If Zoro fights Kizaru this arc while Luffy fights Saturn, I think Kuzan is a better next matchup for him than Shiryu. And Shiryu feels more in line with a Sanji fight because he basically relies on sneak attacks these days, which would make for a super boring Zoro fight, and a swordsman is perfect to show off Sanji's exoskeleton. So I could see the 10th member not having to be Kuzan's matchup.
General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Uncle Van
- Start date
- Tags #c4ng2g carrot fans are still losers carrot haters are real losers seethe at the rabbit carrot is doing nothing because she doesn't matter carrot will never join the straw hats carrot's story never even began cry about carrot everyone else in the verse neg diffs the bunny imagine thinking stussy won't join its over furry bros keep the bunny on zou nobody else needs her let it go furry bros momo is breeding yamato no character is less relevant than carrot oden larper fans can't read stussy > carrot & yamato stussy supremacy who will be the next nakama of the week? yamato always had a better chance than carrot yamato story is over
I don't see Yamato being able to take on an admiral let alone Kuzan. She is more Yc2/yc1 tier and Zoro and Sanji already suppassed this when they got their techniques figured out. The match ups seem to contrast, at least from my pov. I need to see more of the others powers.
We have the current match up
- The captains (Teach Vs Luffy)
- A man who create diseases VS a doctor (Doc Q Vs Chopper)
- A luchador who values strength VS a highly trained material artist who values technique (Jesus Burgess Vs Jinbe)
- A sniper who warps shots almost point blank vs a traditional sniper (Van Augur Vs Ussop)
- A Man power by wine vs a man powered by cola (Vasco Shot Vs franky)
We have the current match up
- The captains (Teach Vs Luffy)
- A man who create diseases VS a doctor (Doc Q Vs Chopper)
- A luchador who values strength VS a highly trained material artist who values technique (Jesus Burgess Vs Jinbe)
- A sniper who warps shots almost point blank vs a traditional sniper (Van Augur Vs Ussop)
- A Man power by wine vs a man powered by cola (Vasco Shot Vs franky)
Thematically, Smoker fits. On top of that, he's an interesting reoccurring character introduced since the very beginning, and while I see him in rebuilt marines EOS, I could see Oda adding to his story and making a reasonable story why Smoker would join and also give me him an opportunity to do so.
Problem is, that for now Luffy himself is known for fighting multiple enemies (like he fought both Cracker and Katakuri) and BBP aren't tied at a hip, so I could see Luffy taking down both Kuzan and BB.
Yeah, I'm this low on hopes that someone will join.
Problem is, that for now Luffy himself is known for fighting multiple enemies (like he fought both Cracker and Katakuri) and BBP aren't tied at a hip, so I could see Luffy taking down both Kuzan and BB.
Yeah, I'm this low on hopes that someone will join.
Sadly, no, smoker doesn't fit.
Listen I know that you guys don't want to listen to it but there is a reason why I spend month on working on a theory for Carrot to prove that she was worthy. And this theory can be applied to ANY character. And doesn't fit, at least RIGHT NOW:
Simply because he doesn't fit some of the 7 most important rules:
Those are not created for funzy, they are important because without them, the character simply cannot become a mugiwara. The character must fit ALL the 7 first rules without question.
1. Smoker is alive so that's good
2. Smoker is kiiiiinda relevant to the story, so that's good
3. Smoker's ability and fighting style is unique so that's good
4. Smoker is NOT independant. He is part of the marine. And did not show ANY sign of wanting to get away from it. In fact he did the opposite. Smoker, like Koby, is the character that is meant to change the marines from the INSIDE.
5. Smoker is a false adversary so its good
6. Smoker is NOT looking and acting toward adventure. We Cooooooooooould say that him chasing Luffy is just that, but that's not enough to join the crew. Because if he joins the crew, then what ? No signs of wanting adventure.
7. Smoker do NOT have a moral pillar in anyway. And this is FOUNDAMENTAL to be a strawhat. Its part of the theme of the story, there is no getting around it.
So Smoker lack three points. He is therefore not fit to join.
