Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler

[Owl Ki]

And I’m almost tempted to say Gekishin’s hype was just fake given the difference between how hard Ouki and Duke Hyou pushed Riboku and Houken. Gekishin seemed like nothing in comparison to them.

Regarding Gekishin, him being able to at least partially reproduce Gakuki's warfare and his "legend" status where Ouki and Gekishin's death gave Riboku the needed clout to form a coalition army, that would certainly make him a Great General within the top tier range.

I would be inclined to give the edge to each of the old Great Heavens against him, though.

I would say that Gekishin's hype was 100% real. He was arguably portrayed as a Top Tier strategist and also as a good fighter to boot. Anyone who spoke of him treated him with nothing but respect.

His role in the story was to show what a Top Tier General without Weight looked like in a fight, both to the benefit of the reader and to Houken. Presumably the reason why Gekishin didn't have Weight despite his status as a Legendary Great General was due to his detached, mercenary style attitude of selling his services to the highest bidder and his complete disregard to his own subordinates. Gekishin could also serve as an example of what Shin could have ended up becoming had he kept his own initial mercenary style attitude he had towards Ei Sei and never acquired a higher ideal to fight for. The bloke's name is literally Geki Shin.

 

[God Buggy]

@Owl Ki Yeah I agree Gekishin was the real deal warfare wise.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

@Elder Lee Hung

Spoiler: Big History Spoilers

Nah Chu’s big victories later on are being saved for Kou En and Shouheikun. Karin will not be involved, all of EOS Chu’s scary feats exclude her. There’s a reason she’s only the intermediate head of Chu until Shouheikun takes over, she won’t reach Ousen/Rinshoujou tier.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah because she’s an original character Hara designed that isn’t part of the Shiji. That doesn’t mean her significance in these conflicts will be any less important. Thats like saying Riboku never actually killed Ouki or partook in the Coalition because of what history says. Lol.

You really believe Hara made her character nearly end the entire Qin state with her strategy in the Coalition only to have her take a backseat?

So yeah no need for Chu to have 2/3 Renpa level guys at all to be a massive pain in the ass.

Brother, when Renpa was still active there were literally 2 other Renpa’s just casually having a BBQ somewhere.

If the Zhao King wasn’t a deranged moron we would be dealing with 3 Renpa’s in this very moment.

Miss me with that bullshit!

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Yeah because she’s an original character Hara designed that isn’t part of the Shiji. That doesn’t mean her significance in these conflicts will be any less important. Thats like saying Riboku never actually killed Ouki or partook in the Coalition because of what history says. Lol.

You really believe Hara made her character nearly end the entire Qin state with her strategy in the Coalition only to have her take a backseat?

I mean, time will tell what Hara will do but I doubt he’s going to rewrite certain historical events around Karin when the other two characters I mentioned are far more hyped/important than she is anyway lol.

 

[Shanks]

Renpa lost to literally two Qin 6 members and Shin slaying Rinko. This the best Renpa downplay you’ve got? Lol

Riboku has never lost a battle that any other commander wouldn’t have lost anyway.

Riboku lost at Sai because Sei pulled off a miracle. Guess what, there isn’t a general in this manga who could have won at Sai. Shobunkun literally said that King Shou himself couldn’t have saved Sai the way Sei did.

Riboku lost Gyou because Tou Jou handed Ousen a victory on a silver platter. Give Riboku a competent King and Ousen would be dead right now lol.

So what if there was Ousen and Kanki against Renpa !? Against Ouki, it was Riboku and Houken and an arrow but still what Ouki put against these guys was far better than Renpa did against MouGu army. What really matters is Renpa lost there and lost Sanyou region.

You say Riboku never lost a battle which other won't have lost !? But the way he lost in Gyou is so miserable that he can't even be compared with Qin who successfully defended northern pass with half of the opposition army while Riboku lost while having more generals and more numbers as well. Lol

Riboku also lost when he claimed it's Renpa’s win 9 out 10 times and even he can't win against him in head on clash while in next few chapters we got to see Renpa losing and getting exiled from the state.

