Break Week How can you enjoy Kaido in Wano arc?

Kind of unfair to say when we clearly haven't gotten Kaidos backstory yet. We have no idea of:

- his Rocks backstory and relationship with BM
- his actual origins and how he formed his crew with the all Stars and numbers
- his relationship with his daughter
- why he even decided to use Wano as his main territory and why Onigashima was made into a what it is today.
His origins and goals has nothing to do with what you quoted, we're 75 chapters in Wano for fucks sake. look at Doflamingo in Dressrosa and how many scenes and character development we got from him mid arc. In all the 75 Wano chapters, Oda only shifts back to Kaido when he's either drunk or for fighting purposes. Oda would rather spent the time showing us side characters we don't care about and create plot inconsistencies to look as an unpredictable writer.

I'm sorry, if you think Oda tried to build Kaido as a complex antagonist then he failed miserably, and that's not the first time Oda ruined a good character.
 
this seems more like a oden wank thread than a thread with actual arguments

''LMFAO look at 10000000 bitch kaido here, he looks scared as shit HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LMAO XD''
Nothing wrong with some fun :p.

By the way, big mom even back then was for sure stronger than oden. By a good marging. She was ruling her territory uncontested while roger and wb were alive. And roger with prime rayleigh mind you preferred to avoid fighting her and just take the poneglyphs. Same roger ran straight towards oden and punked him.

There are so many hints that while oden was strong he wasnt admiral/yonko strong. But people choose to ignore them for some ungodly reason.
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His origins and goals has nothing to do with what you quoted, we're 75 chapters in Wano for fucks sake. look at Doflamingo in Dressrosa and how many scenes and character development we got from him mid arc. In all the 75 Wano chapters, Oda only shifts back to Kaido when he's either drunk or for fighting purposes. Oda would rather spent the time showing us side characters we don't care about and create plot inconsistencies to look as an unpredictable writer.

I'm sorry, if you think Oda tried to build Kaido as a complex antagonist then he failed miserably, and that's not the first time Oda ruined a good character.
Thats why i think kaido is not falling this arc, a lot of plot buildup with rocks reveal, this bm/kaido alliance, their goal and the new onigashima project and their connection with bb through rocks. A lot of stuff to be revealed and fleshed out.
Usually when a villain is supposed to fall, they have as much screen time if not more than luffy during their arc. They interract a lot with the Shs to create tension and they get super fleshed out. None of those happened to kaido, well we got some stuff in the latest chapters but its not nearly enough, just hints of his personality.
If this keeps up, i think orochi will get deposed and wano liberated with kaido/bm leaving it either defeated or just a retreat of sorts to go accomplish the goal said they would try to do. Conquer the world.
What do you think?
 
Kaido is of course stronger than g
He was 20 years ago, it's not about power scaling but rather Kaido's character overall.
It is better to judge Kaido character after the end of Wano.....for all we know, you might be right about Kaido being "coward" or not "challenging" type around that time....I mean he didn't get WSC or '1 vs 1" hype around that time....it has been 20 years, things can change a lot in that time....so does personality....personality changes are not new...look how Coby changed in a short span of time....

flashback Kaido no way dismisses current Kaido hype...he smashed many SN without effort and two SN already became his bitches and he is holding the whole beast pirate crew based on his strength alone, Orochi could threaten the world government agents just by the name of Kaido, even top marines like Sengoku mentioned that how strong and dangerous Kaido has become etc. You could see what kind of man Kaido was when he allowed to do Luffy whatever he wanted. In the whole fight Kaido didn't even bother to block G4 punches and has shown his disappointment.
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His origins and goals has nothing to do with what you quoted, we're 75 chapters in Wano for fucks sake. look at Doflamingo in Dressrosa and how many scenes and character development we got from him mid arc. In all the 75 Wano chapters, Oda only shifts back to Kaido when he's either drunk or for fighting purposes. Oda would rather spent the time showing us side characters we don't care about and create plot inconsistencies to look as an unpredictable writer.

I'm sorry, if you think Oda tried to build Kaido as a complex antagonist then he failed miserably, and that's not the first time Oda ruined a good character.
the 75 chapter of wano should tell you that wano is not going to end like normal OP arcs....it has so many characters even more than dressrosa. Imo, it is going to run around for another 50-60 chapters with Oda tying up Wano with outside events. So now according to Oda , it was time to explore beast pirates and Kaido, hence we are seeing more of them than Orochi and his subordinates.
 
