General & Others One Piece is by far one of the best pieces of literature yet

[Konstantis]

No. I believe One Piece is better because it's the story that taught me the most about creating stories once I started analyzing it and mainly because I found in One Piece things that I never find in other stories. Simple as that.

It's not a question of time or completion, it's about the quality of the work when it is as its best.

This is not your real opinion, but something built through delusion that you make yourself believe in.

Fascism is always incompetent. It's the reason why it fails.

Which means the Villain is shown to be incompetent. Which again confirms my point about the zero-tension story.
Luffy was running around the world for 1,000 chapters, declaring his name, invading government facilities (Enies Lobby, Impel Down, Marineford), and displaying his rubber powers on global television. Yet, the Gorosei did not send a single Admiral to assassination-plot a rookie Luffy to secure the fruit. They only panicked after he fought Kaido in Wano. So how you even take this threat as someting dangerous or serios?

It's feels so weird and so wrong yet.... it's perfectly logical contextually and reframe clues that we didn't know were important before unless you consider that it diminishes Luke's importance to be the son of the Dark Lord, he then would be.. "the son of" (if Star Wars was a manga, this is how this community would frame this revelation).

People mostly associate retcon with bad writing. But this is only because they don't understand the real power of a non-negative retcon. These two revelations delivered HISTORICAL positive shockwaves in their respective fanbase.

This is the power of a POSITIVE retcon.

The Vader twist increased the personal stakes and dramatic tension - the Nika twist decreased them
The Nika reveal does the exact opposite. It doesn't burden Luffy with a tragic moral dilemma; it hands him a literal God-mode power-up that allows him to laugh off a Yonko’s attacks. Vader’s twist added immense dramatic weight. Nika’s retcon stripped the dramatic weight away and turned a brutal war into a Looney Tunes cartoon. That is a negative retcon, not a positive one.

Yes, that's the surface. But within One Piece actually lies a deeper narrative, a materialistic one where you material conditions of existence are determined by your experience and the people you meet (with a lot of spiritual determinism on top).

In One Piece both philosophy coexist to create a romantic "whole". One Piece has the best of idealism and the beginning of a real materialistic thinking. This is why you see many leftist love One Piece and you will usually see rightist eventually hate it. The first understand both, the second, believe only one layer exist and will be taken down by the deconstruction of the tropes and narrative choice of Oda.

Usually saying "It strips away the merit of Luffy"

My point exactly.

Destiny is basically a prediction into a deteministic universe. BUT, we know that the OP's universe is not entirely deterministic, in reality the future is slightly shifting. Depending how you look at it, it could mean that the One Piece universe is actually a multiverse with multiple branch slighly close to eachothers and accessible through premonitions OR there is only one timeline and characters can see probable futures. Depending on the way they "see", the future seen will be more and more distant.

So you claim One Piece represents 'materialist thinking' where conditions dictate success, and you defend the realism of 'if you are born rich, you stay rich? But if Luffy's victory over the World Government is entirely determined by his elite genes (Garp and Dragon) and a sentient God-fruit that literally chose him, then One Piece is a story where only the genetic and spiritual aristocracy can change the world. Which contradicts everything that happened in the whole story.

Basically, what happened is similar to a forecaster saying "there will be a strong hurricane in the sky of Wano on the night of the 5th"

And yes, sometimes prophecies can influence the future and be created by event in the past.. it's a form of the bootstrap paradox.


It's a loop created ex-nihilo. Basically means that the loop is a product of the universe itself, a higher conscience or physical phenomenon. Of course, Oda probably didn't thought about it that way. But this is what the One Piece's universe is.

A magical occurrence of a specific set of circumstances.

So the real question is... Who really made the fifth?

You are explicitly lowering your standards to protect your investment in a 1,300 episode(?) series. A story that treats its central mystery as a literal joke after decades of building global tension isn't 'legendary writing' - it’s an author running out of ideas and masking it as a subversion of tropes. Audiences have every right to demand a payoff that matches the scale of the buildup.