Riboku lost at Sai because of his idiocy to not take risky decision and directly crush down Sai even when he concluded that there is no general left in Qin and only a king type figure could rile up normal citizens like this but wait he has to calculate don't know what kind of shit to take the decision of bringing down Sai immediately. Even Kaine and Futei reached the walls and saw no special martial general or other present there but Riboku has to be over-cautious there. Lol

Riboku lost due to his own incompetence. Lol. Why blame TouJou when Riboku already had so many advantages but he still couldn't pull off a victory there !? Qin with severe disadvantages still successfully secured Kankoku pass with there own strategies and army competency . Lol

“Put up a fight” lol, is that what you call body bagging top tier commanders left and right? It would be a more accurate statement to say “Riboku needs years of planning to systematically slaughter the best generals in this manga in overwhelming fashion.”

I think you want to write losing Top tier commanders left and right !! Definitely, coz he lost his beat Pokémon, Houken and CGR, GyouUn, Keisha, Earl Brothers and who knows how many more ... lol

I would say it's Riboku who his serving heads of Zhao's best generals on silver platter to the Qin.

Also none would lost in so overwhelming way in whole series like Riboku got in Gyou or Kankoku pass or at Sai (though not overwhelmingly here at Sai but definitely in a disgusting and insulting way).

Literally if Ousen defeats a third of the names Riboku has defeated at EOS, Ousen would be a contender for strongest general ever. A third my guy.

Riboku defeated Ouki Gekishin Northern tribe Duke Hyou and Kanki while Ousen has defeated Riboku himself so Ousen has defeated whoever Riboku has defeated in his whole life. Believe it or not but its Simple as that. By the end of the series he would be named as general with conquering the states rather than Riboku who got heads of only a few generals in his name.

Though it might be heartbreaking for Riboku's fandom but Ousen would be far higher in the achievements than Riboku. Sorry but the real most dangerous man for whole china in reality is Ousen and Eisei.

 

[God Buggy]

I mean, time will tell what Hara will do but I doubt he’s going to rewrite certain historical events around Karin when the other two characters I mentioned are far more hyped/important than she is anyway lol.

Spoiler

About this. Sure, Kou En and Shouheikun are gonna get the biggest pieces but I think Hara is just gonna hype them up THAT severely:

- Kouen is looking like he'll be so disturbingly powerful that it's gonna be shocking lol.

- Shouheikun has wild hype in the manga. And there was also a line from his subordinate: "Now imagine if Shouheikun had matured in Chu"...so it's possible that he'll actually be even more powerful when he's there. Lol.

Karin can easily be the #3 and be a freaking monster. Hara for sure keeps on giving her huge portrayal and we're still far away from the Chu main arcs.

But really, Hara can make her pretty much as strong as he wants to. Chu vs Qin is just going to be wild.

 

[MarineHQ]

Karin not being Top 1 or Top 2 of Chu doesn't mean she isn't or can never be 3GH level because Kouen and the second strongest of Chu themselves might actually scale above RBK.

Man'U is going to be Top 5-ish or even slightly below that and he put Moubu on his ass and dominated that entire exchange.

Just a reminder Moubu called Kanmei’s previous oponnents weak and one of those guys was Oukotsu lol

Also it seems like Moubu is seen as the "strongest" general in Qin.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I would say that Gekishin's hype was 100% real. He was arguably portrayed as a Top Tier strategist and also as a good fighter to boot. Anyone who spoke of him treated him with nothing but respect.

His role in the story was to show what a Top Tier General without Weight looked like in a fight, both to the benefit of the reader and to Houken. Presumably the reason why Gekishin didn't have Weight despite his status as a Legendary Great General was due to his detached, mercenary style attitude of selling his services to the highest bidder and his complete disregard to his own subordinates. Gekishin could also serve as an example of what Shin could have ended up becoming had he kept his own initial mercenary style attitude he had towards Ei Sei and never acquired a higher ideal to fight for. The bloke's name is literally Geki Shin.

I acknowledge his portrayal. Best Yan commander we’ve seen in the manga, second best of all time behind Gakuki. But I don’t think any Great Heaven we’ve seen would do as miserably against Houken as Gekishin did. Sure Gekishin underestimated them but even so.

Ouki almost killed Houken twice, and deduced that Riboku existed despite Riboku trying to conceal himself.

