Character Discussion Respect Doflamingo

[soupongo]

? Mingo was the only hostile person there with Kuzan...how exactly is Mingo being singled out if hes the only guy there threatening Smoker's life?


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You're missing the point. Doflamingo was put in that situation where he broke out of Kuzans Ice and laughed in his face. Other characters were not put in this situation, and to the extent some of them arguably were, they did not walk out in the same way. Therefore, his portrayal is being "singled out"

Dodging the point. Oda drew Pre-Udon Luffy getting one shot, and Kinemon getting hit multiple timed and surviving Kaido's attempts to kill him. Oda must mean Kinemon>Luffy since that's all it takes.
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Yeah, this is portrayal, but since we can look at the overall story, this is pretty much just an inconsistency that doesn't really make sense.

I'm obviously not but ok. The many diverse interpretations of the audience is irrelvant. Some believed Mingo was as strong as admirals after the ice scene which is objectively false.

Well yeah, this wasn't really an invalid argument to make after PH. Doffy's standing relative to the admirals was made clear only in Dressrosa really. Nothing in PH or previously indicated he was weaker then an admiral.
(though I mean, you could always go back to the "strongest military force" thing)

We've never seen Mingo do better against Boundman than Cracker either.

Which is a valid observation

We can also assume current Luffy cant hurt Jack cause Oda never drew it. That isn't how it works.

Well yeah, but this is totally a reasonable assumption to make. I don't think it is as reasonable to say Page 1 breaks out of Kuzans Ice.

 

[sanjikun]

How is that an anti feat?

Because it's a laughable way to take a top fighter out of commission. Even Moriah had the honour of being taken out by a Warlord + army of Pacifistas.

You could make the argument that ANYONE can fall into that trap, but Oda would never arrange circumstances in such a way for any top fighter he respects.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Because it's a laughable way to take a top fighter out of commission. Even Moriah had the honour of being taken out by a Warlord + army of Pacifistas.

You could make the argument that ANYONE can fall into that trap, but Oda would never arrange circumstances in such a way for any top fighter he respects.

You're ignoring that it's not actually Onigumo who defeated him. He was just a means of removing the regen so Kizaru could shoot him and have the damage actually last this time.
It's really not that different from the hag in Wano distracting Oden long enough for Kaido to sneak attack him and KO him. Or Guernica allowing Kaido to do the same in Wano.

 

[sanjikun]

You're ignoring that it's not actually Onigumo who defeated him. He was just a means of removing the regen so Kizaru could shoot him and have the damage actually last this time.
It's really not that different from the hag in Wano distracting Oden long enough for Kaido to sneak attack him and KO him. Or Guernica allowing Kaido to do the same in Wano.

It is very different, because that was Oda wanking Oden and Luffy so much he didn't want them to lose "fairly".

 

[Uncle Van]

You're missing the point. Doflamingo was put in that situation where he broke out of Kuzans Ice and laughed in his face. Other characters were not put in this situation, and to the extent some of them arguably were, they did not walk out in the same way. Therefore, his portrayal is being "singled out"

No point is being missed. Within the context of using that moment to say Mingo is stronger than people like Jozu and Cracker, it is clear that some single out Mingo as being special all the while having the ignore everything that was seen and done with Oda.

Mingo escaping flash freeze from a passive Kuzan, and Jozu getting taken out by Ice Time in a fight is not comparable. No such portrayal can be drawn in Mingo's favor.

Yeah, this is portrayal, but since we can look at the overall story, this is pretty much just an inconsistency that doesn't really make sense.

So Oda was trying to portray Kinemon stronger than WCI Luffy?

Well yeah, this wasn't really an invalid argument to make after PH. Doffy's standing relative to the admirals was made clear only in Dressrosa really. Nothing in PH or previously indicated he was weaker then an admiral.
(though I mean, you could always go back to the "strongest military force" thing)

All people had back then was hype, same as them believing 1 Emperor=3 Admirals because of hype. It was proven to be very false.

Well yeah, but this is totally a reasonable assumption to make. I don't think it is as reasonable to say Page 1 breaks out of Kuzans Ice.

