Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love
- Thread starter RayanOO
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Because Oda derives no enjoyment from power scaling or its intricacies. To him, It's just a means to an end, a tool to reach a story beat, to evoke a specific feeling/emotion, convey an idea, or to draw a scene he thought would be cool. One Piece is his playground, and on a playground there are no strict rules.
I'm a bit behind on the discussion, but I know y'all were discussing Sanji "accepting his Germa side," which would result in him awakening CoC, or that Sanji has been holding himself back out of fear of becoming like his brothers. But I'm not really sure I agree with that.
With regards to "Sanji accepting his Germa side," personally I don't think that's negotiable if I'm being honest, and if anything I think it'd be him going backwards. We've already moved past that in Wano. Sanji accepted what he had become, weighing the pros and cons with regards to how his awakening would benefit Luffy and the crew, but reached the conclusion that he wasn't going to allow Judge to have any more influence on his destiny than he already has - which was the whole point of him destroying the raid suit. Then fast-forward post-Wano, and Sanji, whilst being able to use the perks of Germa, is still able to retain his emotions. Sanji losing his emotions, for instance, isn't gonna make him stronger than he already is now - he already has all the perks his brothers do even without that caveat, and hell, PoL in itself can only be a thing if Sanji retains his emotions.
Also don't think Sanji is holding himself back out of fear. There's no reason for Sanji to be scared of using his Germa abilities since he's able to switch in and out of Germa mode. Moreover, when Zoro asked about this very issue at the end of Wano, Sanji himself said that the issue had already been resolved.
Lastly, I think there was another post about Sanji's selflessness potentially hindering him from being a conqueror, and again I'd have to say I disagree with that. In the first place, why is selflessness somehow not conqueror-like? We've had Zoro put Luffy before himself on two occasions already, and no one questions his Conqueror credentials. If anything, I think Sanji's selflessness is one of the things that makes Sanji "Sanji" - it's one of his strongest points, and it will honestly suck if that changes. I have a strong feeling that said selflessness is a key reason as to why he's able to use PoL.
Anyways, on the whole CoC thing, the only thing that's standing between Sanji and CoC atm is Oda.
Sanji doesn't need anything to change about his character for him to become a Conqueror.
With regards to "Sanji accepting his Germa side," personally I don't think that's negotiable if I'm being honest, and if anything I think it'd be him going backwards. We've already moved past that in Wano. Sanji accepted what he had become, weighing the pros and cons with regards to how his awakening would benefit Luffy and the crew, but reached the conclusion that he wasn't going to allow Judge to have any more influence on his destiny than he already has - which was the whole point of him destroying the raid suit. Then fast-forward post-Wano, and Sanji, whilst being able to use the perks of Germa, is still able to retain his emotions. Sanji losing his emotions, for instance, isn't gonna make him stronger than he already is now - he already has all the perks his brothers do even without that caveat, and hell, PoL in itself can only be a thing if Sanji retains his emotions.
Also don't think Sanji is holding himself back out of fear. There's no reason for Sanji to be scared of using his Germa abilities since he's able to switch in and out of Germa mode. Moreover, when Zoro asked about this very issue at the end of Wano, Sanji himself said that the issue had already been resolved.
Lastly, I think there was another post about Sanji's selflessness potentially hindering him from being a conqueror, and again I'd have to say I disagree with that. In the first place, why is selflessness somehow not conqueror-like? We've had Zoro put Luffy before himself on two occasions already, and no one questions his Conqueror credentials. If anything, I think Sanji's selflessness is one of the things that makes Sanji "Sanji" - it's one of his strongest points, and it will honestly suck if that changes. I have a strong feeling that said selflessness is a key reason as to why he's able to use PoL.
Anyways, on the whole CoC thing, the only thing that's standing between Sanji and CoC atm is Oda.
Sanji doesn't need anything to change about his character for him to become a Conqueror.
A very good post.
Some points I want to address:
Each of his choices regarding the Germa genes point to him having CoC. He made a conscious effort to reject his emotionless family's influence on who he is as a person. Sanji has always drawn his strenghth from emotion and PoL reflects this. It is the manifestation of his will through his emotions = CoC.
At first, Sanji decided to use the Germa powerup out of love for his crew because he didn't believed in himself and the strength he already has to be enough. The thought of losing his emotions –his defining trait– scared him so he asked Zoro to kill him in case he ever becomes an emotionless machine like his brothers. He witnessed the cruelty no emotions lead to first hand, not only in his childhood memories but in their recent encounters as exemplified by the Cosette incident. I think the experience of seeing his lookalike violently beat a woman burned itself into his memory. The very thought of himself ever doing such a thing would mean he has rejected his entire upbringing outside of Germa and Zeff's teachings.
Eventually Sanji decided that the exoskeleton is enough and that he cannot and does not want to risk losing who his is, he snapped out of it and through the power of his will (=CoC) overcame his low self esteem.
I'd even go so far as to say he required CoC to choose his true self over the free Germa powers.
