Controversial General Political Discussion

[NAMELESS]

And yet a utopia has never happened after millions of years and thousands of societies.

Logiko is a man of faith.

 

[Zenos7]

For as long as God wants.

 

[NAMELESS]

To be fair, the "evidence of possibility" always exist. Scientist never believe 100% in their theories. If they were to make percentages it can be very high and close to certainty but never 100%. That's how you get scientists saying they're not 100% sure vaccines do this or that. I mean the "evidence of possibility" kinda sounds like a problematic expression.

I guess that what Logiko is saying is that his utopia can exist while the thread is telling him that humanity never made it there. It's basically a travel problem lol.

"Lack of evidence, is not evidence for impossibility or inexistence "- Nameless, WorstGen Philosopher.

 

[Blax Blah]

And yet a utopia has never happened after millions of years and thousands of societies.

But only two main modes of production that are the same in taking value from the worker and giving it to people who own a thing, feudalism and cspitalism

 

[NAMELESS]

And yet a utopia has never happened after millions of years and thousands of societies.

Not true. The Garden of Eden was a perfect place.

 

[Blax Blah]

Thousands of societies of bosses who fought each other for the spoils of the value created by the workers, not thousands of different ways to organise society,
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Not true. The Garden of Eden was a perfect place.

Well I would say it was an objectively perfect place, but in practice it wasn't perfect because you weren't there and we weren't there, the new creation will be

 

[NAMELESS]

Thousands of societies of bosses who fought each other for the spoils of the value created by the workers,

Bro, pipe down on the class struggle. It's a retarded notion.

 

[Mathias]

"Lack of evidence, is not evidence for impossibility or inexistence "- Nameless, WorstGen Philosopher.

haha. I mean lots of people believe in the possibility of a form of outer space life. And excluding the possibility sounds like ignorance because it llterally is.

Not true. The Garden of Eden was a perfect place.

Armageddon >>>

 

[Blax Blah]

Bro, pipe down on the class struggle. It's a retarded notion.

Well I don't think using that word is good but what do you think about class struggle?

 

[NAMELESS]

Well I don't think using that word is good but what do you think about class struggle?

We already debated this, but here i go again. Envy. It is envy. Who do you think has more value: A retarded that has no skills or a man that accumulated enough wealth and created a factory where retards with no skills can be put to work? Most factory workers have no value whatsoever.
They literally do the most basic movements like pushing fucking buttons. People like this should feel privileged to earn money doing stupid things like pushing buttons all day. Robotics is going to make a bunch of human beings completely useless.

 

[Blax Blah]

We already debated this, but here i go again. Envy. It is envy. Who do you think has more value: A retarded that has no skills or a man that accumulated enough wealth and created a factory where retards with no skills can be put to work? Most factory workers have no value whatsoever.
They literally do the most basic movements like pushing fucking buttons. People like this should feel privileged to earn money doing stupid things like pushing buttons all day. Robotics is going to make a bunch of human beings completely useless.

But isn't the push of the button the action that in that context produces that value?
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And the person with wealth did not build a factory, they paid workers to build a factory

 

[Logiko]

"Oppressive, but not evil"-Illogiko,13/01/25

Yes. Words have meaning.

And yet a utopia has never happened after millions of years and thousands of societies.

You do realize that we are babies in front of our evolutions ? We started to understand basic physics yersterday.

We have seen absolutely nothing yet.

cool story bro, but i suspect most people would think a perfect society is a comforting idea lmao.

Look at this thread. Analyze the reactions. And - beside blax and me - show me anyone with a glimps of utopic hope here.

Then tell me if you think if people are really conforted by the idea of utopia.

Logiko is a man of faith.

Yes, in a way.

Faith in the potential of civilizations.

We already debated this, but here i go again. Envy. It is envy. Who do you think has more value: A retarded that has no skills or a man that accumulated enough wealth and created a factory where retards with no skills can be put to work? Most factory workers have no value whatsoever.

Reply to me: Do you think homeless people are "retarded people with no skills" that do not deserve any wealth ?

 

[Blax Blah]

The idea is that capital owners, in the context of the market relations, only offer capital, and workers only offer work
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The owning class that owns and does not work, and thw working class that works but does not own, in the context of a world where the means of production are private,

 

[NAMELESS]

But isn't the push of the button the action that in that context produces that value?
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And the person with wealth did not build a factory, they paid workers to build a factory

Are you kidding me now? Anyone with fingers can push a button. Apes have been trained to do so. The harder the skill, the rarer and thus more expensive it is. Factory workers get minimum wage CAUSE ANYONE CAN DO THOSE JOBS. Bro, don't pull a tongue on cheek argument here. Your argument about who built shit says you are not entitled to your bread since you didn't bake it, you only paid for it. Don't go to C4N levels of stupidity. People on civil construction get a decent pay, btw. My dad and mom are engineers, there are some guys that work under my father that have more wealth than him.
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Yes. Words have meaning.



