Speculations Perception vs Reality in One Piece and why its important

#1
One of the most important thing that a lot of people fail to do when it comes to power scaling several One Piece character is fail to look at things such as titles, hype statements, rumors with a certain level of Nuance.

The most obvious example of it is Katakuri who although not many people seem to use the hype he received from his siblings as an argument for his superiority over other first commanders of emperors, I have seem some people like @Admiral Lee Hung use that as a legitimate argument. But perception vs reality is even much more so than Kaido, is evident with Katakuri
Perception of Katakuri's siblings of Katakuri vs Reality of Katakuri
Perception vs Reality was very much evident in whole cake Island with Katakuri's siblings buying the false perception that Katakuri has created with his made up perfectionism and a victory record that is supposed to be legendary rest of the world doesn't care about. A record so irrelevant to the unbiased people of the world that they don't recognize him as king of 1v1 fights, instead they recognize Kaido as one. So much so that Big News Morgan didn't even mention Katakuri's undefeated record while giving Luffy his 1.5 Billion belly bounty, I mean he didn't even specifically name drop Katakuri, instead he was just one of the two sweet commanders that Luffy defeated. Obviously if Big News Morgans bought false perception of Katakuri that his siblings did, his defeat would be one of the main focuses of his new article.
So the false perception isn't necessarily that the record exist, instead the weight that the record holds and the legend of it. While his siblings that buy the false perception that Katakuri has created would consider the record the greatest thing that has ever exist, to the rest of the unbiased world, the record doesn't mean much. Even to someone who was trying to glorify straw hat Luffy's accomplishment and make him look as great as he possible can to annoy Big Mom, the worth of Katakuri's title wasn't enough to give him a name drop in the article.
Another important thing to consider is that it is very hard to believe he has faced likes of King and Marco when Oda made a big deal of the fact that he hit his back to the floor for the very first time when he faced Luffy. I am not willing to take a leap of faith that Katakuri has defeated likes of Marco, Katakuri or even Vista in a low difficulty effort without his back touching the floor even once. So it was just an empty hype statement from people who admire him. Maybe he has undefeated record but undefeated record hardly means anything when you have only faced scrubs. Zoro was also an undefeated and invincible swordsman in East Blue until Mihawk had to show him that he is nothing more than a mere big fish in a tiny sea or rather big frog in a tiny well.
It is one of the most integral nuance of Katakuri's character that he has created false perception of perfectionism around him that only his siblings believe in. It is very important because one of the most important developments Katakuri received during his fight with Luffy was him attempting to escape that perception and express his true self freely after he took off that mask.

The World's Perception of Kaido vs Reality of Kaido
Another example of it is Kaido and all the hype surrounding him. I have seen many people find weird ways to try to dismiss Kaido's hype and all the statements narrator of the story made regarding him during his introduction. I have heard people say things like "Well his title doesn't apply to human beings as humans are not Creatures" which again the idea of humans not being creatures depending on your definition of creature maybe true, the Japanese word Seibutsu directly translates to "Living Organism" which certainly includes all the humans. Another even more ridiculous argument that I have heard is that "Kaido is only physically strongest and not necessarily strongest overall fighter" which is weird because narrator simply said "In 1v1 battle, always bet on Kaido" before giving him that distinction of strongest creature in the world.

But one logical argument that I hardly hear is regarding the perception of him vs reality.
The perception to the world is that Kaido has won his battle with Kozuki Oden, reality is that he won due to taking unfair advantage. He defeated Oden by having an old lady transform into Momonuske, Oden's son which was enough for Oden to loose his focus and look away from Kaido momentarily and Kaido took advantage of that and smacked Oden on the head with his club and incapacitated him

Although the readers saw Kaido defeat him through underhanded tactics, the history would say Oden lost his battle to Kaido. Its very possible that people of Wano neglected the fact that Kaido won his battle due to underhanded tactic of "using a hostage" to his advantage. I don't know if the rest of the world is aware of Kozuki Oden's defeat to Kaido, although its very possible because it is implied Oden had a bounty and it was likely a very high bounty. But that is not necessarily very important to the topic at hand, instead it gives room to an interesting idea. Perhaps Kaido has won majority of his fights through cheating, dirty tactics, hostages etc but world just looked at his victory record and ran with the idea that Kaido is invincible in 1v1 battle.

