Character Discussion Is V. Nasujuro even eligible for the WSS title?
- Thread starter Shiroyru
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@Celestial D. Dragon Well of course the problem here is that there is no story avenue to both measure Ryuma’s feats against Mihawk and no story avenue for Zoro to replicate any of ryumama feats let alone surpass them
Ryuma’s feats are
1. Making a Shusui a black blade
2. Cutting the dragon that was terrorizing wano
3. Single-handedly keeping the entire WG out of Wano during his life time
First of all Since Mihawk made a STRONGER black blade than Ryuma did, we can’t tell whether this translates to mihawk being stronger since we don’t know how black blades work… At the very least, if you want to say that the strengthh he not the black blade doesn’t matter, that would mean this Ryuma feat is equal to Mihawk’s, not greater
second we can’t scale whatever dragon Ryuma cut to anything currently. The dragon Zoro cut in punk hazard is obviously too weak to be considered something that could “terrorize all of Wano”
keeping the WG out of Wano is as big a portrayal point as a Yonko putting up a flag on an island to declare it their territory so the government doesn’t attack it… this is demonstrated when it paralleled in the modern day when the new Ryuma of Wano, Luffy, puts his flag on Wano saying no one will bother Wano because of it… So since we can’t scale a feat from this, the best we can give Ryuma is Yonko level portrayal since Oda made a direct parallel to this with Yonko Luffy… Well then again, Yonko level has also already been given to Mihawk which again doesn’t really out Ryuma above him
so that’s it. As far as we can tell, there’s no real reason to arbitrarily claim Ryuma is stronger than mihawk and there is no feasible way of saying Zoro has surpassed Ryuma.
We will know Zoro has surpassed mihawk because he will defeat mihawk… How will we know Zoro has surpassed Ryuma? Will it because Zoro makes all 3 of his swords black? Okay but we don’t know whether that necessarily says anything about your strength. Both Ryuma and mihawk are one sword style users and so both of them have one black blade. How do we know they couldn’t make two black blades if they were two sword users?
There is no scale for the dragon Ryuma cut so Zoro isn’t going to be able to show he has surpassed that feat
Zoro is not going to single-handedly keep the WG out of Wano so he ain’t surpassing that
See? There’s obvious problems with this claim that Ryuma is suddenly Zoro’s benchmark when there is no in-story methods of Zoro even measuring himself to him
Ryuma’s feats are
1. Making a Shusui a black blade
2. Cutting the dragon that was terrorizing wano
3. Single-handedly keeping the entire WG out of Wano during his life time
First of all Since Mihawk made a STRONGER black blade than Ryuma did, we can’t tell whether this translates to mihawk being stronger since we don’t know how black blades work… At the very least, if you want to say that the strengthh he not the black blade doesn’t matter, that would mean this Ryuma feat is equal to Mihawk’s, not greater
second we can’t scale whatever dragon Ryuma cut to anything currently. The dragon Zoro cut in punk hazard is obviously too weak to be considered something that could “terrorize all of Wano”
keeping the WG out of Wano is as big a portrayal point as a Yonko putting up a flag on an island to declare it their territory so the government doesn’t attack it… this is demonstrated when it paralleled in the modern day when the new Ryuma of Wano, Luffy, puts his flag on Wano saying no one will bother Wano because of it… So since we can’t scale a feat from this, the best we can give Ryuma is Yonko level portrayal since Oda made a direct parallel to this with Yonko Luffy… Well then again, Yonko level has also already been given to Mihawk which again doesn’t really out Ryuma above him
so that’s it. As far as we can tell, there’s no real reason to arbitrarily claim Ryuma is stronger than mihawk and there is no feasible way of saying Zoro has surpassed Ryuma.
We will know Zoro has surpassed mihawk because he will defeat mihawk… How will we know Zoro has surpassed Ryuma? Will it because Zoro makes all 3 of his swords black? Okay but we don’t know whether that necessarily says anything about your strength. Both Ryuma and mihawk are one sword style users and so both of them have one black blade. How do we know they couldn’t make two black blades if they were two sword users?
There is no scale for the dragon Ryuma cut so Zoro isn’t going to be able to show he has surpassed that feat
Zoro is not going to single-handedly keep the WG out of Wano so he ain’t surpassing that
See? There’s obvious problems with this claim that Ryuma is suddenly Zoro’s benchmark when there is no in-story methods of Zoro even measuring himself to him
"The God of " is not an epithet. It's a declaration of the status of the person, no different than "The World's strongest." An epithet is used to describe the characteristics of a person like "Straw Hat, White beard, or "Hawk Eyes." "God of" is not a characteristic of someone, but a title bestowed upon them, indicating that there is no one above them, past or present.
Mihawk is nothing more than a silver medalist. He'll never reach the heights of those like Roger, Whitebeard, Ryuma, or Joyboy.
