@Sir Yasheen , you're one of the most reasonable users on this forum, c'mon.... There's a difference "I chose to do x because I wanted to" and "I chose to do x because I had to". Do most people want to, say, work? Yes an no, on the one hand you have to work to pay your bills (unless someone does it for you), on another hand, you try to find something enjoyable in the fact that you gotta work, look for some interesting stuff to do, etc. even to the point when a lot of people cannot imagine their lives without work. But if everyone was given a chance to do whatever and still be provided for, the amount of people working would definitely go down.
General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Uncle Van
- Start date
- Tags #c4ng2g carrot fans are still losers carrot haters are real losers seethe at the rabbit carrot is doing nothing because she doesn't matter carrot will never join the straw hats carrot's story never even began cry about carrot everyone else in the verse neg diffs the bunny imagine thinking stussy won't join its over furry bros keep the bunny on zou nobody else needs her let it go furry bros momo is breeding yamato no character is less relevant than carrot oden larper fans can't read stussy > carrot & yamato stussy supremacy who will be the next nakama of the week? yamato always had a better chance than carrot yamato story is over
But Yamato didn’t have to is the thing. She stayed in Wano cause she didn’t want to have regrets or worries. That’s the point is the thing.
She may want to adventure, but she told Luffy she wants to stay in Wano because she wouldn’t be able to enjoy the adventure cause she’d be too worried about her home.
Unlike the other straw hats, Yamato couldn’t cut her ties to her home. It’s more like Vivi than jinbe
She may want to adventure, but she told Luffy she wants to stay in Wano because she wouldn’t be able to enjoy the adventure cause she’d be too worried about her home.
Unlike the other straw hats, Yamato couldn’t cut her ties to her home. It’s more like Vivi than jinbe
Bro, just say nothing will convince you. You made your position clear.
It still doesn't change that Because Wano couldn't face danger defenseless, that Yamato has to give up her freedom of joining SH's. Even though at the time, Myself at least thought that Oda was just smoking bullshit with this reason, what other actual reason could it be, nothing otherwise her character (She wanted to join Luffy and followed his career etc) just doesn't make any sense.
And I'll continue to believe Oda just fucked up until otherwise.
You are being Intellectually Dishonest here. Pushing a specific narrative for your PoV.
Danger can pass. Wano just got done with a Civil War if you will, Danger can also be preoccupied.
But this is all just whataboutism from you etc.
Deep down we all know Oda just made up a bullshit reason.
It still doesn't change that Because Wano couldn't face danger defenseless, that Yamato has to give up her freedom of joining SH's. Even though at the time, Myself at least thought that Oda was just smoking bullshit with this reason, what other actual reason could it be, nothing otherwise her character (She wanted to join Luffy and followed his career etc) just doesn't make any sense.
And I'll continue to believe Oda just fucked up until otherwise.
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You are being Intellectually Dishonest here. Pushing a specific narrative for your PoV.
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Danger can pass. Wano just got done with a Civil War if you will, Danger can also be preoccupied.
But this is all just whataboutism from you etc.
Deep down we all know Oda just made up a bullshit reason.
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Yamato didn't stay behind because she wanted to, she did it because she had to.
Her desire to still want to sail was made explicitly clear in the flashback, but because everyone in Wano basically sucks, she made her choice.
Saying she stayed behind because it's what she wanted is a tad disingenuous because again, she didn't want to she had to.
Her desire to still want to sail was made explicitly clear in the flashback, but because everyone in Wano basically sucks, she made her choice.
Saying she stayed behind because it's what she wanted is a tad disingenuous because again, she didn't want to she had to.
Luffy got upset when she told him she was staying behind, because he had already thought the deal sealed.
Luffy still understood 100% the why, and didn't drag her along like he did to Sanji/Franky because he knows she was right. She can still join later if Momonosuke actually trains. We saw how far Koby got in a month, and he doesn't have Kaidos fruit.
She'll join once he's got some haki.
Luffy still understood 100% the why, and didn't drag her along like he did to Sanji/Franky because he knows she was right. She can still join later if Momonosuke actually trains. We saw how far Koby got in a month, and he doesn't have Kaidos fruit.
She'll join once he's got some haki.
Moreover, in a way she's following Luffy's orders - Luffy asked her to look out for Momo when he was small and encourage / help him when fighting Kaido and keep protecting him when Kaido was gone.
So yeah, it's a mix of Vivi/Jinbe, and Oda may spin it anyway he wants - either leave Yamato in Wano b/c Wano needs her or make Momo strong enough to handle it himself and let Yamato go.