And if it happens last(failed ending), ONE PIECE will be FORGOTTEN! No one will even consider reading/watching 1300 episodes for the MID ending. One Piece will be forgotten, in fact, in just 5 years! When people find out what One Piece is and learn the whole Void Century story, if it does not meet the expectations, this story will be forgotten like a really bad joke. No one would ever recommend you to watch/read One Piece in the future. It will be over.

 

[Reborn]

I don't think One Piece is the best literature out there but one can make a case for it being one of the best in its niche.

I don't agree with the opinions "Other manga had good sales or revenue in a year or two, so they are better or more engaging just because they were less in volume".


Hitting gym for sometime is relatively much more easy than doing so for long time.

Earning good sales in a month or year is relatively easier than sustaining it for decades.

Starting a project for short run with high quality is relatively easy than sustaining it for years.

One piece sheer volume and longevity while still maintaining decent quality needs to be respected.


I also don't agree with the belief that "we are still with one piece simply because of forum discussions. "

I mean I don't invest my time and energy on topics which doesn't pique my interests or I don't like.

So, if people are still discussing one piece on this forum then it's because story do hook them in some ways which in itself is big deal and a testament of one piece being one of the best in its niche, considering it's sheer longevity, slow pacing and increasing frequency of breaks with anime not being able to fill the vacuum.

 

[Logiko]

This is not your real opinion, but something built through delusion that you make yourself believe in.

Sure lmao
Or I'm right and you would be wise to listen to me

Which means the Villain is shown to be incompetent. Which again confirms my point about the zero-tension story.

An incompetent villain does not equate to a lack of tension. Again, you are making a bad shortcut.

So how you even take this threat as someting dangerous or serios?

Because despite being incompetent, it's dangerous. That's the point.

Incompetence is one things, the tool to act is another. Imu will fall because of his flaws, but his power is real and scary.

The Vader twist increased the personal stakes and dramatic tension - the Nika twist decreased them

Yes. But a revelation doesn't always have to icnrease tension, sometimes it's a positive one. Especially when it's the end of a character arc when a revelation help the character to overcome their weakness. It is what happens with Luffy. The revelation of the Nika fruit is meant to help Luffy, not go against him just like Goku when he transformed into Super Sayan.

Now, the point is not about tension here, it's about the nature of a retcon. So let's stay on topic.

Nika’s retcon stripped the dramatic weight away and turned a brutal war into a Looney Tunes cartoon. That is a negative retcon, not a positive one.

I don't think you understand. There were no more dramatic weight, Luffy had lost and was killed. It was over. What Oda did is give a second chance to Luffy.

Once a character transforms, the result has to be in favor of the character or the transformation will be wasted. I don't think you dislike most of shonen transformations do ya ? Well spoiler : They stripp away the tension. That's is their POINT.

Transformation are not here to add tension, they are here to liberate us from it and increase the cartharsis. I'm sorry but what you are showing me is precisely the problem I have with this forum and internet communities of fans overall:

People think that because they heard a few storytelling terms and watch a lot of stories then therefore know a lot about the craft. Well again I'm sorry but no. You don't. At least not in this example as you describe the complete opposite of an understanding of what a good caratartic moment of transformation should be.

Look around reactors on the Gear 5, look at how people that are talking about their experience live are talking about it. You will see excitment, overjoy, mindblown, screams, people clapping, people laughing, people crying. Well I did all of that when I read the chapter. Simply because I was not looking for tension, I was looking at a cool and new freaking transformation of Luffy!!

You guyz think you are analyzing the stry but you are not. You forgot the prime principle of the domain of analysis : ENJOYING THE STORY FIRST.

This completely strip you from accessing to the emotionnal weight of stories. As such, most of the thing you are now reading or looking at seem mid when they even try to contradict your biases or expectations.

This is a basic beginners mistakes.

In the past, it was a behavior perpetuated by the pressure of studients who wanted to make movies or writting books and were considering popular work like blockbuster or best sellers as "too mainstream". They believed independant movies or little creator were necessarily "better" than big productions or big mainstream authors, creating big biases toward all big productions or popular releases.