Mihawk is nothing more than a silver medalist. He'll never reach the heights of those like Roger, Whitebeard, Ryuma, or Joyboy.
@Date what?
the public as far as we know gets all its information from Morgans. Morgans is the one that started calling Roger the pirate king and the title was born from there. Morgans is the person the technically created the Pirate king title but Roger did in DO THE THING before Morgans created the title to call him
Roger did in fact find laugh tale. That is the definitive tangible feat that no one on the planet had ever achieved in like 1000 years. Roger conquered the sea by finding the last island. And then the public started calling Pirate king
when the narrator calls Mihawk the WSS, he is not repeating saying “the public calls him WSS”… The narrator is saying he is the WSS, and from there onwards the public starts saying he is WSS
We don’t know what Mihawk did to become WSS, since we don’t have a mihawk flashback, but Mihawk DID THE THING, and then the public started calling him WSS… when the narrator calls Mihawk WSS, they are referring to the fact that Mihawk DID THE THING, they aren’t referring the the public’s opinion on what Mihawk is
the public as far as we know gets all its information from Morgans. Morgans is the one that started calling Roger the pirate king and the title was born from there. Morgans is the person the technically created the Pirate king title but Roger did in DO THE THING before Morgans created the title to call him
Roger did in fact find laugh tale. That is the definitive tangible feat that no one on the planet had ever achieved in like 1000 years. Roger conquered the sea by finding the last island. And then the public started calling Pirate king
when the narrator calls Mihawk the WSS, he is not repeating saying “the public calls him WSS”… The narrator is saying he is the WSS, and from there onwards the public starts saying he is WSS
We don’t know what Mihawk did to become WSS, since we don’t have a mihawk flashback, but Mihawk DID THE THING, and then the public started calling him WSS… when the narrator calls Mihawk WSS, they are referring to the fact that Mihawk DID THE THING, they aren’t referring the the public’s opinion on what Mihawk is
Zoro's tangible goal is Mihawk. He's the benchmark presented in physical form, for Zoro to achieve. There is also the intangible goal that Oda has created through Ryuma. For years Oda has used the concept of Ryuma, and built Zoro's legacy around it. Everything that Zoro has been achieving, is no less than what Ryuma had achieved. Zoro has been saying since he was a child, that "His name will reach the Heavens." Now all of a sudden, Ryuma's status in the World, was elevated to "The GOD of the Blade." With all the parallels Oda has made between the two characters over the years, I have no clue how people can disregard this similarity, and not reach the conclusion that this is what Zoro will ultimately be known as, by the end of the series.
Because Shanks, Garling, Kaido, Venus reached their peak and couldnt reach the strength required to beat Mihawk.
That's why the frog from the small pond had high hopes placed on his shoulders when he took Death over defeat.
Show me in manga proof of your headcanon. Prove that Sword God is a title.
Roger, Whitebeard, Ryuma and Joyboy had haki too weak to forge the strongest weapon in the world.
It doesnt belong to any of them, not to Godheads either, not to Imu but to Mihawk and is a result of his haki.
Hard to digest but will be swalllowed soon enough.
That's why the frog from the small pond had high hopes placed on his shoulders when he took Death over defeat.
Show me in manga proof of your headcanon. Prove that Sword God is a title.
Roger, Whitebeard, Ryuma and Joyboy had haki too weak to forge the strongest weapon in the world.
It doesnt belong to any of them, not to Godheads either, not to Imu but to Mihawk and is a result of his haki.
Hard to digest but will be swalllowed soon enough.
Because Shanks, Garling, Kaido, Venus reached their peak and couldnt reach the strength required to beat Mihawk.
That's why the frog from the small pond had high hopes placed on his shoulders when he took Death over defeat.
Show me in manga proof of your headcanon. Prove that Sword God is a title.
Roger, Whitebeard, Ryuma and Joyboy had haki too weak to forge the strongest weapon in the world.
It doesnt belong to any of them, not to Godheads either, not to Imu but to Mihawk and is a result of his haki.
Hard to digest but will be swalllowed soon enough.
That's why the frog from the small pond had high hopes placed on his shoulders when he took Death over defeat.
Show me in manga proof of your headcanon. Prove that Sword God is a title.
Roger, Whitebeard, Ryuma and Joyboy had haki too weak to forge the strongest weapon in the world.
It doesnt belong to any of them, not to Godheads either, not to Imu but to Mihawk and is a result of his haki.
Hard to digest but will be swalllowed soon enough.
I'm going to love it when the day comes when your camp receives the second biggest L in manga history, when Oda reveals how Black Blades are actually forged.
And what do you mean prove it's a title? The proof is in the wording, Lmao.....
