Bougya Mihawk is the first OP character to split the sky
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This is not Haki as we know it. Btw, if Shanks can knock out 100k fishman, canonically, why did he not knock out the Sea King? Reminder, at this point Shanks was already a famous pirate, above FMI Luffy for sure.
Are you familiar with a retcon? This is pretty clearly one, once Oda decided to create Haki in the end of pre TS, he tried justifying it by using prior examples that happened in the story. But there's basically no in story justification for why no one used or knew about Haki for hundreds of chapters in the story, with the most obvious examples being:
New world vet Sir Crocodile
Globally infamous cipher pol agent, Rob lucci
Blackbeard, who was on a fucking Yonko crew, talking about how he specifically got the Yami Yami no mi to use against Logias, remarking that Ace was not used to getting hit, as a logia, lmfao
Ace the Kaido rival slayer, not being able to use Haki against Smoker
and somehow, none of the strawhats, including characters like Robin who have been pirates for 20 years, or Luffy who was raised by Garp and looked up to Shanks, or Brook, who rubs shoulders with the gods knights, know about this basic shit, lmfao.
Btw, I hope this is trolling, because using the anime to support your arguments is one thing, but using the live action is.... a completely different beast of non canon
Are you familiar with a retcon? This is pretty clearly one, once Oda decided to create Haki in the end of pre TS, he tried justifying it by using prior examples that happened in the story. But there's basically no in story justification for why no one used or knew about Haki for hundreds of chapters in the story, with the most obvious examples being:
New world vet Sir Crocodile
Globally infamous cipher pol agent, Rob lucci
Blackbeard, who was on a fucking Yonko crew, talking about how he specifically got the Yami Yami no mi to use against Logias, remarking that Ace was not used to getting hit, as a logia, lmfao
Ace the Kaido rival slayer, not being able to use Haki against Smoker
and somehow, none of the strawhats, including characters like Robin who have been pirates for 20 years, or Luffy who was raised by Garp and looked up to Shanks, or Brook, who rubs shoulders with the gods knights, know about this basic shit, lmfao.
Btw, I hope this is trolling, because using the anime to support your arguments is one thing, but using the live action is.... a completely different beast of non canon
This is exactly as we know it. Just a light form of it. Similar to the one Luffy used the first time on Duval's hippo.Why did he not knock the sea king? Why would he do that when he can simply scare him? It's more visual and it allows Oda to stay subtle and vague about the power.
Knocking out the sea king would've raised everyone's attention and destroy the impact of that scene that was coming just after. This feat was secondary, the importance relied on Luffy noticing the sacrifice of Shanks. Think narratively.
No matter, if it was indeed a retcon, this power would STILL be haki. A retcon's function is to pass new informations for old info. So it would be the same no matter. But no. It's not a retcon. Haki was used throughout the entire pre-timeskip. In fact chances are that Oda already had his ENTIRE powersystem already established long before drawing the first panel of OP. it would be stupid to start without it.
I'm showing you a body of evidence. THere is not just one but multiple that you can trust. End of debate. You won't have the endgoal when I start to make a OP point.
Knocking out the sea king would've raised everyone's attention and destroy the impact of that scene that was coming just after. This feat was secondary, the importance relied on Luffy noticing the sacrifice of Shanks. Think narratively.
No matter, if it was indeed a retcon, this power would STILL be haki. A retcon's function is to pass new informations for old info. So it would be the same no matter. But no. It's not a retcon. Haki was used throughout the entire pre-timeskip. In fact chances are that Oda already had his ENTIRE powersystem already established long before drawing the first panel of OP. it would be stupid to start without it.
Btw, I hope this is trolling, because using the anime to support your arguments is one thing, but using the live action is.... a completely different beast of non canon
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Yeah, that's a connection Oda has tried to establish literally hundreds of chapters later. Kings Haki has literally never been used like that since. In fact, Shanks canonically barely has control of his COC, even affecting his own recruits when being used, or knocking out White beards crew members while extremely casual, and yet when he glares at the Sea King, it isn't even affected at all.
