Chapter Discussion CHAPTER 1159: "THE ISLAND OF DESTINY"
- Thread starter The DevilMaster
- Start date
I think it’s wild to compare training to deliberately injuring a child at least twice.
Garp had a purpose in what he did, it was to make Luffy strong. Yes, it’s a bit of shonen slapstick “child abuse can be funny” that would be vile in the real world, but in One Piece it’s fine.
Do you really think that scene of Rocks is comparable, and we’re meant to be thinking “oh that loveable rogue Rocks” as he beats on Loki to force Harald back and laughs about it as the narrator calls him a madman?
No, it’s speculation.
All we know, factually, is that Rocks took hostages, and Rocks killed an Admiral. We also know that Rocks really didn’t look like he’d been in a fight after it.
It‘s a very suspicious set of circumstances. Why do the hostages even come into it, if Rocks can just bulldoze through an Admiral?
I wouldn’t especially say there’s much focus on “valuing loyalty.” He certainly likes Harald (albeit with ulterior motives). He also thrashes Harald’s child, which Harald does not know about, which is not really so how a person should treat their friends.
His relationship with the crew is not especially fleshed out beyond them not liking him much, the crew themselves not liking each other much, and them only loosely being tied for a common goal. Not really much loyalty there.
And yes, he seems to love his wife and kids, which is nice for him, but it’s not enough for full redemption.
And he’s not always upfront, because again, where does taking hostages fit in with that description?
Well, yes, because he factually did use the underhanded tactic of taking hostages in his attempt to infiltrate Mariejois. What was noble and striaghtforward about that?
There’s been nothing to show Whitebeard had any fondness for the rest of Rocks at all.
Saying that he thinks that it’s suspicious how quickly the Marines came doesn’t mean he cares about the crew. It’s not like he’s weeping and wailing about a potential traitor. He just factually says it’s suspicious how quick they are coming.
Everyone loves Shakky, but she’s not a Rocks Pirate either. Whitebeard having a soft spot for her doesn’t mean he gives a monkeys about Linlin or Marlon, for example.
Whitebeard was with Rocks to make money for the people of Sphinx. That’s what he had to gain. He couldn’t have left because of his pride as a pirate, having been beaten in a Davy Back fight.
There’s very little to suggest that he ever thought of them as family. That’s the role his eventual crew played in his life. Everything about Rocks from the beginning has been consistent- they never liked each other and were only it in for a big score. Whitebeard said to Oden he had loads of bad experiences with them.
Garp had a purpose in what he did, it was to make Luffy strong. Yes, it’s a bit of shonen slapstick “child abuse can be funny” that would be vile in the real world, but in One Piece it’s fine.
Do you really think that scene of Rocks is comparable, and we’re meant to be thinking “oh that loveable rogue Rocks” as he beats on Loki to force Harald back and laughs about it as the narrator calls him a madman?
No, it’s speculation.
All we know, factually, is that Rocks took hostages, and Rocks killed an Admiral. We also know that Rocks really didn’t look like he’d been in a fight after it.
It‘s a very suspicious set of circumstances. Why do the hostages even come into it, if Rocks can just bulldoze through an Admiral?
I wouldn’t especially say there’s much focus on “valuing loyalty.” He certainly likes Harald (albeit with ulterior motives). He also thrashes Harald’s child, which Harald does not know about, which is not really so how a person should treat their friends.
His relationship with the crew is not especially fleshed out beyond them not liking him much, the crew themselves not liking each other much, and them only loosely being tied for a common goal. Not really much loyalty there.
And yes, he seems to love his wife and kids, which is nice for him, but it’s not enough for full redemption.
And he’s not always upfront, because again, where does taking hostages fit in with that description?
Well, yes, because he factually did use the underhanded tactic of taking hostages in his attempt to infiltrate Mariejois. What was noble and striaghtforward about that?
There’s been nothing to show Whitebeard had any fondness for the rest of Rocks at all.
Saying that he thinks that it’s suspicious how quickly the Marines came doesn’t mean he cares about the crew. It’s not like he’s weeping and wailing about a potential traitor. He just factually says it’s suspicious how quick they are coming.
