Is Bleach Better than Kingdom?


  • Total voters
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TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'𝖘 𝕾𝖕𝖆𝖜𝖓
Y'all telling on yourselves.

Ko Chou held it down against Ou Sen, Yo Tan Wa and Kan Ki for a year. Hara wrote his defeat being the result of a race against time he was fated to lose, not because of Kan Ki but because the HSU arrived half a day early.

It ain't on Hara if you refuse to engage with the material in front of you.
One of the reasons that Kochou's performance was so disappointing was because of his defensive feat against Ousen and the others. It actually is a pretty impressive feat, too bad he didn't do anything crazy in the arc/war where he was the main antagonist.

and I don't find the fact that Kochou was going to win against Kanki that impressive. He literally had 3 times as many men lol
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I will give Kochou the edge over Ordo and Sei Kai though.
 
I think the writing is fine. I want to see more of our MCs getting put in situations where we see their weaknesses. It’s just more entertaining for me.
MCs being put in bad spots isn't the issue for me.

The issue is those bad spots being contrived through questionable writing.

A Kou thinking he could reverse a scenario on Ri Boku was questionable. He should have known Ou Sen wouldn't want anyone attacking Ri Boku without his supervision. Still, you can set that aside fairly easily.

Exposing his back in a panic and hurry like that just because SBS's army made contact with Ou Sen's army is where the writing needs to justify where it wants to go. For me, it hasn't done enough.

At Shukai, Akou was near death so it’s natural we wouldn’t see his reaction. And Ousen may have been in danger, but Sou Ou/Denrimi/Shiryou knew the best way to help Ousen was to defeat Riboku, so they never went back to help him.
All of Ou Sen's generals are wanting/trying to come to his aid when he has 50K vs 30K and the engagement has just started.

It's not Ou Sen's HQ under attack. It's not his personal unit under attack. It's not even a case of his army crumbling.

Regardless of Seika's intimidation factor, these are not young men. These are not newly minted generals. These are the chosen vassals of Ou Sen, and they can't seem to hold their cool right now despite the fact they did exactly that at Shukai.

This isn't an issue of creatives choices I don't like. This is about the way those choices executed in the story and I think the way it's been done is wanting.

But here there is no win-condition. Either Ousen dies and the Qin lose the battle, or Shibashou dies and the Zhao don’t lose the battle. There is no benefit to leaving Ousen alone to fight Lord Sheeb, while there was benefit to leaving Ousen at Shukai. So that’s why we’re seeing Akou charge back to help like this. Plus Akou just doesn’t want to lose the ‘greatest man in China’ lol.
We are nowhere near this being the case. SBS came in with a lot of momentum, but now his men are dying all around him, and he has fewer of them.

It's crazy to me people think Ou Sen is such danger based on what has happened so far.

But nah, we saw Kanki’s weakness at Gian, maybe we’ll see Ousen’s weakness at Hango? It would really be some shit if Ousen just up and abandoned the rest of the Qin army by retreating himself, could explain why the Qin will have such enormous casualties this war, because Ousen selfishly retreats and leaves Yotanwa to get hit directly by Shibashou. That would be some shit lol, and would really stress that Ousen is still someone Qin can’t fully trust, since that plot line has yet to be really expanded since the entire Zhao campaign began.
I think Ou Sen's weakness is an intangible thing. It's not like a lack of strategic knowledge with Kan Ki (which imo is one of the worst choices by Hara), it'll be something related to his what Ri Boku claimed made him unable to create a kingdom.

imo, it should've been YTW vs Shi Ba Shou from the beginning. We could've gotten a lot of hype feats for all the Seika generals and there would've been plenty of named characters to kill off.

I don't know if Ou Sen will retreat, but I definitely think it would be an interesting writing choice. Even if Sei was furious over it or mistrusted him more after, they can't afford not to use Ou Sen, so aside from some friction, I don't think there'd be any negative repercussions for Ou Sen.
 
