Chapter Discussion It should've been Sanji vs Kizaru in Egghead
- Thread starter a_fan
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Nearly everyone hates Egghead arc 1108 onwards. There's no sense in denying that.
I said he should perform better cause literally that's what other commanders have shown. They should not be burdens that can't even fight alongside the captain, which is what Sanji was treated as.
Why even have Sanji stay then? Could have left with Franky as Franky was about to leave with Vegapunk in 1107. Why stall that out another chapter, after all you said they need to get Vegapunks body out, so why drag it out? Why create that "bait and switch" by making it look like Sanji will fight alongside Luffy in 1107, and then in 1108 nope he's leaving just like Franky 5 seconds later.
I said he should perform better cause literally that's what other commanders have shown. They should not be burdens that can't even fight alongside the captain, which is what Sanji was treated as.
Why even have Sanji stay then? Could have left with Franky as Franky was about to leave with Vegapunk in 1107. Why stall that out another chapter, after all you said they need to get Vegapunks body out, so why drag it out? Why create that "bait and switch" by making it look like Sanji will fight alongside Luffy in 1107, and then in 1108 nope he's leaving just like Franky 5 seconds later.
I know you're not a native English speaker but let me educate you
The scene begins with Kizaru saying "Well, now I'm in a pickle"
His usage of "Now," implies a different circumstance from before
And the only thing that changed from before this scene to now, is that Sanji is now standing directly in Kizarus way
Vegapunk lying down is circumstantially nothing new, so there's no reason for Kizaru to say he's "now" in a pickle. So that's why it makes 0 fucking sense for him to be referring to Vegapunk here lmao
The scene begins with Kizaru saying "Well, now I'm in a pickle"
His usage of "Now," implies a different circumstance from before
And the only thing that changed from before this scene to now, is that Sanji is now standing directly in Kizarus way
Vegapunk lying down is circumstantially nothing new, so there's no reason for Kizaru to say he's "now" in a pickle. So that's why it makes 0 fucking sense for him to be referring to Vegapunk here lmao
I know you're not a native English speaker but let me educate you
The scene begins with Kizaru saying "Well, now I'm in a pickle"
His usage of "Now," implies a different circumstance from before
And the only thing that changed from before this scene to now, is that Sanji is now standing directly in Kizarus way
Vegapunk lying down is circumstantially nothing new, so there's no reason for Kizaru to say he's "now" in a pickle. So that's why it makes 0 fucking sense for him to be referring to Vegapunk here lmao
The scene begins with Kizaru saying "Well, now I'm in a pickle"
His usage of "Now," implies a different circumstance from before
And the only thing that changed from before this scene to now, is that Sanji is now standing directly in Kizarus way
Vegapunk lying down is circumstantially nothing new, so there's no reason for Kizaru to say he's "now" in a pickle. So that's why it makes 0 fucking sense for him to be referring to Vegapunk here lmao
Nearly everyone HERE***
Don't confuse yourself mate. This hatred you feel is - fortunatly - still just the opinion of a minority in the fanbase. An opinion based on nothing but illegitimate expectation and the COMPLETE and UTTER missunderstanding of the simple narration that is One Piece.
Your arguments are not new, I was already facing them in Thriller barck at the time, already facing them in Impel Down, already facing them in fishmen Island, Punk hazard and Dressrosa.. Faced them HEAD ON during whole cake and Wano and once again in Egghead.
It's
ALWAYS
The
Same
F.
Argument
"I wanted the story to..."
The problem is that it is a behavior that is related to the media illiteracy of fandoms (it's not something related only to One Piece, it happened also in a LOT of stories). And for 99% of the critics it's due to one simple thing:
Illegitimate expectations
Which is illegitimate expectation 101:
1. Sanji has shown that he could fight an admiral at least for a time. So much that it surprised him.
2. Sanji might be a commander but nothing tells us that his function is to fight
3. Sanji proved himself multiple time. There is absolutely NO NEED to extent something that we already know. This would be bad narration. UNLESS it's important thematically or for the story and the situation.