Ain't nothing reasonable about thinking Elbaf Luffy is unable to hurt Jack no matter what he does. It is perfectly responsible to believe characters that can shape shift, has COC, or have elemental countered can escape.

We don't assume Franky>WCI Luffy because she happily tired to block Boundman but didn't want to take Radical Beam.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

It is very different, because that was Oda wanking Oden and Luffy so much he didn't want them to lose "fairly".

Marco getting cuffed and then shot while he was distracted by a top tier is a fair loss to you? Man I better not hear y'all ever mention Doffy getting nerfed by Law then, since all of a sudden getting hit by a surprise attack just doesn't matter.

 

[soupongo]

No point is being missed. Within the context of using that moment to say Mingo is stronger than people like Jozu and Cracker, it is clear that some single out Mingo as being special all the while having the ignore everything that was seen and done with Oda.

Mingo escaping flash freeze from a passive Kuzan, and Jozu getting taken out by Ice Time in a fight is not comparable. No such portrayal can be drawn in Mingo's favor.
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I don't think anyone is arguing that Doflamingo is necessarily stronger because of it, but that it was good portrayal for Doflamingo. I don't even think there's an argument against that. He was laughing in Kuzans face, that is insane. No other commander has done that in the manga so far, not even the entire BBP.

So Oda was trying to portray Kinemon stronger than WCI Luffy?


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Did I argue that? No, that was just Oda being inconsistent due to not wanting to kill Kinemon. Same reason we don't assume Pell is the strongest character in verse despite surviving a nuke that was supposed to kill 1 million people.

All people had back then was hype, same as them believing 1 Emperor=3 Admirals because of hype. It was proven to be very false.

Cool, my point is that now that Dressrosa happened, we know that Doffy isn't admiral level, but before that people assumed Doffy may have been around that, because Oda didn't really make it clear Kuzan was stronger then him. Why are you even bringing up an argument no one actually believes anymore?

Ain't nothing reasonable about thinking Elbaf Luffy is unable to hurt Jack no matter what he does. It is perfectly responsible to believe characters that can shape shift, has COC, or have elemental countered can escape.

We don't assume Franky>WCI Luffy because she happily tired to block Boundman but didn't want to take Radical Beam.

Okay, I meant to say that it's reasonable to assume that Luffy can harm Jack, not the other way around.

It is perfectly responsible to believe characters that can shape shift, has COC, or have elemental countered can escape.

Possibly, but that is still an assumption that we can argue about. Doffy broke out of Kuzans Ice on panel. There's obviously a difference between a character actually doing something in the manga, vs assuming they can do it

We don't assume Franky>WCI Luffy because she happily tired to block Boundman but didn't want to take Radical Beam.

Idk the context here, but an attack from Franky is potentially faster, which could be more annoying then bound man, which she easily blocks. BM won't be too affected either way, though.

 

[sanjikun]

Marco getting cuffed and then shot while he was distracted by a top tier is a fair loss to you? Man I better not hear y'all ever mention Doffy getting nerfed by Law then, since all of a sudden getting hit by a surprise attack just doesn't matter.

The difference is Luffy got distracted by a Mid Tier and got clobbered by the World's Strongest. Marco got distracted by an Admiral attack and got owned by a Mid Tier.

No top fighter is being taken out like that in the most important fight of his life by fucking Onigumo. Like I said, circumstances.

 

[GrandmasterChef Zonji]

For years yonko fans have slandered Doflamingo for evading Tsuru and fearing Kaido’s military power
Oda didn’t think well of this slander and had 3 yonkos running for their lives from Garp alone, look at their faces 😂

Doflamingo in the face of Garp’s disciple and superior Aokiji remained cool headed and composed
Walked away like a boss. You can’t buy class.

@Veku @Plex @soupongo @comrade @ConquistadoR @Shiroyru @MonsterKaido

No it means, Tsuru Upscale

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

The difference is Luffy got distracted by a Mid Tier and got clobbered by the World's Strongest. Marco got distracted by an Admiral attack and got owned by a Mid Tier.

No top fighter is being taken out like that in the most important fight of his life by fucking Onigumo. Like I said, circumstances.