But suddenly, for the Sea King who was threatening his friend(which Shanks doesn't tolerate, btw) and bit off his fucking arm, he had perfect control and calm
And let me guess, when Vergo intimidated the dragon at Punk Hazard, he was also using COC, and it totally wasn't just a generic anime aura thing?
What are you talking about? Oda was clearly showing off Shanks's strength here. He was strong enough to make a Sea King run away out of pure fear. That's supposed to be hype at the time, obviously. It just doesn't match up to the scale of the things we see 1000s of chapters later
And he didn't mention it for hundreds of chapters because? What's the in universe reason for Pre TS characters not knowing about Haki and Awakening? It doesn't exist.
Why would I trust something not specifically made by the author of one piece? Why are we seeing details that weren't in the manga? Because the show was made like, 30 years later by a studio that wants to appeal to the hardcore OP fans, obviously.
But suddenly, for the Sea King who was threatening his friend(which Shanks doesn't tolerate, btw) and bit off his fucking arm, he had perfect control and calm
And let me guess, when Vergo intimidated the dragon at Punk Hazard, he was also using COC, and it totally wasn't just a generic anime aura thing?
What are you talking about? Oda was clearly showing off Shanks's strength here. He was strong enough to make a Sea King run away out of pure fear. That's supposed to be hype at the time, obviously. It just doesn't match up to the scale of the things we see 1000s of chapters later
And he didn't mention it for hundreds of chapters because? What's the in universe reason for Pre TS characters not knowing about Haki and Awakening? It doesn't exist.
Why would I trust something not specifically made by the author of one piece? Why are we seeing details that weren't in the manga? Because the show was made like, 30 years later by a studio that wants to appeal to the hardcore OP fans, obviously.
I see. I'm sorry, I didn't understand you were trolling lol
Yes it was... Did you read OP?
The three forms of Haki are present since the beginning. Just not visually.
So you are inventing stuff now ? Wait.. if this is how you people are discussing in powerscaling, no wonder you all start to hate on the story. You are actually inventing fake information based on an interpretation to move your agenda.
Shanks always has control of his Haki. Plus Shanks was probably just beginning to learn about conqueror Haki 10 years ago lmao Stop inventing stuff mate.
It was 10 years ago. I hope Shanks learned a lot since then.
Think narratively please.
Because there was no reason to? You are asking silly questions.
Strong characters knows about haki pre-TS, but the reader or the strawhats don't have to know. That's what worldbuilding is for.
All shots were approeved by Oda mate, but if you don't trust this one, trust the others. Haki is present during the entirety of the story.
No author of this caliber is stupid enough to start a power system without thinking about the limitations. The limitation and counter (haki counter devil fruit and Haki is an extention of the will of the user) are directly and thematically linked to the story from start to end.
Yes it was... Did you read OP?
The three forms of Haki are present since the beginning. Just not visually.
So you are inventing stuff now ? Wait.. if this is how you people are discussing in powerscaling, no wonder you all start to hate on the story. You are actually inventing fake information based on an interpretation to move your agenda.
Shanks always has control of his Haki. Plus Shanks was probably just beginning to learn about conqueror Haki 10 years ago lmao Stop inventing stuff mate.
It was 10 years ago. I hope Shanks learned a lot since then.
Think narratively please.
Because there was no reason to? You are asking silly questions.
Strong characters knows about haki pre-TS, but the reader or the strawhats don't have to know. That's what worldbuilding is for.
All shots were approeved by Oda mate, but if you don't trust this one, trust the others. Haki is present during the entirety of the story.
No author of this caliber is stupid enough to start a power system without thinking about the limitations. The limitation and counter (haki counter devil fruit and Haki is an extention of the will of the user) are directly and thematically linked to the story from start to end.
Yes it was... Did you read OP?
The three forms of Haki are present since the beginning. Just not visually.
The three forms of Haki are present since the beginning. Just not visually.
I see. I'm sorry, I didn't understand you were trolling lol
Yes it was... Did you read OP?
