was given the title in the first place was to be a bait for Ouki.
I can give him credit for killing Duke, but both against Ouki and Gekishin he served the role of the chesspiece used by Riboku. Even the manga itself gives those two achievements to Riboku, not Houken. And that includes Ouki himself. When people mention those battles it is always Riboku mentioned as the man who is responsible for those victories.
Not true, in Kigdom top tier strategists are not potrayed as inferior to allrounders just because they lack in martial might. Hakuki was trolling Renpa with cat and mouse warfare multiple times, Rinshoujo was called equal to Renpa and his rival, Reiou was highly respected by Ouki etc. It's silly to think Hakuki and Rinshoujo can match or even win over allrounders with just their tactics, but Riboku who has superior potrayal needs Houken for the same thing.
Even if you believe it to be the case Riboku is still strong enough fighter to be consider a martial beast in his own right.
You mean that one time when he was trash talking and trying to taunt them? Even the manga aknowledged that he was not serious about it.
The manga explained that Riboku had to conserve his forces for the main event that is siege of Kanyou with Shouheikun defending it. Basically he would have to fight his way a fresh Yotanwa army and then face SHK at the capital again. Retreating in this situation was the right thing to do.
Remind me how many battles Ouki won onscreen?
Everything that is happening in the series is a plot. I can do the same and say Kanki being able to ambush Riboku in the first place was a plot not his own abilities. I already gave you the arguements why Riboku survived thanks to his own abilities as warrior and commander.
Both sides had the same prep time, it's just that Riboku used the time given in more efficient way. You are missing the point tho. Riboku was able to utilize those advantages, because he was able to predict Qin will attack Gian. If that didn't happen then this entire invasion would be vastly different. Which is why Ousen and Shouheikun were so impressed by it and said they underestimated him.
No one cared about Atsuyo and it was never potrayed as a big loss for Zhao. Head of Qin's poster boy and death of more then 150k Qin troops is more then enough to justify it's sacrefice. The fact that Riboku was rewarded afterwards it's enough proof that is the case.
Houken is a glorified bodyguard who never became a proper general and is incapable of commanding a 10-man squad on his own. Even the reason he was given the title in the first place was to be a bait for Ouki.
I can give him credit for killing Duke, but both against Ouki and Gekishin he served the role of the chesspiece used by Riboku. Even the manga itself gives those two achievements to Riboku, not Houken. And that includes Ouki himself. When people mention those battles it is always Riboku mentioned as the man who is responsible for those victories.
Not true, in Kigdom top tier strategists are not potrayed as inferior to allrounders just because they lack in martial might. Hakuki was trolling Renpa with cat and mouse warfare multiple times, Rinshoujo was called equal to Renpa and his rival, Reiou was highly respected by Ouki etc. It's silly to think Hakuki and Rinshoujo can match or even win over allrounders with just their tactics, but Riboku who has superior potrayal needs Houken for the same thing.
Even if you believe it to be the case Riboku is still strong enough fighter to be consider a martial beast in his own right.
You mean that one time when he was trash talking and trying to taunt them? Even the manga aknowledged that he was not serious about it.
Ok, so he lost because he didn't predict something that no other general would be capable of predicting? Got it.
The manga explained that Riboku had to conserve his forces for the main event that is siege of Kanyou with Shouheikun defending it. Basically he would have to fight his way a fresh Yotanwa army and then face SHK at the capital again. Retreating in this situation was the right thing to do.
Remind me how many battles Ouki won onscreen?
Everything that is happening in the series is a plot. I can do the same and say Kanki being able to ambush Riboku in the first place was a plot not his own abilities. I already gave you the arguements why Riboku survived thanks to his own abilities as warrior and commander.
Both sides had the same prep time, it's just that Riboku used the time given in more efficient way. You are missing the point tho. Riboku was able to utilize those advantages, because he was able to predict Qin will attack Gian. If that didn't happen then this entire invasion would be vastly different. Which is why Ousen and Shouheikun were so impressed by it and said they underestimated him.
No one cared about Atsuyo and it was never potrayed as a big loss for Zhao. Head of Qin's poster boy and death of more then 150k Qin troops is more then enough to justify it's sacrefice. The fact that Riboku was rewarded afterwards it's enough proof that is the case.
Houken is a glorified bodyguard who never became a proper general and is incapable of commanding a 10-man squad on his own. Even the reason he was given the title in the first place was to be a bait for Ouki.
I can give him credit for killing Duke, but both against Ouki and Gekishin he served the role of the chesspiece used by Riboku. Even the manga itself gives those two achievements to Riboku, not Houken. And that includes Ouki himself. When people mention those battles it is always Riboku mentioned as the man who is responsible for those victories.
Not true, in Kigdom top tier strategists are not potrayed as inferior to allrounders just because they lack in martial might. Hakuki was trolling Renpa with cat and mouse warfare multiple times, Rinshoujo was called equal to Renpa and his rival, Reiou was highly respected by Ouki etc. It's silly to think Hakuki and Rinshoujo can match or even win over allrounders with just their tactics, but Riboku who has superior potrayal needs Houken for the same thing.