"owned by a mid tier" bro all he did was surprise him while he was getting shot by Kizaru and cuffed him, he never actually fought or hurt Marco in any way

He was just a means of letting Kizaru win the fight.

 

[MonsterKaido]

I don't see what has this statement to do with cracker's though who was specifically sent to beat Luffy after he best doffy.

Kizaru is simply hyping Luffy.

 

[kekaro]

I don't see what has this statement to do with cracker's though who was specifically sent to beat Luffy after he best doffy.

Kizaru is simply hyping Luffy.

Kizaru was sent to deal with Luffy and his crew by Saturn specifically too

It's 1:1 the same you can't double dip

 

[MonsterKaido]

Kizaru was sent to deal with Luffy and his crew by Saturn specifically too

It's 1:1 the same you can't double dip

No. Kizaru had nothing to do with Luffy. They were coming to egghead before they even knew SHs were there iirc.

Kizaru didn't even focussed on fighting Luffy and was running from him and focussing to kill vegapunk. Even Luffy was only focussed on stalling Kizaru and not beat him. Hence he threw Kizaru when he grabbed him with G5 rather than squeezing him.

 

[kekaro]

No. Kizaru had nothing to do with Luffy. They were coming to egghead before they even knew SHs were there iirc.

Kizaru didn't even focussed on fighting Luffy and was running from him and focussing to kill vegapunk. Even Luffy was only focussed on stalling Kizaru and not beat him. Hence he threw Kizaru when he grabbed him with G5 rather than squeezing him.

Dude am I really gonna go look for the pages for where Saturn literally said he was disappointed with kizaru, someone who has wasted an emperor so much he was lying at Saturn feet while saying that, cause he took too Long to achieve that? Come on now

 

[MonsterKaido]

Dude am I really gonna go look for the pages for where Saturn literally said he was disappointed with kizaru, someone who has wasted an emperor so much he was lying at Saturn feet while saying that, cause he took too Long to achieve that? Come on now

I checked it and I am correct. Kizaru and VA's were sent before they knew about SHs. They weren't send to fight SHs. So unlike cracker , Kizaru was not sent to beat Luffy.

 

[kekaro]

I checked it and I am correct. Kizaru and VA's were sent before they knew about SHs. They weren't send to fight SHs. So unlike cracker , Kizaru was not sent to beat Luffy.

So let me get this straight according to you this happened:

Saturn send Kizaru into Egghead with no expectation him beating Nika

He than later enters to find this scene:

He is a) 0 surprised that Luffy is defenseless

B) 0 surprised that kizaru bested him

C) his only critique is it took too long, giving a assbeating to a yonko



This means to you = Saturn had never the expectation that kizaru would beat Luffy



Ok i see no point arguing this

 

[MonsterKaido]

So let me get this straight according to you this happened:

Saturn send Kizaru into Egghead with no expectation him beating Nika

He than later enters to find this scene:

He is a) 0 surprised that Luffy is defenseless

B) 0 surprised that kizaru bested him

C) his only critique is it took too long, giving a assbeating to a yonko



This means to you = Saturn had never the expectation that kizaru would beat Luffy



Ok i see no point arguing this

???

Kizaru or Saturn didn't came for Luffy lol. How am I wrong? Kizaru's mission was to kill vegapunk and not to fight/beat Luffy. He tried to get past Luffy so that he can kill vegapunk lol.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Kizaru lists all 3 of his objectives upon defeating Sentomaru, iirc. Interacting with Luffy at all wasn't one of them; and he was likely told to just avoid him seeing as he was told to ignore a weaker opponent.
Luffy just kind of forced him into a fight.

 

[ConquistadoR]

Kizaru was sent to deal with Luffy and his crew by Saturn specifically too

It's 1:1 the same you can't double dip

They're just too smoothbrained to see that really.

"Rules for thee but not for me!"

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

They're just too smoothbrained to see that really.

"Rules for thee but not for me!"

No it's because we see him list the things he needs to do in Egghead and fighting Luffy isn't among those things. He constantly tried to distract Luffy and get away from him but Luffy forced him to fight him.
So they're not the same scenario.
This all could've been avoided if he just posted a panel of Kaido sending Jack after Luffy and Law instead.