Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

God is something far greater than any person, more like a cosmic force.

I don't care if god is a cosmic force, a person or a toy for dirty girls, as long as this "god" has a conscience and as long as this conscience is killing, this conscience must be dealt with.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Yes, that's one of the many reasons why I'm not a believer.

I think the torah is a book written by people and that while some of the initial intents of the book might not really align with our modern day perceptions of morality, the meaning of the torah can change over time via the oral law.

 

[Zenos7]

Peer reviewed study ? What study ?

SSRN-id3211703

its part of a dissertation iirc

 

[Roo]

A truly filthy society

Yeah, its not like every human society conquers and wages wars. Specially one where the main religion is about a conqueror

 

[Fn Lucci]

Yeah, its not like every human society conquers and wages wars. Specially one where the main religion is about a conqueror

Well, not "about." But as someone who didn't grow up with any sort of religion it does blow me away how much people give a fuck about what set someone reps. You can completely remove religion from any of these situations and nothing actually changes, but someone will pick the chip up and put it back in

 

[Roo]

Well, not "about." But as someone who didn't grow up with any sort of religion it does blow me away how much people give a fuck about what set someone reps. You can completely remove religion from any of these situations and nothing actually changes, but someone will pick the chip up and put it back in

What someone reps is important when pointing out cognitive dissonance. You can’t go around shitting on the west for “colonialism” when your entire society is based on basically the same shit.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Checking up on ya'll.

What's the current topic?

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Checking up on ya'll.

What's the current topic?

I think we're talking about religion?

Post automatically merged: Oct 23, 2023

Well, not "about." But as someone who didn't grow up with any sort of religion it does blow me away how much people give a fuck about what set someone reps. You can completely remove religion from any of these situations and nothing actually changes, but someone will pick the chip up and put it back in

Yeah to me most religions are very similar.

What someone reps is important when pointing out cognitive dissonance. You can’t go around shitting on the west for “colonialism” when your entire society is based on basically the same shit.

I think islamic conquests were fundamentally different from colonialism.

In that I don't believe islamic conquerors ever displaced the native population, as in the case of America or Israel, or subjugated the native population in order to funnel wealth back to the mother country, like with India or Africa

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Checking up on ya'll.

What's the current topic?

I guess religion now. But it all stems from the Israel/Gaza situation.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

I guess religion now. But it all stems from the Israel/Gaza situation.

I think we're talking about religion?

Noted.

Not a topic I'm touching then

 

[Toby D. Dog]

I think we're talking about religion?

Post automatically merged: Oct 23, 2023

Yeah to me most religions are very similar.


I think islamic conquests were fundamentally different from colonialism.

In that I don't believe islamic conquerors ever displaced the native population, as in the case of America or Israel, or subjugated the native population in order to funnel wealth back to the mother country, like with India or Africa

Thing is that we can go back hundreds or thousands of years and we'll see empires from all corners of the world displacing entire swaths of people from their homelands. But the further we go back the more difficult it is to get a clear picture of what went down. Muslims conquered most of the Iberian peninsula 1300 years ago. Although I'm not sure if they displaced the local population or not.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Thing is that we can go back hundreds or thousands of years and we'll see empires from all corners of the world displacing entire swaths of people from their homelands. But the further we go back the more difficult it is to get a clear picture of what went down. Muslims conquered most of the Iberian peninsula 1300 years ago. Although I'm not sure if they displaced the local population or not.

Don't know much about Iberian history, but from my understanding, it was the spanish that did the displacing.

They expelled all of the jews and muslims from the land. That's why there were so many jews in North Africa. All the ones that got expelled from Spain went there.

However eventually there was a rise in antisemitism due to the Arab Israeli conflict and jews in muslim countries got kicked out in the mid 20th century. That's why Israel is like 50% mizrahi, despite the original zionists being ashkenazi jews.

 

[Logiko]

Noted.

Not a topic I'm touching then

Not even God being a mass murderer ?

