Controversial General Political Discussion
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Yes, indeed. It would be the first time in its democratic history that France - the country of the human rights, the revolution and the enlightnment - would go far right on his own accord and not just because of an armed occupation.
This is big, this is historic and this is the sign that bigotry is now considered a norm we can discuss with and not fight.
If we don't fight back, this will send a signal to every far rightists on the planet that its open season.
This is big, this is historic and this is the sign that bigotry is now considered a norm we can discuss with and not fight.
If we don't fight back, this will send a signal to every far rightists on the planet that its open season.
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For someone so open-minded, how can you fail to see that maybe there are reasons for people in your country to vote such a way instead of "bigotry is now a norm"?
I won't begin to pretend that I understand the political climate in France, but you're effectively demonising the voting populace and ascribing negative intent to their votes.
I won't begin to pretend that I understand the political climate in France, but you're effectively demonising the voting populace and ascribing negative intent to their votes.
Oh wow you're one of these people... the country of huM4n RighTssss. lmao
France didn't go completely far-right YET btw. Their european parliament did.
I'm not even sure it's the first time that there is such a far-right vote in history.
Let's get back to 19th century a bit, Second Republic of France. Napoleon III gets elected president and eventually makes a coup while everyone is asleep... people woke up and the Second Empire had sprung
. (yeah even with historical context, this was some nasty shit)
What do you think this is ? France is supposed to be an impenetrable castle to fascists ? A symbol for the world ?
The US fell in 2016 and will fall even deeper soon enough. Italy has gone to shit. Brexit happened for no reason. Germany is getting its swastika back despite all the protests agaisnt the AfD. Hungary has been away for a while now. Poland got back from far-rightist to a liberal recently. Sweden is becoming a shithole too. Turkey has been going to shit since Erdogan and his goons got there too.
There is no such thing, and whatever that's supposed to mean, as "a signal sent to the world for "open season" ".
France didn't go completely far-right YET btw. Their european parliament did.
I'm not even sure it's the first time that there is such a far-right vote in history.
Let's get back to 19th century a bit, Second Republic of France. Napoleon III gets elected president and eventually makes a coup while everyone is asleep... people woke up and the Second Empire had sprung
. (yeah even with historical context, this was some nasty shit)What do you think this is ? France is supposed to be an impenetrable castle to fascists ? A symbol for the world ?
The US fell in 2016 and will fall even deeper soon enough. Italy has gone to shit. Brexit happened for no reason. Germany is getting its swastika back despite all the protests agaisnt the AfD. Hungary has been away for a while now. Poland got back from far-rightist to a liberal recently. Sweden is becoming a shithole too. Turkey has been going to shit since Erdogan and his goons got there too.
There is no such thing, and whatever that's supposed to mean, as "a signal sent to the world for "open season" ".
Oh but there are reasons. Systemic ones, mediatic ones, political ones.
People don't start to become bigots out of nothing.
Tell, me, if Nazi were voted democratically in power, wouldn't you demonize this vote ?
(If you start to say no, ask yourself some question) and if yes, well, that's exactly what is happening here, unless this time, we are just at the beginning. The far right is that the stage 0 of its transformation.
- Stage 0 : The far right is about to get elected into power
- First stage : The far right acceed to power
- Second stage : The far right dismantle public media, everything go private in the hands of far right billionnaires (it has already begun). Begins a monopoly of the media and the destruction of the diversity of opinion in media
- Third stage : The far right dismantle all type of social structure and social aids with the approval of the bourgeoisie bloc and the racist popular vote
- Fourth stage : The far right keep the power because of its popularity. Its the start of the augmentation of the repression of anti-fascist movement. This will also be the start of the cult of personality of far right leaders.
- Fifth stage : The far right creates a local ennemy (the goal is to make people think that what they are living is not happening because of them, but because of other, for that they will go in that order in our current society :
Immigrants and Muslims AND Jews -> The "WOKE" (LGBTQI+ people, the left, social workers) -> Minorities -> The working Class -> You
- 6th Stage : The opposition will radicalize logically which will give the far right incentive to touch the structure of power and dismantle part of the institutions to strenghten their grip
- 7th Stage : At this point, you can expect terrorist attacks and huge riot to happen often. Which will give a reason for the far right to start transitionning into a much more radical repressive state. At this point, you should see people dying in the opposition.
- 8th Stage : The far right state will start to transform into a full fascist state. (you should see them start some wars here and there to keep up their legitimacy)
- 9th Stage : Repression + Racism + Censorship will be transformed in reality into something dark for Muslims and Jews.
