Chapter Discussion CHAPTER 1159: "THE ISLAND OF DESTINY"

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Shamrocks existence is equally shit compared to Sabo, so they would make a good matchup.
Sabo has nothing to do with Shamrock, just like he isnt for Akainu (not saying you are saying this but I see it all the time) guys lol, there's zero narrative payoff there for both. Sabo doesnt know Shanks, so theres no turmoil or conflict there. Sabo also wasnt scarred by Akainu and witnessed Ace's death. The difference is Dragon is about to know Garling through this flashback.

Can Sabo clash with these people? Of course, its make sense to. But thats the extent of it. Sabo will end up facing some other young dickhead CD or potentially a Gorosei eventually.
 
Yep and I feel like the twin was created for the exact idea that Luffy could go all out on someone who is potentially equal to Shanks but completely evil.
Still tho, I don’t see Shanks going out before meeting Luffy. That probably means Shanks either has to come to elbaph or Luffy doesn’t defeat shamrock in elbaf

like I get the feeling that right after we’re done with this flashback we’ll see Blackbeard being intercepted by Shanks
 
Still tho, I don’t see Shanks going out before meeting Luffy. That probably means Shanks either has to come to elbaph or Luffy doesn’t defeat shamrock in elbaf

like I get the feeling that right after we’re done with this flashback we’ll see Blackbeard being intercepted by Shanks
Shanks doesn’t need to die from Blackbeard, he can be captured.

Shanks is probably going to die on god valley just like Roger and Rox fell at the places of their births.
 
Still tho, I don’t see Shanks going out before meeting Luffy. That probably means Shanks either has to come to elbaph or Luffy doesn’t defeat shamrock in elbaf

like I get the feeling that right after we’re done with this flashback we’ll see Blackbeard being intercepted by Shanks
Personal headcanon is this:

- Shamrock comes back to Elbaf, him and Garling (in Mariejoa) are "resolved" by the end of the arc along with a large chunk of Holy Knights. Imo, the WG needs to take a huge hit to their forces sooner than later. Theyd still have 4 Gorosei, Cipher Pol, Serephim among other groups like the Marines. But IMO the Revos will succeed in their goal to defeat Holy Knights first, with the rest defeated on Elbaf.

- Lodestar (or the island before) is potentially next, which builds up and all Yonko and Marines together fighting over the 4th RP. What I believe here is Luffy will end up facing Akainu, but not before allying with Shanks and seeing him again. Shanks protects Luffy from Blackbeard in this sequence. Whatever happens at that point happens (Shanks dies or in the least loses).

- Lodestar/Laugh Tale is entirely tied to the conflict between Luffy and Blackbeard. Things become personal after whatever happens to Shanks happens.

- Laugh Tale and/Or Mariejoa continues that conflict with Imu, after Luffy is PK or is about to become PK.

Obviously Garling and Shamrock could last much longer and all of what is stated above could just be some massive war instead of arc segments but I do believe, if going by Luffy's conflicts with enemies, he has 4 left. All 4 have various reasons given their history directly or indirectly with him.
 
If Garling actually scarred WB here I'll put him top 2 of the verse alive.
If he loses to Rayleigh, he now has the Imu buff so I'll put him top 2 of the verse:moonwalk:
30 years ago when Whitebeard landed at Wano, he had 0 scars.
God Valley was 38 years ago.
So, it's impossible that he got scarred by Garling.
Seems like it was Roger who scarred him because Whitebeard shortly did have bandages on his chest after fighting with Roger 27 years ago I believe.
 
I’m not at all convinced by the “bruises” argument. Any time Rocks is drawn in a small panel there are things that looks like bruises, because of how cramped his design is (tattoo’s, wrinkles, moustache, nose, forelock all meshing together). There’s panels in the recent chapter where he looks that way.

When we got the cleaner view of Rocks face in the clash with Harald, albiet from side on, he’s totally side on.

I mean, if we are talking about Oda making strength clear from dialogue, I’m reminded that prior to Kaido vs Oden nobody would have thought that Kaido hostage diffed him. Dialogue had led us to believe that as Kaido was so strong, he had beaten him clean. When we saw it, very different story.



Absolutely wild take lmao.

Rocks gives Loki the worst beatdown we’ve seen a kid given in One Piece since Vergo attacked kid Law and people are excusing it because he’s cool.


Well, no, he didn’t do that. We just know the Admirals injuries were so bad that he died, despite everything the doctors were trying to do. That can be the case regardless of whether he got the injuries in battle or not. Is it the sign of a guy who is so strong that when he fights for real he kills his opponents, or is it a sign that he brutally attacks them even if their guard is down?



Making Xebec a hypocrite, as he is also looking to manipulate Harald into helping him become king of the world, and seriously injured his son to do it.

You don’t seem to get that there can be nuance. A guy can be capable of fighting up front, and also doing some underhanded shit. That’s pretty much his son‘s MO.




