I feel like you're vastly overstating Whitebeard's feelings towards Rocks. The crew was a ragtag bunch that were forced into an allegiance and functioned out of mutual interest. He seemed to hold enough fondness to fight side by side with him but it's not remotely close to the loyalty a 1st mate has to a captain (Luffy/Zoro).
Character Discussion Preskip characters who suffer the most from the timeskip
- Thread starter Buusatan94
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Whitebeard and Roger indeed suffered lots of aura loss and became a lot more hypocritical and less sympathetic after the timeskip.
For Whitebeard it already started with the whole Oden mess, with him being unwilling to avenge Oden,nbut perfectly willing to go to Marineford and risks his entire crew and all of his allies for Ace.
For Whitebeard it already started with the whole Oden mess, with him being unwilling to avenge Oden,nbut perfectly willing to go to Marineford and risks his entire crew and all of his allies for Ace.
Tbf garp and Roger both had VOAT and hence got to know Xebec was being controlled against his will. I didn't had any issues with WB.
DODGER is the biggest fraud of all time. Levi already mentioned the issues with this clown.
After Roger most of SHs degraded in post skip. Robin being primary example.
DODGER is the biggest fraud of all time. Levi already mentioned the issues with this clown.
After Roger most of SHs degraded in post skip. Robin being primary example.
Don't let Oda and Toei see it lolololol. Although Oda would pick even worse colour schemes than this too. He could never measure up to the colour master himself Araki ofc!
Starting to feel like this is karma for Whitebeard's actions with Oden and Rocks now tbh:
From World's Strongest Man to another massive fraud, fake hyped legend and coward in the series. No scars on his back just because he ran away like people constantly slander Mihawk for doing. a sCaR On a sWoRdSmAn bAcK Is a sWoRdSmAn sHaMe oR W/E /S. /s.
Starting to feel like this is karma for Whitebeard's actions with Oden and Rocks now tbh:
From World's Strongest Man to another massive fraud, fake hyped legend and coward in the series. No scars on his back just because he ran away like people constantly slander Mihawk for doing. a sCaR On a sWoRdSmAn bAcK Is a sWoRdSmAn sHaMe oR W/E /S. /s.
Quoting my post for relevancy here^.
I don’t know where this crew full of besties and brothers stuff is coming from. Harold was xbec only brother to the point he was ready to whoop his crew member for saying let’s force Harold to submit.
If anything putting gv and oden flashback together with pre time skip wb it seem he grew from his mistakes and wanted a family and crew different from xbec.
If anything putting gv and oden flashback together with pre time skip wb it seem he grew from his mistakes and wanted a family and crew different from xbec.
One of the greatest wasted opportunities and signs of how badly Oda has done with Robin since the timeskip, Robin and the Gorosei have no real interaction and moment together aside from Robin showing shock when she recognized the voice of the Gorosei during the Egghead arc.
A proper encounter and talk about their responsibility in the destruction of Ohara should have been the minimum.
A proper encounter and talk about their responsibility in the destruction of Ohara should have been the minimum.
I feel like Mihawk counts. If only because he hasn't been given anything to do since training Zoro. Other than running away from the Marines and joining Cross Guild so they can protect him. He's still probably one of the strongest people in the world, but he really hasn't gotten a chance to show that off in a LONG time. Causing Mihawk's image to decline. Really, it's only his title that still keeps him in people's mind. He's even lost his goth girlfriend! Mihawk's life has just generally gotten worse since the Timeskip.
CP9 in general, maybe? They went from one of THE strongest groups in the world, to outlaws on the run from the Government, to...just rejoining them again because of a SBS side-story? They went from boss-level enemies, to mini-bosses. I don't know, they haven't fully lost their glory. It's just that the Strawhats have grown so much stronger than they have. They're not the threat they used to be. And they're not even interesting character-wise to compensate for that. They're just minions, now. And that's a shame.
Do we want to count Yosaku and Johnny? They went from recurring characters in the manga, to not even being worth a cameo. I don't know if enough people care about these two enough to really bother listing them. But, there's no doubt they've suffered from obscurity post-timeskip. They went from bounty hunters to fishermen. They have definitely declined.
Similarly...Arlong? I mean, he got defeated. His story is over. But, other major One Piece villains have made reappearances since their defeats. But, not Arlong. When candidates for who could join Cross Guild in the future come up, no one even bothers to mention Arlong, even though he's still alive. Doflamingo and even Weevil are always brought up to join Cross Guild later, but almost never Arlong. Most people just see him as too weak. He arguably went from THE most iconic One Piece villain ever, to not even being worth a cameo. If that's not a drop off, I don't know what is.