So yeah, it's a mix of Vivi/Jinbe, and Oda may spin it anyway he wants - either leave Yamato in Wano b/c Wano needs her or make Momo strong enough to handle it himself and let Yamato go.
"Help Momo":
"Take care of Momo"
"Watch out for him"
And really, he needs it, just look at him
"Take care of Momo"
"Watch out for him"
And really, he needs it, just look at him
And yet, I'm agreeing with you here lol
People who think Yamato will return to join the crew completely missed her storyarc in Wano.
Her dream - again - is not the sea, it never was. Yamato's only goal was freedom and this is what she accomplished.
Yamato didn't "had to", she "choosed to"
Choice is part of freedom and Yamato was not forced in anything here. Oden also "had to" stay and still didn't make that choice. Yamato actually made it.
Yamato's story is ALL ABOUT her own choices in front of pressure. Through Yamato, Oda made a statement about parenthood and the fact that kids should always be able to choose what they want to do even if this choice is driven by responsibilities.
Kaido literally wanted to make Yamato the maleficient deity of Wano. Instead, Yamato choosed to do the COMPLETE OPPOSITE and became a benevolant gardian of Wano because of the influence of Luffy, Momo and Oden.
The story of Yamato therefore ended on that choice.
Responsibilities are still part of a choice. Vivi also had to and yet she still choosed to stay. Both occurences were choices made in complete understanding of the situation.
The fact that those people "had to do it" are ONLY a non diegetic parameters that WE, the readers, know because its the choices that we have calculate has those making the most positive outcomes. But the character is the hearth of action is not supposed to know what are really the best choices to make until they make it.
Those both Vivi and Yamato choosed. No pressure was put over them. They were free to do so.
People who think Yamato will return to join the crew completely missed her storyarc in Wano.
Her dream - again - is not the sea, it never was. Yamato's only goal was freedom and this is what she accomplished.
Yamato didn't "had to", she "choosed to"
Choice is part of freedom and Yamato was not forced in anything here. Oden also "had to" stay and still didn't make that choice. Yamato actually made it.
Yamato's story is ALL ABOUT her own choices in front of pressure. Through Yamato, Oda made a statement about parenthood and the fact that kids should always be able to choose what they want to do even if this choice is driven by responsibilities.
Kaido literally wanted to make Yamato the maleficient deity of Wano. Instead, Yamato choosed to do the COMPLETE OPPOSITE and became a benevolant gardian of Wano because of the influence of Luffy, Momo and Oden.
The story of Yamato therefore ended on that choice.
Responsibilities are still part of a choice. Vivi also had to and yet she still choosed to stay. Both occurences were choices made in complete understanding of the situation.
The fact that those people "had to do it" are ONLY a non diegetic parameters that WE, the readers, know because its the choices that we have calculate has those making the most positive outcomes. But the character is the hearth of action is not supposed to know what are really the best choices to make until they make it.
Those both Vivi and Yamato choosed. No pressure was put over them. They were free to do so.
Ok, let's forget about OP for a minute.
Imagine you live in a small village near the woods with your grandpa and little brother. You have spent all your life here, and you are the strongest person in that village. You have always dreamt to explore the world, but your village from time to time gets attacked by wild boars. You are the only one to fend them off, your brother tries his best, but he's not there yet. No one else in the village can fight the boars as well as you do. The whole village depends on you to survive those attacks.
Do you want to leave the village? Yes, you've dreamt about it for 20 years!
Can you leave the village? Technically yes, but you know that the boars will attack it and there will be casualties.
Would you leave it once your brother is strong enough to fight the boars on his own? Most likely, because you have that dream of seeing the world.
Do you chose to stay in the village till then? Yes, because you don't want your family to die.
So, do you chose something because you want to or because you have to?
In my opinion, you're not really free, but if you disagree - well I don't have the power to convince you.
Imagine you live in a small village near the woods with your grandpa and little brother. You have spent all your life here, and you are the strongest person in that village. You have always dreamt to explore the world, but your village from time to time gets attacked by wild boars. You are the only one to fend them off, your brother tries his best, but he's not there yet. No one else in the village can fight the boars as well as you do. The whole village depends on you to survive those attacks.
Do you want to leave the village? Yes, you've dreamt about it for 20 years!
Can you leave the village? Technically yes, but you know that the boars will attack it and there will be casualties.
Would you leave it once your brother is strong enough to fight the boars on his own? Most likely, because you have that dream of seeing the world.
