Controversial Could Elbuff be worser then Wano?
- Thread starter Konstantis
- Start date
Egghead premise and execution was much better than Wano
- Lucci vs Luffy
- Seraphim’s entrance
- Kuma flashback
- Saturn entrance
- Gorosei entrance
- Lucci and Kaku bromance
- Obvioulsy Kizzru greatness all over the board
- Saturn death, Garling intro and Saturn replacement
The real problem with Egghead is the pay off : Vagepunk being alive and cloned is stupid as fuck
Kuma being alive
Saturn and Gorosei were kinda clowned in the end
So the arc feels a bit off right now in retrospect
Wano was a 150+ arc and the end of whole Saga
And was lame from the beginning to its end
Wano was doomsday writing wise
- Lucci vs Luffy
- Seraphim’s entrance
- Kuma flashback
- Saturn entrance
- Gorosei entrance
- Lucci and Kaku bromance
- Obvioulsy Kizzru greatness all over the board
- Saturn death, Garling intro and Saturn replacement
The real problem with Egghead is the pay off : Vagepunk being alive and cloned is stupid as fuck
Kuma being alive
Saturn and Gorosei were kinda clowned in the end
So the arc feels a bit off right now in retrospect
Wano was a 150+ arc and the end of whole Saga
And was lame from the beginning to its end
Wano was doomsday writing wise
Chapter 1 of Elbaf was fine as well, I'm not talking about 1 chapter, I'm talking about all first chapters of Wano arc and Elbaf arc. For example in Wano from 910 to 923 it was basically fighting fodders filler chapters. In BigMom arc in 10 chapters we have met Pudding, saw Big Mom, get Germa 66 introduction and already was moving toward the main island. That was good pacing overall.
It's starting much stronger than Wano and those ridiculous smile fruits; aesthetics are quite good.
Kinda like Luffy though, peaceful giants are disappointing. Our introduction to Dory and Broggy were them fighting for 100 years. Come to Elbaph and they aren't real warriors anymore. Was hoping for tribes and constant war that they were fighting for fun - which we still might get with Loki - but it's split too easily into peaceful good guys atm.
Kinda like Luffy though, peaceful giants are disappointing. Our introduction to Dory and Broggy were them fighting for 100 years. Come to Elbaph and they aren't real warriors anymore. Was hoping for tribes and constant war that they were fighting for fun - which we still might get with Loki - but it's split too easily into peaceful good guys atm.
Luffy vs Lucci was a poorly executed fight where Luffy just straight up went G5 and rolled, only to be exhausted for hours later with Lucci getting up within a couple of minutes as if nothing happened.
Oda could've given us a more entertaining fight with Luffy using G2-G4, but with advanced conqueror's haki, and put down Lucci for good.
Using G5, but without advanced conqueror's haki, is straight up retarded.
But then there exists the problem - we don't know when advanced conqueror's haki is used, cause everything from basic armament to advanced conqueror's produces lightning
Seraphim are unskilled bums with no haki showings, carried purely by King's genes. Glorified punching bags for pretty much any competent fighters (commanders and above). Govt disbanded the shichibukai for these complete losers??
Honestly incredibly disappointing, but at least there exists the potential for future, so I'd be more forgiving...for now.
Not to mention, the way their command system works is inconsistent and plot driven. Sentomaru's orders got overriden by Lucci after he got taken out, inspite having lower authority. But then later Vegapunk mentioned that commands can be overriden only by the higher authority, so they were screwed even after taking out York and could only capture seraphim. PIS or retcon; poor execution either way.
Subjective on Kuma's flashback. If you enjoyed it, fine.
For me, Oda overplayed it and made it almost comical. I didn't enjoy it as much, it's just okay for me.
Saturn entrance was hype AF.
What happened afterwards tho....... reminds me of Mashima, has great ability to hype up characters, only to utterly fail in delivering on it.
Same for other Gorosei.
Honestly, they just got held back by plot, I'll go more over this later.
Lucci/Kaku thing was good to see.
Saturn death was cool to see too.
*************
Just to compare though.
Wano was great until the raid.
The amount of build up and everything leading to the raid was amazing writing. From rounding up rebellious samurai, to freeing prisoners, to uniting scabbards, building/tease of traitor amongst scabbards to reveal in the end, twist of Kin'emon being the only one fooled by the rebel moon sign, etc.
World building in Wano was amazing - with Yakuza, Kyoshiro, flashbacks showing shogun and daimyos, scabbards, Oden, Ryuma connections, lore of Wano as a lone unaffiliated country etc.