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Nothing wrong with some fun :p.

By the way, big mom even back then was for sure stronger than oden. By a good marging. She was ruling her territory uncontested while roger and wb were alive. And roger with prime rayleigh mind you preferred to avoid fighting her and just take the poneglyphs. Same roger ran straight towards oden and punked him.

There are so many hints that while oden was strong he wasnt admiral/yonko strong. But people choose to ignore them for some ungodly reason.
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Thats why i think kaido is not falling this arc, a lot of plot buildup with rocks reveal, this bm/kaido alliance, their goal and the new onigashima project and their connection with bb through rocks. A lot of stuff to be revealed and fleshed out.
Usually when a villain is supposed to fall, they have as much screen time if not more than luffy during their arc. They interract a lot with the Shs to create tension and they get super fleshed out. None of those happened to kaido, well we got some stuff in the latest chapters but its not nearly enough, just hints of his personality.
If this keeps up, i think orochi will get deposed and wano liberated with kaido/bm leaving it either defeated or just a retreat of sorts to go accomplish the goal said they would try to do. Conquer the world.
What do you think?
This has been my theory for months now. Theres a ton of Rocks buildup and I'm afraid (well, more excited), that BM/Kaido will leave Wano last minute to further the Rocks plot with the other 2 Yonko. Something just hasn't been sitting right with me and them falling here. I expect them both to participate in the battles this arc definitely, but its just a funny feeling I have.

It's very unlike Oda to not characterize his villains. Hell, BM got more screentime/backstory and she didn't fall in her own arc. Just keep watch if the Ace exists. If it does, I half expect Luffy to fight him/instead of Kaido. There still is that mysterious figure from Punk Hazard. That person does not match any silhouettes seen thus far, but it's possible it was just nothing.
 
Thats why i think kaido is not falling this arc, a lot of plot buildup with rocks reveal, this bm/kaido alliance, their goal and the new onigashima project and their connection with bb through rocks. A lot of stuff to be revealed and fleshed out.
Usually when a villain is supposed to fall, they have as much screen time if not more than luffy during their arc. They interract a lot with the Shs to create tension and they get super fleshed out. None of those happened to kaido, well we got some stuff in the latest chapters but its not nearly enough, just hints of his personality.
If this keeps up, i think orochi will get deposed and wano liberated with kaido/bm leaving it either defeated or just a retreat of sorts to go accomplish the goal said they would try to do. Conquer the world.
What do you think?
All depends on how Oda fleshes it. I'm just annoyed with Oda spending a year and a half on Kaido's own arc barely giving a glimpse of him after act 1 deciding to save his backstory whenever he falls and we don't know when. It could have been MUCH better to explain early on act 2 or 3 even if Kaido doesn't fall in Wano. I left the nonsense "Oden > FB Kaido and Toki/Oden's prophecy means Kaido's end IN Wano" notion few days ago so aside from strength, the interactions and backstory itself (although too late) are going to decide whether he becomes relevant post Wano.
 
All depends on how Oda fleshes it. I'm just annoyed with Oda spending a year and a half on Kaido's own arc barely giving a glimpse of him after act 1 deciding to save his backstory whenever he falls and we don't know when. It could have been MUCH better to explain early on act 2 or 3 even if Kaido doesn't fall in Wano. I left the nonsense "Oden > FB Kaido and Toki/Oden's prophecy means Kaido's end IN Wano" notion few days ago so aside from strength, the interactions and backstory itself (although too late) are going to decide whether he becomes relevant post Wano.
Agreed, well my hopes arent high for any decent story telling this arc. But idk. I wanna think that i didnt waste my time reading one piece for almost 20 years now.
 
I really don't care about all those opinions lol
I still enjoy Kaido, regardless if he felt fear or he cowered at a specific event and took advantage at a scene/ or not and it was by coincidence and he's mad at it

Reason for me enjoying both scenario is that both gives more details about his characters and how he acts in certain situation

Thus he's gonna be more dimintional character than just a fighting figure

And either way, being weaker than someone doesn't kill the character for me or dehypes him...

