Improving Discussions, less toxicity

[Sievas]

I am not long here yet on WG, but I noticed a few things I want to talk about with everyone and especially towards the mods/admins of this forum.

It is about the prevalent trolling, wanking, bashing, and in general toxicity of this forum. All in all this place feels nice and active but I feel like most activity stems from people clashing against each other and make fun of each other. It often feels like there's not much room for a proper discussion because once you mention specific characters you need to be ready to receive a backlash on it or be insulted because of it.

I don't want to say that being a fan of something or someone is bad, but sometimes it feels like people go too far and it really doesn't help improving discussions. There is missing some organization and clearance for this place to make it more user friendly since I think a lot of users would love to engage more in proper discussions if others let them do that. There are threads and discussions that are more serious, such as the OP News subforum or single threads that aren't about specific characters. But still a great part of this place is very toxic.

If some of you now say "then just leave and look for another place", or "quit whining you pussy" etc., then you're probably part of the problem. And I know that a lot of users here come originally from OJ and it was not as toxic as this place here. I know people can lead proper conversations and not bitch at each other like immature brats. The thing this forum is lacking is proper rules and etiquette. It doesn't mean you're not allowed to pull jokes or have fun. But there is definitely a lack of respect and order.

WG often feels like a hole full of wankers and trollers. And it's sad to see such a big community, the OP community to look that immature and toxic. Yes, opinions can be different, yes, they can split and clash, but it should still be possible to not be accused of something just because of that.

Mods, Admins, please do something about it.

I am sure even if some people now say "but we've got all right to say what we want" and "you just don't want us to have fun". I am pretty sure we've all come together to enjoy One Piece, and not trash talk the story, characters and even its readers and parts of the community. You can still have fun, you can still enjoy discussions. But the toxicity is ruining this lovely community that I know has way more to offer than ignorant wankers and trollers who shit on people that just try to lead serious discussions about their favorite manga.

Thanks for listening to my rant, if you're gonna shit on me now, it's useless to answer. Because it shows that you don't see the problem and the occurring stress that is being caused by reading discussions that are 90% toxic, because you are the problem that I am calling out against. Sure, opinions may split. But if you plan on down talking me, it just means that I am right and you're unable to lead a proper discussion with a user who is serious for once.

 

[Adam 🍎]

I love shit talking, god knows i did so much of it on OJ. But some boundries need to be set otherwise the same cycle of trolls vs mods will come up again and again until it cracks the forum

 

[Dark Hound]

You’re totally right. Trolling and wanking might be fun but too much is toxic, and there is a lot of toxicity here.
And serious discussions should be more prevalent.

 

[MD Zolo]

Thanks for listening to my rant, if you're gonna shit on me now, it's useless to answer. Because it shows that you don't see the problem and the occurring stress that is being caused by reading discussions that are 90% toxic, because you are the problem that I am calling out against.

You may have written this with good intention, but you don't see how this (or any other) forum works. People who you deem as problematic (and some of them are) are the ones who want to discuss most. These people won't agree with each other, but that doesn't mean they can't get along. Most of them get along quite well.

WG often feels like a hole full of wankers and trollers. And it's sad to see such a big community, the OP community to look that immature and toxic.

I was in OJ. And OJ ended disgracefully. This place was designed to prevent the same holier-than-thou attitude shown by OJ leadership. It has plenty of wankers and trolls but they have a symbiotic relationship, which is really important.

And I know that a lot of users here come originally from OJ and it was not as toxic as this place here. I know people can lead proper conversations and not bitch at each other like immature brats. The thing this forum is lacking is proper rules and etiquette.

The Forum maintains similar set of rules as OJ. Again, as far as I can see, following in OJ's footstep is the worse thing that can happen to this forum. Because ultimately OJ failed.

Ultimately, this forum (in my opinion) was Developed to be more friendly to the users and not an authoritarian dictatorship. Unfortunately, the drawback of this has always been the abuse of the system by many users.

But in my opinion, the forum should always provide an avenue for the tried and tested users.

 

[Master OF Haki]

Well, there's a way to make discussion less toxic, just black all Zoro fanboys and the problem will disappear by itself.