This behavior, in my experience faded out overtime during the first 2 to 3 years of studying.. I learned to overcome that around first year when I was 16 since big productions were the reason I wanted to learn about it.

But now, there is youtube and everyone think they know everything about storytelling. Which is cool, it means the culture is accessible, but it creates biases and conflict and people who never learn to look beyond the first layer. And most of all, people are not humbled by the actual professionnals and the knowledge of their craft. So most people end up keeping this performative belief system.

Today, it's not about independant creators VS blockbuster, it's more between "serious stories" and "stories made for kid". But spoilers : It's the same shit. When people say "Luffy is just looney toon, it's just goofy, it's not serious enough" they are actually saying "I prefer my story to be edgy and only edgy and serious stories where the conflict is really visible are the right kind of stories, everything else is mid"

And you can check, the main argument for the OP fan hater here is : "One Piece is just for kids, it's not that deep" and the main problem people have with gear 5 is "it's not badass, it's just goofy, it's a joke"

Well trust me. It is.

It's that freaking deep.
So deep that the booktok and booktube, shifted their content to talk about One Piece in search of the answer to the question "how does Oda do it?"

ut if Luffy's victory over the World Government is entirely determined by his elite genes (Garp and Dragon)

There are no "elite gene" in One Piece.
Read again what I said because you obviously didn't do it correctly.

You are explicitly lowering your standards to protect your investment in a 1,300-episode(?) series. A story that treats its central mystery as a literal joke after decades of building global tension isn't 'legendary writing'—it’s an author running out of ideas and masking it as a subversion of tropes. Audiences have every right to demand a payoff that matches the scale of the buildup.

You are the only one seeing a joke (and perhaps Oda). Go check what I said the day the chapter dropped. I didn't laugh when I wrote these words.

And gear 5 is everything but a case of "running out of idea". The simple fact that you are still talking about it shows that it was not a "simple average idea". It was a challenging one maybe (for you), but not a simple one.

And if it happens last, ONE PIECE will be FORGOTTEN!

lol no

One Piece will be forgotten, in fact, in just 5 years!

lol no

 

[Konstantis]

This behavior, in my experience faded out overtime during the first 2 to 3 years of studying.. I learned to overcome that around first year when I was 16 since big productions were the reason I wanted to learn about it.

But now, there is youtube and everyone think they know everything about storytelling. Which is cool, it means the culture is accessible, but it creates biases and conflict and people who never learn to look beyond the first layer. And most of all, people are not humbled by the actual professionnals and the knowledge of their craft. So most people end up keeping this performative belief system.

So now you abandoned narrative-based logic and retreated into a highly condescending, emotional safe-haven.
You want to talk about personal traits? Funny. I was writing novels that people loved. Also, why are you trying to change the subject to personal? You lose all your arguing points?

es. But a revelation doesn't always have to icnrease tension, sometimes it's a positive one. Especially when it's the end of a character arc when a revelation help the character to overcome their weakness. It is what happens with Luffy. The revelation of the Nika fruit is meant to help Luffy, not go against him just like Goku when he transformed into Super Sayan.

Now, the point is not about tension here, it's about the nature of a retcon. So let's stay on topic.

Your Goku example completely defeats your own argument. When Goku turned Super Saiyan, it didn't strip away the dramatic weight it maximized it. Goku transformed out of sheer, agonizing grief over his best friend's brutal murder. The tone remained intensely serious, dark, and desperate. Goku didn't start bouncing around like a rubber ball, giggling and turning Frieza into a skipping rope while Namek exploded. The emotional weight of the battle was preserved. Gear 5 relieves whole tension, turning it into a circus.

An incompetent villain does not equate to a lack of tension. Again, you are making a bad shortcut.


Because despite being incompetent, it's dangerous. That's the point.

Incompetence is one things, the tool to act is another. Imu will fall because of his flaws, but his power is real and scary.