Even if you believe it to be the case Riboku is still strong enough fighter to be consider a martial beast in his own right.
You mean that one time when he was trash talking and trying to taunt them? Even the manga aknowledged that he was not serious about it.
The manga explained that Riboku had to conserve his forces for the main event that is siege of Kanyou with Shouheikun defending it. Basically he would have to fight his way a fresh Yotanwa army and then face SHK at the capital again. Retreating in this situation was the right thing to do.
Remind me how many battles Ouki won onscreen?
Everything that is happening in the series is a plot. I can do the same and say Kanki being able to ambush Riboku in the first place was a plot not his own abilities. I already gave you the arguements why Riboku survived thanks to his own abilities as warrior and commander.
Both sides had the same prep time, it's just that Riboku used the time given in more efficient way. You are missing the point tho. Riboku was able to utilize those advantages, because he was able to predict Qin will attack Gian. If that didn't happen then this entire invasion would be vastly different. Which is why Ousen and Shouheikun were so impressed by it and said they underestimated him.
No one cared about Atsuyo and it was never potrayed as a big loss for Zhao. Head of Qin's poster boy and death of more then 150k Qin troops is more then enough to justify it's sacrefice. The fact that Riboku was rewarded afterwards it's enough proof that is the case.
Houken is a glorified bodyguard who never became a proper general and is incapable of commanding a 10-man squad on his own. Even the reason he was given the title in the first place was to be a bait for Ouki.
I can give him credit for killing Duke, but both against Ouki and Gekishin he served the role of the chesspiece used by Riboku. Even the manga itself gives those two achievements to Riboku, not Houken. And that includes Ouki himself. When people mention those battles it is always Riboku mentioned as the man who is responsible for those victories.
Not true, in Kigdom top tier strategists are not potrayed as inferior to allrounders just because they lack in martial might. Hakuki was trolling Renpa with cat and mouse warfare multiple times, Rinshoujo was called equal to Renpa and his rival, Reiou was highly respected by Ouki etc. It's silly to think Hakuki and Rinshoujo can match or even win over allrounders with just their tactics, but Riboku who has superior potrayal needs Houken for the same thing.
Even if you believe it to be the case Riboku is still strong enough fighter to be consider a martial beast in his own right.
You mean that one time when he was trash talking and trying to taunt them? Even the manga aknowledged that he was not serious about it.
Nah, Kanki ambushing Riboku was not plot, some other Riboku cuck was arguing the same shit, Riboku was underrating Kanki, he was talking shit about how he doesn't have any scheme left up his sleeve, how all he can do is sneak moves, about how he's a sitting duck waiting to be killed. He got humbled because he overestimated himself and underestimated Kanki. But Riboku surviving Kanki's assault is full of plot armor. Zeno was a few men away from Riboku.. yet hara forgets he's even there until reinforcement come and then a couple of arrows are enough to push him back a good distance. Kanki instead of finishing off Riboku starts having a podcast conversing with Riboku when he knows time is short, Kaine having advCoO all of a sudden etc. All of this is clear P.I.S, just like Ouki stopping mid-blow to finish off houken, if he just completes his swing, houken is dead and Ouki can get out alive from his predicament easily. And Riboku's plan would've failed. But plot and houken's strength were the ones that actually killed ouki.
0. Atleast he showed top notch strategy and wits and top tier strength and doesn't take credit of other peer generals as his own. Renpa lost to mogou, but we all know who was more impressive, Renpa. That was the same, ouki impressed more than Riboku. To take him out, 2 if the 3GH were needed and 2 Zhao armies and a bit of plot help aswell. He died, but he was the most impressive that war.
Dude, Riboku always had the advantage since the invasion started.. he's always had more troops, he's in his own territory etc.
The lost of atsuyo is big, it's become a base for Qin to attack the Northern Zhao, it's a big city, Zhao just lost the whole southern part and he loses atsuyo aswell. That's a huge L, His goal first and foremost is to protect Zhao not kill kanki. 1/2 of Zhao have been taken by Qin. He's gotten L's continuously, his 1 W came with cost of another L. Not impressive, he hasn't retained one territory back from Qin. Setting up traps here and there while losing on massive territory is not a W.
Houken is a 3GH, he killed Ouki, Duke and Gekishin. He's been the most impressive Commander amongst Zhao. He's not a bodyguard under Riboku, his credit is his own. Riboku doesn't automatically get Houken's credit.
Gaimou is a general that uses brawn and strength alone, he has some strategist to do the planning, doesn't take away from his credit.
Shin and Ten have the same relationship on some occasion. Riboku is a glorified ten.
While houken is like shin.
The issue with Riboku is how inconsistent his hype in the manga with his actual feats in war. I'm not denying he gets hyped to all hell, but his feats are not good enough to deserve that hype.
Nah, Riboku is not that strong, against random fodders maybe yeah, but dude was getting beat by shuma and Ringyoku. Kanki is not considered a martial beast and yet he nearly one-shotted him. 90% of the top GG would one-shot him.