Controversial General Political Discussion

[Herrera95]

You didn't take into account the fact that people are doing chores outside of work, which is counted into the numbers of hours of pre agriculture people.

Just went back to the article I sent to you and you will see that your article took back a lot of duties that other professionals of the area would claim to be considered work.

And again. You are comparing the low life expectancy of that life with our high life expectancy and retirement! Which they didn't had.

 

[Okamakama]

I've already explained this. When I say "you are far right". Its not meant as a disrespected but as a way for you to understand that you are saying BS in order for you guys to CORRECT that. Why would I care to insult you ? It leads nowhere and its a waste of time. What I want if for people to be less toxic on this forum so we can have a place we can be proud of in the community. Right now, I'm not proud of this place, its toxic, its field with far right, incel, confusionnist and disrespectfull people and one day - as I already said before - this forum might be seen as ONE OF the sources of toxicity in the One Piece fanbase.

I don't want that, so I'm proactive in trying to stop toxicity here.



No I said that because you are being psychophobic against ME. You - once again - didn't understand. FFS. Its a constant with you guys. Learn to read.



I've checked and you seem to be right. Its very hard to know that number. Although it doesn't negate what I said about it being extremelly rare.




Granted, I wasn't talking about sex change, only hormonal therapy which is reversible if i'm to be trusting trans people who talked about that subject. Also, "lost time" is not accounted for in the term "reversible". There are risk implied by the treatment, every Trans should know that. (and if not, they are right to be angry against specialists)



I've never negated the fact that I have a strong and enormous ego. This is one of my flaw. What you don't understand, is that I'm aware of it and instead of using it to do bad things, I use it to fight other's toxicity and to coutner the far right BS I see here.

In other words, I use my ego as a shield. Without it, I would no be able to challenge the opinion of the majority here.

So yes, I have a big ego. Deal with it.





No, I only listen to those who have pertinent arguments. It just happens that those who have pertinent arguments are more radical than me. Radicality is not necessarily a problem in society if its used to do good.



From your perspective, it might appear like that yes. I completely understand why you think that. But trust me that I'm very VERY careful when I listen to an opinion that is different from mine and that I find pertinent.

You should know that I didn't deradicalized myself once or twice but FIVE times !

- From complotism and antisemitic beliefs
- From hardcore Right Wing beliefs
- From antifeminist and antiSJW beliefs
- From liberal and meritocratic beliefs
- From new atheist type of critical thinking and islamophobic beliefs

And I'm about to deradicalize myself from a form of toxic and ableist leftist belief system as well. (I'm sensing the same type of cognitive dissonance that helped me to move off from all those other toxic beliefs systems, so its imminent).

So I'm not exagerating when I say that I'm always VERY careful and very aware of potential toxic beliefs systems. I know that I'm heading toward radicality, but that's not because its a bad belief system, its just that its a belief system that is more aware of the inequalities and problems of society and therefore understands more than the others that radical actions are needed to make a change.

And you are right, it doesn't make me a good person. I'm not. I'm just aiming to do good things.



Not necessaraly no.



The issue here is that you think that I don't listen. I do. Everytime. In fact much more than the majority here since I almost never missinterpret what you guys are saying in contrary to you. I'm just not agreeing with you.

(I added almost because sometimes - like tonight - I'm tired and I miss a word that is important. But I always rectify that.


- Mar 26 2024 - Political thread : To you about detransition "I've checked and you seem to be right"
- Feb 20, 2024 - Nakama thread : "The conclusion of my theory was wrong"
- Feb 19, 2024 - Nakama thread : About the predictive nature of my theory "I was wrong about that"
- Feb 19, 2024 - Nakama thread : About my theory : "I was mostly wrong on my approach so I'm using a completely different method "
- Jan 29, 2024 - Political thread : About my political journey : "I've therefore realized that I was wrong a lot, and I mean MASSIVELY wrong, over the years "
- Dec 30 2023 - Political thread : To Zenos about abortion: "Interesting. After reconsideration and some researches, it appears effectively that I'm wrong and you were right"
Sadly I cannot search because there are only ten pages of research and the words "you are right" are not taken into account. But I can tell you that I've done it more than anyone on this thread.