In retrospect, people can (rightfully) shit on wasting chapters and panels on "useless" stuff, but that fell flat only because the execution in Act 3 was dogshit.
Compare that to Dresrossa, which also had tons of side characters. Difference was that the panels occupied by the said side characters amounted to them having actual narratives and fights. So, the world building didn't feel like empty waste of time.
Even the intro of the raid was amazing. With the samurai sneaking in united, scabbards piercing Kaido and making him bleed (which at the time was insane), leading upto the yonkos vs supernova "roof piece". Looking back, that was one of the most hype times to read OP, maybe ever since Marineford.
But everything started falling apart after rooftop ended, with endless plot armour, Yamato nonsense, trash fights, abandoned plot points, death fakeouts, and chosen one bullshit.
*****
In contrast, Egghead was just disappointing straight from the beginning itself.
Vegapunk had zero resemblance with his silhoutte, and turned out to be a goofy clown. Subverted expectations I suppose.
Seraphims turned out to be glorified punching bags.
Luffy vs Lucci was a dud.
Luffy vs Kizaru was a poorly executed tom and jerry shitshow, with the usual clashes and stalling. Not a real fight at all, ending with a poorly executed desperate "draw" (I can elaborate on this if you want).
No to mention, the usual issues with haki visuals, leading to classic endless speculation on whether advanced conqueror's was used or not.
I will excuse the "Pizza diff" that happened later cause it's clear at this point that Kizaru completely gave up by this time.
Zoro vs Lucci was a nonsensical giga stall full of clashes, only to end in an instance the moment Zoro got more serious. Even though it was established that Zoro was in a hurry and couldn't waste, he somehow needed Sanji to trigger him and make him take the fight more serious, proceeded to destroy Lucci.
Poor way to keep Zoro out of the main plot.
Saturn came in strong, one shot a random marine with his eye, entrance with show of high level conqueror's haki that had the top fighters react to in awe. "Eye diff'd" Bonney, Sanji and Franky.
A true menace in intro, great so far.
What happened subsequently was such a humiliating performance that I cannot even describe well enough to do it justice. An absolute punching bag who non stop jobbed for the entire rest of the arc. Kuma -> Franky -> Sanji -> Luffy -> Brook -> weak trio -> Luffy & Bonney.
It isn't even that Saturn was weak, because it's established that he is quite powerful with his strong conqueror's haki, eye power/hax, powerful nukes. Why have him job to even mid trio and weak trio?? Just straight up nonsensical writing filled with massic plot armour and CIS.
Poor excuse of a buster call, where vice admirals kept getting one shot left and right. Even Bonney stomped them. Why give them kinda decent intros, only to no diff them indiscriminately?
At least have them be an obstacle to the mid trio and weak trio??
The piss poor execution of Saturn is applicable to other gorosei as well, though to a lesser extend since they weren't the main focus.
But, they came, and just was kinda there........did nothing but stand around or had staring contests, until plot demanded.
What did the Jupiter even do? It's clear that he is very powerful, and has insane attack power, given he destroyed Emeth (who was hyped for his durability) without any effort. But he initially went after Luffy, got chopped by D&B, regen in seconds and then did nothing.........??
Gandhi came in strong, covered half the island within seconds and neutered like a 100 pacifista (establishing high movement and attack speed), showed casual island splitting attack power and range. But managed to take down no vegapunks or fodder strawhats with this speed and range??
Mercury had good showing against Luffy, but later kinda did nothing. Maybe he was held back by Emeth, but all off screen, and honestly he shouldn't have taken that long when he had help from Jupiter too (esp given what we now know Jupiter is capable of).
Mars at least has an excuse, he was trying to find the source of broadcast for the most part, and was the less burdened by plot/CIS.
The entire execution was weird.
We had 6 top tier enemies in Egghead, and Loda managed to make them do nothing of value............ truly peak writing from Goda.
The gorosei grew a brain and decided to be competitive only right in time for Emeth to use "Joyboy haki" and send them back by deactivating the DF abilities that summoned them. While just dehyping Imu by having him sperg out to the haki (I hope it's a Kaido/Oden PTSD scenario, at least it'll excuse it somewhat cause Kaido was ultimately a bit stronger than Odan)
All the while G5 clownery ensured that any tension for the readers was completely destroyed, in what was narratively supposed to be a completely hopeless scenario for the good guys.
At least we got the memes of Luffy laughing like a maniac next to Vegapunks' corpse lmao.
