Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler

[Lee Ba Shou]

It’s all portrayal tax. I doubt there isn’t at least some amount of credibility in his hype and he’s a direct peer of Renpa. Feels a bit off that he’d be below all his subordinates too.

He was a Great General, he’d beat the likes of Rokuomi or Kouson Ryu pretty easily, and like I said he’d probably beat Mougou/Choutou tier guys too. Nobody stronger than that imo.

You have to realize the people who spread the rumors about Gakujou surpassing Renpa are probably people who would get bodied by Mougou. To them, once you become a strong Great General, your ability just becomes unfathomable and they have no idea what you’re capable of. We as the reader know better, Gakushou gets bodied by any 3GH associated commander.

Why would Gaku Ki contribute to 3GH agenda?

By this logic, Mou Bu should be be part of the Qi agenda, or whichever state he was actually born in.

The Mou family as well as the Ou family absolutely hype the Qi agenda lol. These guys (the Ou family mainly) are likely direct descendants of the old royalty/old GG of Qi when it was a super state.

That’s like saying KouYoku being the son of Kou En wouldn’t hype Kou En when his 18 year old son is already stalling Tou in a fight. Like, how does that not hype Kou En lol.

Ou Hon broke out of his Raigoku and he had nowhere near the resources of a general, never mind a fully fledged GG.

Gyou’Un has killed Great Generals before lol. Probably Gakushou tier GGs too. Doubt he took out any Fire Dragon tier GGs or above.

 

[MarineHQ]

Gyou’Un has killed Great Generals before lol. Probably Gakushou tier GGs too. Doubt he took out any Fire Dragon tier GGs or above.

Oh damn I forgot that one.
Ouhon


Shin wouldn't survive that btw

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Oh damn I forgot that one.

The Church of Gyou’Un never forgets. Lol

Ouhon

Yep. Hence when I see people downplaying Ouhon I’m just like, wtf yall talking about lmfao

 

[MarineHQ]

The Church of Gyou’Un never forgets. Lol



Yep. Hence when I see people downplaying Ouhon I’m just like, wtf yall talking about lmfao

It's one of the greatest feats ever.

 

[Rumble]

The Mou family as well as the Ou family absolutely hype the Qi agenda lol. These guys (the Ou family mainly) are likely direct descendants of the old royalty/old GG of Qi when it was a super state.

No, it doesn't. Talent can and does pop up everywhere, the only thing geography influences is opportunity.

People in Qin and Chu aren't more inherently capable than people from the other states. They just benefit from a superior environment to cultivate and hone that talent because their respective states are on top. That's all.

The Mou family did not come into prominence until Mou Gou settled in Qin. Mou Bu especially has next to nothing to do with Qi. He didn't grow up there, he didn't cultivate his talents there, he has no discernible ties to the land or institutions.

The Ou thing is just headcanon/theory, but the same logic applies. Place of birth doesn't determine talent or ability.

That’s like saying KouYoku being the son of Kou En wouldn’t hype Kou En when his 18 year old son is already stalling Tou in a fight. Like, how does that not hype Kou En lol.

That's genetics, i.e. biology. We're discussing geography and the benefits that confers. More accurately, we're discussing the benefits of geography + timing. Qi was on top at one point, and then it wasn't. Those born there during its heyday had better opportunities for their talent than those who were born after it lost its superstate status.

Gyou’Un has killed Great Generals before lol. Probably Gakushou tier GGs too. Doubt he took out any Fire Dragon tier GGs or above.

Setting your assumptions on the skill level of GGs that fell to it aside, the Raigoku was designed to deal with 6GG tiers.

Ou Hon, a 5K commander with nowhere near the resources of a general - never mind a GG - broke out of it.

It's unlikely the Raigoku would've worked against actual 6GGs, who are much better protected.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

He was a Great General, he’d beat the likes of Rokuomi or Kouson Ryu pretty easily, and like I said he’d probably beat Mougou/Choutou tier guys too. Nobody stronger than that imo.

From the word of Renpa his warfare gave even him the chills. Do you believe anybody below his own subordinates is capable of such praise?

For similar reasons I give Kochou the benefit of the doubt over the 3GH subordinates. Nothing directly proves he is but the role he played would make me perceive him in that way.

 

[Rumble]

Oh damn I forgot that one.
Ouhon


Shin wouldn't survive that btw

You also think Ou Hon is stronger than Kyou Kai, so this dumbassery tracks.

 

[MarineHQ]

You also think Ou Hon is stronger than Kyou Kai, so this dumbassery tracks.

Ouhon is definitely beating Kyoukai 1v1, yes.

 

[Rumble]

Ouhon is definitely beating Kyoukai 1v1, yes.

 

[MarineHQ]

I have faith in Kyoukai. One day she will be able to slay someone that actually has made a name for himself.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

The Ou thing is just headcanon/theory, but the same logic applies. Place of birth doesn't determine talent or ability.

You say this, then you said this:

That's genetics, i.e. biology.

So if the Ou family is actually Qi royalty, wouldn’t their genetics hype the Qi agenda? Lol

I mean I think it’s clear that the Ou family stood at the top of Qi in some form. I can’t see how they don’t hype Qi. The Mou family, sure because Mougou was a nobody in Qi, but the Ou family definitely hypes Qi.

I actually have a really interesting theory about Ouki and Qi but it ain’t ready yet lmfao.

Setting your assumptions on the skill level of GGs that fell to it aside, the Raigoku was designed to deal with 6GG tiers.

Ou Hon, a 5K commander with nowhere near the resources of a general - never mind a GG - broke out of it.

It's unlikely the Raigoku would've worked against actual 6GGs, who are much better protected.