Also, the 1 vs 1 (bet on kaido) is only betting... betting is like a gamble game, it can succeed or fail

It's just Kaido has the higher chance MOST of times to come out on top

But it doesn't mean that someone cannot beat him, thus 7 losses... and it also doesn't mean that it is impossible for a weaker person to win also, cause it's still a bet, with right condition, a weaker opponent can win as well
 
I could not agree with you more. To me, Kaido is the most disappointing character in manga history.

When I first read Chapter 795, Kaido looked like a literal demigod among men, unkillable and blood lusted in a truly terrifying way. Then we get to Zou, and his right hand man is detonating WMDs with no interest in negotiations, and challenging multiple Admirals without an ounce of fear. I could not believe how terrifying Kaido and his crew were for a series like OP.

At first.

The Kaido we got in Wano, is as lame and disappointing as pre-Wano Kaido was awesome. First he appears as a drunken fool who would sooner have the monster non-negotiator Jack play the role of retconned cute little recruiter/diplomat than he would just kill Shutenmaru for messing with his plans.

Then Kaido is screaming at his own men in fear to “please stop Big Mom!!” Instead of just flying over to her himself and fucking shit up personally.

Then he is shitting his pants at the idea of fighting Oden alone as Oda wanks the uninteresting Oden to high heaven at the expense of whatever redeemability Kaido could’ve hoped to desperately cling onto.

Kaido was introduced as a fearless insane monster intent on destroying the world. But Oda either intentionally mislead us or just straight up retconned Kaido, because the Kaido we got is a scared panicking whiner with no intimidation factor and no reason to take him seriously as an antagonist.

Most disappointing manga character I’ve ever read.
This summed my feelings almost perfectly i guess. Imagine the unparalleled character design and WSC title. It becomes hostage and cold sweat panic now.
 
I think I need to do some explanation here in addition to my original post/thread.

People telling me about rationality, that Kaido was rational etc. Guys, I'm all for rationality, I like rational characters, for that specific reason I like Law more than I like strowhats, Kid or anyone from current generation. Big Mom has shown rationality by wanting to gain more military power to take down other Yonkos

But at the same time she's fearless if it's necessary, she came to Wano with only half of her crew, with only Smoothie from her commanders and with only one ship with an absolute confidence that she can take down Kaido if things go bad, Kaido threatened her saying that he will kill her if she came but Big Mom couldn't care less, even king was surprised to see how bold Big Mom is saying "what were you thinking coming here with only one ship".

I think that Admirals are overall weaker than Yonkos and that you need at least two Admirals to take down one Yonko but I don't think Whitbeard would be able to defeat all 5 Admirals combined with Shichibukais all by himself even if he was in his prime. Whitebeard was one of the most rational characters in one piece, he was avoiding fighting even against weak Marians just because it was unnecessary, but when it was needed he was fearless. Dispite the fact that he was half dead, that he lost his three most powerful crew members Ace, Tuch, Blackbeard and the fact that the enemy had advantage in numbers by 95 to 1 he still did what was needed to done.

And again, just for comparison...

Whitebeard didn't even flinch while losing half of his head while Kaido was shiting his pants just realizing that he would have been dead if it wasn't for old hag.
The only time I saw Whitbeard being worried is when he had a heart attack in the worst posebol moment...

...and that was the only time I saw Whitbeard being worried first Time, and overall Whitbeard was absolutely fearless in his path to Valhalla.
I don't need to talk about how rational Shanks Is since we all saw that in east blue, but when it was necessary he came to Marinford with only one ship and with only his crew challenging all Admirals, Blackbeard and Shichibukais at the same time

When Shiki came to Roger he brought his huge fleet but when he wanted to prove Marians how weak they are compared to pairets he came alone to Marinford...

...dispite knowing that he has zero chance against both Garp and Sengoku.
And even Blackbeard who has multiple personalities and some times he can be a caword he wasn't afraid to challenge all Admirals with only his crew

What I'm trying to say is that I have nathing against people who use dirty tricks in order to win the war, in a war every means are justified. But the sheer fact that Kaido didn't give Oden the second chance in fair 1v1 when he already had been taken over the country just shows that he excepted the way he defeated him. I wouldn't be mad if Kaido wasn't shown to respect the strength, someone who tries to find strong people to challenge them in a fight in order to find out who is the strongest. We will never find out if Kaido was strong enough to defeat Oden in 1v1, Kaido also let Orochi increase the temperature of oil breaking his promise to Oden, he also broke his promise to Oden that he will not kill those who survived the boiling. There are so many instances where Kaido is afraid of Oden and if he was truly respecting strength and Oden he would give him a chance for a fair fight to find who is the strongest, and I'm not blaming Kaido for that cuz Kaido is just a character, I'm blaming Oda for breaking his character, for running his character, for using him as a hype tool.
 