And the arc ends with the satellites of Vegapunk just being reborn, and Lilith being treated as good as the OG Vegapunk. Apparently Kizaru was wrong in his conflicting emotions, cause they can all just be cloned lmao.
Just because there are some gems (like Kizzaru/Akainu interactions, Saturn intro, some raw Lucci panels, etc) found sprinkled in the garbage dump, doesn't make the dump not a garbage dump.
For me, Egghead killed my interest in the series.
I haven't read a chapter since the finale of Egghead. I just check spoilers occationally, see it's mid, and bounce at this point. Won't drop and will binge sometime eventually cause at this point I'd just want to see it through.
*********************
For me, Wano started out slow but great, had hype and great buildup, went good until rooftop.
It fell apart only since middle of the raid.
Egghead starts okay, but started showing cracks early itself, and completely fell apart from mid point onwards.
The only reason Wano vs Egghead is a debate for me, is because Wano was the culmination of the entire post TS, with tons of lost potential and worst ending.
While Egghead had less expectations, and was just mid-bad all throughout.
^^
How was this execution a 8/10?
Oda could've given us a more entertaining fight with Luffy using G2-G4, but with advanced conqueror's haki, and put down Lucci for good.
Using G5, but without advanced conqueror's haki, is straight up retarded.
But then there exists the problem - we don't know when advanced conqueror's haki is used, cause everything from basic armament to advanced conqueror's produces lightning
Seraphim are unskilled bums with no haki showings, carried purely by King's genes. Glorified punching bags for pretty much any competent fighters (commanders and above). Govt disbanded the shichibukai for these complete losers??
Honestly incredibly disappointing, but at least there exists the potential for future, so I'd be more forgiving...for now.
Not to mention, the way their command system works is inconsistent and plot driven. Sentomaru's orders got overriden by Lucci after he got taken out, inspite having lower authority. But then later Vegapunk mentioned that commands can be overriden only by the higher authority, so they were screwed even after taking out York and could only capture seraphim. PIS or retcon; poor execution either way.
Subjective on Kuma's flashback. If you enjoyed it, fine.
For me, Oda overplayed it and made it almost comical. I didn't enjoy it as much, it's just okay for me.
Saturn entrance was hype AF.
What happened afterwards tho....... reminds me of Mashima, has great ability to hype up characters, only to utterly fail in delivering on it.
Same for other Gorosei.
Honestly, they just got held back by plot, I'll go more over this later.
Lucci/Kaku thing was good to see.
Saturn death was cool to see too.
*************
Just to compare though.
Wano was great until the raid.
The amount of build up and everything leading to the raid was amazing writing. From rounding up rebellious samurai, to freeing prisoners, to uniting scabbards, building/tease of traitor amongst scabbards to reveal in the end, twist of Kin'emon being the only one fooled by the rebel moon sign, etc.
World building in Wano was amazing - with Yakuza, Kyoshiro, flashbacks showing shogun and daimyos, scabbards, Oden, Ryuma connections, lore of Wano as a lone unaffiliated country etc.
In retrospect, people can (rightfully) shit on wasting chapters and panels on "useless" stuff, but that fell flat only because the execution in Act 3 was dogshit.
Compare that to Dresrossa, which also had tons of side characters. Difference was that the panels occupied by the said side characters amounted to them having actual narratives and fights. So, the world building didn't feel like empty waste of time.
Even the intro of the raid was amazing. With the samurai sneaking in united, scabbards piercing Kaido and making him bleed (which at the time was insane), leading upto the yonkos vs supernova "roof piece". Looking back, that was one of the most hype times to read OP, maybe ever since Marineford.
But everything started falling apart after rooftop ended, with endless plot armour, Yamato nonsense, trash fights, abandoned plot points, death fakeouts, and chosen one bullshit.
*****
In contrast, Egghead was just disappointing straight from the beginning itself.
Vegapunk had zero resemblance with his silhoutte, and turned out to be a goofy clown. Subverted expectations I suppose.
Seraphims turned out to be glorified punching bags.
Luffy vs Lucci was a dud.
Luffy vs Kizaru was a poorly executed tom and jerry shitshow, with the usual clashes and stalling. Not a real fight at all, ending with a poorly executed desperate "draw" (I can elaborate on this if you want).
No to mention, the usual issues with haki visuals, leading to classic endless speculation on whether advanced conqueror's was used or not.
I will excuse the "Pizza diff" that happened later cause it's clear at this point that Kizaru completely gave up by this time.