Duke Hyou broke Houken’s arm after countering Riboku’s Ryuudou and Riboku calling him the pinnacle of the instinctual type.

Both Ouki and Duke Hyou got martial hype by Houken, both Ouki and Duke Hyou got tactical/strategic hype by Riboku.

Gekishin picked out where Riboku was hiding, so that was cool, but then he got utterly rolled like a joint by Houken. Houken actually literally called him a fraud. Like he actually said the word fraud, and he almost laughed at Gekishin as he killed him. I don’t think any 3GH in history would receive such horrid portrayal lol.

It’s almost like Hara clowned Gekishin on purpose, and Hara really doesn’t clown any of his generals for the most part.

So it’s just weird. Gekishin is supposed to be a 3GH contender and yet he got treated like an even bigger clown than Ordo. Literally I’m not sure what we’re supposed to think of Gekishin, but I’m positive that he looked absolutely horrible against Hou-boku compared to Ouki and Duke Hyou.

 

[Cichy]

Whether or not 3GH are better then 6GG or their equals is debatable, however it's pretty clear that 3GH have stronger armies. Rinshoujo had 10 generals under his wing including Gyou'un and Chougaryuu which is absolutely insane. Renpa's Heavenly Kings are impressive vassals to this day. Riboku started with pretty meh army, but as of now he gathered amazing collection of vassals in his own right. Shibashou doesn't seem to be an exception.

Regarding Karin it's still too soon to tell how good she is exactly, we haven't really seen her in action since Coalition War which is a shame.

Gekishin literally toyed with Riboku's strategy

What? Literally the opposite happened.

Gekishin sent his Poison Cats on a wild goose chase to find Riboku's HQ while his army was geting anihilated by Zhao forces, simply because Riboku was watching him from the right and countering his every move. Sure, Gekishin figured it out eventually, but Riboku was careful enough to have his bodyguard close to HQ in case he was discovered, so Gekishin's counterattack turned out to be a complete failure. The entire battle plan was an overwhelming success no matter how you look at it.

 

[Bullet]

seriously how shin gonna surpass rbk ?

yep hara can write any bullshit he want like
rbk : oh shin you surpassed me now !!
any characters : shin is the strongest gg
or even make history narrator say it : thus among the living and the dead shin has no match under the heaven


anyone who believe shin gonna be truly gg by the end is just hallucinating :laughmoji:

I don't get why you have a hate boner for Shin
He'll lose to this guy and that guy, oh he won't reach that level, oh guys Heki's actually a better commander than Shin etc..
Shin is already considered by Riboku more dangerous than any of Ousen's vassals, he was the reason Kanki even was able to put RBK in danger last arc if not for him Kanki would either die in the encirclement or get out with 200 men max out of his 100k
Duke was already one of the greatest generals to ever live and he broke RBK's formation with an 8 to 1 disadvantage and prime Shin is destined to be a better leader, a better instinctsual general and with the martial might to mid diff the duke in a duel if not worse
Get out with this Shin slander

 

[God Buggy]

Rinshoujo had 10 generals under his wing including Gyou'un and Chougaryuu which is absolutely insane.

For real. Gosh I'd love to see them in action.

Gyou’Un + Chougaryuu + eight other generals? Eight?? With Rinshoujo at its helm? How strong was this army even. Lol.

 

[Bullet]

Gekishin literally toyed with Riboku's strategy and later even attacked his HQ. If not for Houken, Riboku would have gotten his head rolled there. Lol

Nonsense
Finding the HQ is not toying with someone's strategy lol
What are you smoking
Oh Riboku found out Ousen was gonna take food from Qi so he toyed with Ousen
Riboku had Houken so he used him
If Houken wasn't there Riboku would have taken a few more soldiers and archers so who gives a fuck

 

[Shanks]

What? Literally the opposite happened.

Gekishin sent his Poison Cats on a wild goose chase to find Riboku's HQ while his army was geting anihilated by Zhao forces, simply because Riboku was watching him from the right and countering his every move. Sure, Gekishin figured it out eventually, but Riboku was careful enough to have his bodyguard close to HQ in case he was discovered, so Gekishin's counterattack turned out to be a complete failure. The entire battle plan was an overwhelming success no matter how you look at it.