I think it is by design as I don't think it is a very smart move from an author's perspective to have someone who represents peak of strength in One Piece show his full power in the middle of the story and then get defeated. It also clashes with Whitebeard and his reputation as the King of his era after Gol D Roger's death all the while Kaido has his title. I mean technically Kaido could have been stronger than Whitebeard this entire time but the lore of One Piece favors Whitebeard over Kaido.


World's Perception of Mihawk vs Reality of Mihawk
Now Mihawk seems to be the kind of guy unlike Kaido where the perception might actually be reality just because of the way Mihawk has been presented in the story, his inner conflict, his personality and his role in the story.

Mihawk has not been presented as the the kind of a guy to cheat or take short cuts of any kind instead he has been presented as polar opposite of that to the point where he wouldn't even face a man who is at a disadvantage due to loss of an arm. His approach to Shanks is that he knows Shanks is simply not strong enough to give him a competitive fight due to having only one arm and if the fight happened he would simply win each time. He can take an unfair victory over Shanks due to Shanks being at a disadvantage but that goes directly against his personality of being against taking unfair advantage because he failed to defeat Shanks at the peak of his power when he had both his arms. Its antithesis of how Kaido views his battles where he has no qualms of taking unfair advantage in the midst of battle and smacking someone in the head from behind.

It is even more evident when he didn't show much interest in Vista and "postponing" their duel simply to never try to find him again. In a sense he treated Vista same way he treated Don Krieg because he is aware Vista isn't someone who can give him a proper fight.
It is important as Mihawk is so desperate to get thrill of battle that he would go to ends of hell to find Vista and finish his fight with him if he truly viewed him as someone who can give him a competitive fight. It is same man who traveled from Grand Line to East Blue on a coffin boat just because one ship slipped by him after he cut down 49 ships.

Obviously Mihawk's title is also perception based, the world perceives Mihawk as the strongest swordsman in the world because of feats that Mihawk has pulled, because of people that Mihawk has defeated. Obviously its not a judges contested title where a few strong swordsman might not have recognized. Its simple just like Kaido, world is recognizing Mihawk as the strongest in the world, be it through his big swordsmanship feats, his duel with Shanks or simply the undefeated victory record he has.

The difference with him and Kaido is that he isn't using underhanded tactics to win his battles as that is simply not his personality. He is more than happy to find somebody who is strong enough to defeat him and take his title from him, as a matter of fact he is desperately looking for someone to defeat him.

Another point that Mihawk has going for him is that he has been shown to be end of be all when it comes to swordsmanship due to the black blade he has, him being the ultimate destination of only main character whose character arc revolves around swordsmanship and become stronger in the way of swordsmanship.

Maybe it is the reason why Oda chose to gave Mihwak and Whitebeard introduction boxes with "World's Strongest" in it while with Kaido he simply called it a rumor.


Anyways in conclusion perception and reality can be the same like in case of Mihawk and can be different like in the case of Katakuri. With Kaido its up in the air because we don't know the path he took after his fight with Kozuki Oden.

 
#3
I agree. Mihawk is perceived to be the WSS but clearly this is just hyperbole because he was only as relevant as Vista was at Marineford, clearly debunking his perception as the WSS.
How does his relevance in Marineford debunk his perception? Vista himself didn't deny Mihawk's title, instead his Vivre Card says Vista recognized Mihawk as someone stronger than him.

Are you just throwing a fit right now, better not comment if you are not gonna add anything productive to the thread and post something you don't even believe in yourself.
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
#4
I think it should be mentioned that Kaido was never stated to be unbeaten, as he’s been captured plenty of times. Just seemingly invincible and especially so in 1 v 1 matches.

But I agree majorly with how you broke down Katakuri’s record and then Mihawk’s. Simply being unbeaten doesn’t matter much when you don’t have any named foes before hand. Whereas Mihawk is the WSS and had duels with a Yonko that not only shook the ground line but went unresolved.
 
#6
I think it should be mentioned that Kaido was never stated to be unbeaten, as he’s been captured plenty of times. Just seemingly invincible and especially so in 1 v 1 matches.

