Controversial General Political Discussion
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@Logiko Those two tribes you mentioned were (are actually) Central America tribes. The 70 million figure is associated with the genocide of natives of North America(a bullshit number that actually represents an estimate of the native population in North America in 1492~1500). Columbus definetily didn't abuse millions because his adventure was short lived(1492-1504). The population of South and Central America is composed of a mixture of Europpean-Native-Black people.
Portuguese and Spanish pretty much created a new Ethnicity/race. Very different from the shy English and French. You probably never researched shit by yourself and is probably spewing shit you heard on your fancy french school. Most of the natives died off simply because their bodies couldn't produce the antibodies for all the diseases the europpeans carried.
You really think a couple of hundred of europpeans could kill millions of natives with fucking black powder guns? The rape accusations are even more ridiculous. Am i denying there were ponctual episodes of violence in the colonization of Latin America?No,of course,they happened. The difference is they weren't systematic like the in North America.
The British did systematically wipe out the natives,just look at those kid cartoons were they depict Natives and Europpeans slinging lead and arrows,but of course revisionists will equal the Spaniards and Portuguese to the British.
Source for the 70 million estimate:
https://www.se.edu/native-american/...s/49/2019/09/A-NAS-2017-Proceedings-Smith.pdf
One more thing,google what mestizo means.
He failed pretty badly at his goals if you ask me. A good example of believing in hearsay and not actually asking people that were directly involved in these episodes. I doubt he even talked online with any Europpean from a former soviet satellite.
Portuguese and Spanish pretty much created a new Ethnicity/race. Very different from the shy English and French. You probably never researched shit by yourself and is probably spewing shit you heard on your fancy french school. Most of the natives died off simply because their bodies couldn't produce the antibodies for all the diseases the europpeans carried.
You really think a couple of hundred of europpeans could kill millions of natives with fucking black powder guns? The rape accusations are even more ridiculous. Am i denying there were ponctual episodes of violence in the colonization of Latin America?No,of course,they happened. The difference is they weren't systematic like the in North America.
The British did systematically wipe out the natives,just look at those kid cartoons were they depict Natives and Europpeans slinging lead and arrows,but of course revisionists will equal the Spaniards and Portuguese to the British.
Source for the 70 million estimate:
https://www.se.edu/native-american/...s/49/2019/09/A-NAS-2017-Proceedings-Smith.pdf
One more thing,google what mestizo means.
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He failed pretty badly at his goals if you ask me. A good example of believing in hearsay and not actually asking people that were directly involved in these episodes. I doubt he even talked online with any Europpean from a former soviet satellite.
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You understand and yet you criticize their actions.. It illogical. Either you understand why we fight the way we do, or you don't.
In reality no actions really works.
We can't debate with the far right (despite what I'm doing in this thread) beacuse its will automatically strenghten them.
We can't discuss with conservatist because our ideology is "too much"
We can't convince liberals because they have the power and they will do everything to prevent anyone from changing the status co
So the only way we can't fight is through time.
A leftist that understand why women call men trash perfectly understand the importance of saying that and the fact that there is absolutely ZERO mysoginy behind that statement.
We are not here to convince the average people. The average people are enabling the power, the average people have no interest in the change of the status co. You don't see calling men trash here and you never see me insult anyone. And yet, even when I bring scientific evidences to convince with reason and not emotion, those evidences are simply ignored.
So here, I'm not really talking to the far right, I'm talking to leftist people who could appear on this thread and see that there is a contradiction of the far right and stay in the process.
This is what we must do : unite and strenghten the left. This is why having strong and clear values based on clear evidences is important.
Understanding why someone think the way they think doesn't mean that we must have empathy for them. There is no empathy to have in front of someone denying a genocide or denying the impact of capitalism on world wide poverty.
I understand why they think that way, but I don't have to empathize with them. They don't deserve my feelings just yet.