👏
I think there is often a misunderstandin about what CoC truly is because of the common English translations "color of conquerors" and "color of the supreme king". It's is not about ruling over others or conquering and leading countries/people, it's about one's own willpower and manifesting it. Sanji has a fundamentally emotions based personality. Through his CoC he manifests his will to live as a compassionate person, hence PoL. A selfish Sanji that rejects his emotions might look more 'badass' or like an 'aura farmer' as the kids say these days but it wouldn't be Sanji's true self and certainly would never allow him to develop CoC.
Some points I want to address:
Each of his choices regarding the Germa genes point to him having CoC. He made a conscious effort to reject his emotionless family's influence on who he is as a person. Sanji has always drawn his strenghth from emotion and PoL reflects this. It is the manifestation of his will through his emotions = CoC.
At first, Sanji decided to use the Germa powerup out of love for his crew because he didn't believed in himself and the strength he already has to be enough. The thought of losing his emotions –his defining trait– scared him so he asked Zoro to kill him in case he ever becomes an emotionless machine like his brothers. He witnessed the cruelty no emotions lead to first hand, not only in his childhood memories but in their recent encounters as exemplified by the Cosette incident. I think the experience of seeing his lookalike violently beat a woman burned itself into his memory. The very thought of himself ever doing such a thing would mean he has rejected his entire upbringing outside of Germa and Zeff's teachings.
Eventually Sanji decided that the exoskeleton is enough and that he cannot and does not want to risk losing who his is, he snapped out of it and through the power of his will (=CoC) overcame his low self esteem.
I'd even go so far as to say he required CoC to choose his true self over the free Germa powers.
👏
I think there is often a misunderstandin about what CoC truly is because of the common English translations "color of conquerors" and "color of the supreme king". It's is not about ruling over others or conquering and leading countries/people, it's about one's own willpower and manifesting it. Sanji has a fundamentally emotions based personality. Through his CoC he manifests his will to live as a compassionate person, hence PoL. A selfish Sanji that rejects his emotions might look more 'badass' or like an 'aura farmer' as the kids say these days but it wouldn't be Sanji's true self and certainly would never allow him to develop CoC.
I agree with everything. The "aura farming" shit is doing excessive damages to this community (and to others as well), just look at Roger and, after a while, Rocks too. These people do not want to read One Piece because they like it, it's just for the memes and following the character with more "aura", the ones that shows only one dimensional trait like being strong and stoic. It's either kids or kids stuck in adult body.
It's a plague. I get that memes are funny, but there is no passion anymore in following a work (be a manga, a comic or something else)
It's a plague. I get that memes are funny, but there is no passion anymore in following a work (be a manga, a comic or something else)
I think the last point is referring to my comments.
I don’t think it’s “selflessness” holding Sanji back, it’s as Zeff said, Sanji stifles his own spear of grit for no good reason. And the reason is typically because he feels like he’s useful to those he cares about and not accepting that he can be loved for who he is and not what he offers.
The Queen and Raid Suit scenes imo showcased this best. Sanji clearly didn’t want to use the raid suit at all, but he compromised with himself if it meant saving others. Which sure could be selflessness, until the scene where his internal monologue where he asked what would be more useful to Luffy. At this point it was clear that Sanji under no circumstances wanted to be a warrior of science; however, if that’s what would’ve been of use to Luffy He’d have accepted it.
It’s this need to be useful that is holding him back, because of his trauma from Judge treating him as a waste of life he can’t accept others loving him for who he is. I think once he accepts that he’ll awaken his CoC.
I don’t think it’s “selflessness” holding Sanji back, it’s as Zeff said, Sanji stifles his own spear of grit for no good reason. And the reason is typically because he feels like he’s useful to those he cares about and not accepting that he can be loved for who he is and not what he offers.
The Queen and Raid Suit scenes imo showcased this best. Sanji clearly didn’t want to use the raid suit at all, but he compromised with himself if it meant saving others. Which sure could be selflessness, until the scene where his internal monologue where he asked what would be more useful to Luffy. At this point it was clear that Sanji under no circumstances wanted to be a warrior of science; however, if that’s what would’ve been of use to Luffy He’d have accepted it.
It’s this need to be useful that is holding him back, because of his trauma from Judge treating him as a waste of life he can’t accept others loving him for who he is. I think once he accepts that he’ll awaken his CoC.
😂 oh yes they went from ''Roger sucks he'a a simp like Lanji, what happened to pirates being violent mofos, Rocks > Roger he should've been pirate king'' to "Rocks sucks too he's a loser simp like Lodger Akainu is the last cool character, unknown Davy Jones > Xebec the guy we've been hyping to the heavens a week ago"
I blame short attention spans and the overall decline of society lol
I blame short attention spans and the overall decline of society lol
Yeah he has the perks
But it’s not the main concern Judge had with Sanji
if Sanji hadn’t be a super soldier but was an emotionless monster I think would have been somewhat cool with this. What he really despised was Sanji cooking, Sanji helping others, Sanji refusing the sacrifice two or three clones to attacks someone etc etc
For Judge losing his emotions would make Sanji « stronger », more decisive, more ruthless etc etc
But it’s not the main concern Judge had with Sanji
if Sanji hadn’t be a super soldier but was an emotionless monster I think would have been somewhat cool with this. What he really despised was Sanji cooking, Sanji helping others, Sanji refusing the sacrifice two or three clones to attacks someone etc etc
For Judge losing his emotions would make Sanji « stronger », more decisive, more ruthless etc etc
Judge is first foremost a scientist and the Vinsmoke Siblings were the culmination of all of his research. In other-words, his ultimate creation of which Sanji turned out to be a failure. Judge views emotions as useless for the ultimate super soldier he envisions but that wasn't ultimately why he despised Sanji. He despised him because he was a failure. Moreover, Sanji retaining his emotions also probably reminds him that Sora died precisely because of that.