Of course, this is a caricature. It might happen differentely but this is something plausible in France.
People did not vote for the far right because they trust a good candidate (the candidate had no program and absolutely no idea what he was talking about) People did it because of immigration and the fear of Islam. Those are pure racist reasons. So this vote was a racist one.
The responsibles are:
- Macron and his liberalism
- The bourgeoisie
- Our lack of pedagogy in the left
- The mainstream media our rendered the far right worthy of the public debate.
I'm not talking about the europpean vote, I'm talking about the dissolution of the assemblee that will give us a far right prime minister.
Well, its my rightist and reactionnary side that is talking.
I think we are a symbol. And if we fall, chances are that this will create a chain reaction.
Of course, I would love to be wrong.
And yet, I managed to deradicalize myself over the years from complotism, ultraliberalism, meritocracy, spiritism and some far right ideas and went all the way toward the socialist pro-scientific left.
If I'm a wall, you guys are dams.
People don't start to become bigots out of nothing.
Tell, me, if Nazi were voted democratically in power, wouldn't you demonize this vote ?
(If you start to say no, ask yourself some question) and if yes, well, that's exactly what is happening here, unless this time, we are just at the beginning. The far right is that the stage 0 of its transformation.
- Stage 0 : The far right is about to get elected into power
- First stage : The far right acceed to power
- Second stage : The far right dismantle public media, everything go private in the hands of far right billionnaires (it has already begun). Begins a monopoly of the media and the destruction of the diversity of opinion in media
- Third stage : The far right dismantle all type of social structure and social aids with the approval of the bourgeoisie bloc and the racist popular vote
- Fourth stage : The far right keep the power because of its popularity. Its the start of the augmentation of the repression of anti-fascist movement. This will also be the start of the cult of personality of far right leaders.
- Fifth stage : The far right creates a local ennemy (the goal is to make people think that what they are living is not happening because of them, but because of other, for that they will go in that order in our current society :
Immigrants and Muslims AND Jews -> The "WOKE" (LGBTQI+ people, the left, social workers) -> Minorities -> The working Class -> You
- 6th Stage : The opposition will radicalize logically which will give the far right incentive to touch the structure of power and dismantle part of the institutions to strenghten their grip
- 7th Stage : At this point, you can expect terrorist attacks and huge riot to happen often. Which will give a reason for the far right to start transitionning into a much more radical repressive state. At this point, you should see people dying in the opposition.
- 8th Stage : The far right state will start to transform into a full fascist state. (you should see them start some wars here and there to keep up their legitimacy)
- 9th Stage : Repression + Racism + Censorship will be transformed in reality into something dark for Muslims and Jews.
Of course, this is a caricature. It might happen differentely but this is something plausible in France.
People did not vote for the far right because they trust a good candidate (the candidate had no program and absolutely no idea what he was talking about) People did it because of immigration and the fear of Islam. Those are pure racist reasons. So this vote was a racist one.
The responsibles are:
- Macron and his liberalism
- The bourgeoisie
- Our lack of pedagogy in the left
- The mainstream media our rendered the far right worthy of the public debate.
I'm not talking about the europpean vote, I'm talking about the dissolution of the assemblee that will give us a far right prime minister.
Well, its my rightist and reactionnary side that is talking.
I think we are a symbol. And if we fall, chances are that this will create a chain reaction.
Of course, I would love to be wrong.
And yet, I managed to deradicalize myself over the years from complotism, ultraliberalism, meritocracy, spiritism and some far right ideas and went all the way toward the socialist pro-scientific left.
If I'm a wall, you guys are dams.
I think that could have been an opportunity to move on from the nakba
Palestinians could have got integrated into Egypt/Jordan with enough time.
But then Israel started the 6 day war with it’s preemptive strike and then occupied Gaza and the West Bank.
Now you have it to where Netanyahu is basically an open supporter of apartheid, refusing to give Palestinians their own states or integrate them into Israel.
But God forbid people protest Israel
Palestinians could have got integrated into Egypt/Jordan with enough time.
But then Israel started the 6 day war with it’s preemptive strike and then occupied Gaza and the West Bank.
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Now you have it to where Netanyahu is basically an open supporter of apartheid, refusing to give Palestinians their own states or integrate them into Israel.
But God forbid people protest Israel
Radicalization is not necessarily a bad thing you know.. but its funny that you think that "I" am radical when I'm in reality just a normie of leftism. You really have no idea what real leftist radicalization is.