One thing you you start to look for is moments where the left actually aknowledge the change that someone is making. We are not hating because we must hate. We are hating because its the reasonnable and only viable answer to toxic ideologies. Once people understand that they are wrong, we recieve them with open arms (well, relatively to what they were defending before of course)
The left, right now, is the only wall between democracies and the fascization of society. What is happening in Palestine and Israel right now is only but the beginning. What you can hear from Israelian leaders, you can expect to hear 10 times worse when the reality of climate change will hit and when there will be a real migration of people around the world.
The water wars... The rise of far right ideologies all around the world.. The dehumanization of minorities.. If if we going the way we are now, its gonna be a bloodbath. And it will be too late to blame the real culprits behind those situations.
No one says that. That only how the right think about the left.
No mate.. A lot of people are thinking against the movement, even in the left. They are not labbeled because of that. They are wrong, but not labbeled.
Those who I labbel here are those who are depicting real toxic ideologies. Someone who defend far right laws and governement and value will be called a far right. Someone that denies the existence of trans people will be called a transphobe, someone who says that there is not a right side and a left side will be called a confusionnist or a apolitical depending on the discourse etc.. There is always a reason behind those labels. I don't use them for nothing.
Well if you consider the carabbeans as part of Central america then yes. The point was to give you the starting point of the genocide that extended all over the american continent.
Hm no. it also uncompass everything that happens in south america. 70 Million dead is already more than enough, let's not add more death on the counting table.
Personnally I don't know if he did, its not mentionned, but his men absolutely did. In any case, he ordered some massacre to happen.. And I tell you that despite the fact that I was a huge christoper colombus fan when I was young.
Because everyone else was killed yes.
Ew
I'm literally reading a sociological research 300 long book about the genocide of America detailing how people were killed but also how people resisted. Created by two sociologist in collaboration with anthropological works.. but yeah... i don't do my researches..
lmao
Especially when those native are welcoming at first..
Well I didn't say anything about rape, but this was definitely a thing yet. This genocide was absolutely horrible.
Wow.. genocide denyers.. between you and Herrera I'm really touching the epicenter of of monstruosity.
The british did do that. But they were not alone. And the south Europeans already did quite the genocide when british settlers arrived in the far west.
So you are giving me a source proving you wrong ? How peculiar...
Thanks mate
In reality no actions really works.
We can't debate with the far right (despite what I'm doing in this thread) beacuse its will automatically strenghten them.
We can't discuss with conservatist because our ideology is "too much"
We can't convince liberals because they have the power and they will do everything to prevent anyone from changing the status co
So the only way we can't fight is through time.
A leftist that understand why women call men trash perfectly understand the importance of saying that and the fact that there is absolutely ZERO mysoginy behind that statement.
We are not here to convince the average people. The average people are enabling the power, the average people have no interest in the change of the status co. You don't see calling men trash here and you never see me insult anyone. And yet, even when I bring scientific evidences to convince with reason and not emotion, those evidences are simply ignored.
So here, I'm not really talking to the far right, I'm talking to leftist people who could appear on this thread and see that there is a contradiction of the far right and stay in the process.
This is what we must do : unite and strenghten the left. This is why having strong and clear values based on clear evidences is important.
Understanding why someone think the way they think doesn't mean that we must have empathy for them. There is no empathy to have in front of someone denying a genocide or denying the impact of capitalism on world wide poverty.
I understand why they think that way, but I don't have to empathize with them. They don't deserve my feelings just yet.
One thing you you start to look for is moments where the left actually aknowledge the change that someone is making. We are not hating because we must hate. We are hating because its the reasonnable and only viable answer to toxic ideologies. Once people understand that they are wrong, we recieve them with open arms (well, relatively to what they were defending before of course)
The left, right now, is the only wall between democracies and the fascization of society. What is happening in Palestine and Israel right now is only but the beginning. What you can hear from Israelian leaders, you can expect to hear 10 times worse when the reality of climate change will hit and when there will be a real migration of people around the world.
The water wars... The rise of far right ideologies all around the world.. The dehumanization of minorities.. If if we going the way we are now, its gonna be a bloodbath. And it will be too late to blame the real culprits behind those situations.
