Character Discussion Zoro is Alpha, Sanji is an envious Beta as per the One Piece manga latest chapter
- Thread starter ThunderSupernova
- Start date
Perhaps you misread my comment, my point is that science (nor swordsmanship) are not comparable or distinct from Haki, but are both beneath Haki and rely upon it
My ass
Garp & Sengoku were on par with Roger and they never used a sword
Going to reiterate it as well since you decided to ignore me: Whitebeard and Roger were both skilled swordsmen so it couldn't have been Rogers swordsmanship that equalled WB's fruit, it was his haki
No need to attack my GOAT just because Oda values swordsmanship so highly he decided to make Luffy a brawler, and his subordinate a swordsman
Post automatically merged:
My ass
Garp & Sengoku were on par with Roger and they never used a sword
Going to reiterate it as well since you decided to ignore me: Whitebeard and Roger were both skilled swordsmen so it couldn't have been Rogers swordsmanship that equalled WB's fruit, it was his haki
No need to attack my GOAT just because Oda values swordsmanship so highly he decided to make Luffy a brawler, and his subordinate a swordsman
Last edited:
I did not, but you misread mine.
Haki and swordsmanship have the same relation as brawling and haki.
Haki is not some exclusive power system for a specific fighting style. Haki is used by ANYONE. Be it DF user, swordsman, brawler or clown.
You can not become a strong swordsman without haki, much less the strongest. Haki will always remain as the filter.
Swordsmanship, or using a weapon in general, has very real perks even in One Piece.
A fighting style that incorporates a weapon or a fruit will be inherently stronger for several reasons.
Its easier to avoid attacks. If you can block with a weapon, especially against another sharp or pointy one, it requires no haki to do so. Someone unarmed has to use haki and therefor stamina.
Its easier to cut something in half than punch it in half. It requires less energy.
The big downside is that losing the weapon can be devastating.
In the end haki could even the field. Which is actually pretty stupid if you think about it as it invalidates nearly all fighting styles.
This is still up for debate though. We only had one unarmed alledged top tier so far, Garp. Having literal magical powers on top of prime haki would still leave a DF user at an advantage.
When haki is the only deciding factor in a fight then why are there even different fighting styles?!?
So I would not exactly rule out that swordsmanship in itself was a deciding factor why Roger was Whitebeards equal. It was not his haki alone that that it, it was both. Rogers swordsmenship together with his haki.
Haki and swordsmanship have the same relation as brawling and haki.
Haki is not some exclusive power system for a specific fighting style. Haki is used by ANYONE. Be it DF user, swordsman, brawler or clown.
You can not become a strong swordsman without haki, much less the strongest. Haki will always remain as the filter.
Swordsmanship, or using a weapon in general, has very real perks even in One Piece.
A fighting style that incorporates a weapon or a fruit will be inherently stronger for several reasons.
Its easier to avoid attacks. If you can block with a weapon, especially against another sharp or pointy one, it requires no haki to do so. Someone unarmed has to use haki and therefor stamina.
Its easier to cut something in half than punch it in half. It requires less energy.
The big downside is that losing the weapon can be devastating.
In the end haki could even the field. Which is actually pretty stupid if you think about it as it invalidates nearly all fighting styles.
This is still up for debate though. We only had one unarmed alledged top tier so far, Garp. Having literal magical powers on top of prime haki would still leave a DF user at an advantage.
When haki is the only deciding factor in a fight then why are there even different fighting styles?!?
So I would not exactly rule out that swordsmanship in itself was a deciding factor why Roger was Whitebeards equal. It was not his haki alone that that it, it was both. Rogers swordsmenship together with his haki.
Whitebeard was narratively no less of a swordsman, he had a Supreme Grade Blade.
Zoro fans have 0 answer to why Kaido highlighted Roger's Haki transcending all, not his haki + swordsmanship like you're saying.
Not reading the rest because I already know and agree, and all of that also applies to Whitebeard who was a swordsman
By the way, much of this applies to devil-fruits as well?
How many examples do we have of swordsman using DF to amplify their strength?
-Law
-Meme
-Fujitora
-King
In terms of which abilities amplify a character's power the most,
Haki > Fruits >>>> ordinary fighting style (swordsmanship, brawling, kicking etc.)
Zoro fans have 0 answer to why Kaido highlighted Roger's Haki transcending all, not his haki + swordsmanship like you're saying.
Not reading the rest because I already know and agree, and all of that also applies to Whitebeard who was a swordsman
Post automatically merged:
By the way, much of this applies to devil-fruits as well?
How many examples do we have of swordsman using DF to amplify their strength?
-Law
-Meme
-Fujitora
-King
In terms of which abilities amplify a character's power the most,
Haki > Fruits >>>> ordinary fighting style (swordsmanship, brawling, kicking etc.)
Last edited:
A supreme grade blade is not necessarily a sword. As seen with WBs weapon. Which is not a sword.
He does not highlight Rogers haki. Kaido highlight haki in general.
