Powers & Abilities God's Knights and Gorosei make no sense
- Thread starter trav
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This tells you everything
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...rs-of-the-marines-yonko-and-shichibukai.4234/
People gotta stop butchering something so easy to understand because it doesn't fit their power scaling. The 3 Admirals were blatantly called the most powerful force of the WG. 3 Admirals>5 Gorosei. 3 Admirals>all holy knights.
Marine HQ can't be left unprotected. Marijoies can't be left unprotected. Resources must be managed. Power vaccums are a thing. Criminals are all over the world with unknown threats lingering. Etc, etc.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...rs-of-the-marines-yonko-and-shichibukai.4234/
People gotta stop butchering something so easy to understand because it doesn't fit their power scaling. The 3 Admirals were blatantly called the most powerful force of the WG. 3 Admirals>5 Gorosei. 3 Admirals>all holy knights.
Marine HQ can't be left unprotected. Marijoies can't be left unprotected. Resources must be managed. Power vaccums are a thing. Criminals are all over the world with unknown threats lingering. Etc, etc.
The reason why the World Government, the Marines, and the Celestial Dragons didn't demolish every potential threat like the Straw Hats and the Revolutionaries with as much rigorous and cutthroat efficiency as they did when they hunted after Ace as a fucking baby and his mother is because Imu, the Gorosei, and the God Knights were retconned into existence and/or given abilities they didn't have initially.
Prior to these revelation that the underbelly of the World Government had such formidable forces, it made somewhat of sense why the Admirals and the Marines were a necessary branch of the World Government and why they couldn't simply remove their opposition. Now it's rather clear thst the Matines are simply the cherry on top of the WG armada sundae, and it just makes the World Government's decisions when it comes to handling opposition absolutely idiotic. If they operated the Straw Hat Nika situation just as how they did with Baby Ace and Kid Robin, the Straw Hats would be absolutely dead, and there would be no story.
Prior to these revelation that the underbelly of the World Government had such formidable forces, it made somewhat of sense why the Admirals and the Marines were a necessary branch of the World Government and why they couldn't simply remove their opposition. Now it's rather clear thst the Matines are simply the cherry on top of the WG armada sundae, and it just makes the World Government's decisions when it comes to handling opposition absolutely idiotic. If they operated the Straw Hat Nika situation just as how they did with Baby Ace and Kid Robin, the Straw Hats would be absolutely dead, and there would be no story.
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It´s just arbitrary. Realistically, empires shouldn´t last that long, and the WG doesn´t make up for it with competence or anything at all, getting outplayed by characters like Doffy and Croco.
Obviously it´s just a childrens comic so there´s no need to overthink it, but he ruined the worldbuilding by making the WG wipe out a country every 3 years,after hundreds of years, we could even say they wiped our potentially over a thousand countries, with like no backlash....
Obviously it´s just a childrens comic so there´s no need to overthink it, but he ruined the worldbuilding by making the WG wipe out a country every 3 years,after hundreds of years, we could even say they wiped our potentially over a thousand countries, with like no backlash....
I think if I was an immortal living a life of absolute power and luxury I’d sent grunts out to do my dirty work for me as well to be fair.
They’ve ruled for centuries. It’s no wonder they got a tad complacent. Pirates are basically a minor annoyance that don’t even effect the majority of Celestial Dragons. Marines are just there to ensure the taxes keep coming in, to be the public imagery to the peasantry and to do the actual work so the CD’s can enjoy their hedonism.
The CD’s don’t really care if Big Mom has a bunch of islands under her control. Doesn’t change their lives of luxury at all. And keeps a Road Poneglyph away.
Yes, Imu and the Gorosei could have methodically went from island to island systematically conquering and enslaving their way to a reign of absolute world domination and terror. No one could stop that, due to the whole immortal demons thing. That’s just not really tonally consistent with the fun pirate adventure story that One Piece broadly is, despite its dives into darker themes.
They’ve ruled for centuries. It’s no wonder they got a tad complacent. Pirates are basically a minor annoyance that don’t even effect the majority of Celestial Dragons. Marines are just there to ensure the taxes keep coming in, to be the public imagery to the peasantry and to do the actual work so the CD’s can enjoy their hedonism.
The CD’s don’t really care if Big Mom has a bunch of islands under her control. Doesn’t change their lives of luxury at all. And keeps a Road Poneglyph away.