No one says that. That only how the right think about the left.
No mate.. A lot of people are thinking against the movement, even in the left. They are not labbeled because of that. They are wrong, but not labbeled.
Those who I labbel here are those who are depicting real toxic ideologies. Someone who defend far right laws and governement and value will be called a far right. Someone that denies the existence of trans people will be called a transphobe, someone who says that there is not a right side and a left side will be called a confusionnist or a apolitical depending on the discourse etc.. There is always a reason behind those labels. I don't use them for nothing.
Well if you consider the carabbeans as part of Central america then yes. The point was to give you the starting point of the genocide that extended all over the american continent.
Hm no. it also uncompass everything that happens in south america. 70 Million dead is already more than enough, let's not add more death on the counting table.
Personnally I don't know if he did, its not mentionned, but his men absolutely did. In any case, he ordered some massacre to happen.. And I tell you that despite the fact that I was a huge christoper colombus fan when I was young.
Because everyone else was killed yes.
Ew
I'm literally reading a sociological research 300 long book about the genocide of America detailing how people were killed but also how people resisted. Created by two sociologist in collaboration with anthropological works.. but yeah... i don't do my researches..
lmao
Especially when those native are welcoming at first..
Well I didn't say anything about rape, but this was definitely a thing yet. This genocide was absolutely horrible.
Wow.. genocide denyers.. between you and Herrera I'm really touching the epicenter of of monstruosity.
The british did do that. But they were not alone. And the south Europeans already did quite the genocide when british settlers arrived in the far west.
So you are giving me a source proving you wrong ? How peculiar...
Thanks mate
On top of being a bigot,you are racist now too. Lmfao. You sir are the complete package of a scumbag.
The summary,the 70 million figure has nothing to do with central or south america.You claim to be so well read and yet can't read a few paragraphs:
"In sum, for the entire present-day United States from 1492 to the present, the total number of Indigenous deaths includes the 12 million estimated by Thornton; the additional approximately 790,000 deaths that occurred in Hawaii, Alaska, in Puerto Rico; and about 200,000 excess deaths since 1900. Thus, the Indigenous Holocaust in this country appears to have taken around 13 million lives. Signally, this horrific number of deaths was only a very small portion of the mind-numbing Holocaust throughout the Western Hemisphere. When Thornton’s estimated hemispheric population decline of 70 million is multiplied by 2.5, the total number of Indigenous deaths throughout the Western Hemisphere between 1492 and 1900 appears to be about 175 million.67 And the number of Indigenous people who have died in the hemisphere because of war, repression, racism, and harsh conditions of life since 1900 surely runs into the millions.68 By any reckoning, the Indigenous Holocaust in the Western Hemisphere was, as Stannard has pointed out, “the worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed.” No words or numbers can adequately convey the scale of the horror and tragedy involved in the greatest sustained loss of human life in history. Still, it seems to this researcher that understanding the scope and dimensions of the Indigenous Holocaust is an important first step toward collective political action which addresses the needs, interests, and aspirations of Indigenous people today—and which ensures that such a holocaust will never happen again."
The summary,the 70 million figure has nothing to do with central or south america.You claim to be so well read and yet can't read a few paragraphs:
"In sum, for the entire present-day United States from 1492 to the present, the total number of Indigenous deaths includes the 12 million estimated by Thornton; the additional approximately 790,000 deaths that occurred in Hawaii, Alaska, in Puerto Rico; and about 200,000 excess deaths since 1900. Thus, the Indigenous Holocaust in this country appears to have taken around 13 million lives. Signally, this horrific number of deaths was only a very small portion of the mind-numbing Holocaust throughout the Western Hemisphere. When Thornton’s estimated hemispheric population decline of 70 million is multiplied by 2.5, the total number of Indigenous deaths throughout the Western Hemisphere between 1492 and 1900 appears to be about 175 million.67 And the number of Indigenous people who have died in the hemisphere because of war, repression, racism, and harsh conditions of life since 1900 surely runs into the millions.68 By any reckoning, the Indigenous Holocaust in the Western Hemisphere was, as Stannard has pointed out, “the worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed.” No words or numbers can adequately convey the scale of the horror and tragedy involved in the greatest sustained loss of human life in history. Still, it seems to this researcher that understanding the scope and dimensions of the Indigenous Holocaust is an important first step toward collective political action which addresses the needs, interests, and aspirations of Indigenous people today—and which ensures that such a holocaust will never happen again."