The three forms of Haki are present since the beginning. Just not visually.
So you are inventing stuff now ? Wait.. if this is how you people are discussing in powerscaling, no wonder you all start to hate on the story. You are actually inventing fake information based on an interpretation to move your agenda.
Yes it was... Did you read OP?
The three forms of Haki are present since the beginning. Just not visually.
So you are inventing stuff now ? Wait.. if this is how you people are discussing in powerscaling, no wonder you all start to hate on the story. You are actually inventing fake information based on an interpretation to move your agenda.
What is there to learn? Unleashing Kings Haki is so simple a kid can do it. Shanks at this point was a famous pirate, there's no reason to assume his kings Haki when unleashed shouldn't knock out the Sea King. Are we forgetting that Luffy knocked out fucking 10k fishman with his Kings Haki, lol?
Because there was no reason to? You are asking silly questions.
Actually no, Blackbeard and Ace genuinely do not seem to know about Haki in w7
Blackbeard comments that it had been a long time since Ace had been punched. and brags about being able affect logias, and even comments that his powers can't be defended against
........And these are guys who have been in the new world, for years and years, hundreds of chapters in the story. But somehow, we assume Oda had planned Haki in the east blue?
This is meaningless, he can "approve" whatever by okaying it, but that doesn't suddenly make it legitimate or canon, he didn't write the script, and I highly doubt he's realistically going to argue with Netflix about the details of the script they made. It has little to do with his intentions when starting the manga in 1997, obviously.
Haki is a scale. It's not 1 or 0
Nop. Shanks being careless does not mean a lack of control
Everything needs to be learn, it's a skill. THe fact that some children depict it does not mean that it needs to be controlled or even learned correctly.
Perhaps you are not doing that. But in the real world we do not always act rationnally or like machine. It was not brought up simply because it was not. It's not basic info, it's something that demands understanding and fighter usually don't share their secret in this pirate world. Some people know it pre-ts, they simply don't use it and invertly, some people don't know it but use it anyway.
Actually blackbeard knows about haki pre-ts. Sandman talked about it very recently:
BLack beard talked about his power not being defendable because of its nature, not because of Haki
Yup, he did, it would be quite literally impossible to think about logia without thinking about haki and the way to defeat devil fruits (at least if the author is on the level of Oda), it would be suicidal to start the story without it. But even if he did not, it doesn't matter as chapter 1 creates an opening meaning that by design, what Shanks is using in chapter 1 is Haki no matter what you think.
Not canon, but defeinitely legitimate. But like I say, it does not matter. The moment it was mentionned that Luffy remembered Shanks using haki, it was haki. period.
Exactly. Reader here are reasonning in term of powerscaling. Which is fun, but it's useless to analyze the story, worst, it can be detrimental. For Oda to reveal Haki on the 1rst chapter would simply be very bad writing. It's like giving up our the biggest secret on a first encounter. Instead, he simply implied that something happened, then repeated it with mihawk later, then Zoro, then Mantra etc.
Nop. Shanks being careless does not mean a lack of control
Everything needs to be learn, it's a skill. THe fact that some children depict it does not mean that it needs to be controlled or even learned correctly.
Perhaps you are not doing that. But in the real world we do not always act rationnally or like machine. It was not brought up simply because it was not. It's not basic info, it's something that demands understanding and fighter usually don't share their secret in this pirate world. Some people know it pre-ts, they simply don't use it and invertly, some people don't know it but use it anyway.
Actually blackbeard knows about haki pre-ts. Sandman talked about it very recently:
BLack beard talked about his power not being defendable because of its nature, not because of Haki
Yup, he did, it would be quite literally impossible to think about logia without thinking about haki and the way to defeat devil fruits (at least if the author is on the level of Oda), it would be suicidal to start the story without it. But even if he did not, it doesn't matter as chapter 1 creates an opening meaning that by design, what Shanks is using in chapter 1 is Haki no matter what you think.
Not canon, but defeinitely legitimate. But like I say, it does not matter. The moment it was mentionned that Luffy remembered Shanks using haki, it was haki. period.