Sanji is treated as the opposite of a burden in those interactions. You can't read.
Because that's the aftershock of him blocking the shot. And he wanted to talk sh*t to Kizaru's face. Simple.
Character in One Piece are not robots, they are humans with prides and flaws. They do not do the most efficiant things everytime. If you want to read a manga like that, go read Death Note.
Because the trashtalking is cool.. Why do you need another reason ?
FFS
There is no bait and switch here. A bait and switch would have been for Oda to make Sanji say that he will fight Kizaru no matter what one on one.
Sanji just replied to Kizaru here, nothing more.
That was a possibility, but not the only one.
You choosed to focused on only one possibility. Hence why you can't appreciate the story when it subvert your expectation and why I can do just that.
That's cute.
This change absolutely nothing. Like I explained to your pal just above, there was a possibility of a fight, but:
1. This was not the most reasonable option looking at the body of Vegapunk lying there
2. This was just an option out of many and you guyz choose to stick and obsess on the only option that fitted your agendas.
The story is not at fault here. AT WORST, Oda made you think that there would be a 2v1 fight against Kizaru which did not happen by giving you an even better and exciting thing by giving you a 2v1 of LUffy VS Kizaru and Saturn at the same time instead.
In other words, even in the WORST case where there was indeed a slight possibility of a fight, Oda gave us something better in return.
The problem is that as the ungrateful people that you are, you can't even appreciate what Oda did with Luffy against Saturn and Kizaru, because you were too busy b*tching oabout not seeing a cook fight an admiral.
Meanwhile those like me who actually stop our illegitimate expectations jumped in awe and excitement to this
Don't confuse yourself mate. This hatred you feel is - fortunatly - still just the opinion of a minority in the fanbase. An opinion based on nothing but illegitimate expectation and the COMPLETE and UTTER missunderstanding of the simple narration that is One Piece.
Your arguments are not new, I was already facing them in Thriller barck at the time, already facing them in Impel Down, already facing them in fishmen Island, Punk hazard and Dressrosa.. Faced them HEAD ON during whole cake and Wano and once again in Egghead.
It's
ALWAYS
The
Same
F.
Argument
"I wanted the story to..."
The problem is that it is a behavior that is related to the media illiteracy of fandoms (it's not something related only to One Piece, it happened also in a LOT of stories). And for 99% of the critics it's due to one simple thing:
Illegitimate expectations
Which is illegitimate expectation 101:
1. Sanji has shown that he could fight an admiral at least for a time. So much that it surprised him.
2. Sanji might be a commander but nothing tells us that his function is to fight
3. Sanji proved himself multiple time. There is absolutely NO NEED to extent something that we already know. This would be bad narration. UNLESS it's important thematically or for the story and the situation.
Sanji is treated as the opposite of a burden in those interactions. You can't read.
Because that's the aftershock of him blocking the shot. And he wanted to talk sh*t to Kizaru's face. Simple.
Character in One Piece are not robots, they are humans with prides and flaws. They do not do the most efficiant things everytime. If you want to read a manga like that, go read Death Note.
Because the trashtalking is cool.. Why do you need another reason ?
FFS
There is no bait and switch here. A bait and switch would have been for Oda to make Sanji say that he will fight Kizaru no matter what one on one.
Sanji just replied to Kizaru here, nothing more.
That was a possibility, but not the only one.
You choosed to focused on only one possibility. Hence why you can't appreciate the story when it subvert your expectation and why I can do just that.
That's cute.
His usage of "Now," implies a different circumstance from before
And the only thing that changed from before this scene to now, is that Sanji is now standing directly in Kizarus way
Vegapunk lying down is circumstantially nothing new, so there's no reason for Kizaru to say he's "now" in a pickle. So that's why it makes 0 fucking sense for him to be referring to Vegapunk here lmao
And the only thing that changed from before this scene to now, is that Sanji is now standing directly in Kizarus way
Vegapunk lying down is circumstantially nothing new, so there's no reason for Kizaru to say he's "now" in a pickle. So that's why it makes 0 fucking sense for him to be referring to Vegapunk here lmao
1. This was not the most reasonable option looking at the body of Vegapunk lying there
2. This was just an option out of many and you guyz choose to stick and obsess on the only option that fitted your agendas.