Yes, Imu and the Gorosei could have methodically went from island to island systematically conquering and enslaving their way to a reign of absolute world domination and terror. No one could stop that, due to the whole immortal demons thing. That’s just not really tonally consistent with the fun pirate adventure story that One Piece broadly is, despite its dives into darker themes.
Since you especially stupid and can't understand the theme of the Navy's order versus the chaos of piracy, I'll simply have ChatGPT explain this to you:
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In One Piece, the Navy is largely kept loyal to the World Government through a combination of structure, discipline, and ideological alignment. Here are the main factors that prevent the Navy from turning on the World Government:
In summary, a combination of military discipline, ideological commitment, control by the Celestial Dragons, personal interests, and the threat of violent repercussions keeps the Navy loyal to the World Government.
---
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In One Piece, the Navy is largely kept loyal to the World Government through a combination of structure, discipline, and ideological alignment. Here are the main factors that prevent the Navy from turning on the World Government:
- Chain of Command and Discipline: The Navy is a military organization with a strict hierarchy, and its officers are trained to follow orders. The fear of punishment for insubordination or betrayal keeps most members in line, with higher-ranking officers such as Admirals and Fleet Admirals ensuring loyalty.
- Ideological Alignment: Many in the Navy, especially the lower ranks, genuinely believe in the World Government’s cause of maintaining "order" and "justice," even if it’s often morally gray. The concept of "Absolute Justice" (the idea that the Navy must enforce the law at all costs) is ingrained in many of the Navy’s members, causing them to believe they are acting for the greater good, even when their actions are questionable.
- Control by the Celestial Dragons: The Celestial Dragons hold significant influence over the World Government, and their power often extends into the Navy. They have control over the world’s highest levels of authority, including the Navy's leadership, through their vast wealth and connections. This keeps the Navy in check, as defying the World Government can result in severe consequences.
- Corruption and Compromise: Some members of the Navy, especially higher-ranking officers, might be more concerned with preserving their status and power rather than questioning the government's actions. This leads to compromises, where the Navy turns a blind eye to certain injustices to protect their position within the World Government’s structure.
- The Threat of Repercussions: Any attempt to overthrow or defy the World Government would not go unpunished. The Navy has access to enormous resources, and the World Government has vast means of retribution (e.g., the Marines can destroy entire islands or imprison high-ranking officers). The risk of destruction or death is a significant deterrent.
- The Role of the Revolutionary Army: While the Revolutionary Army opposes the World Government, they have not directly targeted the Navy in a full-scale way. This provides the Navy with a kind of "status quo" where they maintain their role as a force for "peace" under the World Government's command, despite the contradictions in their actions.
In summary, a combination of military discipline, ideological commitment, control by the Celestial Dragons, personal interests, and the threat of violent repercussions keeps the Navy loyal to the World Government.
---
Unbelievable. 
Call it plot if you want, but I feel it is undeniable that they COULD end both threats if they so chose. Even with the rebellion where they dont know they headquarters, they cant feel THAT pressed since any and all of the revos take overs are not exactly hidden. If Imu teleported them to the nations that the revos are currently trying to make/help rise up?
Its lights out. The WG clearly in my mind is just understimating the threat of the Revos since they probably saw several similar ones that amounted to nothing.
Like, people always try this shit where they attempt to go "lol, WG so stupid and weak for not solving any and all of their problems" well the same shit applies in reverse.
What, are the WG so weak to deal with even a SINGLE Yonko if they tried? Is that what we are doing here? Then why did Kaido sit on his ass on Wano for two decades instead of flying up to the Holy Land and taking over?
Why did Big Mom do nothing but grow fat and lazy and kill some rookie pirates instead of trying to become Queen of the world?
Every time somebody tries to discredit the World Govenrment and or Imu, people ought to recall THEY are the people in charge of the world. Nobody else even gets Imu out of their damn chair but the butterflies and Joyboy.
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You mean like the one that defected and the other one that disobeys orders?
Dragon defected as well, but he may not have been an Admiral.
Be honest, did you finish highschool?
The Gorosei? That is not important. Gorosei and GKs are both CDs as well. They all have a vested interest to act like Imu wishes already.
Akainu is different. He is blindly obedient. You are right though. The whole power structure existed for way longer.
