Controversial General Political Discussion

Logiko

Logiko

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#52,041
#52,041
Mathias said:
What do you mean we’re all victims and so she is ? She snitched lmao. #FreeLuigi #LuigiCanHaveMyPussy
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I mean by that, that to understand the individual behavior inside a system, we need to understand the system itself.

Is snitching morally wrong in this case ? Yes.

Now, look at what is happening to her now. You need to understand that undercapitalism we are forced by the system to compete with eachothers and to eat eachothers.

While yes, we need to understand that we must prevent ourselves from hurting our own social cause, we also need to understand that those behavior are the results of the structure of society and we need to target the system and less the individual behaviors.

This murder is not the action of a mad man who targeted a man he considered a public danger. It's the action of an highly educated mind who considered that the US society was in a state of emergency and that to move and change this society, something needed to happen to a symbol of system. It was not a personnal affair.

It was someone attacking a symbol.

It's very possible (even if I'm not sure about that just yet) that this Luigi guy - through an horrific act - managed to awaken a LOT of american about class struggles and by extention, participated in saving the US from Techno-fascism.

We will know about that in a few years.
 
Brush D. Teeth

Brush D. Teeth

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#52,042
#52,042
Logiko said:
I mean by that, that to understand the individual behavior inside a system, we need to understand the system itself.

Is snitching morally wrong in this case ? Yes.

Now, look at what is happening to her now. You need to understand that undercapitalism we are forced by the system to compete with eachothers and to eat eachothers.

While yes, we need to understand that we must prevent ourselves from hurting our own social cause, we also need to understand that those behavior are the results of the structure of society and we need to target the system and less the individual behaviors.

This murder is not the action of a mad man who targeted a man he considered a public danger. It's the action of an highly educated mind who considered that the US society was in a state of emergency and that to move and change this society, something needed to happen to a symbol of system. It was not a personnal affair.

It was someone attacking a symbol.

It's very possible (even if I'm not sure about that just yet) that this Luigi guy - through an horrific act - managed to awaken a LOT of american about class struggles and by extention, participated in saving the US from Techno-fascism.

We will know about that in a few years.
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That doesn't mean that snitching was morally wrong.
Monkey D Theories said:
No the Supreme Court established that you have the right to be openly racist. Nazis hold public rallies all across America.

Im not exactly sure what are the legal implications of defining antisemitism the way Ohio has. But you can definitely still be an anti Zionist, even an antisemite.
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None of the articles I pulled up on this topic actually explained how the definition change would have legal implications.

It feels largely symbolic to me. I guess maybe you could be charged with a hate crime if you vandalize a Zionist institution.
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In actuality you basically can't. It's also ridiculous to adopt the definition from a zionist organization.
 
Bisoromi Bear

Bisoromi Bear

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#52,043
#52,043
Mathias said:
What do you think about Nancy Parker from Altoona in Pennsylvania ? :pepebusi:

@Logiko @NAMELESS @Uncle Van @AL sama @Blax Blah @Bisoromi Bear @Zenos7 @Monkey D Theories @Toby D. Dog @CoC: Color of Clowns @Brush D. Teeth @Rej
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https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-cul...luigi-mangione-reportedly-misses-reward-money
Parker may not be eligible to receive the incentive money that was previously offered for assistance in this case. The NYPD had pledged $10,000 for information that would lead to Mangione's arrest, while the FBI had announced a $50,000 reward. However, procedural problems make it unlikely that Nancy Parker will receive either of these sums.

Parker would have to be nominated by the relevant authorities to be eligible for the FBI's reward money, which hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, since only tips submitted through Crime Stoppers are eligible, she would have needed to get in touch with the tip line directly to claim the NYPD's reward. Therefore, she might not be eligible for either incentive, as she reportedly chose to call 911 instead.
:nikalaugh:
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Logiko said:
Under capitalism, we are all victims, only very few escape its horrors... And she is not one of them.
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*deep psychological manipulation
 
Logiko

Logiko

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#52,044
#52,044
Brush D. Teeth said:
That doesn't mean that snitching was morally wrong.
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It depends what moral you have. Moral is subjective.