But I agree majorly with how you broke down Katakuri’s record and then Mihawk’s. Simply being unbeaten doesn’t matter much when you don’t have any named foes before hand. Whereas Mihawk is the WSS and had duels with a Yonko that not only shook the ground line but went unresolved.
What about Kaido? Do you believe his hype is absolute or nah someone like Mihawk, Akainu, BB etc can be stronger? I mean it is worth nothing he wasn't shown to be demonstratively stronger than Big Mom and still very much considers her his rival which is completely opposite of current inner conflict between Shanks and Mihawk where Mihawk has lost an interest in Shanks because one armed Shanks is not strong enough to be his competitive rival.
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
#7
Way too long to read everything, but I read some Katakuri downplaying so it's definitely a great post. Nice job!
It’s basically lookin at 3 characters and their in—universe reputation and how Oda treats them. From the thread and manga it’s evident that Oda’s given Mihawk the most respect and validity for his title whereas Kaido himself is a defeated and disputed figure and Katakuri’s record a full out non—factor.
Post automatically merged:

What about Kaido? Do you believe his hype is absolute or nah someone like Mihawk, Akainu, BB etc can be stronger? I mean it is worth nothing he wasn't shown to be demonstratively stronger than Big Mom and still very much considers her his rival which is completely opposite of current inner conflict between Shanks and Mihawk where Mihawk has lost an interest in Shanks because one armed Shanks is not strong enough to be his competitive rival.
Tbh I think it’s definitely more hype and hyperbole these days after the Oden duel and Kaido stalemating LinLin. But I think it still reflects his monstrous prowess to an extent.
 
#8
Tbh I think it’s definitely more hype and hyperbole these days after the Oden duel and Kaido stalemating LinLin. But I think it still reflects his monstrous prowess to an extent.
Well he certainly no slouch when it comes to strength, his attack power is insane to be able to incapacitate durability and endurance freak like Oden and match physical strength of a power house like Big Mom.

But instead the debate is whether or not he is at the peak of current One Piece strength like the rumor would suggest. I mean for what he is betting on him 1v1 is certainly a safe bet, he would defeat 99.9999% of the characters in One Piece, but is there a possibility that maybe those remaining 0.0001% like Mihawk, Akainu etc win?
 
#9
One of the most important thing that a lot of people fail to do when it comes to power scaling several One Piece character is fail to look at things such as titles, hype statements, rumors with a certain level of Nuance.

The most obvious example of it is Katakuri who although not many people seem to use the hype he received from his siblings as an argument for his superiority over other first commanders of emperors, I have seem some people like @Admiral Lee Hung use that as a legitimate argument. But perception vs reality is even much more so than Kaido, is evident with Katakuri
Perception of Katakuri's siblings of Katakuri vs Reality of Katakuri
Perception vs Reality was very much evident in whole cake Island with Katakuri's siblings buying the false perception that Katakuri has created with his made up perfectionism and a victory record that is supposed to be legendary rest of the world doesn't care about. A record so irrelevant to the unbiased people of the world that they don't recognize him as king of 1v1 fights, instead they recognize Kaido as one. So much so that Big News Morgan didn't even mention Katakuri's undefeated record while giving Luffy his 1.5 Billion belly bounty, I mean he didn't even specifically name drop Katakuri, instead he was just one of the two sweet commanders that Luffy defeated. Obviously if Big News Morgans bought false perception of Katakuri that his siblings did, his defeat would be one of the main focuses of his new article.
So the false perception isn't necessarily that the record exist, instead the weight that the record holds and the legend of it. While his siblings that buy the false perception that Katakuri has created would consider the record the greatest thing that has ever exist, to the rest of the unbiased world, the record doesn't mean much. Even to someone who was trying to glorify straw hat Luffy's accomplishment and make him look as great as he possible can to annoy Big Mom, the worth of Katakuri's title wasn't enough to give him a name drop in the article.
Another important thing to consider is that it is very hard to believe he has faced likes of King and Marco when Oda made a big deal of the fact that he hit his back to the floor for the very first time when he faced Luffy. I am not willing to take a leap of faith that Katakuri has defeated likes of Marco, Katakuri or even Vista in a low difficulty effort without his back touching the floor even once. So it was just an empty hype statement from people who admire him. Maybe he has undefeated record but undefeated record hardly means anything when you have only faced scrubs. Zoro was also an undefeated and invincible swordsman in East Blue until Mihawk had to show him that he is nothing more than a mere big fish in a tiny sea or rather big frog in a tiny well.
It is one of the most integral nuance of Katakuri's character that he has created false perception of perfectionism around him that only his siblings believe in. It is very important because one of the most important developments Katakuri received during his fight with Luffy was him attempting to escape that perception and express his true self freely after he took off that mask.

