Chapter Discussion Dragon not going makes sense, Kuma not going is absurd

[Tripod]

For 2 years Ginny was kidnapped; and then caught the eye of a CD and was thus arranged to be a bride

Dragon; as the head of a worldwide organization; is well aware of the sacrifices that need to be made as a leader and cannot deem one person as more important than another. Holistically, this is consistent with his being an absent father as well…
Attempting to save Ginny is essentially risking everything he’d built up to that point when in his mind; he planned to save all of the slaves in the holy land; some of whom have it waay harder than a royal bride probably would…



Kuma on the other hand missed me
His decisions have been questionable for a while
I blamed Klap for understanding his position in the world, and yet still going on to start a family he couldn’t protect. As a Buccaneer; this was naive and selfish of him, and he paid the price.

As for Kuma; electing not to marry Ginny as a means of keeping her safe was rendered completely redundant as soon as they both went on to join a militia set to directly oppose the largest militarized organization head on.
Not to mention Kuma being far more equipped at protecting a family for multiple different reasons
Then for 2 years, with the ABILITY TO TELEPORT, he didn’t even attempt to reach out???
It would be fair if he was just following orders and set on furthering the cause despite his girl getting snagged; so he didn’t go after her, but this is once again made redundant because he goes on to quit the Revo’s as a means of “living without regret” not much later on…

None of this is to talk down on Kuma’s chratacter writing or how Oda handled the backstory; but as for Kuma’s ideals as an individual; I strongly disagree with a lot of his most important decisions
Still a great character tho and maybe the best flashback in cannon

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

For 2 years Ginny was kidnapped; and then caught the eye of a CD and was thus arranged to be a bride

Dragon; as the head of a worldwide organization; is well aware of the sacrifices that need to be made as a leader and cannot deem one person as more important than another. Holistically, this is consistent with his being an absent father as well…
Attempting to save Ginny is essentially risking everything he’d built up to that point when in his mind; he planned to save all of the slaves in the holy land; some of whom have it waay harder than a royal bride probably would…



Kuma on the other hand missed me
His decisions have been questionable for a while
I blamed Klap for understanding his position in the world, and yet still going on to start a family he couldn’t protect. As a Buccaneer; this was naive and selfish of him, and he paid the price.

As for Kuma; electing not to marry Ginny as a means of keeping her safe was rendered completely redundant as soon as they both went on to join a militia set to directly oppose the largest militarized organization head on.
Not to mention Kuma being far more equipped at protecting a family for multiple different reasons
Then for 2 years, with the ABILITY TO TELEPORT, he didn’t even attempt to reach out???
It would be fair if he was just following orders and set on furthering the cause despite his girl getting snagged; so he didn’t go after her, but this is once again made redundant because he goes on to quit the Revo’s as a means of “living without regret” not much later on…

None of this is to talk down on Kuma’s chratacter writing or how Oda handled the backstory; but as for Kuma’s ideals as an individual; I strongly disagree with a lot of his most important decisions
Still a great character tho and maybe the best flashback in cannon

The Revos didn't have much influence around the time Ginny was kidnapped. Even their recent infiltration of marygeoise was dangerous and had to be prepared and planned. What are people expecting?

 

[Tripod]

The Revos didn't have much influence around the time Ginny was kidnapped. Even their recent infiltration of marygeoise was dangerous and had to be prepared and planned. What are people expecting?

I’m expecting a dude that would be shaking and crying over losing someone to at the very least reach out to them if they had the ability to teleport

The revolutionaries not going after her makes sense; they wanna save everyone
Kuma is her love interest; way different

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

I’m expecting a dude that would be shaking and crying over losing someone to at the very least reach out to them if they had the ability to teleport

How exactly dies his fruit work? Does he have to be familiar win the target location or at least know where to look for her?

 

[Malakhith]

Kuma is almost a giant and not even a little capable of sneaking around. If he suddenly appeared in the Holy Land chances are that he would be captured/killed or forced to escape in no time. Remember that the Holy Land is incredible huge.

To teleport he would need to know, at a minimum, where she is in the city. Then he could try a hit and run tactic. Notice that, as soon as he learned where she was he didn't wait.