The better question is, was snitching the guy ethical ? The question is... no.

Now, this doesn't mean that we must harrass this woman. She saw an opportunity to survive under capitalism, it was not ok, but this is something a LOT of people would do in the same situation. Because under capitalism, we don't always have the choice to make the best descision.
 
Brush D. Teeth

Brush D. Teeth

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#52,045
#52,045
Logiko said:
It depends what moral you have. Moral is subjective.

The better question is, was snitching the guy ethical ? The question is... no.

Now, this doesn't mean that we must harrass this woman. She saw an opportunity to survive under capitalism, it was not ok, but this is something a LOT of people would do in the same situation. Because under capitalism, we don't always have the choice to make the best descision.
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Yes it was ethical, taking responsibility for one's actions is ethical. The guy he killed was probably a horrible human being, but he is a murderer too.
 
Logiko

Logiko

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#52,046
#52,046
Brush D. Teeth said:
Yes it was ethical, taking responsibility for one's actions is ethical. The guy he killed was probably a horrible human being, but he is a murderer too.
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Ethics takes context into account, it's what differenciate ethics from moral.

In this case, judging the snitching of this guy based on an equation of the action of this guys with the one of average murderers is not ethical. It's logical under the current laws, but not ethical.

Especially when you take into account the fact that this actions comes in the context of the undangering of millions of people and the death of thousands indirectely caused by assurances compagnies's CEO and other Billionnaire but overall, in the context of a worldwide and urgent struggle against capitalism.

Should we kill ? No.

Should we jail someone who is trying to fight back with the only way possible and send a political message ? No.

You need to understand that justice is not here to add on punishment and jail is not here to apply justice but to separate dangerous people from the other and - theoretically - gave them time to understand their actions.

This is not what happens in reality. People don't learn from jail and jail do not help in rehabilitation and it does not help justice either.

On top of that, locking this person will never help anyone beside people in power. No one will be safer because he is locked away.

So in this case, jail or the death sentence are not used to apply justice or ethic, but to threatens the population not to take direct actions like this guy did.

Now.. I'm not sure this will work.
 
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NAMELESS

NAMELESS

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#52,048
#52,048
Uncle Van said:
The CEO of a health insurance company who is responsible for the deaths of thousands in the name of profit, was gunned down in the street. The incident caused other insurance companies like Blue Cross Blue Shiled to dial back on some of their predatory policies in fear of further retaliation.

I'd be a liar if I said I felt bad
:kayneshrug:
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You say that and yet you own tobacco stocks lmfao:gokulaugh:
 
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Brush D. Teeth

Brush D. Teeth

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#52,049
#52,049
Logiko said:
Ethics takes context into account, it's what differenciate ethics from moral.

In this case, judging the snitching of this guy based on an equation of the action of this guys with the one of average murderers is not ethical. It's logical under the current laws, but not ethical.

Especially when you take into account the fact that this actions comes in the context of the undangering of millions of people and the death of thousands indirectely caused by assurances compagnies's CEO and other Billionnaire but overall, in the context of a worldwide and urgent struggle against capitalism.

Should we kill ? No.

Should we jail someone who is trying to fight back with the only way possible and send a political message ? No.

You need to understand that justice is not here to add on punishment and jail is not here to apply justice but to separate dangerous people from the other and - theoretically - gave them time to understand their actions.

This is not what happens in reality. People don't learn from jail and jail do not help in rehabilitation and it does not help justice either.

On top of that, locking this person will never help anyone beside people in power. No one will be safer because he is locked away.

So in this case, jail or the death sentence are not used to apply justice or ethic, but to threatens the population not to take direct actions like this guy did.

Now.. I'm not sure this will work.
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I can basically sum up all your many words with "the ends justify the means", a sentence known for its deep ethics all over the world.
 
Blax Blah

Blax Blah

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#52,050
#52,050
Logiko said:
Indeed. But in this case, we do have one.