You do realize that we are babies in front of our evolutions ? We started to understand basic physics yersterday.

We have seen absolutely nothing yet.



Look at this thread. Analyze the reactions. And - beside blax and me - show me anyone with a glimps of utopic hope here.

Then tell me if you think if people are really conforted by the idea of utopia.



Yes, in a way.

Faith in the potential of civilizations.


Reply to me: Do you think homeless people are "retarded people with no skills" that do not deserve any wealth ?

Nobody is entitled to anybodies property. You help homeless people out of charity. Most of those are mentally ill or suffering from drug addiction.

 

[Blax Blah]

Are you kidding me now? Anyone with fingers can push a button. Apes have been trained to do so. The harder the skill, the rarer and thus more expensive it is. Factory workers get minimum wage CAUSE ANYONE CAN DO THOSE JOBS. Bro, don't pull a tongue on cheek argument here. Your argument about who built shit says you are not entitled to your bread since you didn't bake it, you only paid for it. Don't go the C4N levels of stupidity. People on civil construction get a decent pay, btw. My dad and mom are engineers, that are some guys that work under my father that have more wealth than him.

I'm very happy they get to live well

And about whether the skill is hard or not, some skills are harder, some are easier, but either way the work done in the factory is what produces the value isn't it? Since if no work gets done no value gets produced,

 

[NAMELESS]

The idea is that capital owners, in the context of the market relations, only offer capital, and workers only offer work
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The owning class that owns and does not work, and thw working class that works but does not own, in the context of a world where the means of production are private,

and??? You think first the wealthy man ever didn't have to work? Most millionaires are elderly people that accumulated money. You speak as if work is exploitation. You just pulled a fallacy here. Millionaires and Billionaires are usually workaholic and self made men. Do you have any idea how much brain power it takes to plan and administer a big enterprise? Most people that have a lot of money and don't work are people that suck on tax payers money(politicians,public servants,military widows and so on...). Most left wing people just don't like working at all and envy people that are wealthy, all the ideological gymnastics is to justify property theft. Leftism is the ideology of envy.

 

[Logiko]

Nobody is entitled to anybodies property. You help homeless people out of charity. Most of those are mentally ill or suffering from drug addiction.

And how do you think people end up with mental afflictions and or drug addictions ? Don't worry, I'm sure you will understand soon enough...

Don't make me wait too much tho, I'm already dead yohohoho

 

[Uncle Van]

Not true. The Garden of Eden was a perfect place.

The humans fucked up. And then Cain commited the first murder and got married to a mystery bitch.

To be fair, the "evidence of possibility" always exist. Scientist never believe 100% in their theories. If they were to make percentages it can be very high and close to certainty but never 100%. That's how you get scientists saying they're not 100% sure vaccines do this or that. I mean the "evidence of possibility" kinda sounds like a problematic expression.

I guess that what Logiko is saying is that his utopia can exist while the thread is telling him that humanity never made it there. It's basically a travel problem lol.

It's idealism vs realism. He's spitting hope and blind faith without any evidence, and evidence says a utopia is impossible.

 

[NAMELESS]

I'm very happy they get to live well

And about whether the skill is hard or not, some skills are harder, some are easier, but either way the work done in the factory is what produces the value isn't it? Since if no work gets done no value gets produced,

It's the infrastructure, the raw materials, the planning of the business models and the sweat of workers. All of those require money and brain from a wealthy man. This idea that rich people are leeches is a fallacy.

 

[Blax Blah]

and??? You first the wealthy man ever didn't have to work? Most millionaires are elderly people that accumulated money. You speak as if work is exploitation. You just pulled a fallacy here. Millionaires and Billionaires are usually workaholic and self made men. Do you have any idea how much brain power it takes to plan and administer a big enterprise? Most people that have a lot of money and don't work are people that suck on tax payers money(politicians,public servants,military widows and so on...). Most left wing people just don't like working at all and envy people that are wealthy, all the ideological gymnastics is to justify property theft. Leftism is the ideology of envy.

Well if society became worker coops would you dislike that?