Nonsense
Finding the HQ is not toying with someone's strategy lol

Gekishin's counter was before even Riboku could have taken his HQ into the formation and there defense got crumbled instantly.

Also the toying with Riboku meant how even though both were clashing in small amount here and there but suddenly Gekishin's understands Riboku's position and attacked his HQ so fastly that Riboku's men couldn't even got into formation to defend/attack.

You all think toying is only how Renpa singlehandedly destroyed MouGu's mountain setup !? Lol. The way Gekishin made that war reach it conclusion in half a day is also a kind of toying with enemy and that is when its a war in mountain and having more than 100k troop each side.

If Houken wasn't there Riboku would have taken a few more soldiers and archers so who gives a fuck

Like without Houken they could have broken the enemy's momentum with just number of soldiers and archers.... your thing ain't working, get it checked coz Riboku couldn't even got his men into formation before Gekishin started his assault.

Actually this has been an issue for Riboku all the time and in every enemy's counter attack. God knows how many generals and even his Pokémon he has lost in a situation where he couldn't even defend or counter enemy's assault. Lol

 

[Greenbeard]

Yeah Qin not having any old legends is the missing piece. They should have tons of them lol. All generals working under 6 GG would be legendary and we should be seeing them at least sometimes like how we see CGR and co. If Qin has them ready to help out El Sei, Qin will be extremely OP.

 

[God Buggy]

Yeah Qin not having any old legends is the missing piece. They should have tons of them lol. All generals working under 6 GG would be legendary and we should be seeing them at least sometimes like how we see CGR and co. If Qin has them ready to help out El Sei, Qin will be extremely OP.

Hakuki buried them alive by mistake.

 

[Shanks]

Hakuki buried them alive by mistake.

In ChouHei along with Zhao's soldiers !! So this was the reason behind his suicide....

 

[Cichy]

without Houken

Without Houken there's no reason to assume Riboku would have the same placement of troops or even the same plan.

He placed his HQ the way he did precisely because he was confident he is safe there. We are talking about a guy who even when traveling in rush makes a formation that secures his main camp in case of an attack. Every time we see Riboku risk his neck he has some sort of security mesure prepared.

 

[Owl Ki]

Gekishin picked out where Riboku was hiding, so that was cool, but then he got utterly rolled like a joint by Houken. Houken actually literally called him a fraud. Like he actually said the word fraud, and he almost laughed at Gekishin as he killed him. I don’t think any 3GH in history would receive such horrid portrayal lol.

For the bit about Houken calling him a fraud, that has to do with Gekishin's lack of Weight and Hara wanting to give Houken some character growth.

From what I recall, Riboku lured Houken onto the battlefield with the promise of another powerful General in Gekishin. Gekishin's military record on paper would put him on par with the Qin 6 and Great Heavens. With Houken not comprehending Ouki's words fully, he goes to the battlefield once more expecting another great duel to test his martial might and perhaps come closer to understanding what it is about being a Great General that made the likes of Ouki strong enough to best him in a duel.

He finds Gekishin and finds him completely lacking what Ouki had (i.e. Weight). Despite all his accomplishments on the battlefield as a Great General, Gekishin immediately crumples under Houken's might. Without Weight, without that thing which intrigues and frustrates the Bushin so, Gekishin is indeed a fraud in Houken's eyes and while he perhaps isn't closer to understanding what the Weight of a General is, Houken does now know what it isn't. It isn't something that is acquired just by being a General or even by being a General with a long and successful battlefield career. There is something more to it that Houken has yet to find out, that something being emotional attachment which Houken rejects.

As for the rest of that post, Geki got Kochou'd. Lmao.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

There is something more to it that Houken has yet to find out, that something being emotional attachment which Houken rejects.

Gaimou shares a similar MO but he has weight, for some reason.

 

[Owl Ki]

Gaimou shares a similar MO but he has weight, for some reason.

Nah, Gaimou and Houken aren't that similar. Gaimou may possess an absolutely cynical view of warfare but he still has emotional attachments as shown by his concern for his strategist (and his harem of beautiful babes ).

Houken by comparison actively rejects emotional attachments altogether (the Bushin 100% died a virgin 😭).