Most leftist wouldn't even take the time to discuss with far rightist here, they would have already left by now.
Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you.
And yeah, I dare anyone of you to scrap all your belief system like I did to get closer to the reality of the world to see if you have an open mind and mental strenght to do that.
Go ahead, prove me that you are more open minded that I am.
Most leftist wouldn't even take the time to discuss with far rightist here, they would have already left by now.
Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you.
And yeah, I dare anyone of you to scrap all your belief system like I did to get closer to the reality of the world to see if you have an open mind and mental strenght to do that.
Go ahead, prove me that you are more open minded that I am.
You're really calling yourself the pinnacle of mental strength? 
Logiko. I've gone from arguing with you every day to realising a very simple fact. There is no real point in debating with someone who literally does not want to empathise with the other side. You don't quite understand why people act the way they do, and then you make it into a societal issue, or a bigotry issue, or another manifestation of malice.
What you do is not discussion. It's effectively proselytization.
I just don't care. Giving up all your values -- especially when you have no idea what you are surrendering them to -- is not a sign of strength. It's the highest form of weakness.
People here, like @Uncle Van have had to tell you what communism is when you've completely misrepresented it. And yet you act like you actually know what you're talking about.
You don't.
You just have a thought of how the world "should be," and run with it. I'll give you props for never giving up on banging that drum, but it's just exhausting to watch you scream into the void some half-baked "knowledge" that you clearly do not fully grasp.
There is one thing, however, that you are misconstruing above all else:
"Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you."
Nobody is trying to prove you wrong. Everybody knows you cannot be reasoned with. Gods knows many have tried. I once did as well. Now I just make the occasional comment and accept that I'll get tagged by you in an attempt to "convert me." Don't try to argue that is not the case, I, and many others will not believe you, as you have shown a repeating pattern of behaviour that indicates the moment you feel like someone thinks differently to you in a substantial manner, you must try to correct them, or shame them, or talk down to them, or misrepresent them, because you do not understand them, and that clearly scares you, or something to that degree.
Logiko. I've gone from arguing with you every day to realising a very simple fact. There is no real point in debating with someone who literally does not want to empathise with the other side. You don't quite understand why people act the way they do, and then you make it into a societal issue, or a bigotry issue, or another manifestation of malice.
What you do is not discussion. It's effectively proselytization.
I just don't care. Giving up all your values -- especially when you have no idea what you are surrendering them to -- is not a sign of strength. It's the highest form of weakness.
People here, like @Uncle Van have had to tell you what communism is when you've completely misrepresented it. And yet you act like you actually know what you're talking about.
You don't.
You just have a thought of how the world "should be," and run with it. I'll give you props for never giving up on banging that drum, but it's just exhausting to watch you scream into the void some half-baked "knowledge" that you clearly do not fully grasp.
There is one thing, however, that you are misconstruing above all else:
"Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you."
Nobody is trying to prove you wrong. Everybody knows you cannot be reasoned with. Gods knows many have tried. I once did as well. Now I just make the occasional comment and accept that I'll get tagged by you in an attempt to "convert me." Don't try to argue that is not the case, I, and many others will not believe you, as you have shown a repeating pattern of behaviour that indicates the moment you feel like someone thinks differently to you in a substantial manner, you must try to correct them, or shame them, or talk down to them, or misrepresent them, because you do not understand them, and that clearly scares you, or something to that degree.
You're really calling yourself the pinnacle of mental strength?
Logiko. I've gone from arguing with you every day to realising a very simple fact. There is no real point in debating with someone who literally does not want to empathise with the other side. You don't quite understand why people act the way they do, and then you make it into a societal issue, or a bigotry issue, or another manifestation of malice.
What you do is not discussion. It's effectively proselytization.
I just don't care. Giving up all your values -- especially when you have no idea what you are surrendering them to -- is not a sign of strength. It's the highest form of weakness.
People here, like @Uncle Van have had to tell you what communism is when you've completely misrepresented it. And yet you act like you actually know what you're talking about.
You don't.
You just have a thought of how the world "should be," and run with it. I'll give you props for never giving up on banging that drum, but it's just exhausting to watch you scream into the void some half-baked "knowledge" that you clearly do not fully grasp.
There is one thing, however, that you are misconstruing above all else:
"Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you."