The World's Perception of Kaido vs Reality of Kaido
Another example of it is Kaido and all the hype surrounding him. I have seen many people find weird ways to try to dismiss Kaido's hype and all the statements narrator of the story made regarding him during his introduction. I have heard people say things like "Well his title doesn't apply to human beings as humans are not Creatures" which again the idea of humans not being creatures depending on your definition of creature maybe true, the Japanese word Seibutsu directly translates to "Living Organism" which certainly includes all the humans. Another even more ridiculous argument that I have heard is that "Kaido is only physically strongest and not necessarily strongest overall fighter" which is weird because narrator simply said "In 1v1 battle, always bet on Kaido" before giving him that distinction of strongest creature in the world.

But one logical argument that I hardly hear is regarding the perception of him vs reality.
The perception to the world is that Kaido has won his battle with Kozuki Oden, reality is that he won due to taking unfair advantage. He defeated Oden by having an old lady transform into Momonuske, Oden's son which was enough for Oden to loose his focus and look away from Kaido momentarily and Kaido took advantage of that and smacked Oden on the head with his club and incapacitated him

Although the readers saw Kaido defeat him through underhanded tactics, the history would say Oden lost his battle to Kaido. Its very possible that people of Wano neglected the fact that Kaido won his battle due to underhanded tactic of "using a hostage" to his advantage. I don't know if the rest of the world is aware of Kozuki Oden's defeat to Kaido, although its very possible because it is implied Oden had a bounty and it was likely a very high bounty. But that is not necessarily very important to the topic at hand, instead it gives room to an interesting idea. Perhaps Kaido has won majority of his fights through cheating, dirty tactics, hostages etc but world just looked at his victory record and ran with the idea that Kaido is invincible in 1v1 battle.

I think it is by design as I don't think it is a very smart move from an author's perspective to have someone who represents peak of strength in One Piece show his full power in the middle of the story and then get defeated. It also clashes with Whitebeard and his reputation as the King of his era after Gol D Roger's death all the while Kaido has his title. I mean technically Kaido could have been stronger than Whitebeard this entire time but the lore of One Piece favors Whitebeard over Kaido.


World's Perception of Mihawk vs Reality of Mihawk
Now Mihawk seems to be the kind of guy unlike Kaido where the perception might actually be reality just because of the way Mihawk has been presented in the story, his inner conflict, his personality and his role in the story.

Mihawk has not been presented as the the kind of a guy to cheat or take short cuts of any kind instead he has been presented as polar opposite of that to the point where he wouldn't even face a man who is at a disadvantage due to loss of an arm. His approach to Shanks is that he knows Shanks is simply not strong enough to give him a competitive fight due to having only one arm and if the fight happened he would simply win each time. He can take an unfair victory over Shanks due to Shanks being at a disadvantage but that goes directly against his personality of being against taking unfair advantage because he failed to defeat Shanks at the peak of his power when he had both his arms. Its antithesis of how Kaido views his battles where he has no qualms of taking unfair advantage in the midst of battle and smacking someone in the head from behind.

It is even more evident when he didn't show much interest in Vista and "postponing" their duel simply to never try to find him again. In a sense he treated Vista same way he treated Don Krieg because he is aware Vista isn't someone who can give him a proper fight.
It is important as Mihawk is so desperate to get thrill of battle that he would go to ends of hell to find Vista and finish his fight with him if he truly viewed him as someone who can give him a competitive fight. It is same man who traveled from Grand Line to East Blue on a coffin boat just because one ship slipped by him after he cut down 49 ships.

Obviously Mihawk's title is also perception based, the world perceives Mihawk as the strongest swordsman in the world because of feats that Mihawk has pulled, because of people that Mihawk has defeated. Obviously its not a judges contested title where a few strong swordsman might not have recognized. Its simple just like Kaido, world is recognizing Mihawk as the strongest in the world, be it through his big swordsmanship feats, his duel with Shanks or simply the undefeated victory record he has.