The story is not at fault here. AT WORST, Oda made you think that there would be a 2v1 fight against Kizaru which did not happen by giving you an even better and exciting thing by giving you a 2v1 of LUffy VS Kizaru and Saturn at the same time instead.
In other words, even in the WORST case where there was indeed a slight possibility of a fight, Oda gave us something better in return.
The problem is that as the ungrateful people that you are, you can't even appreciate what Oda did with Luffy against Saturn and Kizaru, because you were too busy b*tching oabout not seeing a cook fight an admiral.
Meanwhile those like me who actually stop our illegitimate expectations jumped in awe and excitement to this
You have to question yourself why he is "now in a pickle". The reason is simple : Luffy attacked the Gorosai.
So what was a battle to kill Vegapunk seems to be transforming into a battle to kill Luffy and the strawhats as well.
In other words, Kizaru is talking about Vegapunk (that he already downed) AND all the strawhats especially Luffy. Not Sanji. You imagined a battle between Sanji and Kizaru when Oda was creating a potential battle of KIzaru against Luffy as the leader of the strawhats that defied the gorousai.
This is a question of reading comprehension as they say.. And it's indeed a case closed.
So what was a battle to kill Vegapunk seems to be transforming into a battle to kill Luffy and the strawhats as well.
In other words, Kizaru is talking about Vegapunk (that he already downed) AND all the strawhats especially Luffy. Not Sanji. You imagined a battle between Sanji and Kizaru when Oda was creating a potential battle of KIzaru against Luffy as the leader of the strawhats that defied the gorousai.
This is a question of reading comprehension as they say.. And it's indeed a case closed.
Yeah so you just admit here Kizaru was speaking with intentions to fight Luffy and the Strawhats, so why shouldn't readers expect Kizaru to fight Luffy + Sanji here?
I don't actually, I imagine Luffy and Sanji vs Kizaru given only those 2 were posing an immediate obstacle to Kizaru. You say Kizaru intended to fight the other Strawhat as well, I'd agree, so why wouldn't he also fight Sanji too? Is Sanji not a strawhat?
I don't actually, I imagine Luffy and Sanji vs Kizaru given only those 2 were posing an immediate obstacle to Kizaru. You say Kizaru intended to fight the other Strawhat as well, I'd agree, so why wouldn't he also fight Sanji too? Is Sanji not a strawhat?
Because Luffy is here. And if you are able to read correctly up until now, you would see that Luffy do not need any help.
See, that's the difference between me and you. I knew that Luffy could take care of that alone and there was no reason for Sanji to intervene. At worse, you could start to imagine thinking that once Saturns comes back after, but Oda directly adresses that to use this situation to show Luffy's improvement.
See, that's the difference between me and you. I knew that Luffy could take care of that alone and there was no reason for Sanji to intervene. At worse, you could start to imagine thinking that once Saturns comes back after, but Oda directly adresses that to use this situation to show Luffy's improvement.
Whether Luffy needs help or not is a different discussion entirely, that's for the battledome
The question is, is it realistic for the reader to expect Sanji to help fight?
Given that Sanji just blocked Kizaru's attack and was directly standing in his way, yes.
Yeah except we don't even know if Luffy took care of it alone, as others in this thread have noted it's very likely that Sanji, Luffy, and Kizaru fought off-screen while Saturn was speaking to the Titanic Captains.
In which case...again, viewers expecting Kizaru vs Sanji, even in a 1v2 which Luffy, are vindicated.
The question is, is it realistic for the reader to expect Sanji to help fight?
Given that Sanji just blocked Kizaru's attack and was directly standing in his way, yes.
Yeah except we don't even know if Luffy took care of it alone, as others in this thread have noted it's very likely that Sanji, Luffy, and Kizaru fought off-screen while Saturn was speaking to the Titanic Captains.