Do you chose to stay in the village till then? Yes, because you don't want your family to die.
So, do you chose something because you want to or because you have to?
In my opinion, you're not really free, but if you disagree - well I don't have the power to convince you.
This is where your comparison ends. Yamato never dreamed to explore the world, she only wanted to be free and was extremelly excited by the sea because of the journey of Oden. What Yamato was seeking was the feeling Oden felt and she achieved that feeling through her own choice.
Choosing to stay because its the responsible thing to do is still a choice.
What we all need to understand is that Yamato didn't choose between her dream and her responsibility. It was never her dream to go at sea, only a path toward what she viewed as freedom through the eyes of Oden. Therefore she choosed between two path toward freedom: The path of responsibilities VS the path of the sea. Just like Vivi, this was not a choice made under threat or pressure. Yamato could perfectly choose to go away and the country would have maybe stay fine without her, nobody knows.
What we know is that Yamato made a choice in complete freedom and that what she seeked ALL HER LIFE.
Choosing to stay because its the responsible thing to do is still a choice.
What we all need to understand is that Yamato didn't choose between her dream and her responsibility. It was never her dream to go at sea, only a path toward what she viewed as freedom through the eyes of Oden. Therefore she choosed between two path toward freedom: The path of responsibilities VS the path of the sea. Just like Vivi, this was not a choice made under threat or pressure. Yamato could perfectly choose to go away and the country would have maybe stay fine without her, nobody knows.
What we know is that Yamato made a choice in complete freedom and that what she seeked ALL HER LIFE.
The subtext and text in regards to Yamato are in conflict and have been since Yamato was first introduced. The subtext screamed stay and not a Strawhat. The text screamed leave and a Strawhat just as loud. And Oda proceeded to fumble the whole of Yamato's story as to leave every one still arguing about it because nothing was solved in a way that was satisfying and made sense. Can't everyone at least agree on that?
The subtext and text in regards to Yamato are in conflict and have been since Yamato was first introduced. The subtext screamed stay and not a Strawhat. The text screamed leave and a Strawhat just as loud. And Oda proceeded to fumble the whole of Yamato's story as to leave every one still arguing about it because nothing was solved in a way that was satisfying and made sense. Can't everyone at least agree on that?
The text was showing us who Yamato thought she had to be. She thought she had to immediately leave Wano to sail the seas. She thought her freedom depended on joining a pirate crew.
Yamato staying in wano was one of the first choices she made for her self. It wasn’t trying to copy someone, it showed Yamato slowly moving past that and being more of herself.
And I do agree with you but Oda wrote it so badly that people can still legitimately ask questions. For many the text is so strong and compelling that it drowns out the subtext. Which was very obvious reading the old thread.
Oda allowed the text and subtext to become to out of sync with each other and this is the result. People able to legitimately argue that Yamato will pull a Jimbei. I personally think the situations are different but I can see why people not only believe it and can argue it without having to resort to some sort of insane reasoning.
Part of the problem is of course that the end of Wano was so rushed that we didn't see Yamato really make the decision so I do see why people argue it wasn't her choice. But just because it wasn't her first choice does not make it any less valid.
Oda allowed the text and subtext to become to out of sync with each other and this is the result. People able to legitimately argue that Yamato will pull a Jimbei. I personally think the situations are different but I can see why people not only believe it and can argue it without having to resort to some sort of insane reasoning.
Part of the problem is of course that the end of Wano was so rushed that we didn't see Yamato really make the decision so I do see why people argue it wasn't her choice. But just because it wasn't her first choice does not make it any less valid.
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You're missing the point. Whether or not she'll worry about Wano is irrelevant. She had to lie to get Momo to accept her staying, so when he finds out about it, he'll send her away. Just like the chefs pretended to hate Sanji, Doctor Kureha threw axes at Chopper, and the Franky family played keep away with Franky's speedo. I don't say "no problem" as in she won't worry, but as in she'll actually leave this time without some kind of scheme to convince Momo.
She had to lie not to hurt Momos feelings, not so that Momo would allow her to stay. And the chefs did that because Sanji didn’t want to be at the Baratie and everyone knew it. Yamato, does want to actually be in Wano and the reason she stayed was because shed be too worried about Wano to enjoy the adventure.
The point is that Yamato herself, finally made a choice not because of Kaido, and not because of Oden. She herself chose Wano over the sea, the exact opposite as Oden.
The point is that Yamato herself, finally made a choice not because of Kaido, and not because of Oden. She herself chose Wano over the sea, the exact opposite as Oden.