Character Discussion Imu is clearly the Final Villain

[Johnny B. Decent]

It stopped being that post timeskip. Sasuke was not even interested in Naruto or fighting him. Sasuke was a legit villain at some point, he joined forces for the war but his ulterior motive was to control the dawn of a new era quite literally. He wanted to kill Naruto.

Ehh...whether or not you say he did kinda soften up by their final duel or not, I still would say the stakes were relatively low in contrast to OP's future encounter by virtue of Sasuke being such an asshole who betrayed all his allies that no one abided him anymore. At least Teach has a fleet.

Of course, Kishimoto paradoxically wanted us to still root for Sasuke to some level while simultaneously making him such a unlikable little shithead, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[ZenZu]

Ehh...whether or not you say he did kinda soften up by their final duel or not, I still would say the stakes were relatively low in contrast to OP's future encounter by virtue of Sasuke being such an asshole who betrayed all his allies that no one abided him anymore. At least Teach has a fleet.

Of course, Kishimoto paradoxically wanted us to still root for Sasuke to some level while simultaneously making him such a unlikable little shithead, but that's neither here nor there.

The difference is that Naruto didn't see Sasuke as an enemy. That's the real difference.

If both sides don't see each other as enemies it doesn't hit the same, so stakes feel lowered naturally.

Everything else you mentioned mostly applies to Sasuke too. He literally was trying to control the dawn of the new era, and to guide the world's fate like you said Teach was. He stated clearly Naruto had to die along with the other Bijuu.

That's what their fight was literally about.

 

[Reborn]

I just used Sasuke as an example of an opponent that comes last but fandom still consider someone who fought before him the FV.

The question we should be asking is who will be the biggest obstacle in this verse for Luffy and potentially others? That's what people mean when they are referring to FV.

Final villain implies the last opponent for MC who is stronger or more important than all other enemies in the past and fits the theme or narrative of the story as climax of the story.

WG is bigger in scale and you can even argue importance of WG is more because of their hold over the world and number of allies Luffy needs to take them down.

However, Teach is anti - thesis of Luffy and a perfect matchups for BBPs vs SHs - a pirate vs pirate battle representing Darkness vs Light for all SHs is fitting end to a pirate manga. Add to this, the personal rivalry between Luffy and Teach which is clearly absent between Luffy and IMU so far.


And, Teach always has the potential to get stronger as well as he's the only antagonist who's mirroring Luffy's growth.

And, we really don't know what Teach can pull to raise the stakes higher if he takes the throne- he has tools to do so - Yami and Gura

 

[ZenZu]

Final villain implies the last opponent for MC who is stronger or more important than all other enemies in the past and fits the theme or narrative of the story as climax of the story.

WG is bigger in scale and you can even argue importance of WG is more because of their hold over the world and number of allies Luffy needs to take them down.

However, Teach is anti - thesis of Luffy and a perfect matchups for BBPs vs SHs - a pirate vs pirate battle representing Sun vs Light for all SHs is fitting end to a pirate manga. Add to this, the personal rivalry between Luffy and Teach which is clearly absent between Luffy and IMU so far.


And, Teach always has the potential to get stronger as well as he's the only antagonist who's mirroring Luffy's growth.

And, we really don't know what Teach can pull to raise the stakes higher if he takes the throne- he has tools to do so - Yami and Gura

Yea the Yami can keep Teach in the running for biggest threat even if he is technically weaker. Shutting off devil fruits basically means he can shut off these god abilities, which includes Imu.

 

[Reborn]

Yea the Yami can keep Teach in the running for biggest threat even if he is technically weaker. Shutting off devil fruits basically means he can shut off these god abilities, which includes Imu.

I will tell you something which is more a reach but I will share.

Shanks knows about the WG and acts they commit yet he's more wary of BB and keeps track on his movements.

WG is evil and on bigger scale but they are also keeping the world order intact. They are doing so for 800 years. They aren't pushing the world into chaos.