Nobody is trying to prove you wrong. Everybody knows you cannot be reasoned with. Gods knows many have tried. I once did as well. Now I just make the occasional comment and accept that I'll get tagged by you in an attempt to "convert me." Don't try to argue that is not the case, I, and many others will not believe you, as you have shown a repeating pattern of behaviour that indicates the moment you feel like someone thinks differently to you in a substantial manner, you must try to correct them, or shame them, or talk down to them, or misrepresent them, because you do not understand them, and that clearly scares you, or something to that degree.
Logiko. I've gone from arguing with you every day to realising a very simple fact. There is no real point in debating with someone who literally does not want to empathise with the other side. You don't quite understand why people act the way they do, and then you make it into a societal issue, or a bigotry issue, or another manifestation of malice.
What you do is not discussion. It's effectively proselytization.
I just don't care. Giving up all your values -- especially when you have no idea what you are surrendering them to -- is not a sign of strength. It's the highest form of weakness.
People here, like @Uncle Van have had to tell you what communism is when you've completely misrepresented it. And yet you act like you actually know what you're talking about.
You don't.
You just have a thought of how the world "should be," and run with it. I'll give you props for never giving up on banging that drum, but it's just exhausting to watch you scream into the void some half-baked "knowledge" that you clearly do not fully grasp.
There is one thing, however, that you are misconstruing above all else:
"Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you."
Nobody is trying to prove you wrong. Everybody knows you cannot be reasoned with. Gods knows many have tried. I once did as well. Now I just make the occasional comment and accept that I'll get tagged by you in an attempt to "convert me." Don't try to argue that is not the case, I, and many others will not believe you, as you have shown a repeating pattern of behaviour that indicates the moment you feel like someone thinks differently to you in a substantial manner, you must try to correct them, or shame them, or talk down to them, or misrepresent them, because you do not understand them, and that clearly scares you, or something to that degree.
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You're really calling yourself the pinnacle of mental strength?
Logiko. I've gone from arguing with you every day to realising a very simple fact. There is no real point in debating with someone who literally does not want to empathise with the other side. You don't quite understand why people act the way they do, and then you make it into a societal issue, or a bigotry issue, or another manifestation of malice.
What you do is not discussion. It's effectively proselytization.
I just don't care. Giving up all your values -- especially when you have no idea what you are surrendering them to -- is not a sign of strength. It's the highest form of weakness.
People here, like @Uncle Van have had to tell you what communism is when you've completely misrepresented it. And yet you act like you actually know what you're talking about.
You don't.
You just have a thought of how the world "should be," and run with it. I'll give you props for never giving up on banging that drum, but it's just exhausting to watch you scream into the void some half-baked "knowledge" that you clearly do not fully grasp.
There is one thing, however, that you are misconstruing above all else:
"Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you."
Nobody is trying to prove you wrong. Everybody knows you cannot be reasoned with. Gods knows many have tried. I once did as well. Now I just make the occasional comment and accept that I'll get tagged by you in an attempt to "convert me." Don't try to argue that is not the case, I, and many others will not believe you, as you have shown a repeating pattern of behaviour that indicates the moment you feel like someone thinks differently to you in a substantial manner, you must try to correct them, or shame them, or talk down to them, or misrepresent them, because you do not understand them, and that clearly scares you, or something to that degree.
Logiko. I've gone from arguing with you every day to realising a very simple fact. There is no real point in debating with someone who literally does not want to empathise with the other side. You don't quite understand why people act the way they do, and then you make it into a societal issue, or a bigotry issue, or another manifestation of malice.
What you do is not discussion. It's effectively proselytization.
I just don't care. Giving up all your values -- especially when you have no idea what you are surrendering them to -- is not a sign of strength. It's the highest form of weakness.
People here, like @Uncle Van have had to tell you what communism is when you've completely misrepresented it. And yet you act like you actually know what you're talking about.
You don't.
You just have a thought of how the world "should be," and run with it. I'll give you props for never giving up on banging that drum, but it's just exhausting to watch you scream into the void some half-baked "knowledge" that you clearly do not fully grasp.
There is one thing, however, that you are misconstruing above all else:
"Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you."
Nobody is trying to prove you wrong. Everybody knows you cannot be reasoned with. Gods knows many have tried. I once did as well. Now I just make the occasional comment and accept that I'll get tagged by you in an attempt to "convert me." Don't try to argue that is not the case, I, and many others will not believe you, as you have shown a repeating pattern of behaviour that indicates the moment you feel like someone thinks differently to you in a substantial manner, you must try to correct them, or shame them, or talk down to them, or misrepresent them, because you do not understand them, and that clearly scares you, or something to that degree.