 

[Sievas]

I love shit talking, god knows i did so much of it on OJ. But some boundries need to be set otherwise the same cycle of trolls vs mods will come up again and again until it cracks the forum

Shit talking is good when it is in limited amount and not always prevalent, that is true.

You’re totally right. Trolling and wanking might be fun but too much is toxic, and there is a lot of toxicity here.
And serious discussions should be more prevalent.

Thanks for agreeing with me, mate!

You may have written this with good intention, but you don't see how this (or any other) forum works. People who you deem as problematic (and some of them are) are the ones who want to discuss most. These people won't agree with each other, but that doesn't mean they can't get along. Most of them get along quite well.

I've been on multiple forums and people managed to behave and enjoy serious discussions. Sure some of you get along well, but some who really just want to have people to discuss properly are being left behind here because they receive all the trolling and bashing as well once they say something someone doesn't like.

I was in OJ. And OJ ended disgracefully. This place was designed to prevent the same holier-than-thou attitude shown by OJ leadership. It has plenty of wankers and trolls but they have a symbiotic relationship, which is really important.

Yes, OJ had its problems as well but I still felt that the mods there did a lot of work to keep that place in check.

The Forum maintains similar set of rules as OJ. Again, as far as I can see, following in OJ's footstep is the worse thing that can happen to this forum. Because ultimately OJ failed.

Ultimately, this forum (in my opinion) was Developed to be more friendly to the users and not an authoritarian dictatorship. Unfortunately, the drawback of this has always been the abuse of the system by many users.

But in my opinion, the forum should always provide an avenue for the tried and tested users.

I never said WG should follow OJs footsteps. I don't say that there should be an "authoritarian dictatorship" or that mods should ban/remove certain people and be "ruling" here. The point I am trying to bring across is that people lack respect for each other and and also a lack of proper discussions caused by tocxicity. It feels like this forum is a place of anarchy where people do what they want and where's no order in things. People are at each other's throats and insulting each other and nothing is being done. And even if both parties "see it as fun", things have gotten out of control and that's sad. Especially for people who want to enjoy proper discussions and can't do so because of others.

Well, there's a way to make discussion less toxic, just black all Zoro fanboys and the problem will disappear by itself.

Here we are. I don't think pointing fingers helps at this point. It's not just Zoro fanboys, or Sanji fanboys. It is in general the whole community that has a problem with toxicity and those who wish for a proper discussion end up creating groups in private conversations to escape the toxic hell that is present in this forum. And that shouldn't be the case.

 

[Chessaddict]

What you wish for is a online utopian,and we all know that ain't happening.You makes severall assumptions to discourage people from disagreeing with you and refrain from replying.Already a bad start if your intention is to make positive changes.
You can't enforce what you personally believe on other people,let alone a whole WG community.The "toxicity" is part of the community so by attempting to eliminate it you are essentially getting rid of the majority of it,leaving only the "selected" fews who you consider to be overall beneficial to the community.
I'd like to say my exprerience with WG has been wonderful,although i have used profanities one too many times and have had other cussed at me,i enjoy being a part of this community.The toxicity is neglectible,for me,at least.

Well, there's a way to make discussion less toxic, just black all Zoro fanboys and the problem will disappear by itself.

Bruh,this is just wrong and immature.(I can't tell if you're joking)

 

[K!NG HARA$H!MA]

a proper discussion end up creating groups in private conversations to escape the toxic hell that is present in this forum. And that shouldn't be the case.

Did this really happened?

 

[MD Zolo]

I've been on multiple forums and people managed to behave and enjoy serious discussions. Sure some of you get along well, but some who really just want to have people to discuss properly are being left behind here because they receive all the trolling and bashing as well once they say something someone doesn't like.

Well...I don't think good users are bullied here at all. The trolling, wanking and the bashing is reserved for specific people. There are some fans from each side who likes to troll fans of other sides. These fans get trolled on and bashed by each other.

Nobody trolls/bullies/bashes Jew D. Boy, Finalbeta, Akai2, EtenBoby and so on. A user only gets trolled when the said user makes controversial posts.

The point I am trying to bring across is that people lack respect for each other and and also a lack of proper discussions caused by tocxicity.

Again, lack of respect is reserved among specific people who have been at it for years. And even then, the "lack of respect" is "apparent" because deep down, they still talk to each other. It is just how they do things.