Nobody said that they want to. That is not really important nor is it the topic. Most people in the real world military do not want to overthrow the government. There are still systems in place that try to prevent them from even attempting it. Even then it sometimes does not work out and you end up with a military coup.
Unless the WG has a certain way to control the Marins then what exactly is holding them back other than blind believe?
It does not necessarily need to be raw power. And I very much doubt that it is. Admirals may still be the main fighting force of the WG.
Then again, if you have such power under you with no means to control it then you are setting yourself up for failure.
tl;dr
2 options
1. If the Admirals (or the Marines in general) are stronger than the Gorosei and GKs, how does the WG make sure that the Marines do what they are told to, even if it entails the genocide of obviously innocent people?
2. If the Admirals (or the Marines in general) are weaker than than the Gorosei and GKs, how does the WG not utterly crush any pirate or other group (like the revos) that could potentially pose a thread?
Keep in mind that Shamrock apparently injured WB. Stands to reason if the other GKs are also strong.
We also saw how Luffy struggled vs the Gorosei. This may be irrelevant since a single haki blast sent them home so I treat that more like a gimmick for now and not a real measurement of the strength.
bonus
The Gorosei said that Wano can not be entered and they let other islands like Elbaph exist for 800 years. Now all of a sudden the GKs enter the Elbaph kingdom as they please. Why now? Why not all this time before? If they could...
You guys take offense so easily its near impossible to have a normal discussion.
If you are sure that the Admirals are stronger than the Gorosei and GKs then explain how the WG is making sure that the Marines do not take control, especially the higher ups that are aware on ongoing genocides and breach of human rights. Not everyone in the Marines is as overzealous as Greenbull and Akainu.
Admirals are not called the highest power. The wording is different. There is no confirmation that they are the strongest force inside the WG. Not yet anyways.
Most Marines, and by that logic the world, do not know of the Goroseis powers. The lower ranking Marines on EH had to be told not to look at Saturn. Not because they were not allowed to see him in this form, but because they do not have a clue how his powers work. Which means that they have no or next to no prior knowledge of the Goroseis powers.
I also still believe that the Admirals are the main fighting force of the WG. That is not the point though.
Dragon defected as well, but he may not have been an Admiral.
Be honest, did you finish highschool?
The Gorosei? That is not important. Gorosei and GKs are both CDs as well. They all have a vested interest to act like Imu wishes already.
Akainu is different. He is blindly obedient. You are right though. The whole power structure existed for way longer.
Nobody said that they want to. That is not really important nor is it the topic. Most people in the real world military do not want to overthrow the government. There are still systems in place that try to prevent them from even attempting it. Even then it sometimes does not work out and you end up with a military coup.
Unless the WG has a certain way to control the Marins then what exactly is holding them back other than blind believe?
It does not necessarily need to be raw power. And I very much doubt that it is. Admirals may still be the main fighting force of the WG.
Then again, if you have such power under you with no means to control it then you are setting yourself up for failure.
tl;dr
2 options
1. If the Admirals (or the Marines in general) are stronger than the Gorosei and GKs, how does the WG make sure that the Marines do what they are told to, even if it entails the genocide of obviously innocent people?
2. If the Admirals (or the Marines in general) are weaker than than the Gorosei and GKs, how does the WG not utterly crush any pirate or other group (like the revos) that could potentially pose a thread?
Keep in mind that Shamrock apparently injured WB. Stands to reason if the other GKs are also strong.
We also saw how Luffy struggled vs the Gorosei. This may be irrelevant since a single haki blast sent them home so I treat that more like a gimmick for now and not a real measurement of the strength.
bonus
The Gorosei said that Wano can not be entered and they let other islands like Elbaph exist for 800 years. Now all of a sudden the GKs enter the Elbaph kingdom as they please. Why now? Why not all this time before? If they could...
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You guys take offense so easily its near impossible to have a normal discussion.
If you are sure that the Admirals are stronger than the Gorosei and GKs then explain how the WG is making sure that the Marines do not take control, especially the higher ups that are aware on ongoing genocides and breach of human rights. Not everyone in the Marines is as overzealous as Greenbull and Akainu.
Admirals are not called the highest power. The wording is different. There is no confirmation that they are the strongest force inside the WG. Not yet anyways.