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You're really calling yourself the pinnacle of mental strength?
Logiko. I've gone from arguing with you every day to realising a very simple fact. There is no real point in debating with someone who literally does not want to empathise with the other side. You don't quite understand why people act the way they do, and then you make it into a societal issue, or a bigotry issue, or another manifestation of malice.
What you do is not discussion. It's effectively proselytization.
I just don't care. Giving up all your values -- especially when you have no idea what you are surrendering them to -- is not a sign of strength. It's the highest form of weakness.
People here, like @Uncle Van have had to tell you what communism is when you've completely misrepresented it. And yet you act like you actually know what you're talking about.
You don't.
You just have a thought of how the world "should be," and run with it. I'll give you props for never giving up on banging that drum, but it's just exhausting to watch you scream into the void some half-baked "knowledge" that you clearly do not fully grasp.
There is one thing, however, that you are misconstruing above all else:
"Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you."
Nobody is trying to prove you wrong. Everybody knows you cannot be reasoned with. Gods knows many have tried. I once did as well. Now I just make the occasional comment and accept that I'll get tagged by you in an attempt to "convert me." Don't try to argue that is not the case, I, and many others will not believe you, as you have shown a repeating pattern of behaviour that indicates the moment you feel like someone thinks differently to you in a substantial manner, you must try to correct them, or shame them, or talk down to them, or misrepresent them, because you do not understand them, and that clearly scares you, or something to that degree.
Logiko. I've gone from arguing with you every day to realising a very simple fact. There is no real point in debating with someone who literally does not want to empathise with the other side. You don't quite understand why people act the way they do, and then you make it into a societal issue, or a bigotry issue, or another manifestation of malice.
What you do is not discussion. It's effectively proselytization.
I just don't care. Giving up all your values -- especially when you have no idea what you are surrendering them to -- is not a sign of strength. It's the highest form of weakness.
People here, like @Uncle Van have had to tell you what communism is when you've completely misrepresented it. And yet you act like you actually know what you're talking about.
You don't.
You just have a thought of how the world "should be," and run with it. I'll give you props for never giving up on banging that drum, but it's just exhausting to watch you scream into the void some half-baked "knowledge" that you clearly do not fully grasp.
There is one thing, however, that you are misconstruing above all else:
"Me keeping the discussion going is actually a sign of an open hand. But you are so focused on the notion of proving me wrong because you don't understand what I'm saying to see the hand open in front of you."
Nobody is trying to prove you wrong. Everybody knows you cannot be reasoned with. Gods knows many have tried. I once did as well. Now I just make the occasional comment and accept that I'll get tagged by you in an attempt to "convert me." Don't try to argue that is not the case, I, and many others will not believe you, as you have shown a repeating pattern of behaviour that indicates the moment you feel like someone thinks differently to you in a substantial manner, you must try to correct them, or shame them, or talk down to them, or misrepresent them, because you do not understand them, and that clearly scares you, or something to that degree.
They want something, and since they're the "good guys on the right side of history", they create their own criteria of how the world should be and judge anyone who dares critize them on anything. Just Stop Oil protestors are a good example. If you explain to them something they were wrong about, they take it as you defending the absolutely worst aspects if it.
The issues with the world are economic and legislative ones. The social issues are just distractions to divide and conquer.
Not really. I'm only explaining the strenght it takes to scraps all your belief system. I'm not special, a lot of people were able to deradicalize themself from the far right and complotism.
Well, it feels like you already know what is in my mind. I think you don't understand that empathy does not mean acceptance.
Despite what you are saying, I do have empathy. In fact, I have a bit too much of empathy sometimes. Well I can't really prove it to you, you will have to believe me. The reality is that I was able to deradicalize myself precisely because of my empathy and my wish to understand people more. Again, I can prove anything.
- Tell me, have you ever read me saying "I hate you" to you or anyone else on this forum ?
- Tell me, how many times have I tried to debate without far rightist here despite insults, sexism, racism, genocide apology, death threats, harrassment, transphobia, ableism ?
Chances are that the answer to the first question will be "0" and the answer to the second will be "all the time".
Like I said, you are confusing empathy with acceptance. I understand each and everyone of you. I understand - for example - that you suffered from a forced transition, I understand that Nameless and Herrera are the children of a corrupt country. I understand what pushes you guys to have bigoted ideas. I understand that you think that this is for the best. I understand the hate of the left, I understand all those things...