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One of the reasons that Kochou's performance was so disappointing was because of his defensive feat against Ousen and the others. It actually is a pretty impressive feat, too bad he didn't do anything crazy in the arc/war where he was the main antagonist.

and I don't find the fact that Kochou was going to win against Kanki that impressive. He literally had 3 times as many men lol
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I will give Kochou the edge over Ordo and Sei Kai though.
Nah Ordo would beat him. I know we like to clown on him but at the end of the day he’s still the current face of an entire state almost as large as Zhao.
 
One of the reasons that Kochou's performance was so disappointing was because of his defensive feat against Ousen and the others. It actually is a pretty impressive feat, too bad he didn't do anything crazy in the arc/war where he was the main antagonist.

and I don't find the fact that Kochou was going to win against Kanki that impressive. He literally had 3 times as many men lol
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I will give Kochou the edge over Ordo and Sei Kai though.
Ko Chou left smashing the Kan Ki Army to his subordinates.

That battle was going the way it was meant to go, but Ko Chou wasn't complacent at any moment. He was trying to uncover Kan Ki's plans right up until it was too late.

And it was only too late because Hara decided, as a matter of plot, that the HSU arrived half a day early.

How do you take this information and rationalise that reflecting poorly on Ko Chou, when Hara had to literally move heaven and earth to bring about his death in the way he did it?

The Qin side had these generals (+ their subordinates)
  • Ou Sen
  • Yo Tan Wa
  • Kan Ki
  • Ri Shin
  • Ou Hon
  • Mou Ten
& he held them all back for a whole year. There is no logical argument for discrediting Ko Chou.

Express your frustration with Hara's choices all you like, but the argument Ko Chou didn't live up to his reputation is bunk.
 
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TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'𝖘 𝕾𝖕𝖆𝖜𝖓
Nah Ordo would beat him. I know we like to clown on him but at the end of the day he’s still the current face of an entire state almost as large as Zhao.
nah i disagree.

Kochou's a strong enough defensive general to hold off Yotanwa, Kanki and Ousen for a year. He at least has one great feat compared to Ordo's numerous anti feats

Ordo got outplayed in his own hometurf and couldn't beat Shibashou with 10x his number. That's as bad/worse as Gakujou's perfomance against Renpa.

Maybe Ordo has some extremely powerful subordinates that could turn the tide, but for now Kochou wins.

Kochou also even has martial portrayal over Ordo too. He killed quite a few members of that one clan who's supposed to be onpar with the Zenou clan in individual strength. That's more impressive than Ordo negging Walmart Gigakou
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Ko Chou left smashing the Kan Ki Army to his subordinates.

That battle was going the way it was meant to go, but Ko Chou wasn't complacent at any moment. He was trying to uncover Kan Ki's plans right up until it was too late.

And it was only too late because Hara decided, as a matter of plot, that the HSU arrived half a day early.

How do you take this information and rationalise that reflecting poorly on Ko Chou, when Hara had to literally move heaven and earth to bring about his death in the way he did it?

The Qin side had these generals (+ their subordinates)
  • Ou Sen
  • Yo Tan Wa
  • Kan Ki
  • Ri Shin
  • Ou Hon
  • Mou Ten
& Ko Chou held them all back for a whole year. There is no logical argument for discrediting Ko Chou.

Express your frustration with Hara's choices all you like, but the argument Ko Chou didn't live up to his reputation is bunk.
fair.

I wish Hara dedicated a chapter or 2 to Kochou's defenses against Qin.
 
nah i disagree.

Kochou's a strong enough defensive general to hold off Yotanwa, Kanki and Ousen for a year. He at least has one great feat compared to Ordo's numerous anti feats

Ordo got outplayed in his own hometurf and couldn't beat Shibashou with 10x his number. That's as bad/worse as Gakujou's perfomance against Renpa.

Maybe Ordo has some extremely powerful subordinates that could turn the tide, but for now Kochou wins.

Kochou also even has martial portrayal over Ordo too. He killed quite a few members of that one clan who's supposed to be onpar with the Zenou clan in individual strength. That's more impressive than Ordo negging Walmart Gigakou
Well that’s basically expected when Kochou is granted the majority of military resources available to him plus having the natural terrain advantage from being on home turf. Which is why Qin had to counteract that by just getting more soldiers on the front.