Regardless the point stands that actual Great Generals have been killed by it, as much as that fact makes the likes of @Bullet bitch and moan lol. Ouhon at 4,000 man commander already has bursts of GG level talent just like Shin and Mouten.

From the word of Renpa his warfare gave even him the chills. Do you believe anybody below his own subordinates is capable of such praise?

Yes, IE Gakujou. Lol

Eh, idk. Maybe I’m too hard on him. I do think Kochou was above Heavenly King level at his peak so who knows. On that topic:

For similar reasons I give Kochou the benefit of the doubt over the 3GH subordinates. Nothing directly proves he is but the role he played would make me perceive him in that way.

This is how I see Kochou.

Genpou was stated to be a mind so great that he could serve as the head of the Zhao military. But that’s all he was, just a GG+ level mind.

Kochou served as the head of state for Zhao, in fact he and Genpou have the exact same IQ stat at 96. But Kochou was also quite a monstrous warrior. He was not only shown rampaging with a Glaive against Yan when Kouson Ryu talked about him, but he was also one-shotting Shuma clansmen while blood gushed like a water fountain from his neck lmfao.

So Kochou was literally a head of Zhao level mind+ he was a great warrior on top of that. I put him above Heavenly King tier. Maybe Gakujou could be that high but I just don’t know.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

How would y'all rank:

Gakujou
Kyou'En
Kochou
Keisha
Gyou'un

 

[FutureWarrior123]

Gakujou
Kyou'En
Kochou
Keisha
Gyou'un

1. Keisha
2. Gakujou/Kochou
3. Kochou/Gakujou
4. Gyou’Un
5. Kyou En

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

How would y'all rank:

Gakujou
Kyou'En
Kochou
Keisha
Gyou'un

Keisha
Kochou
Gakujou
Gyou’Un
Kyou En

I guess I’ll put that respect on Gakujou but I really don’t think he’s earned it…

 

[Rumble]

I have faith in Kyoukai. One day she will be able to slay someone that actually has made a name for himself.

Ou Ki's name didn't protect him from the nameless Ri Boku, did it?

Only a stan would think there's any conversation to be had about Ou Hon's chances against Kyou Kai. He has none. He has never stood a chance at any point in the series.

So if the Ou family is actually Qi royalty, wouldn’t their genetics hype the Qi agenda? Lol

No, it would hype up the Ou Family agenda.

States do not determine talent or ability, only opportunity. One state may be better at producing that talent, but that is a reflection of circumstances, which are subject to change over time. At its height, Qi likely was a great place for talented individuals to flourish and achieve great things. Then that changed, and now it's Qin and Chu producing great young talents. In time, that will also change.

I mean I think it’s clear that the Ou family stood at the top of Qi in some form. I can’t see how they don’t hype Qi. The Mou family, sure because Mougou was a nobody in Qi, but the Ou family definitely hypes Qi.

If it was clear, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It would be in the material. As it stands, Ou Family ties to Qi are purely speculative, and that speculation is based on very little, if anything at all. It's a fun theory, but that's all it presently is.

Regardless the point stands that actual Great Generals have been killed by it, as much as that fact makes the likes of @Bullet bitch and moan lol. Ouhon at 4,000 man commander already has bursts of GG level talent just like Shin and Mouten.

I'll have to scroll back to see what @Bullet had to say about it, but as far my post goes, I was responding to this post:

Gyou’Un's instinctual warfare, his Raigoku technique and Chouugaryuu's tactical warfare were portrayed to be problematic even for a top Great General. In certain situations at least.

I've not disputed that "standard" GGs fell to Raigoku, because we have a Ten Spears member stating it as a fact.

How would y'all rank:

Gakujou
Kyou'En
Kochou
Keisha
Gyou'un

Overall, I have it:

Kyou En ≥ Gyou'un > Ko Chou > Kei Sha > Gaku Jou

Kyou En has the best hype statements out of the three, by far. Crossed swords multiple times with Ren Pa and at least two of 4 6GGs he faced. No one has anything to compete with that.

Ko Chou has the best feat in holding back 3 6GGs for a year.

Gyou'un had the most generous portrayal.

Kei Sha likely had the highest potential.

 

[MarineHQ]

Ou Ki's name didn't protect him from the nameless Ri Boku, did it?

Only a stand would think there's any conversation to be had about Ou Hon's chances against Kyou Kai. He has none. He has never stood a chance at any point in the series.

He has always been superior to her, not only currently, but years and years ago. The headcanon accomplishments for Kyoukai can only push her so far. When Kyoukai gets a kill that equals slaying Earl Shi which Ouhon did years ago btw then I'll gladly entertain this matchup.

 

[Rumble]

He has always been superior to her, not only currently, but years and years ago. The headcanon accomplishments for Kyoukai can only push her so far. When Kyoukai gets a kill that equals slaying Earl Shi which Ouhon did years ago btw then I'll gladly entertain this matchup.

lmao

 

[Extravlad]

How would y'all rank:

Gakujou
Kyou'En
Kochou
Keisha
Gyou'un

Ko Chou (great general with best stats) > Keisha (best regular general in the manga with considerable feats vs GGs such as Kanki and Duke Hyou) > Gyou'un (monstrous vassal) > Kyou'En (nice statements but suffer from not being Renpa's RHM nor his most dangerous HK) > Gakujou (not even intel)

 

[MarineHQ]

lmao

The reply I expected.

Meanwhile let us enjoy the greatness of Top 1 Kyoukai.

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

As you guys are talking about Generals from Zhao that was introduced to us, yet didn't showed up again, Zhao has a strategist general with name of something defense and him was hyped with his defense strategies, your think him will come back?