You are completely dodging the structural flaw. The issue isn't that the World Government has flaws; it's that Oda retroactively rewrote the lore in a way that makes their past actions entirely nonsensical. This is a government that committed genocide in Ohara just for looking at historical texts. They slaughtered pregnant women on a rumor of Roger's child.
So how could this RUTHLESS WG ignore Luffy? PLOT. Bad Writing, yes.

There are no "elite gene" in One Piece.
Read again what I said because you obviously didn't do it correctly.

Saying 'there are no elite genes in One Piece' is pure denial of the text. Luffy is the son of the World’s Most Wanted Criminal Dragon, the grandson of the Marine Hero, who possesses the literal 'Will of D,' and was born with the 1 million Conqueror's Haki, which characters in the series explicitly state is an inherited, untrainable trait.

Oda has spent decades pulling this bait-and-switch. Starting as a tale about an underdog working hard, only to reveal later that the hero was always genetically and prophetically predestined to be the chosen savior. Pretending One Piece didn't fall into the same 'Chosen One' trap and now, like Will of D. and COC wasn't enough he even makes Luffy into God Nika with a chosen one Fruit.

lol no

You can say 'lol no' all you want, but the anime/manga graveyard is full of massive, decade long titans that became culturally irrelevant the moment their endings failed to deliver. Look at Game of Thrones, Attack on Titan (before its recent revival). When a story requires a 1,300 episode investment, a mediocre payoff turns the entire journey into a barrier to entry for future generations. If the final reveal feels cheap, nobody in 5 or 10 years is going to recommend a 400-hour watch-time for a bad punchline.

You can keep trying to minimize my arguments by calling them 'edgy' or claiming I don't know how to 'enjoy the story first,' but hiding behind condescension just proves you have no actual text-based arguments left to defend these structural flaws. The contradictions are right there on the page.

Again, I'm not saying that the One Piece story cannot be fixed. In fact, I believe this is the very last moment, the last arc, where things could be fixed. But Brook's flashback already shows where this story will be going. And it's Oda's choice. He chose to ruin the whole story after timeskip, to turn the crew's adventure into a generic power fantasy.

Also, if you really want to invest your time, try investing it in the Bible:

Unlike One Piece, which introduces systemic corruption only to solve it with a generic fistfight, biblical narratives are explicitly about the weight of moral consequences and structural law. When a character in the Old or New Testament makes a choice, the narrative does not bail them out with sudden plot armor or a convenient "god transformation" (like Nika). The consequences are heavy, generational, and structurally absolute. It offers the ultimate contrast to a story where the stakes have become entirely flattened.

Also, the Bible also has prophesies, etc....you should just accept reality: One Piece is not real, the story is not good anymore, and needs to be fixed.

 

[Logiko]

So now you abandoned narrative-based logic and retreated into a highly condescending, emotional safe-haven.
You want to talk about personal traits? Funny. I was writing novels that people loved. Also, why are you trying to change the subject to personal? You lose all your arguing points?

No. Simply adding more context. You get the condescending because it's always the same problem. Because I stopped using rationality with hating One Piece fans to debate narrative or political argument long ago when I understood that it's was not about the craft and there wouldn't be any change anyway.

When Goku turned Super Saiyan, it didn't strip away the dramatic weight it maximized it

We were talking about dramatic tension which could be translated as the stakes, not the dramatic weight (it's a different thing). Indeed, the transformation of Goku didn't strip the dramatic weight, but the dramatic tension, or rather the stakes disappeared or diminished greatly to transform the fear and the tension of the audience into excitment or in the case of One Piece, excitment and laugh (and tears for some). In fact, the dramatic weight increased also with Gear 5. Without it, it would be meaningless.

What you are talking about are stakes or if you want to call it that, dramatic tension. You could even say that dramatic tension is partly converted into dramatic weight through transformations, if it's not the case, it will be a bad an meaningless transformation, which happens rarily.

You are completely dodging the structural flaw. The issue isn't that the World Government has flaws; it's that Oda retroactively rewrote the lore in a way that makes their past actions entirely nonsensical.

No. Not at all. You should watch some Andor, it will make you understand a few things about governmental structure design as oppressive machine but failing through inefficiency and incompetence.

