Controversial General Political Discussion
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And what do you think about it @Uncle Van ?,
Surplus value is the difference between cost of manufacturing and what it is sold for. It's fatally flawed, as it operates on the assumption that the sum of the parts is equal to the value. This is simply not true. Besides, selling the good to the correct customer/market is also a skill.
I don't quite understand why it makes the wage system theft. The wage system essentially detaches people from their labour (which in my mind - is bad - since it's incredibly demotivating). Ultimately however, they are willingly selling their labour to someone. What the hirer does with that product and how they generate wealth from it is their own prerogative.
I don't quite understand why it makes the wage system theft. The wage system essentially detaches people from their labour (which in my mind - is bad - since it's incredibly demotivating). Ultimately however, they are willingly selling their labour to someone. What the hirer does with that product and how they generate wealth from it is their own prerogative.
I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing, this is what I'm reffering to and I will answer with it to Reborn,
The idea is that the capitalist owns a factory, and the workers work the factory, producing some goods or services that have some value, but that the workers create all of the value, and that the capitalist takes it as profit, and only gives them back part of it as wages,
The idea is that the capitalist owns a factory, and the workers work the factory, producing some goods or services that have some value, but that the workers create all of the value, and that the capitalist takes it as profit, and only gives them back part of it as wages,
It's the same as what I was saying, in a sense. Worker's labour is part of the cost of manufacturing. Hence the value that is formed from the sell of the good (the gained value) is the surplus value.
It falls flat because those workers do not have the assets/plant and machinery to create those goods. The owner takes on all the risk and liability of failure and reaps the benefits. It's not theft if the worker willingly follows the processes that has that good created. I do think people should aim to work for themselves, however.
It falls flat because those workers do not have the assets/plant and machinery to create those goods. The owner takes on all the risk and liability of failure and reaps the benefits. It's not theft if the worker willingly follows the processes that has that good created. I do think people should aim to work for themselves, however.
And yet.. they do not contribute when they are kids.
So you are ONLY investing in a probability
The point I'm making is that, no person, stay completely non productive. But everyone has a different way of doing it. The problem is that you want to impose what YOU think is productivity on people who have a different vision of it. Hence why you say inhuman stuff as "some people doesn't deserve help"
And there is no nonsense with what I say, you just don't understand it ;)
Not "willingly" capitalism is exploitation, giving up the labor is not a choice. If people don't do it, they will often be homeless.
It IS theft.
Which is the problem.
So you are ONLY investing in a probability
The point I'm making is that, no person, stay completely non productive. But everyone has a different way of doing it. The problem is that you want to impose what YOU think is productivity on people who have a different vision of it. Hence why you say inhuman stuff as "some people doesn't deserve help"
And there is no nonsense with what I say, you just don't understand it ;)
Not "willingly" capitalism is exploitation, giving up the labor is not a choice. If people don't do it, they will often be homeless.
It IS theft.
Which is the problem.
True, the surplus value created by the work done, which is taken from the worker and not given as a wage, but kept as profit,
I think the idea is that it is theft because workers own nothing and must sell their labour, while the capitalist owns everything and has the work done for them just because they own that factory,
And the idea of socialism is to make the workers collectively own that factory, and decide how it is run, what to do, how to organise it, and to take the surplus value for themselves to use, instead of a capitalist taking it,
I think the idea is that it is theft because workers own nothing and must sell their labour, while the capitalist owns everything and has the work done for them just because they own that factory,
And the idea of socialism is to make the workers collectively own that factory, and decide how it is run, what to do, how to organise it, and to take the surplus value for themselves to use, instead of a capitalist taking it,
And one of the reasons I mentioned it is because I saw it be talked about how why should people get money from another's wirk just for existing on earth, but as an example, even if Elon Musk is the top performing worker at all his companies, his work would still be relatively nothing compared to the work of his workers,
I think its bullshit too. Factory workers for the most part add zero value to anything, they literally push buttons and do the simplest of tasks. Meanwhile, the factory owners had to raise the money to buy raw materials and build a fucking factory. Who do you think is more important : Some random guy that pushes buttons and carries boxes or a guy that has the wits and intelligence to create a large scale business? Workers are paid for their skills and time spent being productive. A product's worth is determined by costs of production and how much it is valued on the market. Workers influence the price of things by influencing the cost of production. The more skilled you are, the more expensive it is to hire you and that will translate into a higher priced product, cause businessman need to cover their expenses. Surplus value in reality means return of investment. If businessmen didn't price their products to cover production costs. They would be literally having 0 profit. What is the point of a product that doesn't earn money? You might as well don't hire anyone and keep your money in your bank account, casue afterall the result will be the same.
Marxism is silly and stupid. It thrives on the envy of the uneducated.
Marxism is silly and stupid. It thrives on the envy of the uneducated.
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Can any of his workers raise billions and administer that large enterprise as to be profitable? Elon is an extreme example,cause he is a genius and a inventor. i'm self employed, i have my own business. It takes smarts to keep things profitable. People that never tried to own a business have no idea how hard it is to be successful.