Controversial Pot Calling Kettle Black (Nutshell)
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i mean, im the one pointing out the antilogical drivel you are spouting, so its clearly me over you. obviously im not perfect, so it can happen that i make claims that are not logically sound.
and its great that you know what i value and think despite having a history of utterly failing to characterize what my points are lmfao.
ye clearly you dont want to belittle other people here, right.
this is seriously p a t h e t i c
i am making points, you just never really respond to them because you are trapped in your ideological script
well no, we quite literally talked about this like 10 pages ago lmao. i just dont like antilogical nonsense as demonstration if i could instead combine demonstration and facts.
and its great that you know what i value and think despite having a history of utterly failing to characterize what my points are lmfao.
ye clearly you dont want to belittle other people here, right.
this is seriously p a t h e t i c
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i am making points, you just never really respond to them because you are trapped in your ideological script
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well no, we quite literally talked about this like 10 pages ago lmao. i just dont like antilogical nonsense as demonstration if i could instead combine demonstration and facts.
It also requires a proper critical mindset. You are lacking both with the subject at the moment.
I mean.. you can say "antilogical" as many time as you want. If it does not align with reality you will end up facing a lot of road blocks lol
I'm sorry if you feel it that way, that's not the point of my argumentation. If I really wanted to belittle you, you would notice a difference.
Sure, Now ask this exactly to your AI in a new convo please and show me the answer:
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From my point of view, this really sounds ridiculous lol
To give you an idea how much, imagine a flat earther telling this exact thing to someone explaining to them that the earth is round. That's it's a documented and mathematical fact.
What post are you talking about?
I mean.. you can say "antilogical" as many time as you want. If it does not align with reality you will end up facing a lot of road blocks lol
I'm sorry if you feel it that way, that's not the point of my argumentation. If I really wanted to belittle you, you would notice a difference.
Sure, Now ask this exactly to your AI in a new convo please and show me the answer:
>>>>
From my point of view, this really sounds ridiculous lol
To give you an idea how much, imagine a flat earther telling this exact thing to someone explaining to them that the earth is round. That's it's a documented and mathematical fact.
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What post are you talking about?
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Logiko, you ever heard of the problem of the underdetermination of evidence? The problem is the idea that empirical evidence alone is often insufficient to determine which of several competing scientific theories is true, because different theories can explain the same observations equally well.
And you know which science is more underderminated? Sociology (along with history). So you need to be more cautious about that
You seems to believe that some sociological theories are an apoditic truth sometimes
And you know which science is more underderminated? Sociology (along with history). So you need to be more cautious about that
You seems to believe that some sociological theories are an apoditic truth sometimes
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I don’t know if you saw it, but I mentioned how she said in the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk shooting that she also “wants to kill Fauci and Biden” (that is a direct quote from someone living in the year 2025) but wouldn’t because “they probably have families that love them”…so if she wants to cry to HR about me opening her eyes, I can go to them about her closed mind 
Feeling guilty should only be the first step, to be followed by actions that lead to a change in culture and how we interact with members of other communities.
Example: anthropology students diving into old archives of human skulls with racist ass labels attached such as "adult male of the negroid type, Congo basin, 1889", sifting through written documentation with the goal to find information on the person's identity and community the remains were stolen from, putting in motion a potential repatriation of the remains.
When we remain in the state of guilt, we eventually ease into self hatred that leads to nothing our relationship with other cultures would benefit from. Which is why naming white guilt matters.
It's pervasive to feel perpetually guilty of something we, personally, didn't do and had no influence on, it soothes our ego to cultivate a personality that constantly wallows in guilt and puts our own heritage down because it's easy to satisfy our sense of guilt by simply repeating "we are guilty and evil and our heritage is to blame" ad nauseam.
Furthermore, it allows us to leave the deeper questions unasked, such as: "how does colonialism begin? Why did our ancestors benefit from it? How does it affect the victims and their views on us?"
By going the easy way and looking for the cause exclusively within our very own culture, without taking into account the multiple other instances of colonialism and imperialism worldwide, we deprive ourselves of the ability to learn about the psychological and sociological mechanisms inherent to entirety of the human species, thus doing both ourselves, the descendants of the people we colonized as well as all of humankind a big disservice.
The evils of colonialism and imperialism must be tracked down to its root, only then is a future possible where the horrors of the past are not perpetuated(or less perpetuated. China and Russia are catching up rapidly and these two being much better than the Europeans simply because it's their first time doing it is not a rare stance among Africans in Africa). Both by our own group of people as well as others.
