Controversial General Political Discussion

[Germinator]

No my point is that it was the wrong and unethical tools.

I won't argue against this. I don't agree but we disagree on free will and justice, which punishment is concerned with.

Also, no, a criminal will not be changed by death penalty, they will be changed by many things. Again. You are confusing one tool with the influence of all the material conditions of existence of a criminal.

It is conceptually possible for a criminal to be changed solely due to the fear of punishment

But I agree that usually, even if change does occur after a criminal is threatened with the death penalty, it would be due to other factors in addition but not solely due to the death penalty

 

[NAMELESS]

Being angry is ok, as long as you canalize this anger correctly.

If after what you just told me, you follow by "leftism is the problem", then you are showing me that you do not canalize correctly your anger as you would literally fight those who are trying to change all of that.

BUT

If you tell me now that, yes, you do understand that in reality we are being played by a system called capitalism and their horsement of apocalypse that are Billionnaires.. then yes. This would be the right direction for your anger. Because this channeling would rely on real and documented evidence of oppression.


No my point is that it was the wrong and unethical tools.

Also, no, a criminal will not be changed by death penalty, they will be changed by many things. Again. You are confusing one tool with the influence of all the material conditions of existence of a criminal.

Change is possible, but not because of death penalty or punition, but because of an understanding that comes from outside of this system.

I think the bible contradicts the first half

Gentlemen, welcome to Fight Club. The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club! Third rule of Fight Club: someone yells "stop!", goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule: only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule: one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule: No shirts, no shoes. Seventh rule: fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

 

[Germinator]

obviously, no one said anything about humans not having superior intellect. lul

The kind of way they are "superior" is key

A superiority of degrees means humans and animals are fundamentally the same, a qualitative superiority would mean humans are fundamentally superior

 

[Blax Blah]

Gentlemen, welcome to Fight Club. The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club! Third rule of Fight Club: someone yells "stop!", goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule: only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule: one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule: No shirts, no shoes. Seventh rule: fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

"That's right! I'll be saving you from the past! Hasn't it always been like that?!"

● Joyboy

 

[Germinator]

For myself it is really a question about human value, if the life of a child lost is really no more a tragedy than a cockroach getting stepped on which is what Logiko's take entails @Zenos7 @NAMELESS

 

[NAMELESS]

"That's right! I'll be saving you from the past! Hasn't it always been like that?!"

● Joyboy

Fight Club should be a religion.

For myself it is really a question about human value, if the life of a child lost is really no more a tragedy than a cockroach getting stepped on which is what Logiko's take entails @Zenos7 @NAMELESS

I agree, but don't be surprised. There are people here that defend euthanasia. People don't value humans lives anymore.

 

[Germinator]

I agree, but don't be surprised. There are people here that defend euthanasia. People don't value humans lives anymore.

True

 

[Uncle Van]

Just sounds like Nihilism.

What type of nihilism? Lol. I believe most human values are just bullshit for the sake of convenience if that counts.

 

[Blax Blah]

What type of nihilism? Lol. I believe most human values are just bullshit for the sake of convenience if that counts.

What human values do you believe aren't for convenience?

 

[Logiko]

It is conceptually possible for a criminal to be changed solely due to the fear of punishment

No.

Fear can only be a trigger. It's not the reason for change. Change comes from the result of the ammassing of empathic and sociological understanding.

Fear alone will (at beast) push the criminal to rethink their action, but since they will have no way of contextualizing them outside of their own projection, they will be left with a lack of understanding if the penalty is applied.

What can happen on the other hand, is that said emotion stays beyond prison and create change when the prisonner is in contact with other people or other informations.

Death penalty is by defaut a problem, ethical and structural. Every good sociologist will tell you this. It does change or negate violence, it reproduces a system of violence and legitimize said system.

Death penalty is one of the weapon of capitalism to justify itself.

Gentlemen, welcome to Fight Club. The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club! Third rule of Fight Club: someone yells "stop!", goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule: only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule: one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule: No shirts, no shoes. Seventh rule: fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

You know, it's not because Blax doesn't believe in science that I do not respect him.

As long as I can see that he is channelling his faith to do good and to support positive politics, I'm okay to call him an ally.

