General & Others What arc has the most greater number of incoherences and contradictions ?

T

trav

#22
#22
ITT blanket statements

not 1 real inconsistency named.

Charlotte Horchata said:
Wano, or more specifically many things regarding its plot, is a good candidate:

1) Gifters are firstly introduced as abnormal zoan users that, in spite of that, can transform without problem. Sheepshead is a good example of this since he can invoke his sheep parts at will, but fodder soldiers (like the wolf user in Zou) could do it too. Later it was retconned to a permanent change and gifters can't control their transformation anymore.

2) Kin'emon was firtst introduced as a retainer of the Kogetsu family and introduced himself in a very cold, formal way like if nobody there knew him. Raizou was then addressed as "dono" by Neko and Inu, and they explained how the relationship between the clan and the minks was very old. Only next chapter we get the feeling that Neko and Inu were close friends to Kin'emon and literal retainers of Oden, and the family is named as Kozuki, clearly seeming like Oda made some changes between chapters.

3) Again in Zou it was stated that the Beast Pirates were after Oden because of his knowledge on Laugh Tale, which was never addressed during the flashback.

4) Enma's background was retconned from a sword that was only tamed by Oden, nobody before, nobody after, into a birth gift (so it is impossible for a "before" to happen).

5) Orochi forgets that he knows that Hiyori is alive.

6) The Big Mom Pirates don't try to climb the waterfall after they're taken down by King and they somehow don't know about the secret port, which is supposedly used by different people affiliated with the Beast Pirates, in spite of being the crew with the best intelligence network in the world.

7) Marco's letter makes no sense.

8) Oden is allowed to keep his swords even imprisoned.

Am I forgetting something?
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1. SMILES do not work like regular fruit. there are different way SMILES can manifest. half/half transformations with animals lodged somewhere in the body. partial at will transformations etc. its like regular Zoans, but only fractions of it and not always the same ones. you may not like this, but its consistent.

2. lol what :milaugh:

3. and why should it be? you know that Kin only spilled his beans recently in Wano, right?

4. ?!?!? that says nothing about how many hands Enma passed through.

5. does he know that she is?

6. hardly anyone knows something about Wano. intelligence or not. you mix up plot convenience with inconsistencies a lot.

7. that is not inconsistent. it just pisses you off.

8. this is again a convenience not an inconsistency.
 
Charlotte Horchata

Charlotte Horchata

‎
#23
#23
trav said:
ITT blanket statements

not 1 real inconsistency named.

1. SMILES do not work like regular fruit. there are different way SMILES can manifest. half/half transformations with animals lodged somewhere in the body. partial at will transformations etc. its like regular Zoans, but only fractions of it and not always the same ones. you may not like this, but its consistent.

2. lol what :milaugh:

3. and why should it be? you know that Kin only spilled his beans recently in Wano, right?

4. ?!?!? that says nothing about how many hands Enma passed through.

5. does he know that she is?

6. hardly anyone knows something about Wano. intelligence or not. you mix up plot convenience with inconsistencies a lot.

7. that is not inconsistent. it just pisses you off.

8. this is again a convenience not an inconsistency.
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1) This feels like an ad hoc explanation. In Zou we are shown that the gifters can choose when to transform, be it shown explicitly (Sheepshead, wolf gifter) or assumed (Ginrummy), but in Wano we even have strong users suffering the negative effects of not controlling their power (Holdem, Dobon). I mean, what's the difference between growing a lion in your stomach and a wolf in your arm? Because the first is the stronger user yet can't control it while the second is the weaker one and has full control over it.

2) The Kozuki family wasn't first named as such, Kin'emon needed to introduce himself in front of Inuarashi and Nekomamushi like a stranger and the two minks refer to their close friend Raizou as "dono", which, as far as I recall, is a honorific with some tension into it as it's used towards superiors in hierarchy or people who you respect in a similar fashion. To put it into perspective, the only characters that receive a similar treatment are the likes of Oden or Yasu from their subordinates with the honorific "sama", and when Kin'emon and occassionally other people deal with allies like Luffy or Law, but the Scabbards (as far as I remember) don't use it when talking to or about each other. It sounds really weird for someone to refer to a very close friend as "dono" because it isn't meant to be used as such. As I said, the whole atmosphere of the scene gives the message that Neko and Inu aren't close friends to the retainers of the "Kogetsu" clan, let alone literal members of it, hence why Kin'emon is introducing himself and the two minks are treating Raizou in a way that, as far as I'm concerned, isn't meant for childhood friends.