One has to act in extreme bad faith and rip partial clauses away from their context as well as the rest of the sentence to interpret it that way.
Read my response to Logiko above to see where I'm coming from.
Example: anthropology students diving into old archives of human skulls with racist ass labels attached such as "adult male of the negroid type, Congo basin, 1889", sifting through written documentation with the goal to find information on the person's identity and community the remains were stolen from, putting in motion a potential repatriation of the remains.
When we remain in the state of guilt, we eventually ease into self hatred that leads to nothing our relationship with other cultures would benefit from. Which is why naming white guilt matters.
It's pervasive to feel perpetually guilty of something we, personally, didn't do and had no influence on, it soothes our ego to cultivate a personality that constantly wallows in guilt and puts our own heritage down because it's easy to satisfy our sense of guilt by simply repeating "we are guilty and evil and our heritage is to blame" ad nauseam.
Furthermore, it allows us to leave the deeper questions unasked, such as: "how does colonialism begin? Why did our ancestors benefit from it? How does it affect the victims and their views on us?"
By going the easy way and looking for the cause exclusively within our very own culture, without taking into account the multiple other instances of colonialism and imperialism worldwide, we deprive ourselves of the ability to learn about the psychological and sociological mechanisms inherent to entirety of the human species, thus doing both ourselves, the descendants of the people we colonized as well as all of humankind a big disservice.
The evils of colonialism and imperialism must be tracked down to its root, only then is a future possible where the horrors of the past are not perpetuated(or less perpetuated. China and Russia are catching up rapidly and these two being much better than the Europeans simply because it's their first time doing it is not a rare stance among Africans in Africa). Both by our own group of people as well as others.
One has to act in extreme bad faith and rip partial clauses away from their context as well as the rest of the sentence to interpret it that way.
Read my response to Logiko above to see where I'm coming from.
Do you have any examples of cases of "un-determination of evidence" ?
Same for the sources over sociology and history being the most "un-determinated". Curious.
I didn't even follow what Logiko was talking about so I don't even have the full context but I'd like to hear more about this epistemological thing.
Same for the sources over sociology and history being the most "un-determinated". Curious.
I didn't even follow what Logiko was talking about so I don't even have the full context but I'd like to hear more about this epistemological thing.
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im just going to wait for your explanation that is due.
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What post are you talking about?
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and then applies them to every single individual regardless of their actual views just due to them living in the society the sociological theories are referring to.
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Ranking sciences over the problem of underdetermination:
1. Highly underdetermined: social sciences and theoretical psychology
- Complex, contextual, and non-repeatable phenomena.
- Variables are numerous and interdependent.
- “Observation” strongly depends on cultural and linguistic interpretations.
Example:
In sociology, the same evidence (e.g., an increase in crime rates) can be explained by economic, cultural, institutional, or psychological theories, among others. None can be logically refuted by the data alone.
2. High-moderate: Cosmology, astrophysics, evolutionary biology, archaeology
3. Moderate: Theoretical physics, theorical chemistry
4. Low: Experimental biology, experimental chemistry, applied physics
5. Very low: Engineering, clinical medicine, experimental computing
6. Almost non-underdetermined: logic and mathematics
1. Highly underdetermined: social sciences and theoretical psychology
- Complex, contextual, and non-repeatable phenomena.
- Variables are numerous and interdependent.
- “Observation” strongly depends on cultural and linguistic interpretations.
Example:
In sociology, the same evidence (e.g., an increase in crime rates) can be explained by economic, cultural, institutional, or psychological theories, among others. None can be logically refuted by the data alone.
2. High-moderate: Cosmology, astrophysics, evolutionary biology, archaeology
3. Moderate: Theoretical physics, theorical chemistry
4. Low: Experimental biology, experimental chemistry, applied physics
5. Very low: Engineering, clinical medicine, experimental computing
6. Almost non-underdetermined: logic and mathematics
Example:
Psychology
Evidence: A patient’s behavior or mental symptoms.
Competing theories:
Psychoanalytic explanation (unconscious trauma)
Cognitive explanation (information processing)
Neurobiological explanation (chemical imbalance)
All fit the same observed behavior but rely on different theoretical frameworks.
Psychology
Evidence: A patient’s behavior or mental symptoms.
Competing theories:
Psychoanalytic explanation (unconscious trauma)
Cognitive explanation (information processing)
Neurobiological explanation (chemical imbalance)
All fit the same observed behavior but rely on different theoretical frameworks.
Another example: heliocentrism vs geocentrism
Both theories worked perfectly to explain planetary motions, but even though heliocentrism was true, it took centuries to be empirically proven. It was only with Friedrich Bessel’s measurement of stellar parallax that heliocentrism was finally confirmed as true.