It’s not especially headcanon that Whitebeard used his gains as a pirate for Sphinx, Marco explicitly told us that’s why Whitebeard went to sea in the first place.

You keep ignoring that Whitebeard literally cannot leave Rocks, because that would be an embarrassment to his pride as a pirate. That’s what the Davy Back fight means, and Whitebeard was all about pride.

There’s nothing in Whitebeard’s lines this flashback, or back when we saw them in Kuma’s, to suggest he especially cares about Rocks at all.
You’re exaggerating. Xebec roughed up a cocky tough ancient giant kid once or twice. Garp beat up a weakling like Luffy every single day and nobody cared because the story brushed it off. Same thing with Loki and Xebec. I mean Garp’s straight up a child abuser.

That line was meant to hype Xebec. Oda followed it with him wrecking a Gate of Justice. Hell, Rocks’ introduction is narrated with him killing an admiral. If you still cannot see that this is a strength feat, then please do whatever it takes to convince yourself at this point lol. It’s getting tiresome ngl.

Whitebeard has acted at home with everyone on the crew. He even made Rocks pick up the tab, which ties back to Marco calling him a cheapskate. It’s not hard to understand that he grew attached to people he spent over a decade with. He even calls out Xebec when their ideals clash and warned him about losing focus on the mission to save Shakky. He cared about the crew and was the first to suspect a traitor.

And you seriously think he stuck around for half his life just because of a Davy Back fight and his pride? Lmfao. What kind of psycho do you think Whitebeard is? If he really hated his time with those guys, he could have just challenged Xebec again or really just walk away. In fact, we’ll probably see something along those lines during God’s Valley. Something could have finally made Whitebeard think of abandoning the crew. Maybe witnessing Xebec kill innocents or seeing how rotten and selfish everyone else is.
 
Personal headcanon is this:

- Shamrock comes back to Elbaf, him and Garling (in Mariejoa) are "resolved" by the end of the arc along with a large chunk of Holy Knights. Imo, the WG needs to take a huge hit to their forces sooner than later. Theyd still have 4 Gorosei, Cipher Pol, Serephim among other groups like the Marines. But IMO the Revos will succeed in their goal to defeat Holy Knights first, with the rest defeated on Elbaf.

- Lodestar (or the island before) is potentially next, which builds up and all Yonko and Marines together fighting over the 4th RP. What I believe here is Luffy will end up facing Akainu, but not before allying with Shanks and seeing him again. Shanks protects Luffy from Blackbeard in this sequence. Whatever happens at that point happens (Shanks dies or in the least loses).

- Lodestar/Laugh Tale is entirely tied to the conflict between Luffy and Blackbeard. Things become personal after whatever happens to Shanks happens.

- Laugh Tale and/Or Mariejoa continues that conflict with Imu, after Luffy is PK or is about to become PK.

Obviously Garling and Shamrock could last much longer and all of what is stated above could just be some massive war instead of arc segments but I do believe, if going by Luffy's conflicts with enemies, he has 4 left. All 4 have various reasons given their history directly or indirectly with him.
Problem with Lodestar having the fourth poneglyph, what’s the point of introducing it going missing if it’s on an easily accessible island?
 

This is one the best panel I've seen in the flashback regarding Rocks crew, its a simple forgettable panel isn't?
A giant Elbaf battleship blocking their way!!......"who cares?? sink them".
That's the most Rocks pirates way of response. And i don't see anymore of such kind in this backstory.

While it's great that we got Rocks crew flashback in a backstory supposed to be Harald/Loki backstory.
But the lack of insight and more detail of Rocks pirates make is such a huge disappointment. Oda speed running it like crazy( yes i understand), every chapter there's a huge time skip, no fights n'all.
The so called rivalry with Roger pirates is non-existent,
Heck i don't even think they even fought once directly, and only compete by who did better in their journey, via treasure hunt, achievements etc.
And boom we reach GV. The End of all.
All the fights, destruction and things done by the legendary Rocks pirates were covered by a fking narration.

If he decides to go for a more flesh out backstory of Rocks crew in future arcs, he'll have a pass, but i sincerely doubt it, at best he'll only focus more details of God valley if this flashbacks cover only half of them.
I need more Rocks pirates and their fights with other military org, and their supposed domination.
Fking Shakky has more focus and impact than most of the Rocks memebers lmfaoo.
 
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Problem with Lodestar having the fourth poneglyph, what’s the point of introducing it going missing if it’s on an easily accessible island?
Nah I dont think the island has it, clearly its with the BSM. I just mean the conflict over it will be centralized either on it or, if it exists, the island before.

Oda seemingly cant give us real ship battles so im doubting the BSM will be solely at sea for long lol
 
Nah I dont think the island has it, clearly its with the BSM. I just mean the conflict over it will be centralized either on it or, if it exists, the island before.

Oda seemingly cant give us real ship battles so im doubting the BSM will be solely at sea for long lol
You don’t just think the Man Marked by Flames is just Scopper? The navigator with a flame marker on him?
 