The difference with him and Kaido is that he isn't using underhanded tactics to win his battles as that is simply not his personality. He is more than happy to find somebody who is strong enough to defeat him and take his title from him, as a matter of fact he is desperately looking for someone to defeat him.

Another point that Mihawk has going for him is that he has been shown to be end of be all when it comes to swordsmanship due to the black blade he has, him being the ultimate destination of only main character whose character arc revolves around swordsmanship and become stronger in the way of swordsmanship.

Maybe it is the reason why Oda chose to gave Mihwak and Whitebeard introduction boxes with "World's Strongest" in it while with Kaido he simply called it a rumor.


Anyways in conclusion perception and reality can be the same like in case of Mihawk and can be different like in the case of Katakuri. With Kaido its up in the air because we don't know the path he took after his fight with Kozuki Oden.

When in the world in manga verse did people say he won fairly against oden? Far as i can remember, ever since his death was mentioned it was said that they used underhanded means. Idk what youre saying here.
Like what history are you talking about shishio?
 
#10
When in the world in manga verse did people say he won fairly against oden? Far as i can remember, ever since his death was mentioned it was said that they used underhanded means. Idk what youre saying here.
Like what history are you talking about shishio?
I never said people said people actually SAID "Oden won fairly against Kaido", I just said its possible people of Wano neglected the fact that Kaido cheated or simply weren't aware and instead they just look at him defeated Oden as one of the many Ws he took regardless of the means.

Idk how you equated that to me saying "people say he won fairly against oden", reread the thread and more carefully this time friend :)
 
#11
Well he certainly no slouch when it comes to strength, his attack power is insane to be able to incapacitate durability and endurance freak like Oden and match physical strength of a power house like Big Mom.

But instead the debate is whether or not he is at the peak of current One Piece strength like the rumor would suggest. I mean for what he is betting on him 1v1 is certainly a safe bet, he would defeat 99.9999% of the characters in One Piece, but is there a possibility that maybe those remaining 0.0001% like Mihawk, Akainu etc win?
In odas mind, he seems to view akainu and kaido as the later above him. Atleast referring to the ''joke'' sbs he made about mothers being the strongest creature, even stronger than kaido quote. While it can be seen as a joke and not to be taken seriously, it kinda gives us an idea of whats going on in odas mind imo.
And mihawk being stronger wouldnt make much sense imo as for luffy to surpass roger he would have to defeat admirals/yonko, even rogers didnt win any 1vs1 against another top tier. Certainly not top dogs like admirals/yonko/mihawk, so i disagree there too.
Mihaw/dragon/yonko/admirals are in the top 8 with slight fluctuations in power. Tho i firmly believe in kaido until proven otherwise.
We already knew Oden scarred him, we already knew that some underhanded tactics were at play. So to me, nothing much changed.

@TheAncientCenturion akainu was stronger than aokiji yet it took him 10 days to win, you dont win a battle against a top of the food chain top tier in under a day or two. So i dont get your logic that since he didnt win fast his hype took a hit, if anything its to elevate big mom. Keep in mind he was fighting in his homebase, so using the argument of admirals holding back in marineford. Its a safe bet that he was doing the same, especially since weve seen him fighting her in his base form.

Imo Kaido wins every fight he gets in 1vs1 but its always very high extreme diff as while he is the current strongest, the difference isnt that much.
 
#12
There was no "false perception" of Katakuri though. The statements made about him are from accounts of people who witnessed his accomplishments first hand. Those kind of statements hold much more weight than the statements of those made in hearsay. There is no biasness coming from his siblings here, because they have front row seats to the accomplishments. Brulee proved this as she witnessed the entire fight between Luffy and Katakuri. She could have easily went and told everyone that the fight ended in a stalemate, in which Luffy used that opportunity to escape, or even claim that Katakuri won. But she did not do that. She reported exactly what happened, and that is the fact that Katakuri had finally suffered his first defeat.

Things like what Big News Morgan reported is irrelevant to the hype that Katakuri received. It doesn't matter what is reported to the rest of the world. All that matters is what we the readers witnessed first hand, and the accounts of the characters who witnessed these accomplishments first hand.