What you are talking about is twitter feminism
Which isnt the same as the large scale feminist political movement, the latter of which is focused on an agenda of improving the lives of women(and all people).
They’re the people who march for women’s reproductive rights and to stop crimes against women.
Which isnt the same as the large scale feminist political movement, the latter of which is focused on an agenda of improving the lives of women(and all people).
They’re the people who march for women’s reproductive rights and to stop crimes against women.
The number of death in Abya Yala (the native nama for the american continent) following the debarkation of Christopher Colombus on Guanahaní (San Salvador Island) are as followed:
Caraibes:
- NHBA (number of habitant before the arrival of the colonizers) : 4 Millions
- NVB (Number of victims of the genocide) : 4 Millions
Mexico:
- NHBA : 25 Millions
- NVB : 23 Millions
Andes:
- NHBA : 15 Millions
- NVB: 14 Millions
Brazil:
- NHBA : 5 Millions
- NVB: 4 Millions
USA:
- NHBA : 18 Millions
- NVB: 16 Millions
Canada:
- NHBA : 2 Millions
- NVB : 1.8 Millions
And around 90% of 13 000 000 of people were exterminated in central America.
This was the BIGGEST genocide in human history.
Source : "Abya Yala!: Genocício, resistência e sobrevivência dos povos originários do atual continente americano" - A sociological report by Moema VIezzer and Marcelo Grondin
Caraibes:
- NHBA (number of habitant before the arrival of the colonizers) : 4 Millions
- NVB (Number of victims of the genocide) : 4 Millions
Mexico:
- NHBA : 25 Millions
- NVB : 23 Millions
Andes:
- NHBA : 15 Millions
- NVB: 14 Millions
Brazil:
- NHBA : 5 Millions
- NVB: 4 Millions
USA:
- NHBA : 18 Millions
- NVB: 16 Millions
Canada:
- NHBA : 2 Millions
- NVB : 1.8 Millions
And around 90% of 13 000 000 of people were exterminated in central America.
This was the BIGGEST genocide in human history.
Source : "Abya Yala!: Genocício, resistência e sobrevivência dos povos originários do atual continente americano" - A sociological report by Moema VIezzer and Marcelo Grondin
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I
Unfortunately, it's not "twitter feminism"
I talk to women every single day, i study with them, i work with them and i live with them
i was raised alongside two older and sisters and by my mother
i've talked countless times with them about society and their experiences
i'm studying accounting as a second degree, with has a much better balance of gender representation on each class compared to the reality of Computer Science i experienced before
I work on a project lead by incredible teachers (women) who have experience in the field for over 30 years
No matter the age or the level of education, women have adopted some level of hatred torwards men
and that is completely logical, i understand why they think they do, personal experiences create a shadow over their view of the entire group of people
all their experiences are valid
the problem is when Feminism is based on equality for all, but today is spoken in a way as to complete attack men, there won't be any good results
my entire point is that the left is pushing men, especially young men, to the center or the right because of it
and the left is refusing to even acknowledge this or think about ways to solve it
Not even close, but give it 10 years and it's gonna be a massive fucking headache to everyone
I talk to women every single day, i study with them, i work with them and i live with them
i was raised alongside two older and sisters and by my mother
i've talked countless times with them about society and their experiences
i'm studying accounting as a second degree, with has a much better balance of gender representation on each class compared to the reality of Computer Science i experienced before
I work on a project lead by incredible teachers (women) who have experience in the field for over 30 years
No matter the age or the level of education, women have adopted some level of hatred torwards men
and that is completely logical, i understand why they think they do, personal experiences create a shadow over their view of the entire group of people
all their experiences are valid
the problem is when Feminism is based on equality for all, but today is spoken in a way as to complete attack men, there won't be any good results
my entire point is that the left is pushing men, especially young men, to the center or the right because of it
and the left is refusing to even acknowledge this or think about ways to solve it
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Like this is society's biggest or only problem 
"Signally, this horrific number of deaths was only a very small portion of the mind-numbing Holocaust throughout the Western Hemisphere. When Thornton’s estimated hemispheric population decline of 70 million is multiplied by 2.5, the total number of Indigenous deaths throughout the Western Hemisphere between 1492 and 1900 appears to be about 175 million.67 And the number of Indigenous people who have died in the hemisphere because of war, repression, racism, and harsh conditions of life since 1900 surely runs into the millions."
