Questions & Mysteries Team Gaban or Team Shiki?
- Thread starter DarkWitch
- Start date
I dont know what Gaban could possibly offer to the story considering that he is inferior to Rayleigh in every way.
While he could have the same knowledge of the voyage as Rayleigh does, the Strawhats do not want to hear it.
Shiki would be a nice surprise but considering that he was used for a movie, his chances are slim.
I would bet on neither of them but choosing between them, team Shiki all the way.
While he could have the same knowledge of the voyage as Rayleigh does, the Strawhats do not want to hear it.
Shiki would be a nice surprise but considering that he was used for a movie, his chances are slim.
I would bet on neither of them but choosing between them, team Shiki all the way.
I'll remind you, your original statement that I replied to was the claim that Rocks is turning out to be more important than Gol D. Roger to the story. We're not discussing whether Rocks is important or not, we're discussing specifically him being more important than the Pirate King.
1. Yes him being the quintessential pirate to the average schmuck already sets his importance at a higher degree than Xebec's. But I reckon you don't count this to the story's importance, even though the main premise of the story stems from this. But let's ignore this for now.
2. You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of One Piece. The treasure's originator is Gol D. Roger, it's not joyboy or any other chump. There is no rediscovering of One Piece, the idea of One Piece didn't exist before Roger. And what is the idea of One Piece? somebody asks Roger where he left his treasure and replied: "My treasure? If you want it, you can have it... Just look for it! I've put everything in the world there." <<<< this Treasure in which Roger states that he put everything of his in there... is what the people started referring to as One Piece. And Whitebeard then gives the confirmation that Roger wasn't joking that the treasure in which ROGER put everything in the world, exists. But the treasure is something created by Roger, just as Captain John's treasure is something created by Captain John. You can say he rediscovered Laughtale (though in the manga it'd be him discovering it not rediscovering it), but not rediscovered One Piece.
3. Luffy is carrying Roger's will. An individual can carry the wills of multiple people. I don't know why you would say "rather carrying joyboy's will". When Newgate who knew about the void century and everything, explicitly tells us Luffy and many others are carrying Roger's will.
4. That's fine you're free to believe what you'd like of course. But that's you wanting Xebec to be that, not what the story has told us as of yet. I'm never the one to shut down people's theories or headcannons on characters who are mysteries. But you can't use those as the basis for saying Xebec is turning out to be more important than Roger. Because all of that shit hasn't happened in the story. We don't know what Roger wanted, except his goal/dream was the same as Luffy's. As for attack on God Valley, we already know the sole reason they attacked it was because they were there to attain something which Newgate first wanted to confirm that it was even there before they got into a fight when they landed on God Valley. (More than likely they came for Kaido's DF and the other, since it gets hyped up by Ginny right before they arrive.)
5. That's not me seeing Xebec as a terrorist. That's my describing who he was based on the known information about him from credible sources. They're attacking civilians... Outside of Newgate and Goloriosa rest aren't exactly all that nice... Kaido and Big Mamu are some of the biggest genocidal freaks we know, willing to burn entire islands on just not getting candy, the other willing to exterminate an entire kingdom with gas... just because he can. These people were underlings. How in god's blue earth is Roger the same as them?? Because people got greedy and started going after his treasure that he left on an island that only he's ever gone to? Bruhz do you realize that has nothing to do with being a terrorist yea?
Also the fact Roger didn't have any intention of fighting Rocks, and rather even told Rocks to wait.. but the latter chose to fight still.
In the very chapter, where Sengoku in front of Brannew and others hypes up how big and dangerous xebec was, how he opened assaulted the WG... the pirates that the World Government considered the biggest threats were still... Edward Newgate and Gol D. Roger.
1. Yes him being the quintessential pirate to the average schmuck already sets his importance at a higher degree than Xebec's. But I reckon you don't count this to the story's importance, even though the main premise of the story stems from this. But let's ignore this for now.
2. You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of One Piece. The treasure's originator is Gol D. Roger, it's not joyboy or any other chump. There is no rediscovering of One Piece, the idea of One Piece didn't exist before Roger. And what is the idea of One Piece? somebody asks Roger where he left his treasure and replied: "My treasure? If you want it, you can have it... Just look for it! I've put everything in the world there." <<<< this Treasure in which Roger states that he put everything of his in there... is what the people started referring to as One Piece. And Whitebeard then gives the confirmation that Roger wasn't joking that the treasure in which ROGER put everything in the world, exists. But the treasure is something created by Roger, just as Captain John's treasure is something created by Captain John. You can say he rediscovered Laughtale (though in the manga it'd be him discovering it not rediscovering it), but not rediscovered One Piece.
3. Luffy is carrying Roger's will. An individual can carry the wills of multiple people. I don't know why you would say "rather carrying joyboy's will". When Newgate who knew about the void century and everything, explicitly tells us Luffy and many others are carrying Roger's will.