BB on throne and it will be utter chaos. A man who's all about Dfs will most likely get awakening of atleast yami - a df which is darkness itself. Gura is pure destruction. And, if he gets hand over IMU's abilities then it's BB that can plunge world into darkness and chaos for real

 

[ZenZu]

Shanks knows about the WG and acts they commit yet he's more wary of BB and keeps track on his movements.

Great point actually. Unironically one of the strongest points in BB's favour.

 

[ElderOnitar]

Also, no, I do not believe Blackbeard will take Imu's powers for himself, either. Mostly as I think it would be silly to have the power back only for one more brief conflict and whatever the Yami-Yami's Awakening will be will probably be quite overpowered.

Like he can just turn off DF's without touching people or be able to use their own as long as they are within range.

It's Yami being a secret mythical zoan or Imu's df, if we're looking at the current roster.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

Let me try this again, @ZenZu

Whether you believe Sasuke was a villain or a rival, I still would say the stakes of the final duel were relatively low, as Sasuke had alienated everyone around him and basically got to walk away because Naruto wanted him too. Like there was no one there for him with whatever he wanted to do, had he won.

Whereas Teach could possibly, albeit briefly, be ruling the world because he has a lot of allies, presumably even more via opportunistic pirates who want to join him if that happens.

So as Naruto VS Sasuke is settling a score, Luffy VS Teach does have the world's fate in store.

 

[ZenZu]

Let me try this again, @ZenZu

Whether you believe Sasuke was a villain or a rival, I still would say the stakes of the final duel were relatively low, as Sasuke had alienated everyone around him and basically got to walk away because Naruto wanted him too. Like there was no one there for him with whatever he wanted to do, had he won.

Whereas Teach could possibly, albeit briefly, be ruling the world because he has a lot of allies, presumably even more of opportunistic pirates who want to join him of that happens.

So as Naruto VS Sasuke is settling a score, Luffy VS Teach does have the world's fate in store.

At that time if Naruto was dead there was no one on Sasuke's level who could even stop him. And tbh he would become the Hokage of the leaf village and gain allies, there would be plenty of like minded individuals who would be behind Sasuke. The ninja world has tons of people who would support the likes of Danzo let alone Sasuke.

Let's be honest, Sasuke being isolated is a minor gripe the real issue was Naruto never saw Sasuke as an enemy the way Luffy will with Teach.

But tbh we're just arguing to argue at this point, we both agree the stakes felt lower at the very least.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

Also, Imu does seem to be building to have some level of sympathy for him, if he really was Joy Boy's friend. Like it seems he felt angry and betrayed the way he shouted his name.

But Blackbeard killed one brother and sold another down the river with a twinkle in his eye. Like, even if Imu has some fucked up logic, he seems he thinks his reign is for the best. Teach doesn't have *any* morals.

As bad as Imu is for what the World Nobles have done, as @Reborn alluded to, he's in his own way, even worse then them all.

 

[ZenZu]

Also, Imu does seem to be building to have some level of sympathy for him, if he really was Joy Boy's friend. Like it seems he felt angry and betrayed the way he shouted his name.

But Blackbeard killed one brother and sold another down the river with a twinkle in his eye. Like, even if Imu has some fucked up logic, he seems he thinks his reign is for the best. Teach doesn't have *any* morals.

As bad as Imu is for what the World Nobles have done, as @Reborn alluded to, he's in his own way, even worse then them all.

C'mon bro....now you're just reaching.

Imu and his army/reign is evil incarnate. One of the complaints for Saturn as a villain was that he is cartoonishly evil. Look at how the celestial dragons act, the Holy Knights.

Imu is literally the Devil himself lmao. No need to force this. Teach looks like an angel in comparison, he doesn't look down on humans the way the CDs do.

 

[Reborn]

Hmm, idk about this, it's possible Davy Jones never even properly ruled as king.