.. But it does not mean that I have to accept them. I understand what lead germany to fascism and Nazism, but it doesn't mean that I should accept it.
Mate, I can be completely empathic to killers and terrorist, if you think I can't be empathic with simple far rightist you don't know me at all.
But again, empathy does not mean acceptance.
- I'm empathic with the distress of terrorist who think they can only bring peace by blowing themself up, but I do not accept it.
- I'm empathic with a Killer who kill a man because he raped his daughter, but I do not accept it.
- I'm empathic with transphobic people thinking that the woke mob is here to get their children, but I do not accept it
Empathy, means that we can relate in term of humanity to the deep feeling behind an action, but if said action is a murder, a terrorist act, a genocide, a repression, an extermination, racism or transphobia, its NOT ACCEPTABLE and must be denounced.
This is why I label people here.
I'm not doing it because I don't want to discuss with you guys or because I don't understand you, I understand you better that you will probably EVER understand me.
I'm doing it, because you guys must face your own actions and the reality those actions have on the world.
And yet I do. This is why you can't understand what I say. Unless you lower your belief system, you will keep circling in the belief that people like me are "radical" because of a lack of empathy, when its in reality the complete opposite.
What is really dramatic is the fact that you have seen me defend pretty much ALL the minorities and oppressed people on earth in front of people that justify genocides, transphobia, ultra capitalism, ultra liberalism and the end of social services, sexism and incels, racism, islamophobia, anti-immigration, ableism.. and yet, you keep thinking that I'm the one who is not empathic simply because I call some of you "far rightist and racist".
This is a type gaslighting on such a deep level, its magnificient.
Indeed. Unless I'm wrong on a topic (which can happen sometimes) discussion is not the way to go.
We do not discuss with ignorance.
We teach.
But my approach is not ideal, I can give you that. That's why I created the Leftist library. Instead of constantly debatting with ignorance, I can show you a way where you can learn things. Things that I had to learn myself.
I understand that you have a problem with that. Sadly, this is how it will happen and no. I won't have a discussion with ignorance.
The point is not to give up everything at once. I did that once and that's what brought me to complotism and toxic ideologies.
No. What you need is a critical mind.
You need to focus on the point that - for you - the best tool to understand reality. Then, starting from that point, you must not be afraid to lose beliefs and values if the reality shows you that you are wrong.
For example:
I was once a STRONG defensor of the notion of will and merit. I believed that those who are at the top deserved what they have because they have worked for it and they have talent.
A few years ago, I was struck with an psychic condition that challenged this idea, so during my deradicalization process, I also tried to challenge this belief to see if I was right or wrong.
For that I used the ONE THING I knew I could believe in : Science and scientists. This is where I started to learn about sociology and the notion of capitals.
With that knowledge, I started to deconstruct my belief. And I started to see meritocracy not as a core value but for what it really is : A core problem of society.
SO...
As you can see, you don't need to stop believing in everything right away. What is important is to have a critical mind and NEVER expect that you are completely right about something. And you do that, you can then hold on to the heart of your belief system to deconstruct other beliefs.
To get out of far rightists ideas, I hold on my progressist values and became liberal
To get out of complotism, I hold on the notion of critical thinking and became a sceptic
To get out of liberalism, I hold on to science and became a antimeritocratic
To get out of passivity, I hold on the belief that radicality is not necesserily a bad thing
At each point, I hold on a core value to get out of another. My belief system didn't become weaker, it became stronger.
This process is why today, I know that here, I'm one of the closest understanding of the reality of the political situation and problematic that we need to adress. This process is also why I stay vigilent everyday and why I keep learning with people who know more than me on the subject of political militantism.
My radicality is not a sign of a lack of empathy, its not a sign of a lack of understanding, its a sign that what I face needs a strong response.
I wouldn't be surprised if Van has a much better knowledge of the history of communism or leftism than me.
But you are confusing knowledge with political value.
Knowing something without understanding it will not get you far. If you know the entire history of communism but you still believe that meritocracy is a reality, then you are doomed to find communism repealing. Its completely logical. Van has the knowledge, but like most of you, he lacks the understanding of reality.
I actually OWN the fact that I don't know things. Not knowing about a system makes me less encline to be influenced by my bias toward it.
What is important in politic, is not the surface, its what makes the surface move.
And this is where you are ignorant about me. But I can't blame you, its your biases talking.
In reality, I don't know how the world should be. I did once, a decade ago, but not anymore.