And even if both parties "see it as fun", things have gotten out of control and that's sad. Especially for people who want to enjoy proper discussions and can't do so because of others.

You can always have good discussions. There is no need to respond to discussions that have been going on till time immemorial.

Well, there's a way to make discussion less toxic, just black all Zoro fanboys and the problem will disappear by itself.

Hmm... Well then. Then Mods should get a trial run. Ban all Zoro fans for two weeks and see how it goes. If I remember correctly, it didn't do anything for OJ, but hey!! Second time's the charm.

 

[critical mindset]

Bruh,this is just wrong and immature.(I can't tell if you're joking)

You get props for being among the Zoro fans that are reasonable and level-headed. There are other fans who harassed a certain user here for months with PMs and messages, and the guy just left bc of the toxicity of some of the Zoro fans. ONe of the best posters had to leave (he was busy in his life as well) but couldn't stand this forum bc of how certain Zoro bois behave themselves. No Sanji fans have ever done this ever I can bet my account on it

 

[Sievas]

What you wish for is a online utopian,and we all know that ain't happening.You makes severall assumptions to discourage people from disagreeing with you and refrain from replying.Already a bad start if your intention is to make positive changes.

I am not saying the forum has to be perfect. What I am saying is, it is just too much. And I am aware of making assumptions but if people just want to shit at me anyway for speaking out, I can also warn them that it's useless because it doesn't help bringing across the topic I am talking about. But of course they are free to answer, but as it is, it would just prove me right.

You can't enforce what you personally believe on other people,let alone a whole WG community.The "toxicity" is part of the community so by attempting to eliminate it you are essentially getting rid of the majority of it,leaving only the "selected" fews who you consider to be overall beneficial to the community.
I'd like to say my exprerience with WG has been wonderful,although i have used profanities one too many times and have had other cussed at me,i enjoy being a part of this community.The toxicity is neglectible,for me,at least.

I said that I didn't want the "shitposting" to absolutely end. I am saying it should be restricted, and that I wish for people to be more mature when talking. That is not difficult and it doesn't exclude anyone. It isn't that difficult to properly argue or write whole sentences or not insult someone because someone makes a statement. That is all I want. That when I say "I really liked how Zoro fought against XY", that people will not answer with "pfff *insert three emote* are you dumb, this marimo fought against fodder only and he's already panting like a weakling, fodder >>> zolo *insert another emote*"

Did this really happened?

Yes, I am in one private conversation with multiple people because we look for proper discussions.

A user only gets trolled when the said user makes controversial posts.

And who decides if someone makes a controversial post or not? If not just the person who wants to troll and thus answers, even if it is actually meant as an actual statement and not a joke?

Again, lack of respect is reserved among specific people who have been at it for years. And even then, the "lack of respect" is "apparent" because deep down, they still talk to each other. It is just how they do things.

I think there should be a limit. Because it's just not great that you can be a dick however you want and expect people to go along with it.

You can always have good discussions. There is no need to respond to discussions that have been going on till time immemorial.

If I want to discuss with someone, out of 20 visible posts on one page, over half of it feels useless to talk to because they aren't being serious or aren't providing enough material to actual respond to. That may just be my opinion, but I don't feel there's much room to engage with each other if you're being serious.

You get props for being among the Zoro fans that are reasonable and level-headed. There are other fans who harassed a certain user here for months with PMs and messages, and the guy just left bc of the toxicity of some of the Zoro fans. ONe of the best posters had to leave (he was busy in his life as well) but couldn't stand this forum bc of how certain Zoro bois behave themselves. No Sanji fans have ever done this ever I can bet my account on it

There are surely way more Zoro fans who just enjoy him as a character and not push him into the clouds to be of godlike status. But they aren't given as much space because once you say you like Zoro you're being counted to the rest of them. Even I, who like Zoro, don't like the Zoro Fanclub because it's full of wankers. I absolutely didn't feel comfortable there.

 

[Finalbeta]

You have my agreeance for what concerns an improved moderation.

There are a few things I would like to be dealt with personally:

- Useless rants
- Free insulting and dissing
- Targeting users
- Flamebaiting/Trolling

I would like mods to be way more strict for such listed points

 

[MD Zolo]

And who decides if someone makes a controversial post or not? If not just the person who wants to troll and thus answers, even if it is actually meant as an actual statement and not a joke?