Exactly. Reader here are reasonning in term of powerscaling. Which is fun, but it's useless to analyze the story, worst, it can be detrimental. For Oda to reveal Haki on the 1rst chapter would simply be very bad writing. It's like giving up our the biggest secret on a first encounter. Instead, he simply implied that something happened, then repeated it with mihawk later, then Zoro, then Mantra etc.
You aren't even saying anything here. Careless or not, when Shanks is entirely calm and using his Kings haki, it has unintended consequences even on his own crew, there's no justifiable reason why an angered Shanks would use his Kings Haki and it wouldn't even be shown affecting the Sea king, just scaring it. And there's no argument that he simply got stronger. This is fundamentally not how Kings Haki is used in One Piece. Either it knocks you out, or struggle to remain still. The Sea King had neither of these affects, and Shanks was clearly enraged and glaring it, so the idea that he was just holding back is fucking retarded.
How is it acting like a machine to explain extremely simple concepts that have very important connections to Luffys future goals lmfao? Was Rayleigh acting like a machine when he explained Haki? And again, you still can't explain why people outside of the new world don't know about Haki, there literally isn't even an in story reason. Characters in verse know about logias, monsters in the new world etc, but somehow the majority don't know about the power system used by globally infamous criminals like Roger, Rayleigh, White beard etc? Why not? There are pirates from the new world going back to the grandline and the blues(like Shanks, for example) and no one notices they have such power? No one notices that high ranking Marines, like Garp, who visits Luffy's town frequently, use it? Why not? Is it a government coverup or something?
This doesn't actually change anything. Blackbeard and Ace were talking as if they weren't familiar with the concept of Armament Haki. A vague reference to Haki doesn't change that the system wasn't something Oda actually planned out, or else there would be no reason why Blackbeard would brag about being able to affect logias, and how Ace had never been hit, or say that his power can't be defendable,when we know for a fact that Haki can counter it, as he should know. Also that doesn't change the fact that:
Ace didn't use Haki against a Logia like Smoker, when we know he has it
Globally infamous criminals like Sir Crocodile, who spent years in the new world, and actually like, canonically have Haki did not use it
Globally infamous cipher pol agents like Lucci, who is called a prodigy and peer of Who's who did not have Haki, when every new world scrub has it.
Are you forgetting that Luffy literally beat two Logias without Haki even being introduced? Why would Oda not just have Luffy learn it if he already had a solution? It's pretty simple, there was no direct counter to Logia powers in the first hundred couple chapters of OP.
And no, OPLA is not relevant to any debate about the manga, in any situation, ever. Lmfao
How is it acting like a machine to explain extremely simple concepts that have very important connections to Luffys future goals lmfao? Was Rayleigh acting like a machine when he explained Haki? And again, you still can't explain why people outside of the new world don't know about Haki, there literally isn't even an in story reason. Characters in verse know about logias, monsters in the new world etc, but somehow the majority don't know about the power system used by globally infamous criminals like Roger, Rayleigh, White beard etc? Why not? There are pirates from the new world going back to the grandline and the blues(like Shanks, for example) and no one notices they have such power? No one notices that high ranking Marines, like Garp, who visits Luffy's town frequently, use it? Why not? Is it a government coverup or something?
This doesn't actually change anything. Blackbeard and Ace were talking as if they weren't familiar with the concept of Armament Haki. A vague reference to Haki doesn't change that the system wasn't something Oda actually planned out, or else there would be no reason why Blackbeard would brag about being able to affect logias, and how Ace had never been hit, or say that his power can't be defendable,when we know for a fact that Haki can counter it, as he should know. Also that doesn't change the fact that:
Ace didn't use Haki against a Logia like Smoker, when we know he has it
Globally infamous criminals like Sir Crocodile, who spent years in the new world, and actually like, canonically have Haki did not use it
Globally infamous cipher pol agents like Lucci, who is called a prodigy and peer of Who's who did not have Haki, when every new world scrub has it.