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Wouldnt Strongest Swordsman in the World be a title like Most Beatifull Woman, World Strongest Creature, etc. While Sword God is a epiteth like Pirate Empress, King of the Bests, etc?
So the logic would be to compare "Sword God" with "Hawk Eyes".
This seems to be a thing only the english community dont get, as in most languages there's a clear difference between those concepts.
Dont know the language enough to really get if title, epiteth, alias, sobriquet and nickname have real differences in english, but as they are different words they must have.
So the logic would be to compare "Sword God" with "Hawk Eyes".
This seems to be a thing only the english community dont get, as in most languages there's a clear difference between those concepts.
Dont know the language enough to really get if title, epiteth, alias, sobriquet and nickname have real differences in english, but as they are different words they must have.
@Konstantis
I mean you can headcanon what you want but obviously even if we are to consider your headcanon there are problems
for example, how does Mihawk know who the Real WSS is? What you are describing is that Mihawk knows Nasujuro is stronger than him, but how does he know Nasujuro is WSS? How does he know Nasujuro is stronger than Garling? Does he know Imu exists? We saw Imu with a a sword that one time, what if Imu is a swordsman? Then what? Also since Mihawk knows Nasujuro is stronger than him and yet has been lying about being the strongest, doesn’t that open up the chance that he also knows other people are stronger than him? Like Shanks? And of course how does he know Nasujuro is stronger than Shanks?
see the problem? In fact what if there is simply someone stronger than Mihawk, Shanks, and Nasujuro just somewhere in the world just chilling. Like they are intentionally not getting involved any shit. They are not marines, pirates or revolutionaries. They are just regular citizens somewhere in the world doing nothing basically. You’re gonna say that’s impossible but Fujitora and Greenbull exist. There are in fact random top tiers sitting around the world not involved in any of the major factions of the world. So what’s stopping the real real REAL WSS from just being some random offscreen guy?
the moment the story or characters start lying about who the WSS is, it opens a can of worms that will forever taint Zoro’s dream. Like there will forever never be any definitive way of proving Zoro has achieved his dream if we introduce the idea that there is a fake version of his goal
there is no fake pirate king. There is no fake all blue. There is no fake void history. There is no fake cure all medicine. Oda has not introduced the idea that the strawhats can achieve fake versions of their goals or that their goals are lies to begin with.
What Oda has done is give characters goals they care about above their dreams. Luffy has a secret dream abofe pirate king… All the strawhats would technically give up their lives for Luffy to achieve his dream… Luffy too would give up his life for his crew… most of the strawhats barely care about their dreams from arc to arc really and mostly just care about the immediate arc problem they are faced with
what Oda does is change the priorities and wants of strawhats. He has never just directly invalidated the strawhats’ dreams and he never will.
the last decent argument regarding Zoro’s dream was that Oda had changed Zoro’s dream. That Zoro’s dream had actually changed from wanting to be WSS to just being “Luffy’s right hand man” and of course the problem with that argument is that Zoro is not Luffy’s right hand man and has never claimed to want to be. Zoro is not the RHM, or Vice captain, or First mate… and he probably will never
I mean you can headcanon what you want but obviously even if we are to consider your headcanon there are problems
for example, how does Mihawk know who the Real WSS is? What you are describing is that Mihawk knows Nasujuro is stronger than him, but how does he know Nasujuro is WSS? How does he know Nasujuro is stronger than Garling? Does he know Imu exists? We saw Imu with a a sword that one time, what if Imu is a swordsman? Then what? Also since Mihawk knows Nasujuro is stronger than him and yet has been lying about being the strongest, doesn’t that open up the chance that he also knows other people are stronger than him? Like Shanks? And of course how does he know Nasujuro is stronger than Shanks?
see the problem? In fact what if there is simply someone stronger than Mihawk, Shanks, and Nasujuro just somewhere in the world just chilling. Like they are intentionally not getting involved any shit. They are not marines, pirates or revolutionaries. They are just regular citizens somewhere in the world doing nothing basically. You’re gonna say that’s impossible but Fujitora and Greenbull exist. There are in fact random top tiers sitting around the world not involved in any of the major factions of the world. So what’s stopping the real real REAL WSS from just being some random offscreen guy?
the moment the story or characters start lying about who the WSS is, it opens a can of worms that will forever taint Zoro’s dream. Like there will forever never be any definitive way of proving Zoro has achieved his dream if we introduce the idea that there is a fake version of his goal
there is no fake pirate king. There is no fake all blue. There is no fake void history. There is no fake cure all medicine. Oda has not introduced the idea that the strawhats can achieve fake versions of their goals or that their goals are lies to begin with.