Now, let's look at Bonney.
1. She is alive, so that's good.
2. She is relevant to the story so that's also good
3. Her ability is unique so that's perfect
4. She is a captain so NOT independant Buuuuuuuut you could argue that she wasn't seen with her crew since the timeskip, so they might have disbanded. So its good.
5. She is an ally, so that's cool.
6. There is no sign of wanting adventure for her, but she was a pirate crew so you cooooould argue that she wanted adventure anyway.
7. She has a moral pillar so that's also good.
Bonney therefore check all the first 7 rules. Like Yamato (before her choice) and Carrot
So now, we must look at what I named "the 12 pillars".
I gave a system of point to be fair because not every characters have those. Yamato has 28 points and Carrot has 30 points.
I would gave 27 for Bonney right now.
Yamato (before her choice) lacked a post, the shining nakama action and the refusal
Carrot lacked a strong character arc, the rescue a the refusal
And
Bonney lacks the post, hint of recrutment, the shining nakama action and the refusal
So you all got your answer. To be sure that Bonney will join, look for:
- A refusal of the call for adventure (that can take multiple form, not necessaraly after a demand by Luffy)
- A hint of recrutment, everything that could made us think that Luffy sees Bonney as someone special
- A post or at least hints of a post
- The shining Nakama action, a great action related thematically to the post that would save the situation and be exceptionnal.
If any of those 4 thing appears, Bonney will pass in front of Carrot in term of probabilities.
Listen I know that you guys don't want to listen to it but there is a reason why I spend month on working on a theory for Carrot to prove that she was worthy. And this theory can be applied to ANY character. And doesn't fit, at least RIGHT NOW:
Simply because he doesn't fit some of the 7 most important rules:
- Be alive
- Be relevant to the story
- Be unique and have a unique ability
- Be free from faction duty or independant
- Be a friend or a false adversary
- Looking and acting toward adventure
- Have a moral Pillar
Those are not created for funzy, they are important because without them, the character simply cannot become a mugiwara. The character must fit ALL the 7 first rules without question.
1. Smoker is alive so that's good
2. Smoker is kiiiiinda relevant to the story, so that's good
3. Smoker's ability and fighting style is unique so that's good
4. Smoker is NOT independant. He is part of the marine. And did not show ANY sign of wanting to get away from it. In fact he did the opposite. Smoker, like Koby, is the character that is meant to change the marines from the INSIDE.
5. Smoker is a false adversary so its good
6. Smoker is NOT looking and acting toward adventure. We Cooooooooooould say that him chasing Luffy is just that, but that's not enough to join the crew. Because if he joins the crew, then what ? No signs of wanting adventure.
7. Smoker do NOT have a moral pillar in anyway. And this is FOUNDAMENTAL to be a strawhat. Its part of the theme of the story, there is no getting around it.
So Smoker lack three points. He is therefore not fit to join.
Now, let's look at Bonney.
1. She is alive, so that's good.
2. She is relevant to the story so that's also good
3. Her ability is unique so that's perfect
4. She is a captain so NOT independant Buuuuuuuut you could argue that she wasn't seen with her crew since the timeskip, so they might have disbanded. So its good.
5. She is an ally, so that's cool.
6. There is no sign of wanting adventure for her, but she was a pirate crew so you cooooould argue that she wanted adventure anyway.
7. She has a moral pillar so that's also good.
Bonney therefore check all the first 7 rules. Like Yamato (before her choice) and Carrot
So now, we must look at what I named "the 12 pillars".
- The quirk. 1 point because it's quite common in One Piece.
- The fighting skill 2 Points, event tho it's also quite common.
- The antagonistic introduction. 2 Points because it impact the narration interestingly.
- The multi layered characterization. 3 Points, Interesting but quite common.
- The symbolic reach. 4 Points because it impacts the storytelling in an interesting way.
- The Strong character arc. 4 Points because strong character arc are in fact quite rare.
- The hint of a recrutment. 4 Points. I'll explain in detail what this parameter is about.