If somebody is not getting trolled on until he/she makes a specific post, then there is a good chance that there is something wrong with that post.

Again, many users here aren't trolled/bullied/bashed at all. Why aren't they? Having opinion is one thing but stating something ridiculous does invite trolls/bullies. It's quite simple really: if you post at the same level as the trolls/bullies, you will get similar replies.

The so-called trolls/bullies are reciprocating most of the time. If you bring yourself to that level, they will interact with you at that level. They don't reply to good posts with trolls/bashes (but there may be jokes).

There are surely way more Zoro fans who just enjoy him as a character and not push him into the clouds to be of godlike status. But they aren't given as much space because once you say you like Zoro you're being counted to the rest of them. Even I, who like Zoro, don't like the Zoro Fanclub because it's full of wankers. I absolutely didn't feel comfortable there.

This is absolutely untrue. I recently posted in a Spoiler thread that Zoro's main fight may be Who's Who. I was faced with arguments and criticism from many Zoro fans who believe it to be King. But that's about it. I don't think they responded in any way that can be considered discomforting.

All Zoro fans have the same space. The Zoro FC members stick together and therefore their voice is louder. It is basic science: Many people talking at the same time will produce grater sound than one person. But it doesn't mean that people who aren't Zoro FC members don't have a voice.

 

[Adam 🍎]

You have my agreeance for what concerns an improved moderation.

There are a few things I would like to be dealt with personally:

- Useless rants
- Free insulting and dissing
- Targeting users
- Flamebaiting/Trolling

I would like mods to be way more strict for such listed points

I would add spamming/post buffing to that list too

 

[Jew D. Boy]

I agree with the spirit of the original post, but the hope that an Internet forum will be completely troll-free might be a little too pie-in-the-sky. Some people are naturally antagonistic or willing to instigate, I don’t know that you’ll ever get through to someone whose desire to insult and denigrate runs so deeply.

You’re right, some users here go a little too far with their zeal for the series/specific characters...but I think the mods are limited in their ability to catch every inflammatory post. Out of the 1500+ registered users, let’s say there are 250 of us who actively post. Two admins and, what, seven mods? That’s one person for every 25 users, all of whom write things that are gross or derogatory to some degree (and yes, pretty much everyone on this board talks SOME sort of shit). We all live in different times zones, too, so even if a user posts something mean and it gets reported, it could be up for hours purely by virtue of the mods being asleep/living their offline lives.

Honestly, the best thing to do is put users you don’t like on ignore. Think most of us fall back on that option, and our experience here is made better solely by that fact. You can always choose to unignore content in a thread if other responses don’t make sense out of context, but I think you’ll find that you don’t miss much.

 

[Pantheos]

Hey Sievas!

First of all, critics are always welcome, so thank you for your honesty and your effort in trying to improve the forum.

About the toxicity between some fandoms and in specific threads and Areas, trust me, we are well known About it and we try very much to get it clean and deal with this stuff. Sadly it is not that easy and consumes very very much time. We try to be as Patient as possible, cause we know People can come into Deep Dispute pretty fast, even tho they are not bad People. If you knew how much discussions i had with several People who instantly saw their own mistakes, but couldnt see them in the discussion. Sometimes they just fell to Deep, which can also be Kind of our fault, cause we dont react fast enough. But here, we are all People will real lifes, fulltime jobs, Family and stuff.

So, just let me state that we are really trying. Still, we kinda Need also your help as users, while reporting critical stuff, while trying to calm down stuff too, so we can get a better view at all.

Maybe we were to Patient and friendly before, Maybe we Need to get more strict (i hear @TheAncientCenturion mumbling in my ear), Maybe we Need to deal different with some situations. Thats all stuff we Need to take into a further discussion and i promise, we will take the discussion.

This is just a short reaction here, no Deep thought Admin-Post, but i will take that matter to a further discussion inside the Team for sure. Meanwhile i would be Pretty glad if you can Keep the discussion further, share your experiences with the toxicity, but also what you guys liked and not liked while we handled it. For sure we all can improve here, but for the improvement, i Need to get also the Point of view of you guys.