Everyone loves Shakky, but she’s not a Rocks Pirate either. Whitebeard having a soft spot for her doesn’t mean he gives a monkeys about Linlin or Marlon, for example.
Whitebeard was with Rocks to make money for the people of Sphinx. That’s what he had to gain. He couldn’t have left because of his pride as a pirate, having been beaten in a Davy Back fight.
There’s very little to suggest that he ever thought of them as family. That’s the role his eventual crew played in his life. Everything about Rocks from the beginning has been consistent- they never liked each other and were only it in for a big score. Whitebeard said to Oden he had loads of bad experiences with them.
I believe Kaido's ruling over Wano is an act of fate which benefitted the country in some ways even tho the citizens lived like crap. It probably delayed the human hunting. But in the end he tried to do something similar like the Celestial Dragon has been doing by killing a massive amount of natives.
Nah, don’t agree. The scene is portrayed as chaotic.
Imu says that the lives of kings mean nothing to him, and Rocks says something about that being expected.
But it’s still left vague as to how Rocks got the kings, how Rocks got to Imu’s chamber, were they with them, were they killed? If they were killled, did Rocks kill them, did Imu kill them to display how little they mean to him? How did Rocks get out the room?
Where did he kill the Admiral? It’s said his attacker then “went to the palace”, so was it before or after he met Imu? If it’s before, did he kill him to get the hostages, or did he have them when it happened.
I don’t think it answered any questions at all about how it happened. Leaving it unseen means it is not an explicit strength feat. The explicit strength feat is the clash with Harald. The death of the Admiral is off panelled, and that leaves it murky.
And it even being a death makes me think of it a bit askance. Oda treats death oddly, we all know, and most of Oda’s death’s aren’t really straightforward, one guy beats another in the fight so the other dies. In fact, I genuinely can’t think of any like that off the top of my head in all the series. Zoro vs Mr 7, off panelled from hundreds of chapters ago?
Imu says that the lives of kings mean nothing to him, and Rocks says something about that being expected.
But it’s still left vague as to how Rocks got the kings, how Rocks got to Imu’s chamber, were they with them, were they killed? If they were killled, did Rocks kill them, did Imu kill them to display how little they mean to him? How did Rocks get out the room?
Where did he kill the Admiral? It’s said his attacker then “went to the palace”, so was it before or after he met Imu? If it’s before, did he kill him to get the hostages, or did he have them when it happened.
I don’t think it answered any questions at all about how it happened. Leaving it unseen means it is not an explicit strength feat. The explicit strength feat is the clash with Harald. The death of the Admiral is off panelled, and that leaves it murky.
And it even being a death makes me think of it a bit askance. Oda treats death oddly, we all know, and most of Oda’s death’s aren’t really straightforward, one guy beats another in the fight so the other dies. In fact, I genuinely can’t think of any like that off the top of my head in all the series. Zoro vs Mr 7, off panelled from hundreds of chapters ago?
Yeah the rocks who clashed with Harald is the guy just got done killing an admiral, and you can actually see some bruises on him.
You’re looking to much into what is clearly a strength feat to show this man means business. Reminds me of all the people who thought Rocks was a buggy esque character who fooled his entire crew to think he was strong because they couldn’t imagine someone that much stronger than guys like WB. When a character is meant to be strong Oda makes it clear via dialogue
You’re looking to much into what is clearly a strength feat to show this man means business. Reminds me of all the people who thought Rocks was a buggy esque character who fooled his entire crew to think he was strong because they couldn’t imagine someone that much stronger than guys like WB. When a character is meant to be strong Oda makes it clear via dialogue
Yes, it’s comparable. Xebec knew Loki was tough and roughed him up. Loki acted big so he got humbled, same way Luffy humbled Colon, just harsher.