I never said he was a bad general, far from it, but a Fire Dragon is not something I am willing to compare him to. Genpou is a fair placement.

Remember who it was that was said to be the closest to the Great Heaven seat. It wasn’t this guy.

Plus, he was about to go on a sob story monologue. That is an anti-feat in of itself.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
He have known Ou Sen wouldn't want anyone attacking Ri Boku without his supervision.
Is this true though? I don’t think it is. Ousen wasn’t exactly panicking when he learned Akou didn’t ask for permission before attacking Riboku. Ousen was acting like he was confident Akou could pull it off. Lol

All of Ou Sen's generals are wanting/trying to come to his aid when he has 50K vs 30K and the engagement has just started.
Because they are now realizing that Riboku has orchestrated this exact scenario. They aren’t panicking because Ousen is under attack, they are panicking because they now understand that the man who defeated Ouki, Gekishin, and Kanki has specifically planned for Ousen to come under attack in this exact situation. They also know that Shibashou repelled Ordo and his mountain lads with a numerical disadvantage and that Shibashou is now one of the Three Great Heavens.

Their panic is 100% justified.

We are nowhere near this being the case. SBS came in with a lot of momentum, but now his men are dying all around him, and he has fewer of them.
Huh? Lol

Some of the men personally fighting with Shibashou have traded lives with Ousen’s, where is Shibashou’s army dying all around him? His army itself is fine. They just took a 20k pincer from Kanjou and barely flinched, and Shibashou himself is leading the charge for Ousen.

I think Ou Sen's weakness is an intangible thing. It's like a lack of strategic knowledge with Kan Ki (which imo is one of the worst choices by Hara), it'll be something related to his what Ri Boku claimed made him unable to create a kingdom.
Ousen’s weakness was foreshadowed by Reiou and Houmei, by King Shou not trusting him, by Renpa calling his prioritization of his own life over Mougou’s “a huge blunder”, and by Heki remarking that Ousen doesn’t even view his own men as allies:


Ousen’s weakness is that he cares about himself and his own life over victory. Ousen would sooner watch 250k Qin men die in vein if it meant he himself survives. It’s been a while since Hara has stressed this about him but we absolutely should not forget that this is the case with him. As soon as the battle becomes unwinnable, Ousen will throw any and everyone under the bus to save his own skin.

The SBS slander has begun
:kobeha:

A 3HG never dissapoints people
:jordanmf:
I’m obviously not slandering Shibashou’s ability or the 3GH name (praise be to the Godboku), but I am tired of Hara baiting us with Shibashou lol. I want to see why exactly Hara has spent 5 years hyping this guy.
 
i see a bunch of unknown or retired generals show up for other states like they did for Zhao
GHM: my dad always tried to get lord Taimou to join the wei7 but he always refused
They say his strength surpasses that of even Gaimou
Or i need to visit lord Gokai
Everyone sweating: you mean that Gokai? The.. the legendary General?
Yes. The only man that defeated my Father
He was the teacher of Koshou of the 6gg
 
Y'all telling on yourselves.

Ko Chou held it down against Ou Sen, Yo Tan Wa and Kan Ki for a year. Hara wrote his defeat being the result of a race against time he was fated to lose, not because of Kan Ki but because the HSU arrived half a day early.

It ain't on Hara if you refuse to engage with the material in front of you.
Dunno about the others but me and @Bullet were talking about Kochou martially.
Sbs panels haven't been hyped
He hasn't delivered thus far but let's wait

It's still funny when you look back and see how guys kill 12, 16 or maybe more dudes with their first swing yet the guardian diety killed like 6 before he had to kill himself
Hope SBS doesn't pull a Kochou
Kochou's rep was fake news. :kriwhat:
Kochou got hyped as a Fierce General that "even demons feared" only to punk out like a wuss after sitting watching his men die and getting verbally pimp slapped by Kanki. Bloke just stabbed his own neck and took down a handful of fodder. Every one of his immediate subordinates got to look cool in a fight but not Kochou himself. Rihaku was blowing the wrong fella to hype up in a scrap. Lol.
 
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