There is no Roger without swordsmanship. You can not separate both.
Law and Fujitora. The other 2 are not swordsmen.
Highly debatable and depens on the fruit.
Also, a brawler with weak haki can still lose to a physically strong swordsman without haki because he has to waste energy on haki just to be able to avoid getting cut to pieces.
Haki has been overpowered in the past by brute force. Its the ability that CAN allow a user to transcend all, but not necessarily does.
He does not highlight Rogers haki. Kaido highlight haki in general.
There is no Roger without swordsmanship. You can not separate both.
Law and Fujitora. The other 2 are not swordsmen.
Highly debatable and depens on the fruit.
Also, a brawler with weak haki can still lose to a physically strong swordsman without haki because he has to waste energy on haki just to be able to avoid getting cut to pieces.
Haki has been overpowered in the past by brute force. Its the ability that CAN allow a user to transcend all, but not necessarily does.
I'll call it a blade then:
Roger was no more skilled as a swordsman than Whitebeard as a bladesmen
He used Roger as an example
Kaido: "Roger lacked a DF, but what he had was haki"
Kaido says right here his haki filled the DF deficit, not his fighting style. Roger could have had any fighting style, it's his haki specifically that made him strong
Yeah we can seperate them actually, because Kaido highlighted his haki as being his source of power, Roger could have been granted any fighting style to live with and he would still be Whitebeard's rival
Yeah so 2 golden examples. I can give more if you want not sure if you'd arbitrarily write it off or not
Roger was no more skilled as a swordsman than Whitebeard as a bladesmen
He used Roger as an example
Kaido: "Roger lacked a DF, but what he had was haki"
Kaido says right here his haki filled the DF deficit, not his fighting style. Roger could have had any fighting style, it's his haki specifically that made him strong
Yeah we can seperate them actually, because Kaido highlighted his haki as being his source of power, Roger could have been granted any fighting style to live with and he would still be Whitebeard's rival
Yeah so 2 golden examples. I can give more if you want not sure if you'd arbitrarily write it off or not
Not a theory
Straight up from the very manga
"You should be ashamed!”
Bro... what?
Ashamed... of what? What should Zoro be ashamed of? Ashamed of being an Alpha male? Of being one of The Strong, the natural-born Conqueror Haki users who fear nothing?
This is easily why Luffy > Zoro >>> Sanji
This is why no CoC vs both Adv CoC, no Supernova vs both Worst Generation Supernovas and so on
Sanji will always be tiers below Zoro and Luffy
Luffy and Zoro just built different
Attitude and potential completely different
- Note how we see that from the very start
- Note how that's incredibly consistent from the very start to now, more than 1000 chapters later
Then
Now
What changed? Nothing
The Beta couldn't understand the two Alphas
The Beta still can't understand the two Alphas
This is also why Zoro and Sanji have their gags
Sanji is envious of Zoro, and Zoro doesn't want to be dragged down with Sanji
@Finalbeta @T.D.A @Zowo @yorosenpai @ConquistadoR @Fleet Leader Fenaker @The White Crane @kumae @Sentinel @Orojackson Refugee @Peroroncino @Redboy776 @Rekien @Sword God Ryuma @nik87 @Manos. AsuraZoro @NAMELESS @Blazing Lion @Reborn @Gelo @bennbeckman @mly90 @Akagami Law @style @HA001 @sanji D Goat @Gauntlet @Marimo_420 @Shishi @Money D Malio @ShadowStyle369 @matt245 @ShishioIsBack @Cyrus the Cactus
Straight up from the very manga
"You should be ashamed!”
Bro... what?
Ashamed... of what? What should Zoro be ashamed of? Ashamed of being an Alpha male? Of being one of The Strong, the natural-born Conqueror Haki users who fear nothing?
This is easily why Luffy > Zoro >>> Sanji
This is why no CoC vs both Adv CoC, no Supernova vs both Worst Generation Supernovas and so on
Sanji will always be tiers below Zoro and Luffy
Luffy and Zoro just built different
Attitude and potential completely different
- Note how we see that from the very start
- Note how that's incredibly consistent from the very start to now, more than 1000 chapters later
Then
Now
What changed? Nothing
The Beta couldn't understand the two Alphas
The Beta still can't understand the two Alphas
This is also why Zoro and Sanji have their gags
Sanji is envious of Zoro, and Zoro doesn't want to be dragged down with Sanji
@Finalbeta @T.D.A @Zowo @yorosenpai @ConquistadoR @Fleet Leader Fenaker @The White Crane @kumae @Sentinel @Orojackson Refugee @Peroroncino @Redboy776 @Rekien @Sword God Ryuma @nik87 @Manos. AsuraZoro @NAMELESS @Blazing Lion @Reborn @Gelo @bennbeckman @mly90 @Akagami Law @style @HA001 @sanji D Goat @Gauntlet @Marimo_420 @Shishi @Money D Malio @ShadowStyle369 @matt245 @ShishioIsBack @Cyrus the Cactus
