Controversial General Political Discussion
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The true definition of World Peace was human extinction all along
Haven't been following the news too tightly, I saw an article stating Zelensky said he'd be willing to talk directly to Putin for peace talks etc
But stealing resources might get easier once Ukraine is in the EU.
You really want to be part of that club, huh?
This is how the modern state of Israel was started in the first place. The goal was to keep Jews out of Europe, Holocaust was only the second best solution according to the Nazis
Haven't been following the news too tightly, I saw an article stating Zelensky said he'd be willing to talk directly to Putin for peace talks etc
But stealing resources might get easier once Ukraine is in the EU.
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You really want to be part of that club, huh?
This is how the modern state of Israel was started in the first place. The goal was to keep Jews out of Europe, Holocaust was only the second best solution according to the Nazis
I think it’s fine to boycott Israel.
But BDS does want to dismantle the state of Israel. They aren’t honest about it and tend to dance around the issue. But that is the end result of the issues they champion.
Like yes
But understand that anti-Zionists are a very small minority of the Jewish world. Especially in Israel.
The Israeli people ultimately want the state of Israel to exist. Which is why anti-Zionism as a whole is impractical. It seeks to force a solution onto the Israelis. It’s why antizionist orgs either 1) are literal terrorist groups(Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.) or 2) are functionally irrelevant in the US or Israel(BDS)
But BDS does want to dismantle the state of Israel. They aren’t honest about it and tend to dance around the issue. But that is the end result of the issues they champion.
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Like yes
But understand that anti-Zionists are a very small minority of the Jewish world. Especially in Israel.
The Israeli people ultimately want the state of Israel to exist. Which is why anti-Zionism as a whole is impractical. It seeks to force a solution onto the Israelis. It’s why antizionist orgs either 1) are literal terrorist groups(Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.) or 2) are functionally irrelevant in the US or Israel(BDS)
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I would rather call Israel a pre-fascist society. The current vector points toward fascism, not toward liberalism. (same for the US in fact)
On a scale from 1 to 10 from liberalism to fascism:
- Canada would be around 4
- France at 5.5/6
- US at 8.5/9
- Israel at 9.99
All of them are directed toward more authoritarism. Very few countries are preventing this tendancy
On a scale from 1 to 10 from liberalism to fascism:
- Canada would be around 4
- France at 5.5/6
- US at 8.5/9
- Israel at 9.99
All of them are directed toward more authoritarism. Very few countries are preventing this tendancy
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This concept implies a form of transition. A vector toward less fascism and more liberalism (hence why it's post and not pre).
The problem with our societies (and especially with Israel) is that it is the opposite. Yes it's indeed a democracy that function with fascism, but with more and more of it.
The vector is pointing toward fascism which means that if nothing is done, our world will not be democratic anymore, but straight up fascist.
I think we can say that the direction of this vector changed drastically toward fascism around 24 years ago, after 9/11. What we have today is the result of two decades of added authoritarism, especially in the case of Israel.
The problem with our societies (and especially with Israel) is that it is the opposite. Yes it's indeed a democracy that function with fascism, but with more and more of it.
The vector is pointing toward fascism which means that if nothing is done, our world will not be democratic anymore, but straight up fascist.
I think we can say that the direction of this vector changed drastically toward fascism around 24 years ago, after 9/11. What we have today is the result of two decades of added authoritarism, especially in the case of Israel.
This is from an 1886 letter from Engels to Bebel, I think it's pretty interesting
"
In the meantime unemployment was increasing more and more. The collapse of England's monopoly on the world market has caused the crisis to continue unbroken since 1878 and to get worse rather than better. The distress, especially in the East End of the city, is appalling. The exceptionally hard winter, since January, added to the boundless indifference of the possessing classes, produced a considerable movement among the unemployed masses. As usual, political wirepullers tried to exploit this movement for their own ends. The Conservatives, who had just been superseded in the Government, put the responsibility for unemployment on to foreign competition (rightly) and foreign tariffs (for the most part wrongly) and preached "fair-trade," i.e., retaliatory tariffs. A workers' organisation also exists which believes mainly in retaliatory tariffs. This organisation summoned the meeting in Trafalgar Square on February 8. In the meantime the S.D.F. had not been idle either, had already held some small demonstrations and now wanted to utilise this meeting. Two meetings accordingly took place; the "fair traders" were round the Nelson Column while the S.D.F. people spoke at the north end of the Square, from the street opposite the National Gallery, which is about 25 feet above the square. Kautsky, who was there and went away before the row began, told me that the mass of the real workers had been around the "fair traders," whilst Hyndman and Co. had a mixed audience of people looking for a lark, some of them already merry. If Kautsky, who has hardly been here a year, noticed this, the gentlemen of the Federation must have seen it still more clearly. Nevertheless, when everybody already seemed to be scattering, they proceeded to carry out a favourite old idea of Hyndman's, namely a procession of "unemployed" through Pall Mall, the street of the big political, aristocratic and high-capitalist clubs, the centres of English political intrigue. The employed who followed them in order to hold a fresh meeting in Hyde Park, were mostly the types who do not want work anyhow, hawkers, loafers, police spies, pickpockets. When the aristocrats at the club windows sneered at them they broke the said windows, ditto the shop windows; they looted the wine dealers' shops and immediately set up a consumers' association for the contents in the street, so that in Hyde Park Hyndman and Co. had hastily to pocket their blood-thirsty phrases and go in for pacification. But the thing had now got going. During the procession, during this second little meeting and afterwards, the masses of the Lumpenproletariat, whom Hyndman had taken for the unemployed, streamed through some fashionable streets nearby, looted jewellers' and other shops, used the loaves and legs of mutton which they had looted solely to break windows with, and dispersed without meeting with any resistance. Only a remnant of them were broken up in Oxford Street by four, say four, policemen.