This means that for centuries, even though heliocentrism was correct, it fell under the problem of underdetermination, since the available evidence could also be interpreted as supporting geocentrism.
Both theories worked perfectly to explain planetary motions, but even though heliocentrism was true, it took centuries to be empirically proven. It was only with Friedrich Bessel’s measurement of stellar parallax that heliocentrism was finally confirmed as true.
This means that for centuries, even though heliocentrism was correct, it fell under the problem of underdetermination, since the available evidence could also be interpreted as supporting geocentrism.
I know and I'm very carefull about the scientificity of what I advance. Under determination can indeed be a problem in sociology, it's a human science after all. But we need to be careful and not fall into the opposite mindset thinking sociology can't be a robust science like any other and use this argument to undermine it. While it is one of the most recent science, it is fundamental to take it seriously.
No. I rather use system/webs of bodies of evidences. I have multiple reading grid to analyze reality. Sociology is one, historical materialism is another. Both work in tandem and while they are robust, they are not perfect and need to be reason with clarity and critical thinking and must be analyzed through our own biases. Just like any other reading grid. Like you said, we must be careful.
Be sure to know, that I'm not blindly following trendy stuff, while it might appear like it because I need to make a form of propaganda here. I'm being very critical of everything I learn all the time, especially about sociology and materialism.
I don't know why you are talking about guilt. I don't know what kind of guilt you feel, but I do not feel any kind of guilt. Knowing and understanding whiteness or imperialism is not about guilt. It's knowledge.
I do not feel any motivation in helping you understand the world at the moment
No. Rather "you can't be french (or a native white westerner) and not have neo-colonial biases".
No. I rather use system/webs of bodies of evidences. I have multiple reading grid to analyze reality. Sociology is one, historical materialism is another. Both work in tandem and while they are robust, they are not perfect and need to be reason with clarity and critical thinking and must be analyzed through our own biases. Just like any other reading grid. Like you said, we must be careful.
Be sure to know, that I'm not blindly following trendy stuff, while it might appear like it because I need to make a form of propaganda here. I'm being very critical of everything I learn all the time, especially about sociology and materialism.
I don't know why you are talking about guilt. I don't know what kind of guilt you feel, but I do not feel any kind of guilt. Knowing and understanding whiteness or imperialism is not about guilt. It's knowledge.
I do not feel any motivation in helping you understand the world at the moment
No. Rather "you can't be french (or a native white westerner) and not have neo-colonial biases".
A more accurate equivalence might be "you can't be a man and not have patriarchal/sexist biases"'.
Why won't you use something like this instead?
''All men are trash''=''all white people are trash''
"Bu..but I say it like this only to trigger people and make them ask questions"
Alright 🙄
Are you seeing your fallacy now?
If some let's say indigenous American person told me "all white people are trash" I'd feel hurt and think "what have I ever done to you, I've never even been to America"
Why won't you use something like this instead?
''All men are trash''=''all white people are trash''
"Bu..but I say it like this only to trigger people and make them ask questions"
Alright 🙄
Are you seeing your fallacy now?
If some let's say indigenous American person told me "all white people are trash" I'd feel hurt and think "what have I ever done to you, I've never even been to America"
Thank you for the power-scaling.
Example is the increase in crime rates then ?
And it sounds like you're just making a case for inter-sectionalism in research. Am I correct ?
Yes the causes can be many.
Yeah this one is a nice example. Are you directly quoting all this from your epistemology class ?
Anyway, scientists are fairly aware of all of this too I guess.
And yeah we're living in an era with its science. Maybe we'll be corrected one day.
Example is the increase in crime rates then ?
And it sounds like you're just making a case for inter-sectionalism in research. Am I correct ?
Yes the causes can be many.
Yeah this one is a nice example. Are you directly quoting all this from your epistemology class ?
Anyway, scientists are fairly aware of all of this too I guess.
And yeah we're living in an era with its science. Maybe we'll be corrected one day.
That's because biases create behavior and systems. Always. It's a characteristic of leaving into a system that shape who we are. As such, to be a man means to understand that you will depict sexist behavior at one point or another. Because that how our system are shaping us. The key lies in the prevention and the understanding that to stop that, we need to break patriarchy (in this case)
More sexist than racist. Or rather cis-sexist in that case. But this is more about a fraction of Yamato fans. Most Yamato fans are very cool
More sexist than racist. Or rather cis-sexist in that case. But this is more about a fraction of Yamato fans. Most Yamato fans are very cool