The incompetence of an oppressive regime is not a character flaw, it's structural by design.

In 800 years, Imu and his minion have been putting a constant effort into the oppression of the world. In the process, they became sure of their own authority and dominion, Imu now seems convinced that he is the god of this world and destined to rule it for eternity. To keep this face, he also has to lower the agency of others and so, underestimate all of his ennemies.

This is why he was afraid of an entire population but not one person alone Robin is not a danger for Imu, this is why the fruit is not a danger for him. Because he got to accointed with his certitude and the system never failed him.

It's about to change, but not only because of Luffy. Mainly because of the flaws of the system he created.

What I'm explaining to you is characterization, it's how Imu thinks, he is someone who will understimate you as long as he believe that you will be alone or scared or powerless... simply because he probably knows what it feels to be alone. That's who he has been for 800 years.

You always need to look deeper in One Piece, without that reasonning, you will miss major reason why some characters are acting the way they do.

Saying 'there are no elite genes in One Piece' is pure denial of the text. Luffy is the son of the World’s Most Wanted Criminal Dragon, the grandson of the Marine Hero, who possesses the literal 'Will of D,' and was born with the 1 million Conqueror's Haki, which characters in the series explicitly state is an inherited, untrainable trait.

All D's have a checkered life, whether this is relative to their names, the universe or genetics we don't really know.

Now, the D's are not the reason behind their Haki, the situations they face because of their names are. And in this case, there could indeed be a genetic thing passed down that pushed people toward these checkered life, it's possible.

But you need to be coherent, if you do not like the fact that people having the D are naturally drawn to these situations, you should have quit One Piece long before the timeskip. I don't want to hear something about Gear 5 ruining things with genetics or the will when this was in the manga long before we even knew about Haki.

Oda has spent decades pulling this bait-and-switch. Starting as a tale about an underdog working hard, only to reveal later that the hero was always genetically and prophetically predestined to be the chosen savior. Pretending One Piece didn't fall into the same 'Chosen One' trap and now, like Will of D. and COC wasn't enough he even makes Luffy into God Nika with a chosen one Fruit.

As for Luffy he has always been special and he has ALWAYS been presented as someone special far from the realm of the "hard working underdog".

1. First Luffy is the literal incarnation of Hope. He is presented as the character that we must BELIEVE in. Which is the OPPOSITE of an underdog. Literally, Luffy saves people.

2. Second, Luffy was not presented as a real underdog until Crocodile appeared.

3. Luffy was FIRSTLY seen working on himself when he met Vivi. Up until this point, Luffy vibed with situation and didn't care about his own behavior or the state of his own strenght (at least after his departure). The second time he had to work hard through himself was depicted through crocodile when he invented ways to beat him. The third time (if you do not take the bar fight which was a lesson learned back in the dayz) was against Enel, then it was against Aokiji where he later demonstrated against Blueno the need to become stronger for the FIRST time for his friends after THINKING about a new technique he could come up with. (yes i'm emphasizing the "thinking" part because people never really took care to look at these panels for what they really were. Not training, THINKING, COMING UP with something. Something he wanted to TRY)

This is what I'm talking when I say "subtle hints at gear 5", "subtle preparations". Luffy does not train. He does not "work hard" outside of battles and timeskip. What he does is simply not giving up. Ever.

His techniques, his powers are mostly due to his brain, not his brawl. Luffy had to train for the first time since his youth because he lost to someone. Before that.. there are no data or too few to support this idea.

---

What happened - I believed - is that during One Piece, you read Naruto, like me, probably liking more Naruto than One Piece at first, like me too. And you projected some of the thematics of Naruto (or another manga) which are also the thematics of the meritocracy ("big work, big reward") into the story without reflecting about it.

And you are now projecting the flaws of Naruto (the sudden shift between work and destiny) on One Piece

Because when you tell me that "One Piece Started as a tale about an hard working underdog".. when we know that the D appeared as far as Drum as a mystery, that people started talking about Luffy has the reincarnation of Gol D Roger... or that characters spoke about destiny as early as CHAPTER 96

And when we also witnessed THREE chapters later a freaking LIGHTNING STRIKE coming down out of seemingly nowhere to save Luffy!!