Otherwise the police were nowhere to be seen and their absence was so marked that we were not alone in being compelled to think it intentional. The chiefs of the police seem to be Conservatives who had no objection to seeing a bit of a row in this period of Liberal Government. However the Government at once set up a Commission of Inquiry and it may cost more than one of these gentlemen his job."
"
In the meantime unemployment was increasing more and more. The collapse of England's monopoly on the world market has caused the crisis to continue unbroken since 1878 and to get worse rather than better. The distress, especially in the East End of the city, is appalling. The exceptionally hard winter, since January, added to the boundless indifference of the possessing classes, produced a considerable movement among the unemployed masses. As usual, political wirepullers tried to exploit this movement for their own ends. The Conservatives, who had just been superseded in the Government, put the responsibility for unemployment on to foreign competition (rightly) and foreign tariffs (for the most part wrongly) and preached "fair-trade," i.e., retaliatory tariffs. A workers' organisation also exists which believes mainly in retaliatory tariffs. This organisation summoned the meeting in Trafalgar Square on February 8. In the meantime the S.D.F. had not been idle either, had already held some small demonstrations and now wanted to utilise this meeting. Two meetings accordingly took place; the "fair traders" were round the Nelson Column while the S.D.F. people spoke at the north end of the Square, from the street opposite the National Gallery, which is about 25 feet above the square. Kautsky, who was there and went away before the row began, told me that the mass of the real workers had been around the "fair traders," whilst Hyndman and Co. had a mixed audience of people looking for a lark, some of them already merry. If Kautsky, who has hardly been here a year, noticed this, the gentlemen of the Federation must have seen it still more clearly. Nevertheless, when everybody already seemed to be scattering, they proceeded to carry out a favourite old idea of Hyndman's, namely a procession of "unemployed" through Pall Mall, the street of the big political, aristocratic and high-capitalist clubs, the centres of English political intrigue. The employed who followed them in order to hold a fresh meeting in Hyde Park, were mostly the types who do not want work anyhow, hawkers, loafers, police spies, pickpockets. When the aristocrats at the club windows sneered at them they broke the said windows, ditto the shop windows; they looted the wine dealers' shops and immediately set up a consumers' association for the contents in the street, so that in Hyde Park Hyndman and Co. had hastily to pocket their blood-thirsty phrases and go in for pacification. But the thing had now got going. During the procession, during this second little meeting and afterwards, the masses of the Lumpenproletariat, whom Hyndman had taken for the unemployed, streamed through some fashionable streets nearby, looted jewellers' and other shops, used the loaves and legs of mutton which they had looted solely to break windows with, and dispersed without meeting with any resistance. Only a remnant of them were broken up in Oxford Street by four, say four, policemen.
Otherwise the police were nowhere to be seen and their absence was so marked that we were not alone in being compelled to think it intentional. The chiefs of the police seem to be Conservatives who had no objection to seeing a bit of a row in this period of Liberal Government. However the Government at once set up a Commission of Inquiry and it may cost more than one of these gentlemen his job."
Yes totally. I agree with that, they understand that they can use democracy to create authoritarism.
But what they do not understand (for most, some are really aware) is how fast they can create real fascism through their attacks on democracy and how uncontrable it can become fast.
The real danger are those attacks. At first they are small (like in France), then they are bigger (like in US currently), and just after that, they are almost indiscernible from fascist politics (Israel). What is left to do is a simple authoritarian push (for exemple if Israel starts to turn on its inhabitants) and it's over, it will be a new form of real fascism.
The big problem is that rightist do not understand that their politics pushes society toward fascism. So when they realize that, it's too late. This is what happened in France and this is the reason why later we created counter power to prevent attacks on the constitution or the state of law (which are targeted by people like Zemmour or Musk).
Fascism is not some artefact that appears out of nowhere because a lot of people are becoming authoritarians. It's a fundamental component of conservatism and it's logical result when it is not prevented in a capitalistic society.
Fascism is like a fire in a small woody appartment. It spreads fast without control.
The key here is the direction of the vector. Are we heading toward more progressism or toward more fascism.. Sadly. The more time passes, the more our societies are choosing to turn their back on the prevention of conservatism without even being aware of it.
Which is bringing us, logically all toward global fascism. What happened with Fascist and Nazis during the WWII might have just been just a introduction to the danger that we might have to face.
But what they do not understand (for most, some are really aware) is how fast they can create real fascism through their attacks on democracy and how uncontrable it can become fast.
The real danger are those attacks. At first they are small (like in France), then they are bigger (like in US currently), and just after that, they are almost indiscernible from fascist politics (Israel). What is left to do is a simple authoritarian push (for exemple if Israel starts to turn on its inhabitants) and it's over, it will be a new form of real fascism.
The big problem is that rightist do not understand that their politics pushes society toward fascism. So when they realize that, it's too late. This is what happened in France and this is the reason why later we created counter power to prevent attacks on the constitution or the state of law (which are targeted by people like Zemmour or Musk).
Fascism is not some artefact that appears out of nowhere because a lot of people are becoming authoritarians. It's a fundamental component of conservatism and it's logical result when it is not prevented in a capitalistic society.
Fascism is like a fire in a small woody appartment. It spreads fast without control.
The key here is the direction of the vector. Are we heading toward more progressism or toward more fascism.. Sadly. The more time passes, the more our societies are choosing to turn their back on the prevention of conservatism without even being aware of it.
Which is bringing us, logically all toward global fascism. What happened with Fascist and Nazis during the WWII might have just been just a introduction to the danger that we might have to face.