It's called socialism. Socialism that can take either the face of communism or anarchism, but we do have something to propose. Which is why the time to act, is now. Although when I say "act" I'm not saying revolution but a real massif street organization.



True
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I think the issue is that socialism without being prefigured is just an idea,

Edit: For example an anarchist critique of marxists who wanted to use the state to try to get communism, and of leninists who did do that, is that the state is inherently capitalist and reproduces capitalist social relations, and you can not get to communism by reproducing capitalism, capitalism appeared because capitalist social relations were prefigured until they overtook feudalism, not by reproducing feudal social relations,

Here is a writing about it named the state is counter revolutionary:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anark-the-state-is-counter-revolutionary.pdf

It talks about what the state is, the USSR, China, and left-wing authoritarianism,

And the reason the chapter about left-wing authoritarianism is called left-wing authoritarianism: an infantile disorder, is because Lenin wrote a book about the marxists who thought he was authoritarian and the anarchists who were anti-authority, called "left-wing communism: an infantile disorder",
 
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Blax Blah

Blax Blah

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#52,052
#52,052
https://apnews.com/article/amazon-workers-strike-teamsters-packages-39b86c286d67219e42309566f3975cba

December 21, 2024

"Amazon workers are striking at multiple facilities. Here’s what you should know"

"Amazon workers affiliated with the Teamsters union continued a strike Friday at seven of the company’s delivery hubs just days before Christmas.

At midnight on Saturday, workers at a prominent unionized warehouse in New York will also join, the Teamsters said. However, the union has not indicated how many employees were participating in any of the walkouts or when it will end.

The workers, who voted to authorize strikes in recent days, first joined picket lines on Thursday after Amazon ignored a Sunday deadline the union had set for contract negotiations. Meanwhile, workers at Starbucks stores said they were going on a five-day strike starting Friday to protest lack of progress in contract negotiations with the coffee company.

The e-commerce giant has a couple hundred employees at each delivery station and thousands at the New York City warehouse, which is known as JFK8 and located in the borough of Staten Island. A spokesperson for the company said Amazon did not expect the strike to impact holiday shipments.

The Teamsters mainly have focused on organizing delivery drivers, who work for contractors that handle package deliveries for the company. But Amazon has rebuffed demands to come to the negotiating table since it doesn’t consider the drivers to be its employees. "
 
Bisoromi Bear

Bisoromi Bear

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#52,053
#52,053
Blax Blah said:
https://apnews.com/article/amazon-workers-strike-teamsters-packages-39b86c286d67219e42309566f3975cba

December 21, 2024

"Amazon workers are striking at multiple facilities. Here’s what you should know"

"Amazon workers affiliated with the Teamsters union continued a strike Friday at seven of the company’s delivery hubs just days before Christmas.

At midnight on Saturday, workers at a prominent unionized warehouse in New York will also join, the Teamsters said. However, the union has not indicated how many employees were participating in any of the walkouts or when it will end.

The workers, who voted to authorize strikes in recent days, first joined picket lines on Thursday after Amazon ignored a Sunday deadline the union had set for contract negotiations. Meanwhile, workers at Starbucks stores said they were going on a five-day strike starting Friday to protest lack of progress in contract negotiations with the coffee company.

The e-commerce giant has a couple hundred employees at each delivery station and thousands at the New York City warehouse, which is known as JFK8 and located in the borough of Staten Island. A spokesperson for the company said Amazon did not expect the strike to impact holiday shipments.

The Teamsters mainly have focused on organizing delivery drivers, who work for contractors that handle package deliveries for the company. But Amazon has rebuffed demands to come to the negotiating table since it doesn’t consider the drivers to be its employees. "
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:holdw:
 
Zemmi

Zemmi

GodMommie
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#52,060
#52,060
Brush D. Teeth said:
Being a father doesn't make you a good person. Also same goes for him letting people die.
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I will say anyone who thinks that dude is a hero or someone to be looked up who shot that many really need some reflection.

I don't know the man who died, just like you don't know the man. So him being good or bad neither of us know. I just know he didn't deserve to be executed by a coward.
 
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