Leaving characters wondering about god:

I'm sorry but I will tell you straight in the eyes something that you need to hear to get a wake up call:

You do not understand what you are talking about the story.

One Piece is not the story of an "hard working underdog" it is the tale of a legendary crew.

Probably written by someone long after the fact.

When a story requires a 1,300 episode investment, a mediocre payoff turns the entire journey into a barrier to entry for future generations.

No lol

It would be just one bad payoff. The rest is legendary. You do not see people stop reading or starting Naruto, right? Yet it has ended more than a DECADES ago with a sketchy narrative.

Well now imagine the same thing but with a far better story.

You can keep trying to minimize my arguments by calling them 'edgy' or claiming I don't know how to 'enjoy the story first,' but hiding behind condescension just proves you have no actual text-based arguments left to defend these structural flaws. The contradictions are right there on the page.

No. sometimes the best answer is this:

Put some damn music, take a bite and enjoy the fucking chapter in good conditions instead of worrying about the way the community will take it or analyzing each pages before you even have time to shed a tear.

But Brook's flashback already shows where this story will be going.

Where ?

I'm curious.

He chose to ruin the whole story after timeskip, to turn the crew's adventure into a generic power fantasy.

No, you simply changed. It's ok. You can drop the story now.

Also, if you really want to invest your time, try investing it in the Bible:

Yeah no, sorry.

systemic corruption only to solve it with a generic fistfight

omfg

biblical narratives are explicitly about the weight of moral consequences and structural law.

Sorry but One Piece is talking about ethics, not morals.

with sudden plot armor or a convenient "god transformation" (like Nika).

So the ressurection of the christ is fine for ya ? No plot armor here? Lol

One Piece is not real

Ok. I might surprise you. But I think I will agree for the first time with on with this specific argument.

Then again, if the One Piece is not real.. explain this:

 

[Cherry Hilk]

If the One Piece turns out to be the biggest dry turd ever some people would still gaslight themselves into thinking that it was the ultimate display of Oda’s genius. This is what happens when someone turns some story into a sheer projecton of their own subjectivity: descending into it they can see all the connections and build any kind of reasonings necessary to suit what they already decided beforehand to be the truth.​

 

[Konstantis]

If the One Piece turns out to be the biggest dry turd ever some people would still gaslight themselves into thinking that it was the ultimate display of Oda’s genius. This is what happens when someone turns some story into a sheer projecton of their own subjectivity: descending into it they can see all the connections and build any kind of reasonings necessary to suit what they already decided beforehand to be the truth.​

The inert part of the fan base will continue to spin their emotions, choosing to prioritize narrative over reality, filtering every new piece of information through a lens of confirmation bias to keep their emotional investment alive, no matter the facts.

It is the classic definition of the sunk-cost fallacy in action. When fans are deeply invested- whether in a franchise, a sports team, or a public figure the cognitive dissonance of accepting failure or change is too uncomfortable. Instead, they double down, creating their own self-sustaining loops of outrage, hyper-optimism, or victimhood.

But then reality will hit them in the head. But before that, they will act like the blind and not hear anything people.

 

[Blax Blah]

Wow this thread got pretty big

 

[Blax Blah]

Also, if you really want to invest your time, try investing it in the Bible:

Unlike One Piece, which introduces systemic corruption only to solve it with a generic fistfight, biblical narratives are explicitly about the weight of moral consequences and structural law. When a character in the Old or New Testament makes a choice, the narrative does not bail them out with sudden plot armor or a convenient "god transformation" (like Nika). The consequences are heavy, generational, and structurally absolute. It offers the ultimate contrast to a story where the stakes have become entirely flattened.

Also, the Bible also has prophesies, etc....you should just accept reality: One Piece is not real, the story is not good anymore, and needs to be fixed.