Most Marines, and by that logic the world, do not know of the Goroseis powers. The lower ranking Marines on EH had to be told not to look at Saturn. Not because they were not allowed to see him in this form, but because they do not have a clue how his powers work. Which means that they have no or next to no prior knowledge of the Goroseis powers.
I also still believe that the Admirals are the main fighting force of the WG. That is not the point though.
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It’s like you can’t even realize that you are defeating your own argument in real time. Lmfao
“How does the WG prevent Aokiji from defecting?” THEY DON’T. Because they can’t. Which is why Aokiji successfully defected and the WG can’t do anything about it.
“How does the WG prevent Fujitora from disobeying orders?” THEY DON’T. The WG has completely failed to punish Fujitora for anything. Lol
The entire premise of your thread is that the WG wouldn’t be able to keep the Admirals in line if they weren’t stronger than the Admirals, meanwhile in canon One Piece the WG can’t keep the Admirals from doing the very things you claim they should be able to keep them from doing.
It’s almost as if the entire thematic point of the Marines and the Admirals’s characters is that they are good men propagandized into serving a regime that actually can’t stop them from making the world a better place.
Which completely destroys your entire thread but you have the IQ of a mosquito so you never realized this I guess. Lol
The WG can’t force the Admirals to do anything that the Admirals don’t consent to. This is a fact. I’ve already addressed Aokiji and Fujitora, but there have been other instances of Vice Admiral Kuzan, Kizaru, and Ryokugyu disobeying orders as well. Even Vice Admiral Sakazuki technically disobeyed his orders at Ohara, he was not ordered to kill the civilians, he was just ordered to round them up. None of them were punished by the WG for it in any way, shape, or form. Because the WG can’t do shit about it when an Admiral chooses to disobey orders. Lol
The Admirals are not weaker than them. Did you forget what point you were actually trying to argue for???? Lol
“How does the WG prevent Aokiji from defecting?” THEY DON’T. Because they can’t. Which is why Aokiji successfully defected and the WG can’t do anything about it.
“How does the WG prevent Fujitora from disobeying orders?” THEY DON’T. The WG has completely failed to punish Fujitora for anything. Lol
The entire premise of your thread is that the WG wouldn’t be able to keep the Admirals in line if they weren’t stronger than the Admirals, meanwhile in canon One Piece the WG can’t keep the Admirals from doing the very things you claim they should be able to keep them from doing.
It’s almost as if the entire thematic point of the Marines and the Admirals’s characters is that they are good men propagandized into serving a regime that actually can’t stop them from making the world a better place.
Which completely destroys your entire thread but you have the IQ of a mosquito so you never realized this I guess. Lol
The WG can’t force the Admirals to do anything that the Admirals don’t consent to. This is a fact. I’ve already addressed Aokiji and Fujitora, but there have been other instances of Vice Admiral Kuzan, Kizaru, and Ryokugyu disobeying orders as well. Even Vice Admiral Sakazuki technically disobeyed his orders at Ohara, he was not ordered to kill the civilians, he was just ordered to round them up. None of them were punished by the WG for it in any way, shape, or form. Because the WG can’t do shit about it when an Admiral chooses to disobey orders. Lol
The Admirals are not weaker than them. Did you forget what point you were actually trying to argue for???? Lol
I was just giving an example where a marine soldier and the WG political elites would disagree, basically the entire handling of the Dressorsa crisis, not necessarily about Akainus character in particular.
Anyway, the WG being very evil is fine and works for broader things in the story, but idk can Oda throw them a bone or something?
Maybe they prevented someone from getting the ancient weapons a couple years ago and that made a lot of kingdoms
Maybe everyone used to be afraid of giants so they felt like WG could keep small human kingdoms safe
Maybe they're very good at exploiting cheap resources from small countries
maybe
changed agriculture or maybe 
did something great for the environment
just something to explain their stability.
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Anyway, the WG being very evil is fine and works for broader things in the story, but idk can Oda throw them a bone or something?
Maybe they prevented someone from getting the ancient weapons a couple years ago and that made a lot of kingdoms
Maybe everyone used to be afraid of giants so they felt like WG could keep small human kingdoms safe
Maybe they're very good at exploiting cheap resources from small countries
maybe
changed agriculture or maybe did something great for the environmentjust something to explain their stability.
No, the marine.
What I am saying Is that in OP theower of the Goverment Is far, far more stable compared to the same situation you are guessing for OP but in the real world.