Look at Gol D. Roger. The information provided surrounding his capture was completely fabricated by the World Government. They reported to the World that they caught him, and in the eyes of the people that makes the Marines look infinitely more powerful. The hype of the Marines because of the World Governments reports raises dramatically to the people of the World, while to the readers who know what really happened, it diminishes. So I am not entirely sure how you reach the conclusion that hearsay is much better hype than first hand accounts, as stories created by word of mouth tend to become more and more embellish the father the rumors spread.
 
#13
I never said people said people actually SAID "Oden won fairly against Kaido", I just said its possible people of Wano neglected the fact that Kaido cheated or simply weren't aware and instead they just look at him defeated Oden as one of the many Ws he took regardless of the means.

Idk how you equated that to me saying "people say he won fairly against oden", reread the thread and more carefully this time friend :)
Ah, perhaps, but then again the entire world's perception of kaido is that he is the strongest right about now.
Heck the latest canon, the ace novel, has pirates there from the new world debating between themselves wether whitebeard from before ace joined or kaido were n1, while most were leaning towards the later.

Anwyays, oda loves playing with perceptions so perhaps im wrong. But given the way oda keeps hyping him up in and outside of manga, it would be a huge troll move for it not to be the case haha.
 
#14
And mihawk being stronger wouldnt make much sense imo as for luffy to surpass roger he would have to defeat admirals/yonko
I mean its true Luffy does have to defeat them as Mihawk isn't necessarily stopping him from becoming PK, he is no navy fighting pirates, he has no poneglyphs.

That is simply a point ins Mihawk's favor as Luffy has to become stronger than admirals and yonko so they don't stop him, he can be weaker than Mihwak and still be pirate king as Mihawk doesn't give a shit about him being a pirate king and not going to come to stop him. Not saying he will be weaker than Mihawk but being weaker or stronger than Mihawk isn't a factor here.

I feel like you are taking Luffy's statement the wrong way, surpassing yonko and admirals is not to say becoming strongest man is a requirement for PK, I mean Roger certainly wasn't, Whitebeard was equal to him, instead surpassing them so he can defeat them when they come to stop him.

Mihawk and Dragon are not part of this equation as they don't care about PK throne, at least we know Mihawk doesn't. So maybe you can add dragon to that list lmao but not Mihawk.
 
#15
I never said people said people actually SAID "Oden won fairly against Kaido", I just said its possible people of Wano neglected the fact that Kaido cheated or simply weren't aware and instead they just look at him defeated Oden as one of the many Ws he took regardless of the means.

Idk how you equated that to me saying "people say he won fairly against oden", reread the thread and more carefully this time friend :)
In his intro, it never talked about kaido's Ws, just that he fought emperors and marines alone, got captured and yada yada. I feel like his intro is his journey to the top. Just like how when luffy will become PK.

People will say he challenged the WG, the shishibukai and emperors alike. Got captured and defeated and bla bla bla, its basically to hype him up.

This is why i have a problem with people believing characters have stattic powerlevels, i mean kaido was fighting moria lik 3 years before fighting Oden. So unless moria was a top tier or close to it, the idea of kaido's intro and legend being from there seems untrue to me. Especiallly since the yonko system didnt exist back then.

Anyways, good thread.
 
M

MD Zolo

#16
Good analysis. But it should be noted that Kaido didn't exactly intentionally use underhanded tactic. It just happened.

If the Old Hag didn't interfere. Kaido would've possibly perish. But that doesn't indicate that Kaido is a specialist in underhanded tactics. It only indicates that Kaido was probably not as strong as Oden.
 
#17
In his intro, it never talked about kaido's Ws, just that he fought emperors and marines alone, got captured and yada yada. I feel like his intro is his journey to the top. Just like how when luffy will become PK.

People will say he challenged the WG, the shishibukai and emperors alike. Got captured and defeated and bla bla bla, its basically to hype him up.

This is why i have a problem with people believing characters have stattic powerlevels, i mean kaido was fighting moria lik 3 years before fighting Oden. So unless moria was a top tier or close to it, the idea of kaido's intro and legend being from there seems untrue to me. Especiallly since the yonko system didnt exist back then.