Jinbe. Arguably, other Strawhats have fallen further, since their dreams are on the back-burner due to the plot. But, Jinbe never even GOT a dream of his own. I think a lot of fans, pre-timeskip, assumed we'd eventually learn SOMETHING interesting about Jinbe. Something that would make him "worthy" of becoming a Strawhat. But, no, not really. Even Jinbe's flashback doesn't get to be about him. His "backstory" has more to to with Fisher Tiger and Otohime than any tragedy that happened to him. He doesn't even get a iconic, memorable backstory that tells us why he has the dream he does, like every other Strawhat has. Jinbe's just along for the ride, in his entire life. He doesn't really want to be the "World's Greatest Helmsman", or to learn how to pilot every vehicle in the world and become the "World's Greatest Pilot", or something. Jinbe just wants to end racism. Which isn't a personal enough goal to actually give him a personality, in my opinion, since it's not really about him. I'd say Jinbe is the Strawhat that's suffered the most from Oda's Post-Timeskip writing style, because he never even GOT a dream to PUT on the back-burner.
Finally, Monkey D Dragon. His first appearance at Loguetown is so mysterious and intriguing! Then we find out he's the leader of the Revolutionaries and Luffy's dad. So much hype! And then...he does...NOTHING for the next 20 years! The best he's gotten is his underwhelming showing in the God Valley flashback. At this point, he's a joke. He's a punchline in this manga. There ARE ways that a character can do nothing and still build up their hype. I think a lot of people are still DYING to see Enel again, even after not doing anything for years. But, that's not the case with Dragon. This might change in the future. But, for right now, he's the posterboy for "squandered potential". I think Dragon gets my vote, personally. Fans still respect Mihawk. And Arlong's story is over. But, Dragon is a walking punchline that I'm not totally convinced will ever recover his former gravitas.
CP9 in general, maybe? They went from one of THE strongest groups in the world, to outlaws on the run from the Government, to...just rejoining them again because of a SBS side-story? They went from boss-level enemies, to mini-bosses. I don't know, they haven't fully lost their glory. It's just that the Strawhats have grown so much stronger than they have. They're not the threat they used to be. And they're not even interesting character-wise to compensate for that. They're just minions, now. And that's a shame.
Do we want to count Yosaku and Johnny? They went from recurring characters in the manga, to not even being worth a cameo. I don't know if enough people care about these two enough to really bother listing them. But, there's no doubt they've suffered from obscurity post-timeskip. They went from bounty hunters to fishermen. They have definitely declined.
Similarly...Arlong? I mean, he got defeated. His story is over. But, other major One Piece villains have made reappearances since their defeats. But, not Arlong. When candidates for who could join Cross Guild in the future come up, no one even bothers to mention Arlong, even though he's still alive. Doflamingo and even Weevil are always brought up to join Cross Guild later, but almost never Arlong. Most people just see him as too weak. He arguably went from THE most iconic One Piece villain ever, to not even being worth a cameo. If that's not a drop off, I don't know what is.
Jinbe. Arguably, other Strawhats have fallen further, since their dreams are on the back-burner due to the plot. But, Jinbe never even GOT a dream of his own. I think a lot of fans, pre-timeskip, assumed we'd eventually learn SOMETHING interesting about Jinbe. Something that would make him "worthy" of becoming a Strawhat. But, no, not really. Even Jinbe's flashback doesn't get to be about him. His "backstory" has more to to with Fisher Tiger and Otohime than any tragedy that happened to him. He doesn't even get a iconic, memorable backstory that tells us why he has the dream he does, like every other Strawhat has. Jinbe's just along for the ride, in his entire life. He doesn't really want to be the "World's Greatest Helmsman", or to learn how to pilot every vehicle in the world and become the "World's Greatest Pilot", or something. Jinbe just wants to end racism. Which isn't a personal enough goal to actually give him a personality, in my opinion, since it's not really about him. I'd say Jinbe is the Strawhat that's suffered the most from Oda's Post-Timeskip writing style, because he never even GOT a dream to PUT on the back-burner.
Finally, Monkey D Dragon. His first appearance at Loguetown is so mysterious and intriguing! Then we find out he's the leader of the Revolutionaries and Luffy's dad. So much hype! And then...he does...NOTHING for the next 20 years! The best he's gotten is his underwhelming showing in the God Valley flashback. At this point, he's a joke. He's a punchline in this manga. There ARE ways that a character can do nothing and still build up their hype. I think a lot of people are still DYING to see Enel again, even after not doing anything for years. But, that's not the case with Dragon. This might change in the future. But, for right now, he's the posterboy for "squandered potential". I think Dragon gets my vote, personally. Fans still respect Mihawk. And Arlong's story is over. But, Dragon is a walking punchline that I'm not totally convinced will ever recover his former gravitas.
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Big Mom. I mean, yeah, I understand we didn't have much info about her prior to the TS, but what a build up to such a disappointing character. All of it wasted.
Smoker and Tashigi, totally agree.
Most of the SHP are suffering from "main-to-background character" syndrome, when they barely get any characterization except for known gags because that's how Oda tells us he still remembers what his characters are about. I miss Sanji's "Mr Prince" moments a lot, and also Luffy was a lot more interesting before the "chosen Nika" bs to me.