Being wrong is not a weakness for me. I love being wrong. And I have no problem with my ego admitting that I'm completely wrong sometimes or that I've been completely stupid. It just doesn't happen often here.

You can add that one.



And on this one, I'm not. Sorry..





When you are anticapitalist.. yeah.. pretty much lol



You didn't take into account the fact that people are doing chores outside of work, which is counted into the numbers of hours of pre agriculture people.


Interesting. A potential biological source for gender disphoria.

I added that I may not have been fair about not ever admitting you are wrong. (Post my original comment - I apologise).

I was not being psychophobic. I'm not a doctor, obviously, but calling out traits and behaviours that are making you (at least somewhat) socially ostracised comes from a place of care (even if I am exasperated by you).

You're aware you might need to deradicalize yourself regarding your extreme leftism, right?

Hormone therapy isn't always reversible. For MtFs, without surgery, they're not getting rid of the breast tissue, which means they'll be scarred for life. Furthermore, cross-sex hormones can render you infertile/sterile for life. This is not reversible, either. My concern on this topic isn't even about me. A little known fact is that I counsel other detransitioners, namely under 18s who had surgeries forced upon them by their doctors.

So no, I believe there is serious harm that can be done (especially if you're introducing hormone blockers into the equation - a girl I'm counselling became partially blind due to the medication that blocks hormones). HECK the medication for this process... is what is used to chemical castrate sex offenders.

This is a nuanced issue, Logiko. I am not a right-wing extremist who wants to deny people happiness. But I cannot, and will not, allow myself to callously ignore those who are injured, mistreated or forgotten in this process in favour of the happy outcomes.

 

[Zenos7]

and if not, they are right to be angry against specialists

Its a medical professionals job to inform patients of risks and side effects for sure.

 

[Logiko]

Just went back to the article I sent to you and you will see that your article took back a lot of duties that other professionals of the area would claim to be considered work.

And again. You are comparing the low life expectancy of that life with our high life expectancy and retirement! Which they didn't had.

No one is saying that the lives of mesolithic hunter gatherers are comparable to our lives. We wouldn't last long or be happy in those lives. But we need to understand that its not all dark either and that the idea of technology bringing progress social or economical in all field is not necessarilly true. Especially when it comes to gender norms and work hours.

I added that I may not have been fair about not ever admitting you are wrong. (Post my original comment - I apologise).

Yes sorry, I posted before reading that post. That's fair.

I was not being psychophobic. I'm not a doctor, obviously, but calling out traits and behaviours that are making you (at least somewhat) socially ostracised comes from a place of care

Well please don't. Because that's what psychophobia is. I deal with enough psychophobia in real life to deal with it on internet too. Let's not psychologize my condition and compare it to the way I'm fighting or replying to people here please. Those two things have nothing in common.

You're aware you might need to deradicalize yourself regarding your extreme leftism, right?

Actually that's the opposite. I need to radicalize myself MORE into leftism.

I'm talking about deralization in the context of the field of ideas.

You and others here needs to understand that there are not just two sides in which you can be radical. In reality, you can be radical in a LARGE number of ideas and values not just on the right or on the left. For example, libertarianism is a radical vision of capitalism. Ultraliberalism (or extrem centrism) is a radical vision of the belief in meritocracy. Anarchism is a radical vision of the left libertarism. Communism is a radical vision of socialism. Fascism is a radical vision of white supremacy which is a radical vision of nationalism and identitarism. Islamism is a radical vision of the belief in Islam, thinking that we must use sabotage in eco militantism is a radical vision of ecologism etc.

Radicalism is just what we name the radicalization of a value or a idea. But we must also understand that radicalisms are not necessaraly all bad.

For example: During Europe occupation by Nazi and fascists, the collaboration was sadly the hegemonic vision. (mostly for survival reasons) but some resisted by helping Jews or other targeted persons. Well.. the action of armed resistance (when you fight with weapon or when you make a target blow up for example) is a radical version of this pacific resistance. But does it being radical means its bad ?