In the real world if all the armed forces somehow all united decided to take the Power, nothing could be done. Instead in OP the Goverment had a lot of forces on his own, included the (real) WSM.
What I am saying Is that in OP theower of the Goverment Is far, far more stable compared to the same situation you are guessing for OP but in the real world.
In the real world if all the armed forces somehow all united decided to take the Power, nothing could be done. Instead in OP the Goverment had a lot of forces on his own, included the (real) WSM.
If what you claim is true then this is certainly NOT the case. If Admirals can beat their higher ups then all it may take is for 2 guys to decide to rebel.
That seems rather finnicky and really unlikely for an organization that lasted over 800 years.
Can you at least try to read?
They can not or choose not. Not very conclusive. The point you are trying to make is that the WG has no real leverage over the Admirals.
Which is a valid stance. This leaves the question how the WG is then able to maintain the power structure (of themselves and the world).
As stated in the first post there may also be other means to achieve control.
Its almost as if you can not comprehend the meaning of the word "if".
If (I am not trying to confuse you here) the Gorosei and GKs are stronger than the Admirals, than no opposition against their rule should realistically be possible. Their power would be too great.
Which means that the Gorosei and GKs are weaker and have other means to keep the Marines under control,
or they are stronger, but are, for some unknown reason, unable to use their full power to dominate every opposing group.
There could also be other scenarios that I did not outline.
That seems rather finnicky and really unlikely for an organization that lasted over 800 years.
Can you at least try to read?
They can not or choose not. Not very conclusive. The point you are trying to make is that the WG has no real leverage over the Admirals.
Which is a valid stance. This leaves the question how the WG is then able to maintain the power structure (of themselves and the world).
As stated in the first post there may also be other means to achieve control.
Its almost as if you can not comprehend the meaning of the word "if".
If (I am not trying to confuse you here) the Gorosei and GKs are stronger than the Admirals, than no opposition against their rule should realistically be possible. Their power would be too great.
Which means that the Gorosei and GKs are weaker and have other means to keep the Marines under control,
or they are stronger, but are, for some unknown reason, unable to use their full power to dominate every opposing group.
There could also be other scenarios that I did not outline.
As I said, the real world situation already disprove this.
You are imaging a situation in which in the real world no Goverment would have any chance at all to survive (all military forces, united, decide to take It down).
In OP, you have a Goverment that instead has real power and could fight.
So, as said, not only is an extremely unlikely situation, but the OP WG Is far, far more stable than any real world Goverment.
You are imaging a situation in which in the real world no Goverment would have any chance at all to survive (all military forces, united, decide to take It down).
In OP, you have a Goverment that instead has real power and could fight.
So, as said, not only is an extremely unlikely situation, but the OP WG Is far, far more stable than any real world Goverment.
Seems to me like the WG has never taken any steps at all to punish Admirals who defect, disobey orders, or outright commit treason. And we know at least Warcury was very upset about Kuzan joining Blackbeard and still did nothing. Lol
Which is a valid question, and is 100% the question Oda wants you to ask yourself. And it is a question that has absolutely nothing to do with power levels.
Oda is trying to implant his own irl politics into the mind of the reader, as all writers do. Oda is trying to make you ask yourself why people irl defend power structures that they could depose of. He’s not trying to plant the idea in the minds of his readers that irl power structures possess unlimited power and cannot be supplanted (the message he would be sending if Gorosei > Admirals), he is trying to plant the idea that irl power structures exist at our consent and mercy. Which is why he chose to make the Admirals objectively stronger than the Jobosei and the Holy Yikes.
It’s almost as if you’re trying to chicken out of a point you got called out on and have no response to. Lol
Which is a valid question, and is 100% the question Oda wants you to ask yourself. And it is a question that has absolutely nothing to do with power levels.
Oda is trying to implant his own irl politics into the mind of the reader, as all writers do. Oda is trying to make you ask yourself why people irl defend power structures that they could depose of. He’s not trying to plant the idea in the minds of his readers that irl power structures possess unlimited power and cannot be supplanted (the message he would be sending if Gorosei > Admirals), he is trying to plant the idea that irl power structures exist at our consent and mercy. Which is why he chose to make the Admirals objectively stronger than the Jobosei and the Holy Yikes.
It’s almost as if you’re trying to chicken out of a point you got called out on and have no response to. Lol