- The hint of 3 driving forces. 5 Points, you will understand why.
- The post. 5 Points, this is one of the most important parameter
- The Shining Nakama Action. 6 Points, this is the icing on top of the wedding cake
- The Rescue. 10 Points, this is a major part of the creation of a strawhat.
- The refusal of the call to adventure. 15 Points because it's THE deal breaker.
I gave a system of point to be fair because not every characters have those. Yamato has 28 points and Carrot has 30 points.
I would gave 27 for Bonney right now.
Yamato (before her choice) lacked a post, the shining nakama action and the refusal
Carrot lacked a strong character arc, the rescue a the refusal
And
Bonney lacks the post, hint of recrutment, the shining nakama action and the refusal
So you all got your answer. To be sure that Bonney will join, look for:
- A refusal of the call for adventure (that can take multiple form, not necessaraly after a demand by Luffy)
- A hint of recrutment, everything that could made us think that Luffy sees Bonney as someone special
- A post or at least hints of a post
- The shining Nakama action, a great action related thematically to the post that would save the situation and be exceptionnal.
If any of those 4 thing appears, Bonney will pass in front of Carrot in term of probabilities.
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You misunderstood me there. I was responding to @Phantasm in terms that thematically, Kuzan vs Smoker fits, as they said:
As a concept, it is beautiful. May happen if Smoker was ever joining the crew.
HOWEVER, I DO NOT THINK AS OF NOW THAT SMOKER WILL JOIN - there are some good points for him, but also some points that make his chances highly unlikely. I still give him the benefit of the doubt, as Oda might surprise us - did we expect Kuzan not just to leave Marines, but also join BBP? Marines I could argue that yes, it was kinda foreshadowed, but going to BBP? Not really. So while a story does follow a certain logic, Oda still might surprise us.
It's kinda ironic that you accuse people of not reading properly your posts, and then missing the point SO MUCH when responding to my post.
As a concept, it is beautiful. May happen if Smoker was ever joining the crew.
HOWEVER, I DO NOT THINK AS OF NOW THAT SMOKER WILL JOIN - there are some good points for him, but also some points that make his chances highly unlikely. I still give him the benefit of the doubt, as Oda might surprise us - did we expect Kuzan not just to leave Marines, but also join BBP? Marines I could argue that yes, it was kinda foreshadowed, but going to BBP? Not really. So while a story does follow a certain logic, Oda still might surprise us.
It's kinda ironic that you accuse people of not reading properly your posts, and then missing the point SO MUCH when responding to my post.
Not saying smoker will. But saying he doesn’t have a moral pillar is super wrong. Why did he let the strawhats get away in rainbow base? Why did he prioritize the life’s of the innocent in alabasta. Why did work together with pirates against Vergo who is a marine? Because his moral compass told him that is the right thing to do.
Sorry, I think you don't understand what I mean by "moral pillar". But I think this is my fault. This has nothing to do with the "moral compass". In fact maybe my wording is not the best, its sounded good at first but now that I think about it, it might not be ideal.
By moral pillar I meant the person from where the inherited will comes from, its the person that pushed the character in the back in the first place, its the character that the character will remember in complicated situation.
Luffy : Shanks
Zoro : Kuina
Nami : Bellmer
Usopp: Kaya/Bankina/Yassop
Sanji : Zeff
Chopper: Hiluluk
Robin: Olvia
Franky : Tom
Brook: Laboon/Rumbar Pirates
Jinbe: Fisher Tiger/Otohime
The concept of inherited will is extra important in One Piece so each strawhats or future strawhats must have that specificities.
I will try to come up with a better name for the concept. Something catchy, "Will Pillar" maybe..
By moral pillar I meant the person from where the inherited will comes from, its the person that pushed the character in the back in the first place, its the character that the character will remember in complicated situation.
Luffy : Shanks
Zoro : Kuina
Nami : Bellmer
Usopp: Kaya/Bankina/Yassop
Sanji : Zeff
Chopper: Hiluluk
Robin: Olvia
Franky : Tom
Brook: Laboon/Rumbar Pirates
Jinbe: Fisher Tiger/Otohime
The concept of inherited will is extra important in One Piece so each strawhats or future strawhats must have that specificities.