Anyways, good thread.
I mean his thread also talks about his numerous Ls but I have no issue if you think he is current strongest. I just don't think his hype is as undisputed as Mihawk's or Whitebeard's though in fairness its not as irrelevant as Katakuri's hype either.
Post automatically merged:

Good analysis. But it should be noted that Kaido didn't exactly intentionally use underhanded tactic. It just happened.

If the Old Hag didn't interfere. Kaido would've possibly perish. But that doesn't indicate that Kaido is a specialist in underhanded tactics. It only indicates that Kaido was probably not as strong as Oden.
Well its just a matter of how many battles did he truly take short cuts in, because issue is unlike Mihawk, he is not above taking a short cut despite showing frustration later on lmao.
 
#18
I mean its true Luffy does have to defeat them as Mihawk isn't necessarily stopping him from becoming PK, he is no navy fighting pirates, he has no poneglyphs.

That is simply a point ins Mihawk's favor as Luffy has to become stronger than admirals and yonko so they don't stop him, he can be weaker than Mihwak and still be pirate king as Mihawk doesn't give a shit about him being a pirate king and not going to come to stop him. Not saying he will be weaker than Mihawk but being weaker or stronger than Mihawk isn't a factor here.

I feel like you are taking Luffy's statement the wrong way, surpassing yonko and admirals is not to say becoming strongest man is a requirement for PK, I mean Roger certainly wasn't, Whitebeard was equal to him, instead surpassing them so he can defeat them when they come to stop him.

Mihawk and Dragon are not part of this equation as they don't care about PK throne, at least we know Mihawk doesn't. So maybe you can add dragon to that list lmao but not Mihawk.
Its not just lluffys statement, chinjao who witnessed prime garp said the same thing, to surpass roger is to ''Trounce'' the admirals and yonko.

Mihawk told luffy that his dream is tougher than becoming WSS. Mihawk is my 3rd favorite character behind Enel and (unironically) zoro, but i doubt luffy's subbordinates goal will be the strongest in verse rn. He is definitely top 4 tho.

Primebeard was the strongest man, roger was his equal yet roger couldnt deal with admirals/emperors. So, the chance of mihawk who is obviously weaker than primebeard/roger being there is kinda low.

Esepcially if we take the ace novel where whitebeard who was still close to prime, before ace joined. Was considered to not be the strongest anymore with kaido challenging his seat.
 
#19
Agree but with a note. Kaido's title is not "the strongest creature", if we want to go there we have to report the whole statement: "people say in a 1 vs 1 fight always bet on Kaido because on earth, sea and air he is said to be the strongest creature", his real title (even if it is more correct to say nickname) is "king of the beasts" and that fits just fine cause he has the strongest zoan df, is the stringest zoan user and has a crew entirely made of zoan users while the strongest ceeature one is already full of holes.
 
J

Jo_Ndule

#20
There was no "false perception" of Katakuri though. The statements made about him are from accounts of people who witnessed his accomplishments first hand. Those kind of statements hold much more weight than the statements of those made in hearsay. There is no biasness coming from his siblings here, because they have front row seats to the accomplishments. Brulee proved this as she witnessed the entire fight between Luffy and Katakuri. She could have easily went and told everyone that the fight ended in a stalemate, in which Luffy used that opportunity to escape, or even claim that Katakuri won. But she did not do that. She reported exactly what happened, and that is the fact that Katakuri had finally suffered his first defeat.

Things like what Big News Morgan reported is irrelevant to the hype that Katakuri received. It doesn't matter what is reported to the rest of the world. All that matters is what we the readers witnessed first hand, and the accounts of the characters who witnessed these accomplishments first hand.

Look at Gol D. Roger. The information provided surrounding his capture was completely fabricated by the World Government. They reported to the World that they caught him, and in the eyes of the people that makes the Marines look infinitely more powerful. The hype of the Marines because of the World Governments reports raises dramatically to the people of the World, while to the readers who know what really happened, it diminishes. So I am not entirely sure how you reach the conclusion that hearsay is much better hype than first hand accounts, as stories created by word of mouth tend to become more and more embellish the father the rumors spread.
He's just desperate that Mihawk hasn't done what he wishes was true.

He doesn't even understand Morgans and WG roles in telling news, the whole Emperor things.
 
Top