@Roo already said it best. The hostages were for extorting/blackmailing Imu, the admiral was just a hypetool. Oda even hammered it in by stating that Xebec beat him so badly that not even the best doctors in the Holy Land could save him. Oda put that line in lol, not even immediate attention from the best medical team in the world could treat the admiral’s injuries. Why would Oda throw that unnecessary line in? —To emphasize how deadly Xebec was. Xebec fights head-on. He got excited when the marines showed up and called them challengers. He’s not a backstabber. He even called out Harald for letting the World Government manipulate him.
Whitebeard’s loyalty is obvious. People twist him criticizing Xebec one time over Loki into contempt, when it’s just a close follower (akin to a right-hand) voicing grievances. The “Whitebeard used Rocks for money” angle is pure headcanon. He didn’t need Rocks for that. If he hated Xebec or didn’t care, he wouldn’t stick around for more than a decade. Instead, he backed the crew’s plans every time. Just re-read his lines from chapter 1155 onward. That’s not someone scheming, that’s someone committed. Dudes like Shiki clearly expressed self-interest first, Whitebeard never did that.
@Roo already said it best. The hostages were for extorting/blackmailing Imu, the admiral was just a hypetool. Oda even hammered it in by stating that Xebec beat him so badly that not even the best doctors in the Holy Land could save him. Oda put that line in lol, not even immediate attention from the best medical team in the world could treat the admiral’s injuries. Why would Oda throw that unnecessary line in? —To emphasize how deadly Xebec was. Xebec fights head-on. He got excited when the marines showed up and called them challengers. He’s not a backstabber. He even called out Harald for letting the World Government manipulate him.
Whitebeard’s loyalty is obvious. People twist him criticizing Xebec one time over Loki into contempt, when it’s just a close follower (akin to a right-hand) voicing grievances. The “Whitebeard used Rocks for money” angle is pure headcanon. He didn’t need Rocks for that. If he hated Xebec or didn’t care, he wouldn’t stick around for more than a decade. Instead, he backed the crew’s plans every time. Just re-read his lines from chapter 1155 onward. That’s not someone scheming, that’s someone committed. Dudes like Shiki clearly expressed self-interest first, Whitebeard never did that.
Last edited:
Who Needs Kaido when you have the samurai
Wano and the World Government have a nasty history, going back to Ryuma fighting them off for Wano's gold.
I 1000% think the Marines were terrified of Oden, and most of the reason for Akainu's comments was him/other Marines seeing Oden live and in action.
Oden was a Pirate between 25-30 years ago for 5 years: 4 with Newgate, 1 with Roger.
Akainu is 55: he would have been 25-30 during Oden's era. Akainu was on Ohara 22 years ago, as a Vice Admiral, when he was 33: It's very likely Akainu had a high rank during Oden's era.
The simplest answer for Akainu's comment?
He was scared Wano had more guys like Oden.
But, not, Aramaki, Akainu's fanboy, knows how weak the Samurai are.
If we find out the Marines were that scared of Oden, the memes will be ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS.
Orochi's ghost watching the entire Kozuki clan get hunted by the Marines like the evil spiteful bastard he is:
The thing about Orochi that Oda fucked up describing is that Orochi was born two decades + after the Kurozumi murder plot was uncovered. Random Kurozumi were being hunted down TWO DECADES after the shit went down. That's why Orochi was so pissed, his immediate family most likely had NOTHING to do with the Kozuki Murder Plot, like Kanjuro's parents.
Oda's invested a lot of foreshadowing into Wano's Human Hunt.
Once Catarina uses her Fruit to change the Blackbeard Pirates into fake Wano officials and take over the country, I 100% believe Teach will use Wano's racism to go after Tama/Yamato/Tama's Gifter friends.
We're going to see the people of Wano turn racist again... then get hunted by the ultra racist celestial dragons.
Bruh.
KUROZUMI TAMA... WAS MEANT TO COOK, NOT BOIL
So if Wano becomes a mirror of God Valley...
Tama = Ginny
Toko = Iva?
Kuma = Bonney, but also Moria
In God Valley, Kuma is hunted for his race: I believe Moria also comes from a hunted tribe. Look at him: ain't no way Moria was not bullied growing up.