Zoro vs Lucci was a nonsensical giga stall full of clashes, only to end in an instance the moment Zoro got more serious. Even though it was established that Zoro was in a hurry and couldn't waste, he somehow needed Sanji to trigger him and make him take the fight more serious, proceeded to destroy Lucci.
Poor way to keep Zoro out of the main plot.
Saturn came in strong, one shot a random marine with his eye, entrance with show of high level conqueror's haki that had the top fighters react to in awe. "Eye diff'd" Bonney, Sanji and Franky.
A true menace in intro, great so far.
What happened subsequently was such a humiliating performance that I cannot even describe well enough to do it justice. An absolute punching bag who non stop jobbed for the entire rest of the arc. Kuma -> Franky -> Sanji -> Luffy -> Brook -> weak trio -> Luffy & Bonney.
It isn't even that Saturn was weak, because it's established that he is quite powerful with his strong conqueror's haki, eye power/hax, powerful nukes. Why have him job to even mid trio and weak trio?? Just straight up nonsensical writing filled with massic plot armour and CIS.
Poor excuse of a buster call, where vice admirals kept getting one shot left and right. Even Bonney stomped them. Why give them kinda decent intros, only to no diff them indiscriminately?
At least have them be an obstacle to the mid trio and weak trio??
The piss poor execution of Saturn is applicable to other gorosei as well, though to a lesser extend since they weren't the main focus.
But, they came, and just was kinda there........did nothing but stand around or had staring contests, until plot demanded.
What did the Jupiter even do? It's clear that he is very powerful, and has insane attack power, given he destroyed Emeth (who was hyped for his durability) without any effort. But he initially went after Luffy, got chopped by D&B, regen in seconds and then did nothing.........??
Gandhi came in strong, covered half the island within seconds and neutered like a 100 pacifista (establishing high movement and attack speed), showed casual island splitting attack power and range. But managed to take down no vegapunks or fodder strawhats with this speed and range??
Mercury had good showing against Luffy, but later kinda did nothing. Maybe he was held back by Emeth, but all off screen, and honestly he shouldn't have taken that long when he had help from Jupiter too (esp given what we now know Jupiter is capable of).
Mars at least has an excuse, he was trying to find the source of broadcast for the most part, and was the less burdened by plot/CIS.
The entire execution was weird.
We had 6 top tier enemies in Egghead, and Loda managed to make them do nothing of value............ truly peak writing from Goda.
The gorosei grew a brain and decided to be competitive only right in time for Emeth to use "Joyboy haki" and send them back by deactivating the DF abilities that summoned them. While just dehyping Imu by having him sperg out to the haki (I hope it's a Kaido/Oden PTSD scenario, at least it'll excuse it somewhat cause Kaido was ultimately a bit stronger than Odan)
All the while G5 clownery ensured that any tension for the readers was completely destroyed, in what was narratively supposed to be a completely hopeless scenario for the good guys.
At least we got the memes of Luffy laughing like a maniac next to Vegapunks' corpse lmao.
And the arc ends with the satellites of Vegapunk just being reborn, and Lilith being treated as good as the OG Vegapunk. Apparently Kizaru was wrong in his conflicting emotions, cause they can all just be cloned lmao.
Just because there are some gems (like Kizzaru/Akainu interactions, Saturn intro, some raw Lucci panels, etc) found sprinkled in the garbage dump, doesn't make the dump not a garbage dump.
For me, Egghead killed my interest in the series.
I haven't read a chapter since the finale of Egghead. I just check spoilers occationally, see it's mid, and bounce at this point. Won't drop and will binge sometime eventually cause at this point I'd just want to see it through.
*********************
For me, Wano started out slow but great, had hype and great buildup, went good until rooftop.
It fell apart only since middle of the raid.
Egghead starts okay, but started showing cracks early itself, and completely fell apart from mid point onwards.
The only reason Wano vs Egghead is a debate for me, is because Wano was the culmination of the entire post TS, with tons of lost potential and worst ending.
While Egghead had less expectations, and was just mid-bad all throughout.
^^
How was this execution a 8/10?
even from a plot perspective its been bad
cheap emotional moments like saul being alive
slow pace, shs wasting time meeting another cast we dont care for
literally nothing interesting happening aside from Banks appearing.
Like compare this to DR, where we got an admiral, mera mera no mi, a colliseum and more in the first 10 chapters or so.
cheap emotional moments like saul being alive
slow pace, shs wasting time meeting another cast we dont care for
literally nothing interesting happening aside from Banks appearing.
Like compare this to DR, where we got an admiral, mera mera no mi, a colliseum and more in the first 10 chapters or so.