Gz
Panth

 

[Adam 🍎]

Honestly, the best thing to do is put users you don’t like on ignore. Think most of us fall back on that option, and our experience here is made better solely by that fact. You can always choose to unignore content in a thread if other responses don’t make sense out of context,

From personal experience this rarely works. You dont solve the problem you just hide it. Sweep it under the rug.

New members that come will be met by same if not higher levels of toxicity and it will off put them to join. And those that do join will either endulge in that toxicity or have to deal with it first.

The problem keeps on rising and rising to the point it implodes all over the forum and regardless if you blocked someone or not you will suffer from it.

I love to shit talk, i love meming and all that stuff. But i respect the boundries set by the admins. I dont go above that. Quite a bit of people dont respect mods nor their boundries and until you cut them off they will continue their ways

I've seen it on OJ and i've seen it on other forums. If you give trolls too much freedom shit goes down

Post automatically merged: Jun 23, 2020

So, just let me state that we are really trying. Still, we kinda Need also your help as users, while reporting critical stuff, while trying to calm

And i cant agree with this more.
Change starts from the bottom up, not from top to bottom

 

[Jew D. Boy]

From personal experience this rarely works. You dont solve the problem you just hide it. Sweep it under the rug.

New members that come will be met by same if not higher levels of toxicity and it will off put them to join. And those that do join will either endulge in that toxicity or have to deal with it first.

The problem keeps on rising and rising to the point it implodes all over the forum and regardless if you blocked someone or not you will suffer from it.

I love to shit talk, i love meming and all that stuff. But i respect the boundries set by the admins. I dont go above that. Quite a bit of people dont respect mods nor their boundries and until you cut them off they will continue their ways

I've seen it on OJ and i've seen it on other forums. If you give trolls too much freedom shit goes down

I’m not doubting this at all, but maybe we’re both painting with too wide a brush. New members get a very warm welcome if they make a thread in the Registration section, and there are plenty who still get treated kindly when they show up in spoiler threads. For the most part, people here don’t want to troll...but I’m aware that some do.

The mods hand out suspensions and bans as frequently as necessary, I think we see that with guys like Moe (RIP), ZoroGang, and Shishio all the time. These guys are notorious recidivists, and I’m sure plenty of folks believe they deserve(d) to be gone for good. Still, they always came back and started doing the same shit that got them punished in the first place.

What can the mods do, short of banning (which will give this place the same bad reputation OJ had at the end? They’re not getting paid to police this place, and their usual measures are ineffective against some repeat offenders...so if they’re not getting booted off for good, your recourse IS to sweep them under the rug and let them scream into the void, or at least keep reporting them until they leave the authorities no choice but to send them away.

 

[Sievas]

You have my agreeance for what concerns an improved moderation.

There are a few things I would like to be dealt with personally:

- Useless rants
- Free insulting and dissing
- Targeting users
- Flamebaiting/Trolling

I would like mods to be way more strict for such listed points

I agree with this. Thanks for your input!

If somebody is not getting trolled on until he/she makes a specific post, then there is a good chance that there is something wrong with that post.

Again, many users here aren't trolled/bullied/bashed at all. Why aren't they? Having opinion is one thing but stating something ridiculous does invite trolls/bullies. It's quite simple really: if you post at the same level as the trolls/bullies, you will get similar replies.

The so-called trolls/bullies are reciprocating most of the time. If you bring yourself to that level, they will interact with you at that level. They don't reply to good posts with trolls/bashes (but there may be jokes).

Even if you're not part of the trolling or are not being trolled, you are affected by it. And I also saw people saying things like "guys you're overdoing it, let's tone down the trolling a bit" but of course it doesn't work if that's not coming from a mod.

This is absolutely untrue. I recently posted in a Spoiler thread that Zoro's main fight may be Who's Who. I was faced with arguments and criticism from many Zoro fans who believe it to be King. But that's about it. I don't think they responded in any way that can be considered discomforting.

All Zoro fans have the same space. The Zoro FC members stick together and therefore their voice is louder. It is basic science: Many people talking at the same time will produce grater sound than one person. But it doesn't mean that people who aren't Zoro FC members don't have a voice.