I will try to come up with a better name for the concept. Something catchy, "Will Pillar" maybe..
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?My post was not about Smoker fitting SHP though. So you could simply give your analysis on few popular candidates to show their "fitness", and there was no need to refer to something out of context.
Anyways, my stance now is that it becomes more and more unlikely that we get another nakama BUT Oda might surprise us.
Anyways, my stance now is that it becomes more and more unlikely that we get another nakama BUT Oda might surprise us.
Carrot inherited Pedro's will. Pedro wanted to join the king of pirates and help him bring dawn to the world. Roger told him he's on the waiting list and he'll be back for him when he's a little bit older. Who is the new Roger? Who is the new Pedro?
Losing to Perospero is the exact reason for which I think she'll join the crew.
She was too weak to stop Perospero, the man who was responsible for her mentors death, and had to have the Current Ruler of Zou take care of him for her. So why would it make sense for her to willingly take a position she knows she can't live up to in comparison to the previous leaders?
Perospero tells her to go back to zou and at the same time she remembers Pedro's words telling her to go forward
During Chapter 1056, Neko had told Carrot she was dependable due to her adventures with Luffy and the others. This is Oda confirming Carrot had shown growth in her adventures with Luffy, but having her lose to Perospero in order to show she needs to grow. She knows she isn't strong enough yet hence her being completely against the Idea.
Oda then decides to confirm her taking Pedro's will.
Which on top of him wanting her to grow into a strong warrior at any cost, it was to travel with the pirate king and achieve the dawn of the new world. Pedro says to her the same words Roger said to him when he was young
Oda needed a reason to tell you why carrot was special, and give her a reason to join the crew. That happened in chapter 1056, with him confirming having taken Pedro's will, confirming she grew stronger with Luffy, but having her lose to Perospero in order to show she needs to grow. It's literally the perfect strawhat storyline.
Losing to Perospero is the exact reason for which I think she'll join the crew.
She was too weak to stop Perospero, the man who was responsible for her mentors death, and had to have the Current Ruler of Zou take care of him for her. So why would it make sense for her to willingly take a position she knows she can't live up to in comparison to the previous leaders?
Perospero tells her to go back to zou and at the same time she remembers Pedro's words telling her to go forward
During Chapter 1056, Neko had told Carrot she was dependable due to her adventures with Luffy and the others. This is Oda confirming Carrot had shown growth in her adventures with Luffy, but having her lose to Perospero in order to show she needs to grow. She knows she isn't strong enough yet hence her being completely against the Idea.
Oda then decides to confirm her taking Pedro's will.
Which on top of him wanting her to grow into a strong warrior at any cost, it was to travel with the pirate king and achieve the dawn of the new world. Pedro says to her the same words Roger said to him when he was young
Oda needed a reason to tell you why carrot was special, and give her a reason to join the crew. That happened in chapter 1056, with him confirming having taken Pedro's will, confirming she grew stronger with Luffy, but having her lose to Perospero in order to show she needs to grow. It's literally the perfect strawhat storyline.
Well, why not, I didn't put that first because I wanted to show the fact that there was a special character involve each time, but I'll think about that.
What I did is reduced down to the minimum what the strawhats had in common and what the story for the strawhat to appear needs.
Hence why I came up with first 7 rules that are not debatable (each mugiwara MUST fit those rules) and 12 Pillars that are common to all strawhats and that are important for the story and the creation of a strawhat.
If my theory is crap, come with a better one. That's how theoryzing works. I'm waiting.
I know that.
What I did is reduced down to the minimum what the strawhats had in common and what the story for the strawhat to appear needs.
Hence why I came up with first 7 rules that are not debatable (each mugiwara MUST fit those rules) and 12 Pillars that are common to all strawhats and that are important for the story and the creation of a strawhat.
If my theory is crap, come with a better one. That's how theoryzing works. I'm waiting.
I know that.