What Oda has done is give characters goals they care about above their dreams. Luffy has a secret dream abofe pirate king… All the strawhats would technically give up their lives for Luffy to achieve his dream… Luffy too would give up his life for his crew… most of the strawhats barely care about their dreams from arc to arc really and mostly just care about the immediate arc problem they are faced with
what Oda does is change the priorities and wants of strawhats. He has never just directly invalidated the strawhats’ dreams and he never will.
the last decent argument regarding Zoro’s dream was that Oda had changed Zoro’s dream. That Zoro’s dream had actually changed from wanting to be WSS to just being “Luffy’s right hand man” and of course the problem with that argument is that Zoro is not Luffy’s right hand man and has never claimed to want to be. Zoro is not the RHM, or Vice captain, or First mate… and he probably will never
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We literally know how Black Blade is forged, through haki, because Mihawk said it back in Baratie.
>Take your will(haki) and surpass this blade.
It is completely normal that everyone else failed to do it because everyone else is not the peak that awaits for Zoro.
There are no Ls in my camp when it comes to Mihawk's and Zoro's strength being second to nobody.
Meanwhile, the Anti-Zolo pirates are taking L after L, hoping X, Y or Z would be stronger than Mihawk.
It didnt work in the past, it wont work in the future. Make peace with it.
God of Blade aint a title and you talk about how we ignore the story... You are the one who ignores it...
>Take your will(haki) and surpass this blade.
It is completely normal that everyone else failed to do it because everyone else is not the peak that awaits for Zoro.
There are no Ls in my camp when it comes to Mihawk's and Zoro's strength being second to nobody.
Meanwhile, the Anti-Zolo pirates are taking L after L, hoping X, Y or Z would be stronger than Mihawk.
It didnt work in the past, it wont work in the future. Make peace with it.
God of Blade aint a title and you talk about how we ignore the story... You are the one who ignores it...
Wss title not given by fictional people who are in the story nor from Mihawks himself.. that's author's desicion as he decided laugh tale as last island also.. it could be kamabakka or elbaf too.. whats important is the goal to fulfill rather than names.. if people dont like it , lets make a pool and declare the winner as wss between us.. in the end its mihawk or another .. At eos all swordsmen in the story will be bitch of Zoro including , ryuma , roger , ray , nasu etc etc
We literally know how Black Blade is forged, through haki, because Mihawk said it back in Baratie.
>Take your will(haki) and surpass this blade.
It is completely normal that everyone else failed to do it because everyone else is not the peak that awaits for Zoro.
There are no Ls in my camp when it comes to Mihawk's and Zoro's strength being second to nobody.
Meanwhile, the Anti-Zolo pirates are taking L after L, hoping X, Y or Z would be stronger than Mihawk.
It didnt work in the past, it wont work in the future. Make peace with it.
God of Blade aint a title and you talk about how we ignore the story... You are the one who ignores it...
>Take your will(haki) and surpass this blade.
It is completely normal that everyone else failed to do it because everyone else is not the peak that awaits for Zoro.
There are no Ls in my camp when it comes to Mihawk's and Zoro's strength being second to nobody.
Meanwhile, the Anti-Zolo pirates are taking L after L, hoping X, Y or Z would be stronger than Mihawk.
It didnt work in the past, it wont work in the future. Make peace with it.
God of Blade aint a title and you talk about how we ignore the story... You are the one who ignores it...
WSM, WSC, Imu... Pick whoever you want.
None of them have managed to forge their weapon into the strongest in the world.
Mihawk did because his haki is stronger than everyone's.
The embarrassment will indeed be biblical when entirety of fandom realizes they have been wrong the entire time, except for handful few.
None of them have managed to forge their weapon into the strongest in the world.
Mihawk did because his haki is stronger than everyone's.
The embarrassment will indeed be biblical when entirety of fandom realizes they have been wrong the entire time, except for handful few.
That's makes zero sence. Mihawk fought as equel against two handed Shanks but never faced Garling. SO unless this is duel to death he can't be really sure that he is somehow stronger then Shanks for example. He need to kill his opponent to prove othervise and that's much better decision then waiting for scrub grow up.
Again, my point here is that Mihawk wanted to train someone who can surpass himm to have a chance in defeating real WSS Venus.
Actually not, Mihawk is not lying, case Venus is a god, not a human. Venus is probably from Void Centuary, case he was born in Wano. He is probably Ryuma's grandgrand father.
Mihawk probably faced him for once and saw absolutely annomal difference in Haki and power, that he decided to find someone who can surpass him and have a little chance against God of Sword.
Again, my point here is that Mihawk wanted to train someone who can surpass himm to have a chance in defeating real WSS Venus.
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Actually not, Mihawk is not lying, case Venus is a god, not a human. Venus is probably from Void Centuary, case he was born in Wano. He is probably Ryuma's grandgrand father.
Mihawk probably faced him for once and saw absolutely annomal difference in Haki and power, that he decided to find someone who can surpass him and have a little chance against God of Sword.