We know he had an entire career of piracy (Something even Xebec says), which meant that he came after Joyboy to some degree, since Soyboy is explicitly stated to be the first pirate and the first man to take to the seas. If Davy actually ruled as a previous king that forced the world to go up against him, wouldn't this mean:

1. He gave up or abandoned his throne to go pirating.

2. Or he lost his throne early on and had to follow Joyboy's example of being a pirate (he did this long enough to establish a career as a legendary pirate), and never got it back from Imu or another king of the AK.

We also know from the vegapunk broadcast, that despite whatever happened before, the void century war ultimately came down to the twenty kings specifically forming their alliance against Joyboy's faction. If it came down to the WG alliance trying to lead a war against a tyrannical king Davy, then it's hard to believe to present the Luffy analogue as being on the opposite side.

Let's see it this way -

IMU wasn't the king of the ancient kingdom.

Joyboy was the first pirate who sailed to the seas to seek freedom so he wasn't the king of the ancient kingdom as well.

Xebec referred Davy as the King of the World.

There are no other character to fill the shoes - We have IMU, Joyboy and Davy.

So who could actually be the King of ancient kingdom?

Even though IMU denied he wasn't king but to me it came across as IMU doesn't see Davy fits the image of how King should be

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

C'mon bro....now you're just reaching.

Imu and his army/reign is evil incarnate. One of the complaints for Saturn as a villain was that he is cartoonishly evil. Look at how the celestial dragons act, the Holy Knights.

Imu is literally the Devil himself lmao. No need to force this. Teach looks like an angel in comparison, he doesn't look down on humans the way the CDs do.

Could be....for the moment. But even his little speech before he went to Elbaf seemed a bit odd. Like it seemed more like a lament then entitled whining.

 

[Reborn]

Also, Imu does seem to be building to have some level of sympathy for him, if he really was Joy Boy's friend. Like it seems he felt angry and betrayed the way he shouted his name.

But Blackbeard killed one brother and sold another down the river with a twinkle in his eye. Like, even if Imu has some fucked up logic, he seems he thinks his reign is for the best. Teach doesn't have *any* morals.

As bad as Imu is for what the World Nobles have done, as @Reborn alluded to, he's in his own way, even worse then them all.

We might get some sad backstory for IMU which pushed him to the edge but ultimately he's a devil. Sad backstory can justify what made IMU the way he is but it doesn't absolve him from what he did since then.

I see WG - Good goal , bad means - existing order

BB - Bad goal, bad means - Looming threat

Luffy - Good goal, Good means - New Order - The Dawn

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

We might get some sad backstory for IMU which pushed him to the edge but ultimately he's a devil. Sad backstory can justify what made IMU the way he is but it doesn't absolve him from what he did since then.

I see WG - Good goal , bad means - existing order

BB - Bad goal, bad means - Looming threat

Luffy - Good goal, Good means - New Order

Well, what I mean is, when Imu dies, there may be some element of sympathy. Like a sad old man who lived too long and all that time, he was tied to the past or something.

In comparison, I *really* doubt Teach's own potential death will have any element of that at all.

 

[Reborn]

Well, what I mean is, when Imu dies, there may be some element of sympathy. Like a sad old man who lived too long and all that time, he was tied to the past or something.

In comparison, I *really* doubt Teach's own potential death will have any element of that at all.

In most of the mythologies, devil became devil due to desire for power and control, followed by his downfall or outcast, rise again by making a choice to walk on the dark path.

I don't think Oda will portray either BB or ImU with any sympathetic tone as both of them are two Big Bad Guys of the story.

 

[Shiroyru]

So?

So he’s more important to the story of Naruto than BB is to the story of One Piece

 

[Reborn]

So he’s more important to the story of Naruto than BB is to the story of One Piece

They play different roles in respective stories so it's not your general one is more important than other take.

They have different sorts of importance to the story so not comparable

 

[soupongo]

Could be....for the moment. But even his little speech before he went to Elbaf seemed a bit odd. Like it seemed more like a lament then entitled whining.

Brother, the world government genocided an entire island this flashback for no reason, and they do that shit regularly lol.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

Brother, the world government genocided an entire island this flashback for no reason, and they do that shit regularly lol.

they were sheltering Davys on that island