You’re exaggerating. Xebec roughed up a cocky tough ancient giant kid once or twice. Garp beat up a weakling like Luffy every single day and nobody cared because the story brushed it off. Same thing with Loki and Xebec. I mean Garp’s straight up a child abuser.
I’m not exaggerating lol, the story literally draws attention to how wild it is that Rocks brutalised Loki with a kid through Whitebeard criticising him. And then we see that Harald is oblivious as to how he obtained his injuries.

Do you think Harald would have been so friendly with him if he knew what Rocks had did to Loki?

That line was meant to hype Xebec. Oda followed it with him wrecking a Gate of Justice. Hell, Rocks’ introduction is narrated with him killing an admiral. If you still cannot see that this is a strength feat, then please do whatever it takes to convince yourself at this point lol. It’s getting tiresome ngl.
Wrecking the Gates of Justice is not a strength feat, I don’t know why you think that helps your argument.

What it does is show the audacity of Rocks, that he‘s going up against the World Gov directly and attacking them in a way that no one else had done. Same for murdering an Admiral.

But that works just as well if Rocks murdered an Admiral in cold blood, mot im a fight. It’s still showing that he’s doing unheard of deeds. And even if he did murder the Admiral in less than honourable circumstances, it doesn’t mean he’s not strong.

What’s tiresome is people getting so distracted by the shiny new character and hyped up by powerscaling that they refuse to actually consider him as a character.

Whitebeard has acted at home with everyone on the crew. He even made Rocks pick up the tab, which ties back to Marco calling him a cheapskate. It’s not hard to understand that he grew attached to people he spent over a decade with. He even calls out Xebec when their ideals clash and warned him about losing focus on the mission to save Shakky. He cared about the crew and was the first to suspect a traitor.
Whitebeard's‘s literally said he had a ton of bad experiences with the Rocks Pirates and you think he thought they were family?

They were trying to kill each other mid mission lmao.

Why exactly do you think that Whitebeard thinking that the Marines were tipped off equates to him caring about the crew? Where is the connection?

And you seriously think he stuck around for half his life just because of a Davy Back fight and his pride? Lmfao. What kind of psycho do you think Whitebeard is? If he really hated his time with those guys, he could have just challenged Xebec again or really just walk away. In fact, we’ll probably see something along those lines during God’s Valley. Something could have finally made Whitebeard think of abandoning the crew. Maybe witnessing Xebec kill innocents or seeing how rotten and selfish everyone else is.
Whitebeard went to sea to get money for Sphinx. Money that it’s pretty explicit, was obtained in less than legit ways.




So that’s one thing, he’s not a hero.

He is, however, very prideful. There’s a whole big thing in the series about having pride as a pirate and as a man. Hiriluk’s flag, no wounds on the back, never harming a crewmate etc. The original Davy Back fight goes into this, with Zoro telling Chopper to man the fuck up when he starts crying about joining Foxy’s crew.

So yes, Whitebeard joining Rocks by Davy Back fight will mean he’ll stick with them even though he doesn’t like them. With Rocks he’s getting a shit ton of cash for Sphinx, so that’s the main goal. He’s also too proud to have people say “Whitebeard lost a Davy Back and ran away.”

As for the idea that it was only at God’s Valley that the scales dropped from Whitebeard’s eyes after and he suddenly realised that the rest of the crew were not loveable rogues, that’s just laughable. What, he sailed for years and he somehow never managed to notice what they were like?

Sengoku told us way back when Rocks was first properly explained what they were. They were a crew that never really liked each other and fought among themselves. Whitebeard said he had bad experiences with the crew. We then see the crew, and they don’t especially get on with each other, and Rocks only got them to join with Davy Back fights.

But now we’re meant to ignore all that we have seen and read and think they were all bosom buddies that Whitebeard thought of as family?

You guys are so desperate to turn Rocks into a hero that you’re missing everything that’s actually interesting about him and his crew lmao.
 
Sabo has nothing to do with Shamrock, just like he isnt for Akainu (not saying you are saying this but I see it all the time) guys lol, there's zero narrative payoff there for both. Sabo doesnt know Shanks, so theres no turmoil or conflict there. Sabo also wasnt scarred by Akainu and witnessed Ace's death. The difference is Dragon is about to know Garling through this flashback.

Can Sabo clash with these people? Of course, its make sense to. But thats the extent of it. Sabo will end up facing some other young dickhead CD or potentially a Gorosei eventually.
I agree with the narrative points. How about Luffy and Sabo both fight Akainu together, Sabo playing the supporting act and eventually having to bow out because Akainu gets the better of him, but not without first landing some meaningful blows (awakening his devil fruit and making his fire turn blue/black and thus giving us a revenge payoff on Akainu's comments that Lava burns even fire - we need to see that come full circle) and then Luffy completely beating the shit out of him and paying homage to Ace in some way.
 
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