False equivalence

There's a difference between being firm about opinions/beliefs and being firm about something that has been tested, evidence based and observed numerous times.
That's what you don't understand. We are talking about science in both cases.

Your material interest is simply and currently, to diminish the importance of social science (there are various structural reasons for this). So, you reject something that is defined by thinkers, but also by scientists themselves and experienced throughout history by billions of people in their skin.

So when you people tell me "you don't know, you are too rigid on your political beliefs", I hear the same thing as if someone told me "you don't know about heliocentrism, you are too rigid on your vision of the solar system"
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
That's what you don't understand. We are talking about science in both cases.

Your material interest is simply and currently, to diminish the importance of social science (there are various structural reasons for this). So, you reject something that is defined by thinkers, but also by scientists themselves and experience throughout history by billions of people in their skin.

So when you people tell me "you don't know, you are too rigid on your political beliefs", I hear the same thing as if someone told me "you don't know about heliocentrism, you are too rigid on your vision of the solar system"
:lawsigh:

Bro is too radicalised for his own good.
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
You know what? You are a scientist, right? Let's have an experience:

Try to convert me to your political side for at least the two next pages. Let's see if you can do better than me. Let's see if you can manage to make me move.



I love buggy

:pepebuggy:(this is the only buggy emote on the forum, this is a scandal)
Sorry but before you challenge me regarding the experience, you need to first get through my assistants - @Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier , @Uncle Van @Zenos7

Normally, to challenge even my assistants, you need to go through deputy assistant - @MonochromeYoru but he's a lost cause so you are getting free pass here
 

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
Yes, but not against white people.



Concernism has its limits.





A system is bigger than a person, it's like this:



You know this gif, I already used it. The system is the circle, it is formed by the people, but also by their organization, their motion, their direction, the size etc. These, in real life are the instutions, the states, the social norms. But yes, the system is ultimately formed by people. But here is the real point:

It's not enough for people inside the circle to say "I want to stop dancing", they are in motion, and the motion will continue without them until there is only one left, the motion is still here and will eventually lead more people to join the circle. This "inertia" is the pressure I'm talking about. It's the education, the learned behaviors, the manners.

THings that are not inherited, but learned. Things that can be stopped but only at the condition that we understand the structure of the system and we attack it as a system.

Racism is a circle in motion from where we can't just extract yourself, it binds us through our education and behaviors. TO stop racism, changing behaviors is not enough. We must attack the domination for what it is, and institutionnal system of exploitation and domination.

It's comes from the people, but it's much more in reality.

Remember this: Racism was CREATED as a system of domination. It's never became one.




Angela Davis


Nobody is saying the left has no flaws. MANY leftists are stupido. Even some revolutionnaries are racist/ableist/sexist.

The point is: there is no equivalency between the left and the right. The left is generally right and the right is completely wrong.





Claudia Jones



Indeed. It was dumb. At the time, I didn't knew this man:



Frantz Fanon





Judith Ezekiel



William Edward Burghardt Du Bois

(I should've done this from the beginning, I'm so stoopid)



Your argument is idealistic. It's stand on the idealist philosophy that ideologies and viewpoints are one of the biggest factor of social change.

I say : this is wrong. Why? Because materialism. Because reality is not working in an idealistic way where the will of some will completely overide the agency of others to become someone else.

A fascist does not become fascist out of spite of leftist, they become fascist because of material interests, usually racial that they understand either consciousely or not. These material interest are what guide most of their leaning.

As for the acceptance of new beliefs. Researchers already understood that ideas are not developping that way. In reality, it's the opposite. The more people will enter in contact with people who believe in X idea, the most likely they will to adopt said X belief. Usually, that circle is the close one (family, friends).

A person outside of the circle will not influence you when you are already disagreeing with them and it will not push toward another attractive pole. The attraction comes from the size and magnitude of the pole. If the circle of influence is small but heavily linked and heavily radical, it has the potential of converting the ENTIRE spectrum.

What happens in politics, is that two poles are fighting for the attraction of people. Some people are attracted to the left, other to the right.

And what pushes people toward one side or the other are:

- Their material interest
- The strenght of the pull.

NOT THE OTHER POLE. if it was the case, all leftist would be antifascist. And that's not the case.
Naming famous people addresses the fact that you're using words wrong how?
 
To be fair even in middle and high school I was told by history teachers that definitions are always made up by someone with a point of view. Always. They took certain examples from encyclopaedias through the ages and definition books by certain religious like in the Protestant vs Catholic eras of France. That’s how I was personally introduced to questioning definitions.
So?

At the end of the day, a definition is just a description for how a word is used and understood, regardless of any pov or agenda.

And its not like the general definition is mutually exclusive with what logiko is talking about.

Just different definitions for different contexts
 
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That was the main point of the convo and you once again dodged around the fact instead of admitting the obvious that you were wrong.

Please dont once again go on about people not understanding anything when you yourself dont use terms correctly.
Perhaps I'm taking the wrong approach. I'll try something else:

I "know" you are wrong.
You "know" I'm wrong.

We are in front of an impossibility. Now, if I'm wrong, you have nothing to fear and I have everything to lose by keeping my current thinking. But if you are wrong, I have nothing to fear but YOU have everything to lose by keeping your current thinking.

Now.. knowing that we both have a certain interest in knowing who is right or wrong. How do you propose we deal with that?


And its not like the general definition is mutually exclusive with what logiko is talking about.
In this case it is. Because the vulgarized definition define racism as a simple behavior and an individual belief system. If you keep that thinking process, you will always be blind to the fac that racism is not a simple behavior and the structural reason why it can be reversed in the present world.


From my experience some definitely do and some vote right because of it as well.
Yeah. They will tell you that it is the reason, like I was telling myself that the reason I went right was because leftists were stupid and hurting their cause. Until I understood that I was actually being racist and I corrected myself fast enough before going too far.


yes you do
 
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