The issue here is that dragon should be able to access this information for him. I assume he didn't because kuma was too valuble to risk losing.

 

[Tripod]

How exactly dies his fruit work? Does he have to be familiar win the target location or at least know where to look for her?

Well he sent Luffy to an island that he, as a male; couldn’t be very familiar with.. so I think he can get fairly specific without having even been there before
As a 9 year old he saved 500+ slaves with the ability

If he could go up there and look around it’s not like he doesn’t have a get out of jail free card… shit leave a radio and it’s almost like she isn’t a pro wire tapper…

 

[HA001]

Yeah everyone gassing kuma he a bitch

 

[Tripod]

Kuma is almost a giant and not even a little capable of sneaking around. If he suddenly appeared in the Holy Land chances are that he would be captured/killed or forced to escape in no time. Remember that the Holy Land is incredible huge.

To teleport he would need to know, at a minimum, where she is in the city. Then he could try a hit and run tactic. Notice that, as soon as he learned where she was he didn't wait.

The issue here is that dragon should be able to access this information for him. I assume he didn't because kuma was too valuble to risk losing.

I agree that he’s huge, but we’re still ignoring his ability to get out of danger at a moments notice
And then Fisher tiger(a slave who’d seen the holy land just as Kuma had) was comfortable enough to go back and somehow still survive… by feats no one there but a top tier could even worry Kuma

 

[Malakhith]

I agree that he’s huge, but we’re still ignoring his ability to get out of danger at a moments notice
And then Fisher tiger(a slave who’d seen the holy land just as Kuma had) was comfortable enough to go back and somehow still survive… by feats no one there but a top tier could even worry Kuma

The issue is not getting out of danger. The issue is a high profile rev member suddenly appearing in the holy land where another high profile member is captured. Think about it for a second: without the ability to sneak or even be sure where Ginny is he would be acting blindly and would not be able to accomplish anything. Worse yet, he would give the marines the information that Ginny is important which could increase the security or even risk her being killed for causing trouble (and lowering the chances of her escaping successfully alone)

And Fisher Tiger was a badass. The more we learn about the story, the more impressive his feat is.

 

[Tripod]

The issue is not getting out of danger. The issue is a high profile rev member suddenly appearing in the holy land where another high profile member is captured. Think about it for a second: without the ability to sneak or even be sure where Ginny is he would be acting blindly and would not be able to accomplish anything. Worse yet, he would give the marines the information that Ginny is important which could increase the security or even risk her being killed for causing trouble (and lowering the chances of her escaping successfully alone)

And Fisher Tiger was a badass. The more we learn about the story, the more impressive his feat is.

You’re giving a dude who likely has the attention span of charlos too much credit
These people are livestock to the CD’s, if anyone is paying that close attention it’s likely not someone who can make the call to get rid of someone else’s wife

And robo Kuma climbed the whole red line unconscious
Fisher tiger did it and they didn’t start killing fishmen
Put on a bear costume and go save your girl bro, all these rationalizations are the reason Kuma’s a pussy and will die a cucked virgin who raised his own Op’s daughter

 

[Malakhith]

You’re giving a dude who likely has the attention span of charlos too much credit
These people are livestock to the CD’s, if anyone is paying that close attention it’s likely not someone who can make the call to get rid of someone else’s wife

Again, he would be teleport in a random place in the city. People would care.

And robo Kuma climbed the whole red line unconscious

And was noticed and intercepted.

Fisher tiger did it and they didn’t start killing fishmen

The issue wasn't killing fishmen but putting more risk on Ginny and lowering her chances of escaping.

You plan basically seems to be: appear randomly in the city as a giant, hope all the CDs suddenly don't care about the giant Kuma and start looking to someone in the harem of a random CD in a huge city. All that without being intercepted by a high grade marine or a holy knight. The fact that you can escape (doubtful if the admirals act together and there's no PIS) don't mean that you can accomplish shit.

