Character Discussion Whitebeard was supposedly stronger than Kaidou—but Oden clearly disagrees with that.
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I am judged for bringing statements from the manga. The declarations of Oden and Kaido always affect Roger and Whitebeard, yet the two are labeled as idiots when, in fact, everything they said was correct.
Oden said that if he couldn’t defeat Kaido, there would be no one else capable—in the plural.
That alone tells us that, according to Oden’s statement, Whitebeard would also be incapable because Oden placed himself as the ultimate standard.
If I can’t, then no one in this damn world can.
Oda emphasizes that the new generation—a handful of people who weren’t even born yet—would be the only ones capable of taking down Kaido. This is interpreted as “others could too,” effectively making the term “only ones” lose all its meaning.
Oden said that if he couldn’t defeat Kaido, there would be no one else capable—in the plural.
That alone tells us that, according to Oden’s statement, Whitebeard would also be incapable because Oden placed himself as the ultimate standard.
If I can’t, then no one in this damn world can.
Oda emphasizes that the new generation—a handful of people who weren’t even born yet—would be the only ones capable of taking down Kaido. This is interpreted as “others could too,” effectively making the term “only ones” lose all its meaning.
The Roger pirates disbanded, and Shiki and Garp (which Oden did not even know about) would have even less business coming to Wano. So it all boils down to Whitebeard. Now we know that due to Wano's status as an isolated country, even Whitebeard found out only many years later what happened.
Now the question is, assuming Whitebeard was stronger than Kaido, would there be a point for Oden to assume that Whitebeard will invade Wano and start a war with Kaido? I doubt that's something Oden would have considered, hence he never even mentioned Kaido's presence to Whitebeard or the Roger pirates.
Oden wanted to treat it as an internal affair. Or else, even if Oden assumed no one could've taken Kaido 1 on 1, he may as well had mobilized both Whitebeard + the remnants of the Roger pirates (Rayleigh, Gaban & co.). Obviously, Whitebeard joining hands with Rayleigh and Gaban would've ended in Kaido's tear down and that's not even up to debate.
So the most plausible answer is: narrative. He anticipated a great war 20 years ahead with key players making it to the new world, invading Wano and taking Kaido down. And indeed, the worstgen rookies managed not only to take down Kaido but taking down two Yonko. And I think we all agree that this alliance would still be inferior to a team up of Whitebeard, Rayleigh and Gaban, who would have all been happy to either aid Oden, or avenge him afterwards. But then again, it was Oden treating this as an internal Wano affair and putting his faith in those figures who will come 20 years into the future and throw the world upside down.
So I think over-analyzing this from a power level perspective makes little sense, because again, even if you put Kaido above everyone else 1 on 1, a team up of the Whitebeard and Roger pirate remnants would've stomped the beast pirates. Ask yourself why Oden didn't even want to call his buddies to dethrone Kaido.
Now the question is, assuming Whitebeard was stronger than Kaido, would there be a point for Oden to assume that Whitebeard will invade Wano and start a war with Kaido? I doubt that's something Oden would have considered, hence he never even mentioned Kaido's presence to Whitebeard or the Roger pirates.
Oden wanted to treat it as an internal affair. Or else, even if Oden assumed no one could've taken Kaido 1 on 1, he may as well had mobilized both Whitebeard + the remnants of the Roger pirates (Rayleigh, Gaban & co.). Obviously, Whitebeard joining hands with Rayleigh and Gaban would've ended in Kaido's tear down and that's not even up to debate.
So the most plausible answer is: narrative. He anticipated a great war 20 years ahead with key players making it to the new world, invading Wano and taking Kaido down. And indeed, the worstgen rookies managed not only to take down Kaido but taking down two Yonko. And I think we all agree that this alliance would still be inferior to a team up of Whitebeard, Rayleigh and Gaban, who would have all been happy to either aid Oden, or avenge him afterwards. But then again, it was Oden treating this as an internal Wano affair and putting his faith in those figures who will come 20 years into the future and throw the world upside down.
So I think over-analyzing this from a power level perspective makes little sense, because again, even if you put Kaido above everyone else 1 on 1, a team up of the Whitebeard and Roger pirate remnants would've stomped the beast pirates. Ask yourself why Oden didn't even want to call his buddies to dethrone Kaido.
It'll never be funny with Kaido fans, imagine attacking from this angle, reeks of pure desperation.
Okay then, since Kaido himself thought he was stronger than the 5 other top tiers combined who fought Imu and got neg diffed.
Why aren't you desperately trying to argue that Kaido one shots Imu or is stronger than Imu?
In fact why aren't you trying to argue from the point that it'll take Whitebeard, Roger, Xebec and Garp combined just to push Kaido to low diff?
I mean seriously, why aren't you people arguing this 🤔
Never forget that his statement implies he's far surpassed Imu Saturn because he said no one in the world can be at him except Joy boy.
Okay then, since Kaido himself thought he was stronger than the 5 other top tiers combined who fought Imu and got neg diffed.
Why aren't you desperately trying to argue that Kaido one shots Imu or is stronger than Imu?