So in addition to Sanji being a failure, his very existence is what Sora died for.
I mean Reiju has emotions and Judge has no qualms with her.
> For Judge losing his emotions would make Sanji « stronger », more decisive, more ruthless etc etc
I agree with this bit but that at the end of the day that is simply Judge's ideal it doesn't necessarily make it true and PoL I think it basically Sanji's rebuttal to Judge's ideals and what ultimately make him an even greater specimen than his brothers (those very emotions that Judge thinks are unnecessary for a super soldier.)
So in addition to Sanji being a failure, his very existence is what Sora died for.
I mean Reiju has emotions and Judge has no qualms with her.
> For Judge losing his emotions would make Sanji « stronger », more decisive, more ruthless etc etc
I agree with this bit but that at the end of the day that is simply Judge's ideal it doesn't necessarily make it true and PoL I think it basically Sanji's rebuttal to Judge's ideals and what ultimately make him an even greater specimen than his brothers (those very emotions that Judge thinks are unnecessary for a super soldier.)
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Obviously Judge will be wrong and Sanji will be right in the end
but this part of the deal wasnt really settled yet and be the a trigger (domi reversi or Germa gènes kicking in again or nightmare Sanji drawing) for real POL awakening or COC or a new PU etc.
I really think what Judge despised the most was Sanji attitude rather than his lack of modifications
even seeing Sanji fighting almost equally with him he didn’t change his opnion on Sanji because of his mental « weakness »
but this part of the deal wasnt really settled yet and be the a trigger (domi reversi or Germa gènes kicking in again or nightmare Sanji drawing) for real POL awakening or COC or a new PU etc.
I really think what Judge despised the most was Sanji attitude rather than his lack of modifications
even seeing Sanji fighting almost equally with him he didn’t change his opnion on Sanji because of his mental « weakness »
Finally I wrote it down.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...why-it-is-not-a-new-power.71689/#post-6289761
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...why-it-is-not-a-new-power.71689/#post-6289761
Oda praises Sanji's feats far more in the manga to me than other One Piece characters, Toei animations clearly have a hate boner with how they animated him against Seraphim Jinbei and Kizaru.
-Suit offered more durability/protection.
-More speed, even Niji with his raid suit implied he was moving too slow in WCI when he was helping Sanji escape.
-Invisibility: Blackbeard looks like he is going to be the final villain with the strongest Logia and Paramecia DF along with the foreshadowing of Devon touching Saturn and saying their mission was complete when Saturn asked them what Blackbeard was after. Shiryu has the clear clear fruit and he will be Zoro's final opponent as Blackbeard's right hand man so its a strong DF but the suit's technology allowed it to replicate that power.
Instead, he threw that away and got hotter blue flames with coated haki and exoskeleton for more protection and heavier attacks to go with his speed. Assuming he kept the suit he would have been double upgraded and it would have been debatable if the double upgrade put him in Yonko level because that's a plus tier upgrade(suit) on top of another tier upgrade(exoskeleton/blue flames) for being Yonko commander level already. Oda loves this character so much that it won't be an actual surprise that he is already going to be given plot armor to deal with one of the holy knights, so it is already stupid for Zoro fans to continue with the conqueror's Haki troupe as an argument of Zoro being better.
-Suit offered more durability/protection.
-More speed, even Niji with his raid suit implied he was moving too slow in WCI when he was helping Sanji escape.
-Invisibility: Blackbeard looks like he is going to be the final villain with the strongest Logia and Paramecia DF along with the foreshadowing of Devon touching Saturn and saying their mission was complete when Saturn asked them what Blackbeard was after. Shiryu has the clear clear fruit and he will be Zoro's final opponent as Blackbeard's right hand man so its a strong DF but the suit's technology allowed it to replicate that power.
Instead, he threw that away and got hotter blue flames with coated haki and exoskeleton for more protection and heavier attacks to go with his speed. Assuming he kept the suit he would have been double upgraded and it would have been debatable if the double upgrade put him in Yonko level because that's a plus tier upgrade(suit) on top of another tier upgrade(exoskeleton/blue flames) for being Yonko commander level already. Oda loves this character so much that it won't be an actual surprise that he is already going to be given plot armor to deal with one of the holy knights, so it is already stupid for Zoro fans to continue with the conqueror's Haki troupe as an argument of Zoro being better.