3) Kin'emon left the country as soon as he returned from the past. The only way for him to know that the Beast Pirates executed Oden as they tried to extract the information he found out in Laugh Tale would be that he had witnessed it twenty years ago; again, this was never addressed during the flashback, so makes no sense for him to assure that Kaido wanted information from Roger's journey.

4) It does. It was forged for Oden as a birth gift. Do you seriously imagine the shogun allowing others to use a sword expressly created for his son, to the point of becoming legendary because nobody before him could tame it?

5) Yes, Kanjuro told him about it in a letter.

6) "Plot convenience" and "inconsistency" are virtually the same the moment the first challenges a consistency point. In other words, when you need to draw a veil over certain conveniences that feel very forced because, either way, they don't hold up with regards to previously established stuff. Again, Big Mom's network has been praised by both allies and enemies (how they knew about the kois amazed Kaido already) and there's in fact contact with the outside world through that port, so basically we need to buy that for twenty years the best intelligence network among pirates has never traced the main port used by the Beasts Pirates and their allies (even new ones like, well, the Big Mom Pirates), maybe enemies too (CP0), to enter Wano. That's such a huge stretch that becomes an inconsistency in my opinion, and even if you don't want to address it, there's still the problem with everybody assuming the Queen Mama Chanter would enter Wano using the port (even a fodder Beast Pirate) yet noone telling Big Mom about it (did they assume that the Big Mom Pirates knew about it, then?).

7) It "pisses me off" because it makes no sense. A good writer, if they wanted it to be a consistent plot point, would imagine an important message that required Marco to write it down and pass it through Nekomamushi as soon as possible. Giving the cat a letter saying "I'll come" is absurd and makes no sense from a narrative point of view because he wouldn't need to write that to begin with, leaving holes that can't be explained properly.

8) It is an inconsistency because previously in the same flashback we were shown some solid watching with soldiers guarding the prison and now magically Oden is allowed to keep his swords and Toki can approach him and take them with ease.

Kurodiamondo said:
Wait how did you know orochi forgets hiyori is alive?
:choppawhat:
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Because he says that he will end the Kozuki bloodline by killing Momonosuke (982) yet Kanjuro told him in a letter that Hiyori is still alive (955).
 
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Gensui Sazid

Gensui Sazid

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#27
#27
MugiwaraMaster said:
What plotholes Marineford had actually?

I guess only one thing that came to mind is Akainu not bleeding from Vista and Marco's Haki attacks.
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why would this be a plot hole? i dont get it. i mean its not like we ever got a confirmation from Oda or from someone credible in the manga that the duo can harm Akainu. Haki is also not an absolute that will damage everyone it comes across. otherwise we will be calling luffy Vs BM and Kaido a plot hole.

we are also dont know if the duo landed their attack on akainu cleanly or not. we dont know if Akainu facetanked it or he logia-shifted himself. we never got the confirmation.
 
Charlotte Horchata

Charlotte Horchata

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#31
#31
Kurodiamondo said:
Are you talking about viz translation?

I thought the raw only says "kono kozuki ikinokori koroshi!!" which mean (without intepretation) this kozuki, survivor, kill!!

So i guess viz overintepreted it
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It isn't just about the "this" part but the idea of ending the Kozuki era by killing Momonosuke, which appears in every translation, be it official or not. And Orochi can't cut that bloodline if Hiyori is still alive.
 
Luffy is the mc

Luffy is the mc

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#36
#36
Wano arc without a doubt. The inconsistencies with the previous arcs are too apparent.
Especially with the monster trio's strenght and durability.

A few examples: luffy vs kaido, sanji vs drake, zoro vs killer, luffy and zoro vs apoo and I'm not talking about the outcomes of these fights but more about the fact that the monster trio was portrayed bad in some aspects where they used to be highlighted (durability for zoro and luffy, speed for sanji), they forgot about their own abilities.

But not only wano is weird in term of power level, it is also wrong on the "kaido killed oden because he didn't want to reveal where laugh tale was".

I really hope oda will give us some epics moments during the raid to compensate with that.
 
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