I do not know what is the best : Anarchy ? Troskism ? Leninism ? Anarcho-communism ?
I do not know. Simply because that where my knowledge and my understanding of the reality ends. I've not reached that point yet. The only thing I know is that we must get rid of meritocracy, liberalism and capitalism. But beside that, I have no idea. I have only suggestions.
Again, you are confusing me with a radical leftist when I'm actually just a normie with very STRONG values.
Lol. Come on.. you are smarter than this.
And yet everyone tries
Also when I'm talking about proving me wrong, I also include this type of response. Its not always about my argument, it can also be simply about me.
Also, the belief "you cannot be reasoned with" is based on nothing but your biases. In reality - and I already proved it - I'm the one who admitted the most to be wrong about various stuff.
You are again confusing the impact of my reasonning with the impossibility of making me move.
You are simply not understanding that I'm not a wall, I was never a wall. I'm a simple door with a mirror hanging in front of it. I open myself to anyone who is willing to understand what I say, I reflect your bigotry and I'm closed to anyone who refuse to understand reality or science.
I'm not arguing here, I AM trying to "convert" you. I'm AM trying to make everyone here a leftist. I'm not hidding that hehe
If you consider that calling someone what they are (racist / Bigot / Far rightist / transphobe) is "shaming" them. Then you might need to rework your definition of the word.
Do you have example ? Because I'm right most of the time on that subject.
I was indeed scared of my lack of understanding, a long time ago.
This is not the case anymore. In reality, I love it when I don't understand something. But like I explained to you. I do no missunderstand you.
I understand you guys completely.
I might not know your entire story. But I understand pretty clearly your value system and the systemic reason behind said value system.
I know that you are the product of our society just like I'm a product of it too. The understanding is really not the issue here.
Well, it feels like you already know what is in my mind. I think you don't understand that empathy does not mean acceptance.
Despite what you are saying, I do have empathy. In fact, I have a bit too much of empathy sometimes. Well I can't really prove it to you, you will have to believe me. The reality is that I was able to deradicalize myself precisely because of my empathy and my wish to understand people more. Again, I can prove anything.
- Tell me, have you ever read me saying "I hate you" to you or anyone else on this forum ?
- Tell me, how many times have I tried to debate without far rightist here despite insults, sexism, racism, genocide apology, death threats, harrassment, transphobia, ableism ?
Chances are that the answer to the first question will be "0" and the answer to the second will be "all the time".
Like I said, you are confusing empathy with acceptance. I understand each and everyone of you. I understand - for example - that you suffered from a forced transition, I understand that Nameless and Herrera are the children of a corrupt country. I understand what pushes you guys to have bigoted ideas. I understand that you think that this is for the best. I understand the hate of the left, I understand all those things...
.. But it does not mean that I have to accept them. I understand what lead germany to fascism and Nazism, but it doesn't mean that I should accept it.
Mate, I can be completely empathic to killers and terrorist, if you think I can't be empathic with simple far rightist you don't know me at all.
But again, empathy does not mean acceptance.
- I'm empathic with the distress of terrorist who think they can only bring peace by blowing themself up, but I do not accept it.
- I'm empathic with a Killer who kill a man because he raped his daughter, but I do not accept it.
- I'm empathic with transphobic people thinking that the woke mob is here to get their children, but I do not accept it
Empathy, means that we can relate in term of humanity to the deep feeling behind an action, but if said action is a murder, a terrorist act, a genocide, a repression, an extermination, racism or transphobia, its NOT ACCEPTABLE and must be denounced.
This is why I label people here.
I'm not doing it because I don't want to discuss with you guys or because I don't understand you, I understand you better that you will probably EVER understand me.
I'm doing it, because you guys must face your own actions and the reality those actions have on the world.
And yet I do. This is why you can't understand what I say. Unless you lower your belief system, you will keep circling in the belief that people like me are "radical" because of a lack of empathy, when its in reality the complete opposite.
What is really dramatic is the fact that you have seen me defend pretty much ALL the minorities and oppressed people on earth in front of people that justify genocides, transphobia, ultra capitalism, ultra liberalism and the end of social services, sexism and incels, racism, islamophobia, anti-immigration, ableism.. and yet, you keep thinking that I'm the one who is not empathic simply because I call some of you "far rightist and racist".
This is a type gaslighting on such a deep level, its magnificient.
Indeed. Unless I'm wrong on a topic (which can happen sometimes) discussion is not the way to go.