Kaido was shiting his pants just realizing that he would have been dead if it wasn't for old hag.
This is your own interpretation....there is no way that represents he was shitting in his pants....

There are so many instances where Kaido is afraid of Oden and if he was truly respecting strength and Oden he would give him a chance for a fair fight to find who is the strongest
Sengoku respected WB and his strength but everything is fair in war.....also, in case you didn't notice Oden was locked in cell with his swords.....

why does Kaido has to give fair chance?....he is not judge for god sake, he is pirate
 
That was 20 years ago, even so Kaido killed the hag to redeem himself since he didn't plan the hostage trick, he even spared the scabbards and killed Oden quickly to ease his pain since he was basically already dead after the oil. We have no idea who would win the fight if the hostage situation didn't happen, both Kaido and Oden were heavily damaged. I think the fight with Oden inspired Kaido to train like a maniac and become unbeatable in 1v1, he is no coward and won't resort to cheap tricks to win a 1v1, he literally unlocked Big Mom's seastone chains so they can have a fair fight even though he knows Big Mom is pretty much his equal. So yes, i don't understand the Kaido hate, he is cool, powerful and even knows how to organize a kick ass party and we still don't know anything about his early days, i'm sure we will get a Kaido flashback that is similar to the Young Big Mom flashback.
 
This is your own interpretation....there is no way that represents he was shitting in his pants....
I didn't meant literally but figuratively.

Sengoku respected WB and his strength but everything is fair in war.....also, in case you didn't notice Oden was locked in cell with his swords.....

why does Kaido has to give fair chance?....he is not judge for god sake, he is pirate
I myself said that in the war every means are justified, did you even read what a said?
The sword part are Big plot holes, I said it before that it was out of Oden's personality to give up.
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That was 20 years ago, even so Kaido killed the hag to redeem himself since he didn't plan the hostage trick, he even spared the scabbards and killed Oden quickly to ease his pain since he was basically already dead after the oil. We have no idea who would win the fight if the hostage situation didn't happen, both Kaido and Oden were heavily damaged. I think the fight with Oden inspired Kaido to train like a maniac and become unbeatable in 1v1, he is no coward and won't resort to cheap tricks to win a 1v1, he literally unlocked Big Mom's seastone chains so they can have a fair fight even though he knows Big Mom is pretty much his equal. So yes, i don't understand the Kaido hate, he is cool, powerful and even knows how to organize a kick ass party and we still don't know anything about his early days, i'm sure we will get a Kaido flashback that is similar to the Young Big Mom flashback.
He didn't spare scabbards and broke his promise to Oden.
We have no idea who would win the fight if the hostage situation didn't happen
Well, that's the point.
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This thread is not about power level but I gatto say this.

Guys, do you even realize that if it wasn't for the old hag Oden would have mid diffed Kaido? It wasn't even high diff, not even fucking high diff.
:lusalty:
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even right now Kaido have gave us the best feats in the story ...

- his free shot one shot Ode
- tank 10 K jump ... no Haki , no DF
- tank 10s of Gear 4 punches .... no Haki , no DF
- one shot Luffy
- fought another Yonko for 2 days and came out clean
- sky cutting advance Haki
- advance CoA lighting Haki
- massive exp since he was a big fighter since the era of rocks



and Kaido is not even went all out .....

- he is still have to show us his full power of Haki
- he is still have to show us his full power of raw power
- he is still have to show us his full power of durability
- he is still have to show us his full power of Hybrid form
- he is still have to show us his full power of his awaking



attacking Kaido as of now for any reason is the stupidest thing one man can do
 
his free shot one shot Ode
I would agree with you on that one if Oden had the chance to protect himself with CoA but he was too distracted so it wasn't actually oneshot but rather cheapshot.

tank 10 K jump ... no Haki , no DF
We don't know how his DF is working so I don't think saying no DF is a correct answer nore a feat and same goes for gear 4th punches.
Just like Big Mom.
fought another Yonko for 2 days and came out clean
Just like Big Mom.
sky cutting advance Haki
- advance CoA
Just like every other Yonko

I'm not sure whether it's a factor or not but ok.

massive exp since he was a big fighter since the era of rocks
just like every other Yonko has a massive exp
and Kaido is not even went all out .....