Are you forgetting that Luffy literally beat two Logias without Haki even being introduced? Why would Oda not just have Luffy learn it if he already had a solution? It's pretty simple, there was no direct counter to Logia powers in the first hundred couple chapters of OP.
And no, OPLA is not relevant to any debate about the manga, in any situation, ever. Lmfao
There are no justifiable reasons for a lots of irrationnal behavior in OP. You need to understand that characters are human, and they do not act with pure efficiency 100% of the time, sometimes, they make judgment that are less reasonable. Shanks was characterized as a rather kind man, so there is no need for him to knock out this monster. Drop it mate. You are looking at OP characters like machines.
No, but he could have explain it when he met Luffy at the auction house, Garp could have said something.. like I said, character in OP are humans, not machines. They do not deliver info on random occasion for no reasons but usually because it's needed for them and for others.
Never said they didn't know about it, just that people don't go around talking about it. Like I said, you are especting characters to act like machine to deliver informations randomly. But characters in stories are not like that, they do not just deliver informations for nothing, sometimes they even have informations they do not know the value of etc. A story is organic, powerscaling is not.
Not all people. Some do, some don't. It's a lived world. Again, not a world made of all knowing machines who think exactly the same way without biases or so.
Yeah, and spoilers, most people probably don't know that some character can fly either through moonwalk. East blue people probably know nothing about the world outside of the journal, westblue, northblue and south blue probably just a little more, people in paradise know the basic but probably have no clue about haki, NW people probably know about haki but have no idea that more level exist etc.
Perhaps someone noticed, but will be laughed at and ridiculized, just like Bellamy ridiculized Luffy. You need to think about the world of OP organically and in term of worldbuilding and geographical/narrative coherence. What you know, NO characters in One Piece are aware of. So when you make worldbuilding discussion without taking this into account, you will make bad analysis.
Why would Garp use Haki in eastblue? Again, you do not think in term of worldbuilding. Think more narratively, it will better you understanding of powerscaling.
No. You are inventing stuff here. The point was not about armement haki but the nature of BB's logia.
And again, being aware of Haki doesn't mean they could use it. All the strawhats are probably aware of Haki, but only Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, Sanji and Jinbe (and perhaps Nami) can use it.
Or he could just be cocky and show that he doesn't need to use haki to affect Logia here. Again, your explanation is bad. There are many clues for haki throughout pre-TS and narratively, it doesn't make sense to create logia (especially smoker) without creating haki to counter them effectively. You probably don't know this, but limitations and coutner power is the first thing we create in magic systems.
We know he had uncontrolled conqueror, but not the others and even then he didn't really fight smoker seriously so there was no need to use haki.
Or it's possible that Crocodile did use haki against Luffy but was too weak to beat him. Having haki doesn't mean that you are strong, it means that you have a strong will and a way to channel it correctly. Women in amazon lily use haki still, if Luffy took them one on one at the end of east blue, they would be gone. (outside of the sisters of course)
Like I said, haki is here since chapter 1. And in skypiea mantra is haki.
Because it makes for a better story. Luffy was lucky in both fight, but haki was not needed. It was Oda playing with the limits. Then, he introduced it when it was not possible to beat Logia user with simple luck. Which Luffy discovered with Smoker
And yet there was. Like I said before: Smoker is a direct menace for Luffy. Luffy simply knows he can't beat him. Meaning that Oda knew already back then how he would make Luffy beat him. It's simple narration. If Oda told you everything in eastblue, OP wouldn't be that interesting.Instead, he put little clues here and there. The first being in chapter 1
Then look at others evidences correctly.
No, but he could have explain it when he met Luffy at the auction house, Garp could have said something.. like I said, character in OP are humans, not machines. They do not deliver info on random occasion for no reasons but usually because it's needed for them and for others.
Never said they didn't know about it, just that people don't go around talking about it. Like I said, you are especting characters to act like machine to deliver informations randomly. But characters in stories are not like that, they do not just deliver informations for nothing, sometimes they even have informations they do not know the value of etc. A story is organic, powerscaling is not.