175 million deaths are estimate to the total population of native americans from south to north. Death doesn't mean they were all massacred,they were already mostly dying off due to climate change (droughts) and lack of food. Europpean colonization only accelerated this process by adding a pathogenical component to the tragedy. The exact number of people killed by europpean settlers is unknow,but the estimate is into thousands to millions. I knew you would misunderstand that quote before i logged off.
I did edit my quote,because Columbus party did have some encounter with natives turn violent.
Quote the book here. I want to know the authors. Most of natives died off,true. But not by bullets and swords. They were done in by epidemics and starvation. I have nothing else to add to this.
@Logiko if the Chinese are responsible for Covid,are they genociders too?
Fuck you,Loli. You eat propaganda like candy.
If there are,it doesn't matter to me. I'm not american.
I see plenty of this type irl too.
@Logiko it seems that indeed that 70million figure is about the entire hemisphere lol I read that shit fast around 2am. I blame brain for the mistake. Still,deaths=doesn't equal to massacres. Most of the natives died due to disease and famine.
There isn't a precise way to measure the population number at the time and the victims of violence,so these numbers are obviously bullshit. The fact that most Latin Americans have some % of native blood in them contradicts this narrative that the Spanish and Portuguese went around on a killing spree. I still want the source material you are reading. Pretty sure its some anti-europpean leftie cooking up more propaganda to shit on Europpean history.
175 million deaths are estimate to the total population of native americans from south to north. Death doesn't mean they were all massacred,they were already mostly dying off due to climate change (droughts) and lack of food. Europpean colonization only accelerated this process by adding a pathogenical component to the tragedy. The exact number of people killed by europpean settlers is unknow,but the estimate is into thousands to millions. I knew you would misunderstand that quote before i logged off.
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Are teachers above students in hierarchy?
what nameless posted:
what logiko quoted:
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what nameless posted:
what logiko quoted:
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Quote the book here. I want to know the authors. Most of natives died off,true. But not by bullets and swords. They were done in by epidemics and starvation. I have nothing else to add to this.
@Logiko if the Chinese are responsible for Covid,are they genociders too?
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Like this is society's biggest or only problem
You shouldn't waste your time arguing about indigenous south American genocide with this guy. He is completely delusional and two faced when it comes to this topic.
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You shouldn't waste your time arguing about indigenous south American genocide with this guy. He is completely delusional and two faced when it comes to this topic.
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If there are,it doesn't matter to me. I'm not american.
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I see plenty of this type irl too.
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@Logiko it seems that indeed that 70million figure is about the entire hemisphere lol I read that shit fast around 2am. I blame brain for the mistake. Still,deaths=doesn't equal to massacres. Most of the natives died due to disease and famine.
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There isn't a precise way to measure the population number at the time and the victims of violence,so these numbers are obviously bullshit. The fact that most Latin Americans have some % of native blood in them contradicts this narrative that the Spanish and Portuguese went around on a killing spree. I still want the source material you are reading. Pretty sure its some anti-europpean leftie cooking up more propaganda to shit on Europpean history.
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