I as someone who genuinely likes Zoro as a character and have read pages and pages of Zoros FC see it differently. If you have a different level of tolerance for this, fine. I at least wasn't vibing with that place at all.

I would add spamming/post buffing to that list too

Defintiely. I feel like a lot of posts don't actually have any value in contributing discussion material...

I agree with the spirit of the original post, but the hope that an Internet forum will be completely troll-free might be a little too pie-in-the-sky. Some people are naturally antagonistic or willing to instigate, I don’t know that you’ll ever get through to someone whose desire to insult and denigrate runs so deeply.

I am not screaming out for an idealistic place. I am hoping that the toxicity is being restricted and that mods contribute to a more welcoming community that isn't being pillared by partly half-hearted discussions and trolling by enforcing a few stricter rules. You can still joke and enjoy but just to make WG a more mature place where we all can respect each other more.

characters...but I think the mods are limited in their ability to catch every inflammatory post. Out of the 1500+ registered users, let’s say there are 250 of us who actively post. Two admins and, what, seven mods? That’s one person for every 25 users, all of whom write things that are gross or derogatory to some degree (and yes, pretty much everyone on this board talks SOME sort of shit). We all live in different times zones, too, so even if a user posts something mean and it gets reported, it could be up for hours purely by virtue of the mods being asleep/living their offline lives.

Of course that is true. What I would like is the admins/mods realizing first that this is an actual problem that needs to solved, enforcing stricter rules and to reach out to the community itself and say "there's a report button, use it". As long as there's no action from the mods side people can't just go around reporting everything they see as toxic. To say "hey please just post if you contribute to the discussion and don't do as much trolling or insulting" is a first step and then people know they have the right to actively report things.

Honestly, the best thing to do is put users you don’t like on ignore. Think most of us fall back on that option, and our experience here is made better solely by that fact. You can always choose to unignore content in a thread if other responses don’t make sense out of context, but I think you’ll find that you don’t miss much.

That's sad though if that's thw only option possible to make this forum a pleasurable experience. Because there are people who troll sometimes and can contribute as well at another point. And just personally cutting out all toxic people is not the point. The point of blocking someone is because you personally don't like them. Not to remove them because the stuff they post have no value.

Hey Sievas!

First of all, critics are always welcome, so thank you for your honesty and your effort in trying to improve the forum.

About the toxicity between some fandoms and in specific threads and Areas, trust me, we are well known About it and we try very much to get it clean and deal with this stuff. Sadly it is not that easy and consumes very very much time. We try to be as Patient as possible, cause we know People can come into Deep Dispute pretty fast, even tho they are not bad People. If you knew how much discussions i had with several People who instantly saw their own mistakes, but couldnt see them in the discussion. Sometimes they just fell to Deep, which can also be Kind of our fault, cause we dont react fast enough. But here, we are all People will real lifes, fulltime jobs, Family and stuff.

So, just let me state that we are really trying. Still, we kinda Need also your help as users, while reporting critical stuff, while trying to calm down stuff too, so we can get a better view at all.

Maybe we were to Patient and friendly before, Maybe we Need to get more strict (i hear @TheAncientCenturion mumbling in my ear), Maybe we Need to deal different with some situations. Thats all stuff we Need to take into a further discussion and i promise, we will take the discussion.

This is just a short reaction here, no Deep thought Admin-Post, but i will take that matter to a further discussion inside the Team for sure. Meanwhile i would be Pretty glad if you can Keep the discussion further, share your experiences with the toxicity, but also what you guys liked and not liked while we handled it. For sure we all can improve here, but for the improvement, i Need to get also the Point of view of you guys.

Gz
Panth

I'll be busy for the afternoon so I won't reply much but Danke for replying already.

The rest I will read later.

 

[Adam 🍎]

What can the mods do, short of banning (which will give this place the same bad reputation OJ had at the end? They’re not getting paid to police this place, and their usual measures are ineffective against some repeat offenders...so if they’re not getting booted off for good, your recourse IS to sweep them under the rug and let them scream into the void, or at least keep reporting them until they leave the authorities no choice but to send them away.

Nothing.
Same as mods on OJ didnt make it, same as mods on other forums didnt make it.

Change starts from bottom up. And if people dont wanna change they wont. But it should be our job as a community to point a finger and say: Hey thats bad.