Not at all ! In reality, without this type of resistance, we would have had a much more hard time and there is no garrantee that we would have been victorious.

Radicality is therefore sometime synonymous of necessary and powerfull actions.

So I'm not afraid of becoming radical, I think its in my nature to direct myself toward that type of action. But I need to be careful not to fall into BAD radicalism. And I had training for that, so I'm good, at least for now.

Hormone therapy isn't always reversible. For MtFs, without surgery, they're not getting rid of the breast tissue, which means they'll be scarred for life.

Only if they don't make surgery, that can be done quite right. But indeed, we must be indeed careful.

cross-sex hormones can render you infertile/sterile for life.

Yes, that's one of the risk that Trans must be aware of.

A little known fact is that I counsel other detransitioners, namely under 18s who had surgeries forced upon them by their doctors.

And we must know more about detransitionners to be able to help trans people in the best way possible.

I believe there is serious harm that can be done

Yes, its not a simple process. There are risks that all trans must be aware of.

This is a nuanced issue, Logiko. I am not a right-wing extremist who wants to deny people happiness. But I cannot, and will not, allow myself to callously ignore those who are injured, mistreated or forgotten in this process in favour of the happy outcomes.

As long as you don't say that we shouldn't allow gender affirming care on children or that transition therapy are not necessarily a bad thing and you understand that the case of detransition are a minority (that still need to be accounted for) I'm okay with it.

In all honestly, I put you on the far right side because of this specific reason but I can't remember or find back the moments when you said it. So I might have been wrong and I might have been a little bit harsh and hasty on you in a context when I faced a lot of transphobic message.

So I will go back on my words for now and hold my judgment on you once again as I did with Zemmi.

 

[Herrera95]

No one is saying that the lives of mesolithic hunter gatherers are comparable to our lives. We wouldn't last long or be happy in those lives. But we need to understand that its not all dark either and that the idea of technology bringing progress social or economical in all field is not necessarilly true. Especially when it comes to gender norms and work hours.

Technology brings way mote benefits than harm if any.

 

[Logiko]

Technology brings way mote benefits than harm if any.

Possible yeah. But that's because behind the technological push, there is also a good ethical and social push as well. Technology alone is just a tool. It can bring the apocalypse as well as paradise.

 

[Okamakama]

Only if they don't make surgery, that can be done quite right. But indeed, we must be indeed careful.

Yes, that's one of the risk that Trans must be aware of.

And we must know more about detransitionners to be able to help trans people in the best way possible.

Yes, its not a simple process. There are risks that all trans must be aware of.

As long as you don't say that we shouldn't allow gender affirming care on children or that transition therapy are not necessarily a bad thing and you understand that the case of detransition are a minority (that still need to be accounted for) I'm okay with it.

In all honestly, I put you on the far right side because of this specific reason but I can't remember or find back the moments when you said it. So I might have been wrong and I might have been a little bit harsh and hasty on you in a context when I faced a lot of transphobic message.

So I will go back on my words for now and hold my judgment on you once again as I did with Zemmi.

That is actually incorrect. I have full breasts from Hrt which is not reversible without surgery - and surgery comes with it's own risks, Logiko.

It is one of the risks, but I think people (doctors) gloss over this during consultations. They certainly did with me.

I dislike this phrasing. We don't need to know more about detransitioners to help trans people. We need to know more about them to help them AND understand how it happened and what can be done better.

I do not agree with children transition because I have counseled MANY under 17s who detransitioned... and it's heartbreaking, Logiko. Some were pushed into it by doctors and didn't have the ability to consent. But I would not ban transition, but I advise caution and better practices. We're a minority, but I think minorities and majorities should be cared about, as you stated. But I DO want people to acknowledge we're higher than 1%.

 

[Logiko]

I have full breasts from Hrt which is not reversible without surgery

Yeah, that's what I said. With surgery its possible. Surgery always has risks but we can make wonders nowadays.

people (doctors) gloss over this during consultations. They certainly did with me

Which is problematic and a legitimate reason to be angry

I dislike this phrasing. We don't need to know more about detransitioners to help trans people. We need to know more about them to help them AND understand how it happened and what can be done better.