I mean, not to disagree that there are big and heavy consequences in the Bible, a man reaps what he sows

But there are also verses like saying God made all things work together for the good of his people

And it ends with eternal paradise






Plus the Bible doesn't reveal all of its info and story, for example God never answers Job as to why the stuff that happened to him, happened

And the Psalms talk about righteous people suffering, other people with nobody to confort them, etc


And the Bible encompasses all of human existence into its story and themes, it expands into talking about and explaining all of it



A lot of info is not learned by the readers, it's left up to God to reveal it in heaven if he wants to


Not even what paradise really has is revealed in the Bible, some of it is, but then there are verses like



1 Corinthians 2"9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, Neither have entered into the heart of man, The things which God hath prepared for them that love him.



The Bible is a realistic book, but that doesn't mean it's a negative book

 

[Logiko]

It is the classic definition of the sunk-cost fallacy in action. When fans are deeply invested- whether in a franchise, a sports team, or a public figure the cognitive dissonance of accepting failure or change is too uncomfortable. Instead, they double down, creating their own self-sustaining loops of outrage, hyper-optimism, or victimhood.

Really.. you are coping mate.

What you people are doing isprecisely this but in reverse. You don't even see that the people you are talking too do have their own critics of the manga. So focused into your self-absorbed hatred that you can't understand that people actually loves stuff.

Again let me spoil you something about reality: Your taste are conditionned by your experience and your social life.

This means that what you like or in this case, what you dislike is often not relative to the amount of understanding you have for a piece of art, but the amount of social pressure that will make you hate or love the craft of an author.

To be able to understand a story without it, you first need to do what I did first, meaning recaliber your own biases toward a piece of work and potentially equilibrate your taste to the reality of the work. For example, I considered One Piece to be perfect for a LONG time. Then, I had to force myself to be critical in order to to learn more about it. I can now freely criticize the story even more harshly and precisely than people like you if I need to.

It's human, we have biases and currently, you people are full of it, simply not in a positive way. Your current appreciation of the story (and I know it for a fact because I observed and analyzed the same pattern and argumentation for decades), is conditionned by various parameters from poor reading experience to a lack of understanding of the deepness of the story and it's thematics to a big underestimation of Oda as an author and a lot of vague certitudes about storytelling.

Learn to enjoy stories BEFORE trying to dissect them appart, maybe you will start to understand why One Piece is so popular and why, despite not liking the story, you are STILL talking about it.

 

[Owl Ki]

Hey, I want to start this dialogue

One Piece is sometimes poked fun at, that it's not on the level of Shakespeare and things like that, but imo, One Piece is by far one of the best pieces of literature created yet, far above Shakespeare.


Why?

Personally I haven't read Shakespeare, but at what other time in history was there a piece of literature that was so long running, so fun to talk about, with discussions happening over internet forums, several social medias, and youtube?



Other pieces of literature, like Shakespeare's writing, may or may not be better written, but the experience of One Piece is far far better than anything that came before it due to the age it's in.

Shakespeare's work fundamentally changed and shaped the English language forever on a scale no human before or since could even dream of.

Thousands of words are attributed as being popularized or invented by Shakespeare. Hundreds of phrases and idioms are attributed to him that we still commonly use to this very day over 400 years after Shakespeare lived.

Comparing the relevance of Oda to Shakespeare is like comparing an ant to a Titanosaur. It's unfair.

I have never seen anyone criticise Oda for not being on Shakespeare's level. Not being on Shakespeare's level is a given. No one is on Shakespeare's level.

What I have seen are people criticising fanatical individuals deluded enough to compare Oda to Shakespeare. That's completely different.

 

[Juanpiz]

Shakespeare's work fundamentally changed and shaped the English language forever on a scale no human before or since could even dream of.

Thousands of words are attributed as being popularized or invented by Shakespeare. Hundreds of phrases and idioms are attributed to him that we still commonly use to this very day over 400 years after Shakespeare lived.

Comparing the relevance of Oda to Shakespeare is like comparing an ant to a Titanosaur. It's unfair.