In which case...again, viewers expecting Kizaru vs Sanji, even in a 1v2 which Luffy, are vindicated.
No it's not. It was literally shown just before this moment against Kizaru. This was a no brainer.
Fan's expectations are not a metric of a story being good or bad mate.
Usually, fan's expectations are BAD for the story overall. An simple ex is expecting Sanji to have a big fighting moment in Whole cake. Which a LOT of fan did while completely ignoring that it was against the development and purpose of Sanji's characterization in the arc.
There is a difference between expecting a POSSIBILITY (Sanji fighting Kizaru) and calling trash when said possibility has been ruled out.
We do. ReRead the arrival of Kizaru.
Most likely not. You need to understand that Oda can't show you two things at the same time. And what happened in the end of chapter 1107 is most likely what happened JUST after Luffy send Saturn away. In other words, they did not fight since Saturn return right away after his discussion.
For the wrong reasons. There was no reasons to expect that once again. Your arguments are simply bad.
And there is no debate to have. The chapter is clear. Oda is AT BEST setting up a battle with Luffy and Sanji which he transformed into Luffy VS two which is EVEN BETTER. So there are absolutely NO reasons to be upset, PERIOD.
Unless of course you don't care about the narration or surprises. In which case, hate all you want, but you will never see me call you a One Piece fan.
Fan's expectations are not a metric of a story being good or bad mate.
Usually, fan's expectations are BAD for the story overall. An simple ex is expecting Sanji to have a big fighting moment in Whole cake. Which a LOT of fan did while completely ignoring that it was against the development and purpose of Sanji's characterization in the arc.
There is a difference between expecting a POSSIBILITY (Sanji fighting Kizaru) and calling trash when said possibility has been ruled out.
We do. ReRead the arrival of Kizaru.
Most likely not. You need to understand that Oda can't show you two things at the same time. And what happened in the end of chapter 1107 is most likely what happened JUST after Luffy send Saturn away. In other words, they did not fight since Saturn return right away after his discussion.
For the wrong reasons. There was no reasons to expect that once again. Your arguments are simply bad.
And there is no debate to have. The chapter is clear. Oda is AT BEST setting up a battle with Luffy and Sanji which he transformed into Luffy VS two which is EVEN BETTER. So there are absolutely NO reasons to be upset, PERIOD.
Unless of course you don't care about the narration or surprises. In which case, hate all you want, but you will never see me call you a One Piece fan.
1107: Vegapunk can't be moved or he'll die. Sanji and Luffy confront Kizaru who plans to take their heads.
1108: Vegapunk now can be moved? Kizaru disappears for 30 seconds to potentially several minutes as we wait for Saturn to show up.
Why didn't Luffy just have Franky take Vegapunk in 1107, rather than ask Sanji 2 minutes later to do so? Sanji could have better protected Vegapunk that way as well.
It's just Oda contradicting what he wrote the previous chapter, as usual. Just like he did in 1104 to 1105.
And the end result was just more NikaPiece. Only Luffy must look good, everyone else must remain ants in comparison. Only Luffy must eat and re-enter the fight 5 times, can't have the crew stepup while he's tired. Can't even have the combined attacks of Bonney, Franky, and Sanji's ultimate attack give him more than an ouch.
1108: Vegapunk now can be moved? Kizaru disappears for 30 seconds to potentially several minutes as we wait for Saturn to show up.
Why didn't Luffy just have Franky take Vegapunk in 1107, rather than ask Sanji 2 minutes later to do so? Sanji could have better protected Vegapunk that way as well.
It's just Oda contradicting what he wrote the previous chapter, as usual. Just like he did in 1104 to 1105.
And the end result was just more NikaPiece. Only Luffy must look good, everyone else must remain ants in comparison. Only Luffy must eat and re-enter the fight 5 times, can't have the crew stepup while he's tired. Can't even have the combined attacks of Bonney, Franky, and Sanji's ultimate attack give him more than an ouch.