In fact why aren't you trying to argue from the point that it'll take Whitebeard, Roger, Xebec and Garp combined just to push Kaido to low diff?
I mean seriously, why aren't you people arguing this 🤔
Never forget that his statement implies he's far surpassed Imu Saturn because he said no one in the world can be at him except Joy boy.
Outside of plot reasons, I see it more as a prophecy.
The best case one can even argue is Kaido barely beating Whitebeard in a 1v1 duel, but in an all out war? Beast Pirates have zero chance of winning.
Oden and the other Roger Pirates know the "truth" of the world. The current year unless there's a timeskip is where everything big happens. The entire world is turning upside down.
The best case one can even argue is Kaido barely beating Whitebeard in a 1v1 duel, but in an all out war? Beast Pirates have zero chance of winning.
Oden and the other Roger Pirates know the "truth" of the world. The current year unless there's a timeskip is where everything big happens. The entire world is turning upside down.
Why did Oden and Oda emphasize twice that not even Prime Whitebeard, Garp, Rayleigh, Gaban, Big Mom, Shiki, or any other pirate of the time could take down Kaidou? The emphasis on “the ones who can strike down Kaido” makes it clear that no one else had enough strength, limiting the possibility of defeat to specific figures who didn’t even exist yet. In this way, it literally says that Kaidou was the STRONGEST for two decades, completely contradicting the idea that Whitebeard was stronger than Kaidou. @nik87 @Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier @MonsterKaido @Hanzo hattori
the man literally let himself get killed so that the Joyboy prophecy occurs
How come, man? The mighty Whitebeard needs to form alliances with two or more top tiers just to take down Kaidou?
This isn’t about prophecy or assuming/supposing that someone would go to Wano — Oden’s words are clear and direct. It’s about who could or could not take down Kaidou at that time. And according to Oden, no one else was capable of doing it.
Everyone knew Kaidou was in Wano. Gaban didn’t go there because he was afraid of him. Whitebeard found out a few years later — yes — but he did find out, and he didn’t start a war because he feared losing too many men. Kaidou used to make expeditions outside Wano, recruit pirates from beyond it like the F6, and even left Wano to go to Marineford.
When Oden and Kaidou talked about who could take him down, both of them projected it into the future and ignored all the characters from the present. Technically, both Kaidou and Oden were saying that no one back then was capable of doing it.
We have Whitebeard knowing everything and avoiding a fight with Kaidou, Gaban knowing everything and avoiding going to Wano because of Kaidou, Blackbeard calling Kaidou a terrifying monster, and finally Green Bull admitting that Kaidou was a deterrent to external enemies (including the Marines).
But according to you, the reason no one challenged Kaidou in Wano and took him down earlier is simply because no one would go to Wano for two decades — when the manga clearly shows that they didn’t go to Wano for two decades precisely because they were avoiding Kaidou. So Kaidou can’t be blamed for people not going to Wano out of fear of him.
They stayed away out of fear — not because of a lack of information.
This isn’t about prophecy or assuming/supposing that someone would go to Wano — Oden’s words are clear and direct. It’s about who could or could not take down Kaidou at that time. And according to Oden, no one else was capable of doing it.
Everyone knew Kaidou was in Wano. Gaban didn’t go there because he was afraid of him. Whitebeard found out a few years later — yes — but he did find out, and he didn’t start a war because he feared losing too many men. Kaidou used to make expeditions outside Wano, recruit pirates from beyond it like the F6, and even left Wano to go to Marineford.
When Oden and Kaidou talked about who could take him down, both of them projected it into the future and ignored all the characters from the present. Technically, both Kaidou and Oden were saying that no one back then was capable of doing it.
We have Whitebeard knowing everything and avoiding a fight with Kaidou, Gaban knowing everything and avoiding going to Wano because of Kaidou, Blackbeard calling Kaidou a terrifying monster, and finally Green Bull admitting that Kaidou was a deterrent to external enemies (including the Marines).
But according to you, the reason no one challenged Kaidou in Wano and took him down earlier is simply because no one would go to Wano for two decades — when the manga clearly shows that they didn’t go to Wano for two decades precisely because they were avoiding Kaidou. So Kaidou can’t be blamed for people not going to Wano out of fear of him.
They stayed away out of fear — not because of a lack of information.
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I think it could also factor in that the other yonko just avoid unnecessary war with each other, we saw WB didn’t want to go invade because it was already too late Oden was gone as opposed to how for Ace they knew the situation and he could still be saved. When you look at the Supernova they had motivation to topple the old guard and other personal reasons for bringing the fight to Kaido.
How come, man? The mighty Whitebeard needs to form alliances with two or more top tiers just to take down Kaidou?
1) didn't Whitebeard team up with Rayleigh and Gaban to avenge Oden and save Wano?
2) why did Oden treat it as an internal matter instead of calling his buddies Whitebeard, Rayleigh and Gaban for aid?
I mean, you can make a case for Kaido > Whitebeard (just as the vice versa case can be made), but Oden's statement isn't the defining factor by virtue of Oden being allies with both WB and the Roger pirates and it's not like WB and the Roger pirates were incapable of teaming up.