Moria will use the corpses of Wano, Wano's "Ghosts" to defend the country from the celestial dragons.
This is why Kuma was so big in Thriller Bark, IMO: Moria is going to do a Kuma in Wano, and save the slaves/Wano people by defending Wano with his Zombie army.
Random Wano guy Aramaki was vacuum sucking: "KOZUKI MORIA! HE'S RETURNED!"
Moria is panting in blood while standing up against Aramaki
Moria: "Kaido was many things! An alcoholic... an abuser... a liar... a killer... a monster. But, EVEN THE KING OF THE BEASTS, HAD STANDARDS! Unless you challenged him, Kaido wouldn't go after you! As long as you bent the knee, and refused to fight back... KAIDO WOULD LET YOU SERVE HIM! He would never treat his slaves, the way you monsters do!
You Celestial Dragon scum... you call us Pirates evil, when this is what you truly are! I worked to only steal pirate Shadows and corpses, so that no one else had to die, when I killed Kaido! THE VALUE OF HUMAN LIFE... OF LIFE ITSELF... YOU STUPID FOOLS DON'T KNOW THE VALUE OF LIFE! I WON'T LET YOU DESTROY ODEN AND TOKI-SAMA'S COUNTRY, ANYMORE! I WON'T LET YOU KILL THEIR PEOPLE! I WON'T LET YOU KILL OUR PEOPLE! MY NAME IS KOZUKI D. GECKO MORIA! GET THE HELL OUT OF WANO, YOU GOVERNMENT LAPDOG SCUMBAGS, OR I'LL MAKE YOUR DAMN CORPSES AND SHADOWS INTO MY ARMY!"
Moria Shadow Army vs GunkImu Domi Reversi Army
Oh my god
Domi Reversi Gifters...
The thing about Orochi that Oda fucked up describing is that Orochi was born two decades + after the Kurozumi murder plot was uncovered. Random Kurozumi were being hunted down TWO DECADES after the shit went down. That's why Orochi was so pissed, his immediate family most likely had NOTHING to do with the Kozuki Murder Plot, like Kanjuro's parents.
Oda's invested a lot of foreshadowing into Wano's Human Hunt.
Once Catarina uses her Fruit to change the Blackbeard Pirates into fake Wano officials and take over the country, I 100% believe Teach will use Wano's racism to go after Tama/Yamato/Tama's Gifter friends.
We're going to see the people of Wano turn racist again... then get hunted by the ultra racist celestial dragons.
Bruh.
KUROZUMI TAMA... WAS MEANT TO COOK, NOT BOIL
So if Wano becomes a mirror of God Valley...
Tama = Ginny
Toko = Iva?
Kuma = Bonney, but also Moria
In God Valley, Kuma is hunted for his race: I believe Moria also comes from a hunted tribe. Look at him: ain't no way Moria was not bullied growing up.
Moria will use the corpses of Wano, Wano's "Ghosts" to defend the country from the celestial dragons.
This is why Kuma was so big in Thriller Bark, IMO: Moria is going to do a Kuma in Wano, and save the slaves/Wano people by defending Wano with his Zombie army.
Random Wano guy Aramaki was vacuum sucking: "KOZUKI MORIA! HE'S RETURNED!"
Moria is panting in blood while standing up against Aramaki
Moria: "Kaido was many things! An alcoholic... an abuser... a liar... a killer... a monster. But, EVEN THE KING OF THE BEASTS, HAD STANDARDS! Unless you challenged him, Kaido wouldn't go after you! As long as you bent the knee, and refused to fight back... KAIDO WOULD LET YOU SERVE HIM! He would never treat his slaves, the way you monsters do!