Not all people. Some do, some don't. It's a lived world. Again, not a world made of all knowing machines who think exactly the same way without biases or so.
Yeah, and spoilers, most people probably don't know that some character can fly either through moonwalk. East blue people probably know nothing about the world outside of the journal, westblue, northblue and south blue probably just a little more, people in paradise know the basic but probably have no clue about haki, NW people probably know about haki but have no idea that more level exist etc.
Perhaps someone noticed, but will be laughed at and ridiculized, just like Bellamy ridiculized Luffy. You need to think about the world of OP organically and in term of worldbuilding and geographical/narrative coherence. What you know, NO characters in One Piece are aware of. So when you make worldbuilding discussion without taking this into account, you will make bad analysis.
Why would Garp use Haki in eastblue? Again, you do not think in term of worldbuilding. Think more narratively, it will better you understanding of powerscaling.
No. You are inventing stuff here. The point was not about armement haki but the nature of BB's logia.
And again, being aware of Haki doesn't mean they could use it. All the strawhats are probably aware of Haki, but only Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, Sanji and Jinbe (and perhaps Nami) can use it.
Or he could just be cocky and show that he doesn't need to use haki to affect Logia here. Again, your explanation is bad. There are many clues for haki throughout pre-TS and narratively, it doesn't make sense to create logia (especially smoker) without creating haki to counter them effectively. You probably don't know this, but limitations and coutner power is the first thing we create in magic systems.
We know he had uncontrolled conqueror, but not the others and even then he didn't really fight smoker seriously so there was no need to use haki.
Or it's possible that Crocodile did use haki against Luffy but was too weak to beat him. Having haki doesn't mean that you are strong, it means that you have a strong will and a way to channel it correctly. Women in amazon lily use haki still, if Luffy took them one on one at the end of east blue, they would be gone. (outside of the sisters of course)
Like I said, haki is here since chapter 1. And in skypiea mantra is haki.
Because it makes for a better story. Luffy was lucky in both fight, but haki was not needed. It was Oda playing with the limits. Then, he introduced it when it was not possible to beat Logia user with simple luck. Which Luffy discovered with Smoker
And yet there was. Like I said before: Smoker is a direct menace for Luffy. Luffy simply knows he can't beat him. Meaning that Oda knew already back then how he would make Luffy beat him. It's simple narration. If Oda told you everything in eastblue, OP wouldn't be that interesting.Instead, he put little clues here and there. The first being in chapter 1
Then look at others evidences correctly.
We only know what Remnants of Krieg Pirates Witnessed,
Maybe that Storm was someone's doing, who was there to Fight Mihawk (Whose Introduction Chapter is Titled "Storm")
It's possible that Krieg didn't witness Battle of Storm vs Storm, an Encounter similar to Shanks vs Kaidou,
Who is associated with Storms? Who was in that Area & entered East Blue around same time as Mihawk?
Oda brought only Two Top Tiers from Grand Line to East Blue during that Saga, and They are Oda's Two Most Reserved Fighters,
And First Island after East Blue Saga happens to show us Luffy vs Zoro, who wondered which is Superior, Swordsmanship & Martial Arts?
I'm not saying that's what happened, but if Oda reveals Mihawk & Dragon Fought before They entered East Blue, don't be Surprised.
Maybe that Storm was someone's doing, who was there to Fight Mihawk (Whose Introduction Chapter is Titled "Storm")
It's possible that Krieg didn't witness Battle of Storm vs Storm, an Encounter similar to Shanks vs Kaidou,
Who is associated with Storms? Who was in that Area & entered East Blue around same time as Mihawk?
Oda brought only Two Top Tiers from Grand Line to East Blue during that Saga, and They are Oda's Two Most Reserved Fighters,
And First Island after East Blue Saga happens to show us Luffy vs Zoro, who wondered which is Superior, Swordsmanship & Martial Arts?
I'm not saying that's what happened, but if Oda reveals Mihawk & Dragon Fought before They entered East Blue, don't be Surprised.