4. That's fine you're free to believe what you'd like of course. But that's you wanting Xebec to be that, not what the story has told us as of yet. I'm never the one to shut down people's theories or headcannons on characters who are mysteries. But you can't use those as the basis for saying Xebec is turning out to be more important than Roger. Because all of that shit hasn't happened in the story. We don't know what Roger wanted, except his goal/dream was the same as Luffy's. As for attack on God Valley, we already know the sole reason they attacked it was because they were there to attain something which Newgate first wanted to confirm that it was even there before they got into a fight when they landed on God Valley. (More than likely they came for Kaido's DF and the other, since it gets hyped up by Ginny right before they arrive.)
5. That's not me seeing Xebec as a terrorist. That's my describing who he was based on the known information about him from credible sources. They're attacking civilians... Outside of Newgate and Goloriosa rest aren't exactly all that nice... Kaido and Big Mamu are some of the biggest genocidal freaks we know, willing to burn entire islands on just not getting candy, the other willing to exterminate an entire kingdom with gas... just because he can. These people were underlings. How in god's blue earth is Roger the same as them?? Because people got greedy and started going after his treasure that he left on an island that only he's ever gone to? Bruhz do you realize that has nothing to do with being a terrorist yea?
Also the fact Roger didn't have any intention of fighting Rocks, and rather even told Rocks to wait.. but the latter chose to fight still.
In the very chapter, where Sengoku in front of Brannew and others hypes up how big and dangerous xebec was, how he opened assaulted the WG... the pirates that the World Government considered the biggest threats were still... Edward Newgate and Gol D. Roger.
No, it's not Roger's treasure. It is simply known as his. Thanks to Roger's last words, the One Piece gained fame and attracted the attention that hadn't been able to since the Void Century. But what awaits at Laugh Tale is what Joy Boy left behind. Roger named it and popularized it. Without Roger, there would never be any race for the OP. But the OP itself would still be there--it's JB's safeguard against the world forgetting what truly happened during the Void Century (plus, most likely, a way to revert the results of IMU's dominion).
You are misunderstanding me in regard to in- and out-of-story importance.
Roger is an important figure. To the world & its inhabitants. To the MC. And to us. He is the epitome of what Oda believes good pirates should be.
In-story Rocks may no longer be remembered, and by EOS his name may forever be deleted. But Oda is telling us how he was important for what he tried to do. By his own charisma, he's put together a formidable group that's still influencing the OP world 40 years after his death. Rocks' unattained goal is still being echoed by BB and, in a more twisted way, by Dragon himself.
Every OP arc has been about an evil monarch having stolen the country from the rightful heirs, and Luffy righting the situation. IMU, Joy Boy, and the Void Century are this on a macro level. IMU is the evil king who must be dethroned. Roger and Rocks were both proto-Luffys trying to dethrone IMU in completely opposite ways. Both failed. Rocks used raw strength and a straight-forward assault. Roger tried using the truth left behind by JB, but fate wasn't on his side. Luffy will succeed by combining these two approaches.
They are the checkered fate of the D. clans. Roger and Rocks. Adventure and destruction. A D. who minds his path, but by doing so still becomes a menace for the WG; and the D. who openly opposes the WG in the most violent of ways. The true spirit of the story is the romance, the adventure, the want to discover, explore, learn. Rocks runs count to this. Rocks is the "conquering" part of piracy, including by mass exterminating those needing to be conquered.
Again, it's the same result. Adventuring around the entire world, only to at the end find out the truth about the WG, the true history, and the demons now in charge of everything and deciding to right this wrong is the same as going to Mariejois from the get-go and exterminating those in power and their servants. The means differ--and of course there's the whole issue of morality at play. But what Roger and Rocks wanted done is the same, just not the hows.
The Rocks Pirates were 10 psychopaths who decided to take everything they wanted by force. Roger potentially invited every psychopath in the world to sail to the very end and obtain a treasure able to give them control over the entire planet and fuck whomever stands in their way. Yes, Roger only said this in the hopes of inspiring the next little Rogers and Joy Boys, but that doesn't mean that the Blackbeards and Caribous didn't hear it and heed it as well. In the long run, it's Roger's words that will cause the greatest mayhem, and not Rocks' violation of the Geneva convention.
True, one can carry multiple wills at once, an entire people's will even. Luffy took to the sea after Roger's example and appears to share Roger's own, secret dream. But by following in the PK's steps, Luffy is fulfilling the will of the first pirate--Joy Boy--setting right the injustices carried against JB and his crew, and even going as far as unintentionally keeping JB's promise to the fishmen. This is all JB's path being followed by Roger first, then by Luffy, with Luffy alone being able to fully complete it, thus making him able to surpass the first PK.
Lastly, Roger may be the most important pirate (for now), but that doesn't mean Rocks couldn't have been more important (and dangerous) to the eyes of the WG than him. After all, currently in the OP universe the most dangerous man is not a pirate.