You Celestial Dragon scum... you call us Pirates evil, when this is what you truly are! I worked to only steal pirate Shadows and corpses, so that no one else had to die, when I killed Kaido! THE VALUE OF HUMAN LIFE... OF LIFE ITSELF... YOU STUPID FOOLS DON'T KNOW THE VALUE OF LIFE! I WON'T LET YOU DESTROY ODEN AND TOKI-SAMA'S COUNTRY, ANYMORE! I WON'T LET YOU KILL THEIR PEOPLE! I WON'T LET YOU KILL OUR PEOPLE! MY NAME IS KOZUKI D. GECKO MORIA! GET THE HELL OUT OF WANO, YOU GOVERNMENT LAPDOG SCUMBAGS, OR I'LL MAKE YOUR DAMN CORPSES AND SHADOWS INTO MY ARMY!"
Moria Shadow Army vs GunkImu Domi Reversi Army
Oh my god
Domi Reversi Gifters...
I’m not at all convinced by the “bruises” argument. Any time Rocks is drawn in a small panel there are things that looks like bruises, because of how cramped his design is (tattoo’s, wrinkles, moustache, nose, forelock all meshing together). There’s panels in the recent chapter where he looks that way.
When we got the cleaner view of Rocks face in the clash with Harald, albiet from side on, he’s totally side on.
I mean, if we are talking about Oda making strength clear from dialogue, I’m reminded that prior to Kaido vs Oden nobody would have thought that Kaido hostage diffed him. Dialogue had led us to believe that as Kaido was so strong, he had beaten him clean. When we saw it, very different story.
Absolutely wild take lmao.
Rocks gives Loki the worst beatdown we’ve seen a kid given in One Piece since Vergo attacked kid Law and people are excusing it because he’s cool.
Well, no, he didn’t do that. We just know the Admirals injuries were so bad that he died, despite everything the doctors were trying to do. That can be the case regardless of whether he got the injuries in battle or not. Is it the sign of a guy who is so strong that when he fights for real he kills his opponents, or is it a sign that he brutally attacks them even if their guard is down?
Making Xebec a hypocrite, as he is also looking to manipulate Harald into helping him become king of the world, and seriously injured his son to do it.
You don’t seem to get that there can be nuance. A guy can be capable of fighting up front, and also doing some underhanded shit. That’s pretty much his son‘s MO.
It’s not especially headcanon that Whitebeard used his gains as a pirate for Sphinx, Marco explicitly told us that’s why Whitebeard went to sea in the first place.
You keep ignoring that Whitebeard literally cannot leave Rocks, because that would be an embarrassment to his pride as a pirate. That’s what the Davy Back fight means, and Whitebeard was all about pride.
There’s nothing in Whitebeard’s lines this flashback, or back when we saw them in Kuma’s, to suggest he especially cares about Rocks at all.
When we got the cleaner view of Rocks face in the clash with Harald, albiet from side on, he’s totally side on.
I mean, if we are talking about Oda making strength clear from dialogue, I’m reminded that prior to Kaido vs Oden nobody would have thought that Kaido hostage diffed him. Dialogue had led us to believe that as Kaido was so strong, he had beaten him clean. When we saw it, very different story.
Absolutely wild take lmao.
Rocks gives Loki the worst beatdown we’ve seen a kid given in One Piece since Vergo attacked kid Law and people are excusing it because he’s cool.
Well, no, he didn’t do that. We just know the Admirals injuries were so bad that he died, despite everything the doctors were trying to do. That can be the case regardless of whether he got the injuries in battle or not. Is it the sign of a guy who is so strong that when he fights for real he kills his opponents, or is it a sign that he brutally attacks them even if their guard is down?
Making Xebec a hypocrite, as he is also looking to manipulate Harald into helping him become king of the world, and seriously injured his son to do it.
You don’t seem to get that there can be nuance. A guy can be capable of fighting up front, and also doing some underhanded shit. That’s pretty much his son‘s MO.
It’s not especially headcanon that Whitebeard used his gains as a pirate for Sphinx, Marco explicitly told us that’s why Whitebeard went to sea in the first place.
You keep ignoring that Whitebeard literally cannot leave Rocks, because that would be an embarrassment to his pride as a pirate. That’s what the Davy Back fight means, and Whitebeard was all about pride.
There’s nothing in Whitebeard’s lines this flashback, or back when we saw them in Kuma’s, to suggest he especially cares about Rocks at all.