We do not discuss with ignorance.
We teach.
But my approach is not ideal, I can give you that. That's why I created the Leftist library. Instead of constantly debatting with ignorance, I can show you a way where you can learn things. Things that I had to learn myself.
I understand that you have a problem with that. Sadly, this is how it will happen and no. I won't have a discussion with ignorance.
The point is not to give up everything at once. I did that once and that's what brought me to complotism and toxic ideologies.
No. What you need is a critical mind.
You need to focus on the point that - for you - the best tool to understand reality. Then, starting from that point, you must not be afraid to lose beliefs and values if the reality shows you that you are wrong.
For example:
I was once a STRONG defensor of the notion of will and merit. I believed that those who are at the top deserved what they have because they have worked for it and they have talent.
A few years ago, I was struck with an psychic condition that challenged this idea, so during my deradicalization process, I also tried to challenge this belief to see if I was right or wrong.
For that I used the ONE THING I knew I could believe in : Science and scientists. This is where I started to learn about sociology and the notion of capitals.
With that knowledge, I started to deconstruct my belief. And I started to see meritocracy not as a core value but for what it really is : A core problem of society.
SO...
As you can see, you don't need to stop believing in everything right away. What is important is to have a critical mind and NEVER expect that you are completely right about something. And you do that, you can then hold on to the heart of your belief system to deconstruct other beliefs.
To get out of far rightists ideas, I hold on my progressist values and became liberal
To get out of complotism, I hold on the notion of critical thinking and became a sceptic
To get out of liberalism, I hold on to science and became a antimeritocratic
To get out of passivity, I hold on the belief that radicality is not necesserily a bad thing
At each point, I hold on a core value to get out of another. My belief system didn't become weaker, it became stronger.
This process is why today, I know that here, I'm one of the closest understanding of the reality of the political situation and problematic that we need to adress. This process is also why I stay vigilent everyday and why I keep learning with people who know more than me on the subject of political militantism.
My radicality is not a sign of a lack of empathy, its not a sign of a lack of understanding, its a sign that what I face needs a strong response.
I wouldn't be surprised if Van has a much better knowledge of the history of communism or leftism than me.
But you are confusing knowledge with political value.
Knowing something without understanding it will not get you far. If you know the entire history of communism but you still believe that meritocracy is a reality, then you are doomed to find communism repealing. Its completely logical. Van has the knowledge, but like most of you, he lacks the understanding of reality.
I actually OWN the fact that I don't know things. Not knowing about a system makes me less encline to be influenced by my bias toward it.
What is important in politic, is not the surface, its what makes the surface move.
And this is where you are ignorant about me. But I can't blame you, its your biases talking.
In reality, I don't know how the world should be. I did once, a decade ago, but not anymore.
I do not know what is the best : Anarchy ? Troskism ? Leninism ? Anarcho-communism ?
I do not know. Simply because that where my knowledge and my understanding of the reality ends. I've not reached that point yet. The only thing I know is that we must get rid of meritocracy, liberalism and capitalism. But beside that, I have no idea. I have only suggestions.
Again, you are confusing me with a radical leftist when I'm actually just a normie with very STRONG values.
Lol. Come on.. you are smarter than this.
And yet everyone tries
Also when I'm talking about proving me wrong, I also include this type of response. Its not always about my argument, it can also be simply about me.
Also, the belief "you cannot be reasoned with" is based on nothing but your biases. In reality - and I already proved it - I'm the one who admitted the most to be wrong about various stuff.
You are again confusing the impact of my reasonning with the impossibility of making me move.
You are simply not understanding that I'm not a wall, I was never a wall. I'm a simple door with a mirror hanging in front of it. I open myself to anyone who is willing to understand what I say, I reflect your bigotry and I'm closed to anyone who refuse to understand reality or science.
I'm not arguing here, I AM trying to "convert" you. I'm AM trying to make everyone here a leftist. I'm not hidding that hehe
If you consider that calling someone what they are (racist / Bigot / Far rightist / transphobe) is "shaming" them. Then you might need to rework your definition of the word.
Do you have example ? Because I'm right most of the time on that subject.
I was indeed scared of my lack of understanding, a long time ago.
This is not the case anymore. In reality, I love it when I don't understand something. But like I explained to you. I do no missunderstand you.
I understand you guys completely.
I might not know your entire story. But I understand pretty clearly your value system and the systemic reason behind said value system.
I know that you are the product of our society just like I'm a product of it too. The understanding is really not the issue here.