Fair

I do not agree with children transition because I have counseled MANY under 17s who detransitioned... and it's heartbreaking, Logiko

And how many did transition and were helped because of that ? Again, you are falling into the survivor bias. You are only seeing those who come from you for help so of course you will think there is a huge problem. We need to understand more this phenomenon, granted, but without it, people - even under 18 - 's lives are at risk.

Some were pushed into it by doctors and didn't have the ability to consent

In that case the problem is not the transition method, its the medical field. And on this debate I'm 100% with you, there are a LOT of problems in the psychiatric domain, I myself feeling those problems (for other reasons).

but I think minorities and majorities should be cared about, as you stated. But I DO want people to acknowledge we're higher than 1%.

As long as you don't come in the way of trans people I will also fight for you and those who you help as well.

 

[Kurozumi D. Trussop]

Anyway, how is your sex life?

I can’t tell you, it’s confidential.

 

[Okamakama]

Yeah, that's what I said. With surgery its possible. Surgery always has risks but we can make wonders nowadays.



Which is problematic and a legitimate reason to be angry



Fair



And how many did transition and were helped because of that ? Again, you are falling into the survivor bias. You are only seeing those who come from you for help so of course you will think there is a huge problem. We need to understand more this phenomenon, granted, but without it, people - even under 18 - 's lives are at risk.



In that case the problem is not the transition method, its the medical field. And on this debate I'm 100% with you, there are a LOT of problems in the psychiatric domain, I myself feeling those problems (for other reasons).



As long as you don't come in the way of trans people I will also fight for you and those who you help as well.

Then we are of accord. Not 100%. But enough for me to be satisfied with the outcome. Cheers.

As for your ongoing issues with psychiatric care, I feel you. I hope you aren't too up against it.

 

[Logiko]

Then we are of accord. Not 100%. But enough for me to be satisfied with the outcome. Cheers.

As for your ongoing issues with psychiatric care, I feel you. I hope you aren't too up against it.

If you want to picture it. Imagine that I have the same dream and will as Luffy, but instead of taking a boat and go at sea, I stay on windmill village drinking rhum at Party's, because I don't have the kind of biological molecule needed in my bread to push and motivate me to act, hunt or move to the sea.

Its like being in a prison with an open door.

(which is why I'm so pro active here)

 

[Herrera95]

Possible yeah. But that's because behind the technological push, there is also a good ethical and social push as well. Technology alone is just a tool. It can bring the apocalypse as well as paradise.

Like you said it is just a tool. Just like guns. It can't bring apocalypse or paradise only people do that. But it can equalize the game (the only way for a woman to stand a chance against a man).

And how you claim that we had social and ethical improves while at the same time claim that we used to live better in the past?

 

[Logiko]

Just like guns.

Guns are not tools, they are weapons. They are build to kill.

the only way for a woman to stand a chance against a man

No lol. We have social policies for that.

And how you claim that we had social and ethical improves while at the same time claim that we used to live better in the past?

Again, I'm not saying that we used to live better in the past, you are strawmanning. I say that some aera were not as dark as they were one hundred years ago. Which means that we must be careful not to say that technology alone can solve society's problems.

Technology can help, but without good ethics and good politics, technology will only bring chaos.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

I can’t tell you, it’s confidential.

What are YOU doing here??!? Run as long as you can, this thread brings only chaos and destruction

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

I can’t tell you, it’s confidential.

Confidential? Weird way to spell nonexistent

 

[Kurozumi D. Trussop]

Confidential? Weird way to spell nonexistent

You volunteering yourself?

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

You volunteering yourself?

That'd depend heavily on whether you're a woman or not

 

[Kurozumi D. Trussop]

That'd depend heavily on whether you're a woman or not

Nope

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Nope

Good night buddy.

 

[Herrera95]

No lol. We have social policies for that.

Social police won't protect women when they are alone with a man that wants to hurt them.

Post automatically merged: Mar 27, 2024

Technology can help, but without good ethics and good politics, technology will only bring chaos.

Technology has nothing to do with bringing chaos. With or without tech like you said without good ethics (fuck politics) chaos will be installed.