I have never seen anyone criticise Oda for not being on Shakespeare's level. Not being on Shakespeare's level is a given. No one is on Shakespeare's level.

What I have seen are people criticising fanatical individuals deluded enough to compare Oda to Shakespeare. That's completely different.

They Are Not Even from Same Culture,Genre or age lol

 

[Owl Ki]

They Are Not Even from Same Culture,Genre or age lol

So people who want to claim that Oda is greater than Shakespeare should compare how much Oda has influenced Japanese in comparison to how much Shakespeare has influenced English.

That matchup isn't coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb, it's coughing baby vs the Big Bang.

Shakespeare didn't merely influence genre. He surpassed genre entirely and fundamentally changed the English language forever. As for age, Shakespeare is still relevant. His works are studied from Secondary school to University, his plays are still the king of theatres even now and his stories are still being reimagined and remade into new stories in new settings with new contexts.

I do agree that people shouldn't compare Shakespeare and Oda, it's an utterly bizarre thing to do but if anyone is going to arbitrarily claim that Oda >>> Shakespeare on a cultural level then they really do need a reality check.

 

[Juanpiz]

Wh

So people who want to claim that Oda is greater than Shakespeare should compare how much Oda has influenced Japanese in comparison to how much Shakespeare has influenced English.

That matchup isn't coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb, it's coughing baby vs the Big Bang.

Shakespeare didn't merely influence genre. He surpassed genre entirely and fundamentally changed the English language forever. As for age, Shakespeare is still relevant. His works are studied from Secondary school to University, his plays are still the king of theatres even now and his stories are still being reimagined and remade into new stories in new settings with new contexts.

I do agree that people shouldn't compare Shakespeare and Oda, it's an utterly bizarre thing to do but if anyone is going to arbitrarily claim that Oda >>> Shakespeare on a cultural level then they really do need a reality check.

Whats their Obsession with Shakespeare anyway lol..they could use Toriyama,some Japanese Writer Like mishima yukio or heck Even Western Comic Artist Like barks

 

[Owl Ki]

Wh

Whats their Obsession with Shakespeare anyway lol..they could use Toriyama,some Japanese Writer Like mishima yukio or heck Even Western Comic Artist Like barks

See, that would make sense. Odastanis don't make sense though, so they choose a ridiculous matchup like Shakespeare.

There's a lot to enjoy about One Piece but for some reason, One Piece attracts a strange breed of manchild that wants One Piece to be the greatest thing ever. Not one of the greatest mangas ever (which would be reasonably arguable), not one of the greatest comics ever (much harder but still doable to argue), no they want to argue that One Piece surpasses all literature.

Who stands recognisably amongst the top of literary greats? Shakespeare, so that's who they go for.

Utterly delusional.

 

[Juanpiz]

See, that would make sense. Odastanis don't make sense though, so they choose a ridiculous matchup like Shakespeare.

There's a lot to enjoy about One Piece but for some reason, One Piece attracts a strange breed of manchild that wants One Piece to be the greatest thing ever. Not one of the greatest mangas ever (which would be reasonably arguable), not one of the greatest comics ever (much harder but still doable to argue), no they want to argue that One Piece surpasses all literature.

Who stands recognisably amongst the top of literary greats? Shakespeare, so that's who they go for.

Utterly delusional.

Waiting for Oda vs moliere or vs Goethe xD

 

[moreha9685]

They Are Not Even from Same Culture,Genre or age lol

The OP thought meat, the protein by definition, had carbs, so common knowledge isn't really his forte.

 

[Owl Ki]

The OP thought meat, the protein by definition, had carbs, so common knowledge isn't really his forte.

Come to think of it, the opening post is also the same guy that thought adults were a target demographic of shonen comics and kids weren't.

 

[Juanpiz]

The OP thought meat, the protein by definition, had carbs, so common knowledge isn't really his forte.

 

[Shikoku]

It's better than Dragon Ball maybe if we're pushing it

DB is pure nostalgia slop. Grossly overrated series

wouldn’t survive a day in the current market without the legacy benefits