Look, I actually agree with you that Kuma alone could rescue Ginny. I just think is retarded to hope that randomly teleportation to a huge city would accomplish anything. Kuma would need, at minimum, a idea of where she was. Even the name of the CD that captured her would be something. He had nothing. Like I said, as soon as he had a location he did go to where she was.

Put on a bear costume and go save your girl bro

Where? With which CD? In what part of the city?

all these rationalizations are the reason Kuma’s a pussy and will die a cucked virgin who raised his own Op’s daughter

Nah

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Kuma just climbed the entirety of the Red Line and was bombarded nonstop the entire way. I'm not sure if a living, pain-feeling Kuma is going to be able to make that journey.

But even if he is, he's now looking at an admiral, potentially Garlic and other forces inbetween him and the slave population (where Ginny is, somewhere).

I like to dunk on Dragon but there realistically is no feasible way for them to break into Mary Geose at that moment.

 

[Tripod]

Again, he would be teleport in a random place in the city. People would care.


And was noticed and intercepted.


The issue wasn't killing fishmen but putting more risk on Ginny and lowering her chances of escaping.

You plan basically seems to be: appear randomly in the city as a giant, hope all the CDs suddenly don't care about the giant Kuma and start looking to someone in the harem of a random CD in a huge city. All that without being intercepted by a high grade marine or a holy knight. The fact that you can escape (doubtful if the admirals act together and there's no PIS) don't mean that you can accomplish shit.

Look, I actually agree with you that Kuma alone could rescue Ginny. I just think is retarded to hope that randomly teleportation to a huge city would accomplish anything. Kuma would need, at minimum, a idea of where she was. Even the name of the CD that captured her would be something. He had nothing. Like I said, as soon as he had a location he did go to where she was.


Where? With which CD? In what part of the city?



Nah

Where are you getting this random spot in the city thing from?
Why can’t he choose where to go? He had precision when he went back to the church
And he’s been there before and presumably works in reconnaissance regularly as a revo
There’s only 20 families to choose from and it’s not like Ginny wouldn’t catch on and help if needed
Simply leaving behind the revos symbol somewhere visible or something specific to their relationship so she’d be on guard to try and help leave a trail would eventually suffice over the course of 2 years

And I just flat out disagree; no PIS and IMO he can casually evade Admirals or Garling alike, he did so with half a face and 1 leg after he decided it was pointless to stand face to face with Akainu; could’ve just done that immediately
Realistically; he doesn’t even need to walk, just keep teleporting around

Even by feats his combat speed scales to Ray and Kizaru

Post automatically merged: Nov 12, 2023

Kuma just climbed the entirety of the Red Line and was bombarded nonstop the entire way. I'm not sure if a living, pain-feeling Kuma is going to be able to make that journey.

But even if he is, he's now looking at an admiral, potentially Garlic and other forces inbetween him and the slave population (where Ginny is, somewhere).

I like to dunk on Dragon but there realistically is no feasible way for them to break into Mary Geose at that moment.

I just don’t see how Fisher tiger did it then when he couldn’t even teleport
Kuma is is arguably at the peak of high tier anyway; he doesn’t need to defeat any of the higher tier members to gain info and live and come back later

My issue is that there literally seems to have been no effort put in at all

Which begs the question; was Kuma a willing cuck.. and the answer is yes

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Which begs the question; was Kuma a willing cuck.. and the answer is yes

Disgusting

 

[Tripod]

Disgusting

I’d rather die

 

[TheWillOfD]

Kuma was once the CDs' slave, so it would make sense if he felt too afraid or powerless to be able to break Ginny out.

 

[Malakhith]

Where are you getting this random spot in the city thing from?
Why can’t he choose where to go? He had precision when he went back to the church

It was stated that he does not know where she was. So if he teleported to the city it would be in a random spot.

And he’s been there before and presumably works in reconnaissance regularly as a revo

No. He was in the frontlines. It was actually show that he was fighting like a madman.

There’s only 20 families to choose from and it’s not like Ginny wouldn’t catch on and help if needed

We actually don't know how many members each family has. How many houses each member has and where they are in the city. Fuck, I'm poor as fuck in Brazil and I have more than one property. It would actually be very weird for people that live in luxury (in the view of the French during the Revolution) to not have more than one home, if only to entertain the guests. Think a little. That's why I stated that they needed at least the name of the CD that took her to try to guess without risking the hostage.
Even Charlos had 30 and he was still under his father. You assume that she had liberties and was not under lock and key.