For myself it is really a question about human value, if the life of a child lost is really no more a tragedy than a cockroach getting stepped on which is what Logiko's take entails @Zenos7 @NAMELESS

You do not understand what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that death or murders are not tragedy. I'm simply looking at reality and trying to show you why we must understand that those tragedy are the result of a material systemic conditionning and not the result of simple bad behaviors. You are depoliticizing those tragedies when I'm doing the opposite.

You rethoric is a defense of the status co in front of them.

Mine is a defense of the eradication of those tragedies. For a world where we do not fear injustice anymore.

Fight Club should be a religion.

You know that fight club is anti fascist and anti masculinist, right ?

 

[NAMELESS]

No.

Fear can only be a trigger. It's not the reason for change. Change comes from the result of the ammassing of empathic and sociological understanding.

Fear alone will (at beast) push the criminal to rethink their action, but since they will have no way of contextualizing them outside of their own projection, they will be left with a lack of understanding if the penalty is applied.

What can happen on the other hand, is that said emotion stays beyond prison and create change when the prisonner is in contact with other people or other informations.

Death penalty is by defaut a problem, ethical and structural. Every good sociologist will tell you this. It does change or negate violence, it reproduces a system of violence and legitimize said system.

Death penalty is one of the weapon of capitalism to justify itself.


You know, it's not because Blax doesn't believe in science that I do not respect him.

As long as I can see that he is channelling his faith to do good and to support positive politics, I'm okay to call him an ally.


You do not understand what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that death or murders are not tragedy. I'm simply looking at reality and trying to show you why we must understand that those tragedy are the result of a material systemic conditionning and not the result of simple bad behaviors. You are depoliticizing those tragedies when I'm doing the opposite.

You rethoric is a defense of the status co in front of them.

Mine is a defense of the eradication of those tragedies. For a world where we do not fear injustice anymore.


You know that fight club is anti fascist and anti masculinist, right ?

Fight club mocks everything, bro. It's a great movie.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Death penalty is one of the weapon of capitalism to justify itself.

Commies did executions too

 

[Logiko]

Fight club mocks everything, bro. It's a great movie.

You have so much to learn lol

Commies did executions too

Indeed. And communism as it was applied was only a twisted and authoritative extention of capitalism.

I'm picturing an entirely different system here

 

[NAMELESS]

You have so much to learn lol



Indeed. And communism as it was applied was only a twisted and authoritative extention of capitalism.

I'm picturing an entirely different system here

True, but so does everyone. Btw, you are in no position to preach to anyone about a perfect vision of life. Clean your bed before trying to save the world.

 

[Germinator]

ear can only be a trigger. It's not the reason for change. Change comes from the result of the ammassing of empathic and sociological understanding.

I'm making a conceptual argument. Yes lol it is possible for fear alone to prompt humans to act differently lmao

Maybe in some criminals it will require more than fear of punishment, I don't deny that or anything

I'm not saying that death or murders are not tragedy. I'm simply looking at reality and trying to show you why we must understand that those tragedy are the result of a material systemic conditionning and not the result of simple bad behaviors. You are depoliticizing those tragedies when I'm doing the opposite.

K

 

[NAMELESS]

Commies did executions too

*DO!

 

[Logiko]

True, but so does everyone. Btw, you are in no position to preach to anyone about a perfect vision of life. Clean your bed before trying to save the world.

I've done what I could with you.
Unless you start to listen to what I or people like me are saying, you will keep living in a fog of war, understanding just the tip of the iceberg of reality.

I hope it will not be too scary.

I'm making a conceptual argument. Yes lol it is possible for fear alone to prompt humans to act differently lmao

Acting differently and changing are two very different things.

Acting is just an action. A change means a transformation of behaviors that will lead to different form of actions.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Indeed. And communism as it was applied was only a twisted and authoritative extention of capitalism.

I'm picturing an entirely different system here

this is like the no true Scotsman fallacy

 

[Logiko]

this is like the no true Scotsman fallacy

Not in this case. In fact i'm not even saying that communism is better here.

I'm picturing a different system from communism a system that could even scare some anarchist.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Not in this case. In fact i'm not even saying that communism is better here.

I'm picturing a different system from communism a system that could even scare some anarchist.

You’re saying that every communist country wasn’t really communist