But like understand that is what it is. You are talking about something so impossible that most people who believe in it believe it can only come about via divine intervention.
But like understand that is what it is. You are talking about something so impossible that most people who believe in it believe it can only come about via divine intervention.
When I say that understanding the world is liberating. I'm not joking. This only difference with religion is that we know how to do it. We are just stopped in our path by people who are to afraid to project.
I'll be very real with you. I have always dream about a Utopia. When I was 10 I was already creating drawing and poems about it and I went through the entire political and philosophical spectrum, with the exception perhaps of hardcore religious belief and real reactionnarism. This means that I know the difference between not knowing, and understanding a lot more.
What is see as a potential future is concrete, it's not a revelation, it's a project. Now. Will this be paradise? Perhaps not (
I don't really hope so, or it will be boring) but will it feel like paradise compared to what we have now? Definitely.
It can seems scary because of what happen in URSS. But when we look on a bigger scale, capitalism is much scarier.
Its always insane how you harp on and on and preach to people, but never bother to read their posts or remember what they said. Looks like I have to repeat myself and explain things better than you(again).
Don't worry I won't preach for long. This forum is crumbling anyway.
leftist is to be against the status quo, and to be a cop to enforce the status quo, making police natural enemies of leftist.
Yeah... exactly. I completely agree on that.
if the laws and system is messed up, what does that make the police?
Everything?
I don't even know what to explain here.. Dudude, sometimes I feel like I'm speaking to a leftist, sometimes I feel like I speaking to a police union. It has
everything to do with the police.
If the system is messed up, it means that there are people who are preventing other to change it, that would be :
- The ruling class
- The police (as the weapon of the ruling class)
Get rid of the police and change will happen a LOT faster trust me. On top of that, the Police is not just an instrument of the power, it also perpetuate multiple system of dominations on its own :
- Systemic racism
- Sexism
- Masculinism
- In some cases far rightism and political entrism with SHADY groups.
The police is an integral part of the problem, both as a repressive force and a perpetuation force of the dominations system in place.
And it's not just "the police", it's all the type of work related to this profession. Pretty much all will perpetuate the condition of oppressions for the marginalized and racialized people. All will work for the maintenance of the power and not against.
There is no such thing as an anti-capitalistic cop.
And that's why I talk about the values:
The police. When workers marched for better wages, who was called to shoot them dead in the street? The police. I'm fully aware, never denied it, and mentioned police oppression multiple times.
You are removing yourself from the equation. Like I said, we are not really on Worstgen, but G5.
You are playing Smoker right now. Perhaps thinking (
pardon me the strawman) that "some cops can be good or usefull, that cops are not responsible for the system, only the system is bad".. But Smoker is a Marine and no marine will truly change the world. This is an idealist position.
The problem is you always assuming someone's personal values. You always assume what someone would believe based on their experience and occupation for the sake of your argument. Your logic says anyone who has a job must have pro-capitalist values for fueling the system, and contradicts themselves if they are anti-capitalist in values.
Guy's personal values: pedophiles need to be put to death or at least suffer for the rest of their lives
Guy's job: make sure pedophiles are healthy and free of harm so that they can stand trial
You: he must have some pro-pedophile sympathies to do the job, making him [insert here] politically
No. That's not what I think.
I know that there is something that is blocking the communication here. I don't know what it is exactly, but we always end up on the same point. I'll try to explain it one last time. Please, listen to me and don't try to twist it.
Yes. I do assume personal value. But it's not illogically and not in a normal way, but through a materialist and marxist way:
You know that we, Marxist (
I think it's fair to call myself a new-marxist now) that we consider society in term of classes. Basically, there are two
main class, you know them:
-
The bourgeoisie: the ruling class that owns the means of production and acquires the added value of the proletariat
-
The proletariat: the exploited class that sell its workforce to survive.
What does this paradigm create ?
Class interests:
>The bourgeoisie will have an interest in keeping the propriety of the means of production, the state of capitalism and the exploitation of different classes of worker
> The proletarial will have the interest in raising its material condition (
working condition for ex)
Through this lens, we also know that there are other forms of class , the small bourgeoisie, the state institution etc.
The police is part of the state institutions: It's a repressive form of proletariat and institution that works to maintain the ruling classes and capitalism, we both know that.
Because of its repressive nature, this institution holds the SAME interests as the ruling class : To survive, they must suppress the proletariat and its rights. They must keep private properties safe at all cost.
To do maintain this working force under its thumb, the ruling class has for only solution to justify itself through a set of beliefs and advantages:
- Meritocracy
- Individuality and all the myth surrounding poverty
- The diabolization of the opposition and alternative systems
- The natural order of the world and capitalism even in its weaknesses.
- A form of physical and real life domination over others
- Usually a form of racial profiling that blends everything
This also means that to maintain itself, the state, the state and the ruling classes WILL have to use the fascist or authoritarian button through the means of the police and judiciary forces at one point or another. That "button" will act as a self justification and will reenforce the power. > We can see it with Ice and the IDF.
Now, I've talked about the surface and capitalism, but there are ALLLLLLLLLL the other dominations systems too:
- How people like me are specifically targeted by the police, thorugh symbolic or physical violence
- How racialized people like you or monster are targeted systematically
- How the police is used as a form of suppression of ecological voices
- How fascism is rising FROM the police specifically
- How sexism and rape culture as a whole is perpetuated mainly through the police force and the justice system
etc.
The police has everything to do with the problems of society that they enable. But the institution is also at the center of the solution.
Get rid of the police ------->>>> get rid of the ruling class.
The police is not needed:
- Rapists are usually free
- Criminals are usually also free
- Prisons are overcrowed by racialized profiled people or small stuff.
- We have evidences showing that sentences have no effect on top of being oppressive structure meant to maintain a racial and capitalist power
- A lot of time, when the police is called, it creates more problem than it resolves and could actually be replaced by other organism of help or peerhelping.
Overall the police is a problem. It's what prevent me, you and everyone else to finally challenge the power.
So when I say "you can't be a cop and be a leftist". I'm talking about your class interest. You have NO interest in helping people like me raising in power and challenging your job, you have no interest in the power to crumble, you have no interest in letting a protest go by or let a person steal a bunch of food to survive in front of you.
You might let them, but you risk your job, your place, your position, your social power, your life basically.
I only hope that you don't find out by yourself the oppressive reality of the wall that you are protecting. Yes, there are good people in the police. But they can't be on my side as long as they stay on theirs.
As long as you are in the police, you are against people fighting the status co.
I'm sorry, but all our interactions here, the relationship of domination that I'm facing with you also, the lack of questioning of the current system, the enabling of problematic rethoric... All of this confirmes what I just said.
You may have some leftist knowledge or ideas, you may even become a leftist (and a good one I believe) in the future, but for the moment....
You are a cop, both IRL and on this forum, I'm sorry.
This is not a personal statement and I wish it was different.
At what point are Israelis not native to the land? At the 100 year mark? Palestinians themselves are a mixed of many native groups including those outside of the Arab peninsula for example
Ok I'm done for tonight.