 

[Roo]

I think islamic conquests were fundamentally different from colonialism.

A lot of historians disagree, in fact by definition they were colonizers

Colonialism is a practice by which a one group of people, social construct, or nation state controls, directs, or imposes taxes or tribute on other people or areas, often by establishing colonies,[1] generally for strategic and economic advancement of the colonizing group or construct.[2] There is no clear definition of colonialism; definitions may vary depending on the use and context.[3][4][5][6]

The historical phenomenon of colonization is one that stretches around the globe and across time. Ancient and medieval colonialism was practiced by the Phoenicians, Greeks, Turks, and Arabs.

In that I don't believe islamic conquerors ever displaced the native population, as in the case of America or Israel, or subjugated the native population in order to funnel wealth back to the mother country, like with India or Africa

When it comes to ethnic cleansing idk enough to comment, but they definitely did exploit the regions they conquered and even used the native population for slave trading

rThe Arab-Muslim conquests followed a general pattern of nomadic conquests of settled regions, whereby the conquering peoples became the new military elite and reached a compromise with the old elites by allowing them to retain local political, religious, and financial authority.[119] Peasants, workers, and merchants paid taxes, while members of the old and new elites collected them.[119] Payment of taxes, which for peasants often reached half of the value of their produce, was not only an economic burden, but also a mark of social inferiority.[119] Scholars differ in their assessment of relative tax burdens before and after the conquests. John Esposito states that in effect this meant lower taxes.[128] According to Bernard Lewis, available evidence suggests that the change from Byzantine to Arab rule was "welcomed by many among the subject peoples, who found the new yoke far lighter than the old, both in taxation and in other matters".[129] In contrast, Norman Stillman writes that although the tax burden of the Jews under early Islamic rule was comparable to that under previous rulers, Christians of the Byzantine Empire (though not Christians of the Persian empire, whose status was similar to that of the Jews) and Zoroastrians of Iran shouldered a considerably heavier burden in the immediate aftermath of the conquests

They [the Arabs] export black slaves...belonging to the Mira, Zaghawa, Maruwa, and other black races who are near to them and whom they capture. I hear that the black kings sell blacks, without pretext and without war

Colonialism is not a "western" thing lol

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Don't know much about Iberian history, but from my understanding, it was the spanish that did the displacing.

They expelled all of the jews and muslims from the land. That's why there were so many jews in North Africa. All the ones that got expelled from Spain went there.

However eventually there was a rise in antisemitism due to the Arab Israeli conflict and jews in muslim countries got kicked out in the mid 20th century. That's why Israel is like 50% mizrahi, despite the original zionists being ashkenazi jews.

So you're not familiar with the Moorish invasion of the 800s? Yes the Spanish did expel the moors, but they arrived there after invading the whole peninsula in the first place (not that it was morally justified to expel them). As for the sephardic jews, they were closely related to the Ashkenazi, a lot of them did end up in north africa and the american colonies, hence why most latin americans can claim sephardic ancestry.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Not even God being a mass murderer ?

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Not even God being a mass murderer ?

If you just throw blanket statements like that instead of explaining the logic behind the aforementioned claim then it just comes across as preachy. How can you call yourself an "analyst" when you don't even support the basis of your claim?

 

[Roo]

Don't know much about Iberian history, but from my understanding, it was the spanish that did the displacing.

This is the reason for the longest war in history

 

[Toby D. Dog]

This is the reason for the longest war in history

I do think the Moorish let the local population keep their lands as long as they paid their taxes. At least the established nobles.

 

[Logiko]

If you just throw blanket statements like that instead of explaining the logic behind the aforementioned claim then it just comes across as preachy. How can you call yourself an "analyst" when you don't even support the basis of your claim?

Fair.
I see god as nothing but a concept. BUT in the case that a "god" exist, first I wouldn't call it a god and looking at the things they allowed and have done, they would need to be taken care of.