Simply leaving behind the revos symbol somewhere visible or something specific to their relationship so she’d be on guard to try and help leave a trail would eventually suffice over the course of 2 years

What part of being a slave in a harem gave you the idea that she could walk around freely in the city? Usually woman in harem aren't allowed to leave the house freely and even, in some cultures, have contact with people outside of their master and eunuchs.

And I just flat out disagree; no PIS and IMO he can casually evade Admirals or Garling alike, he did so with half a face and 1 leg after he decided it was pointless to stand face to face with Akainu; could’ve just done that immediately

You don't think it was PIS that Akainu missed his attacks point blank? Are you sane?
Look, you think that Kuma can sneak around in a city without drawing attention and gathering intel? Ok.
I already stated my point of view and frankly have no desire to argue with someone that thinks that finding a single slave in a huge city without intel is a piece of cake.

 

[Drachenblut]

You all don't understand it, do you? Not everyone is a shonen protagonist. Not everyone can always pull up what luffy does. Because then everyone would be nika, would be joyboy. Oda entirely shows THIS.

Post automatically merged: Nov 12, 2023

Everyone failed here and there, roger, garp, wb, xebec, shanks, sengoku etc. And also dragon and kuma

 

[ThunderSupernova]

For 2 years Ginny was kidnapped; and then caught the eye of a CD and was thus arranged to be a bride

Dragon; as the head of a worldwide organization; is well aware of the sacrifices that need to be made as a leader and cannot deem one person as more important than another. Holistically, this is consistent with his being an absent father as well…
Attempting to save Ginny is essentially risking everything he’d built up to that point when in his mind; he planned to save all of the slaves in the holy land; some of whom have it waay harder than a royal bride probably would…



Kuma on the other hand missed me
His decisions have been questionable for a while
I blamed Klap for understanding his position in the world, and yet still going on to start a family he couldn’t protect. As a Buccaneer; this was naive and selfish of him, and he paid the price.

As for Kuma; electing not to marry Ginny as a means of keeping her safe was rendered completely redundant as soon as they both went on to join a militia set to directly oppose the largest militarized organization head on.
Not to mention Kuma being far more equipped at protecting a family for multiple different reasons
Then for 2 years, with the ABILITY TO TELEPORT, he didn’t even attempt to reach out???
It would be fair if he was just following orders and set on furthering the cause despite his girl getting snagged; so he didn’t go after her, but this is once again made redundant because he goes on to quit the Revo’s as a means of “living without regret” not much later on…

None of this is to talk down on Kuma’s chratacter writing or how Oda handled the backstory; but as for Kuma’s ideals as an individual; I strongly disagree with a lot of his most important decisions
Still a great character tho and maybe the best flashback in cannon

Yeah Kuma literally has a DF tailored for such a situation
Come on if Lafitte could enter Mary Geoise and Fisher Tiger could literally attack it and free countless slaves it's not possible that Kuma couldn't do anything

It's clearly plot
And a bad one also

Though one could also argue that Lafitte entering Mary Geoise and Average Vice Admiral-level Fisher Tiger successfully attacking it, would be the real plot
As actually with Holy Knights and Garling around, not to mention the Five Elders
This makes even less sense than Kuma and Dragon not going

Dragon remains a fraud and an awful character though

 

[ShinichiMugi]

About Kuma's father: you say it was selfish by him to start a family,knowing he is a Bucaneer. But honestly: if every Bucaneer would think like this,they would be extinct,and wouldnt that be basically "giving up" against the World Government,deleting their own race? It wouldnt be good imho.
About Ginny,i think there is a "plot induced stupidity" by Oda. When Ginny was a kid,she managed to steal the Den Den Mushi and call the pirates to tell them to go to God Valley. When she was an adult,and with a training received by the Revolutionary Army,she didnt manage to find a way to comunicate with Kuma and co. for 2 years? Mh its kinda forced.