- he is still have to show us his full power of Haki
- he is still have to show us his full power of raw power
- he is still have to show us his full power of durability
- he is still have to show us his full power of Hybrid form
- he is still have to show us his full power of his awaking
We don't know Kaido's abilities so I'm not going to use this as a factor
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Kaido one-shotted Luffy - in my eyes he can do no wrong after that lmfao.
Any Yonko can do that.

Fr tho, yes he was worried about Big Mom coming up but then he was also the one who removed her cuffs and took her on. So whatever the reason he didn't want to see her was, clearly it wasn't out of fear of her strength.
I didn't say anything about Kaido's reaction to Big Mom coming to Wano.
 
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even right now Kaido have gave us the best feats in the story ...

- his free shot one shot Ode
- tank 10 K jump ... no Haki , no DF
- tank 10s of Gear 4 punches .... no Haki , no DF
- one shot Luffy
- fought another Yonko for 2 days and came out clean
- sky cutting advance Haki
- advance CoA lighting Haki
- massive exp since he was a big fighter since the era of rocks



and Kaido is not even went all out .....

- he is still have to show us his full power of Haki
- he is still have to show us his full power of raw power
- he is still have to show us his full power of durability
- he is still have to show us his full power of Hybrid form
- he is still have to show us his full power of his awaking



attacking Kaido as of now for any reason is the stupidest thing one man can do
thanks for spittin fax my guy
 
thanks for spittin fax my guy
I would agree with you on that one if Oden had the chance to protect himself with CoA but he was too distracted so it wasn't actually oneshot but rather cheapshot.


We don't know how his DF is working so I don't think saying no DF is a correct answer nore a feat and same goes for gear 4th punches.

Just like Big Mom.

Just like Big Mom.

Just like every other Yonko


I'm not sure whether it's a factor or not but ok.


just like every other Yonko has a massive exp

We don't know Kaido's abilities so I'm not going to use this as a factor
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Any Yonko can do that.


I didn't say anything about Kaido's reaction to Big Mom coming to Wano.
What about this?
 
I would agree with you on that one if Oden had the chance to protect himself with CoA but he was too distracted so it wasn't actually oneshot but rather cheapshot.


We don't know how his DF is working so I don't think saying no DF is a correct answer nore a feat and same goes for gear 4th punches.

Just like Big Mom.

Just like Big Mom.

Just like every other Yonko


I'm not sure whether it's a factor or not but ok.


just like every other Yonko has a massive exp

We don't know Kaido's abilities so I'm not going to use this as a factor
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Any Yonko can do that.


I didn't say anything about Kaido's reaction to Big Mom coming to Wano.
don't you see?

you are TRYING to ignore Kaido's feats

- Akainu gave a "cheapshot" to Whitebeard as well ... and he KNEW was he was doing .... yet Whitebeard was fine , Oden was out
- and saying just like other Yonko is not really an argument ... Yonko is Yonko and Yonko is strongets .... but I'm not going there

- Kaido one shot a YC1 ... no one yet did that
- Kaido tank feats that even Big Mom didn't

in both terms of AP and DP ... Kaido is No.1 so far ....

and he is not even all out


why even try to dehype the man when he is already killing it with feats and is not all out?

what unreal level of feats you expected that now you are disappointed?
 
just because big mom did it as well, dont make it any less impressive. and you just can deny that we have never seen recent kaido go all out yet. and as long as it isnt proven otherwise ill say that kaidos fall is devil fruit-less. and even with a devil fruit that is still one of the most impressive defensive feats in the entire series
 
just because big mom did it as well, dont make it any less impressive. and you just can deny that we have never seen recent kaido go all out yet. and as long as it isnt proven otherwise ill say that kaidos fall is devil fruit-less. and even with a devil fruit that is still one of the most impressive defensive feats in the entire series
Oden ... the same man who was able to tank magma for 1 hours ... without Haki ... couldn't handle 1 attack of Kaido

and this is Kaido 20 years ago on BASE form with no DF

the feat that people blame him for is one of best feats so far ... but they don't want to see it
 
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