Whitebeard wasn't that much of a downfall for me because it was way before his prime. Still a bit of a downer, but not to an extent of Roger. Even fighting DR Rocks doesn't help.
Maybe a bit controversial, but Sabo. Going from a tragic flashback figure to a 'copy-paste Ace' isn't a good look imo, and I liked the original Ace better. I would rather Dragon have a fully new cool character and watch Ace try to compete for the Yonko title while I making WPB not disappear forever and holding them together with Marco (and eventually joining Luffy's cause).
Smoker and Tashigi, totally agree.
Most of the SHP are suffering from "main-to-background character" syndrome, when they barely get any characterization except for known gags because that's how Oda tells us he still remembers what his characters are about. I miss Sanji's "Mr Prince" moments a lot, and also Luffy was a lot more interesting before the "chosen Nika" bs to me.
Whitebeard wasn't that much of a downfall for me because it was way before his prime. Still a bit of a downer, but not to an extent of Roger. Even fighting DR Rocks doesn't help.
Maybe a bit controversial, but Sabo. Going from a tragic flashback figure to a 'copy-paste Ace' isn't a good look imo, and I liked the original Ace better. I would rather Dragon have a fully new cool character and watch Ace try to compete for the Yonko title while I making WPB not disappear forever and holding them together with Marco (and eventually joining Luffy's cause).
-Franky was a cool guy Ice Ventura style in the preskip. Then he became full robot! Altough sometimes he still has cool moments and designs from time to time,so he is surely not the worst case of downgrade postskip
-Nico Robin was cooler when she was a mysterious woman. But i get that Oda made a point on how the Strawhats really gave her the gift of smiling,and also with Saul Alice now she also has another dose of happines too,so i get why Oda changed her,and also sometimes Oda shows us the old Robin like for example Demon Robin in Onigashima
-Chopper: Absolute trash!
-As controversial as it may sound: Law! Preskip he seemed like a cool and chill guy (the middle finger scene is iconic). In the postskip he surely became hotter,but also darker. And altough he is still cool and his story with Doflamingo and Corazon is one of the most beloved by fans, sometimes i wonder how would be the story of the "chill guy" we saw in Sabaody,in another universe lol i guess his design was also very 2000s style
-Maybe this controversial too,but: Bonney!
At the time i loved Bonney's backstory,and its still a good backstory actually. But now,i really dont like that they made Bonney a kid. It would have been better to leave her as a cool woman pirate. This was just another way for Oda to infantalize female characters. But i guess kid Bonney is a nice character anyway
-Smoker and Tashigi yes,definitely too many Ls. They need a win! And yes Tashigi should have been stronger
-Roger! From menace and legend to Gol D. Luffy with horny-ness! But i guess that was kinda the point from the beginning,to reveal him as similar to Luffy
The ones who are improved instead:
-Bellamy has surely a cooler design
-Nico Robin was cooler when she was a mysterious woman. But i get that Oda made a point on how the Strawhats really gave her the gift of smiling,and also with Saul Alice now she also has another dose of happines too,so i get why Oda changed her,and also sometimes Oda shows us the old Robin like for example Demon Robin in Onigashima
-Chopper: Absolute trash!
-As controversial as it may sound: Law! Preskip he seemed like a cool and chill guy (the middle finger scene is iconic). In the postskip he surely became hotter,but also darker. And altough he is still cool and his story with Doflamingo and Corazon is one of the most beloved by fans, sometimes i wonder how would be the story of the "chill guy" we saw in Sabaody,in another universe lol i guess his design was also very 2000s style
-Maybe this controversial too,but: Bonney!
At the time i loved Bonney's backstory,and its still a good backstory actually. But now,i really dont like that they made Bonney a kid. It would have been better to leave her as a cool woman pirate. This was just another way for Oda to infantalize female characters. But i guess kid Bonney is a nice character anyway
-Smoker and Tashigi yes,definitely too many Ls. They need a win! And yes Tashigi should have been stronger
-Roger! From menace and legend to Gol D. Luffy with horny-ness! But i guess that was kinda the point from the beginning,to reveal him as similar to Luffy
The ones who are improved instead:
-Bellamy has surely a cooler design
Yep, this is my biggest gripe with Zoro, he's a powerhouse and has quite cool moves, but other than that there's nothing going on. Even Nami had kinda cool emotional moment with her believing in Luffy as future PK. But tbh almost every SH is less interesting compared to pre-TS version. Sanji got an extended backstory, yes, but his overall characterization suffered as well :(
It's also why I find the absence of scenes between him and Tashigi, and Tashigi's awful treatment postskip, so regrettable. Tashigi does bring Zoro's more sensitive and vulnerable side, and I really wished that their dynamic had been developped further.
It's also a sad waste that Zoro never visited Ryuma's grave onscreen, and never had a rival for the WSS.
It's also a sad waste that Zoro never visited Ryuma's grave onscreen, and never had a rival for the WSS.
