Character Discussion Kaido does not have Oden PTSD weakness
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Luffy couldn't do shit and Doffy can't do shit either to Kaido as Doffys CoA level is same as Luffys
It literally shows that Kinnemon has insane CoA level but obviously that means fuck all when Doffy kicks him while he isn't even paying attention.
And Law? How do you know what happened between Kinnemon and Law? How do know Law didn't catch him from behind same way he caught Sanji?
Warlords are top fighters because Warlords have Mihawk, the strongest man in the world and Pirate King level character.
But that doesn't mean Doffy is that as well.
It literally shows that Kinnemon has insane CoA level but obviously that means fuck all when Doffy kicks him while he isn't even paying attention.
And Law? How do you know what happened between Kinnemon and Law? How do know Law didn't catch him from behind same way he caught Sanji?
Warlords are top fighters because Warlords have Mihawk, the strongest man in the world and Pirate King level character.
But that doesn't mean Doffy is that as well.
Advanced Armament is just a technique Bro.
You do know that The Hyogoro and the Boa sisters ans Sentomaru can hurt Kaido right? They have advanced armament.
And yet you agree Doflamingo can trash all the guys above right?
Yet Doflamingo doesn't gave advanced armament to cut Kaido.
It's just a technique
You do know that The Hyogoro and the Boa sisters ans Sentomaru can hurt Kaido right? They have advanced armament.
And yet you agree Doflamingo can trash all the guys above right?
Yet Doflamingo doesn't gave advanced armament to cut Kaido.
It's just a technique
@ShishioIsBack
Nope. Relax. Advanced armament is a technique. Not a measure of power.
The boa sisters can hurt Kaido dude. The fuckin boa sisters had advanced armament pre time skip when luffy and doffy did not
Nope. Relax. Advanced armament is a technique. Not a measure of power.
The boa sisters can hurt Kaido dude. The fuckin boa sisters had advanced armament pre time skip when luffy and doffy did not
Like many other characters, Kaido's reputation is exaggerated. Kinemon and Okiku were able to hurt Kaido because they used ACOA and it's similarto Oden's . That's Oda excuse for the Scabbards to damage Kaido. Nothing more, nothing less. It only shows how much damage Luffy can dish out in his rematch but Kaido's recovery time would likely be a problem still.
Ryou is not a technique, its a power statement.
Penetration Haki is a technique, it is manipulating Ryou in a certain way but not every form of Ryou would hurt Kaido.
You need certain level of Ryou to overpower Kaidos skin durability and wound them.
Luffy would never be able to do that hence why he needs a shortcut of just skipping that durability and targeting internal organs that are not very durable
Penetration Haki is a technique, it is manipulating Ryou in a certain way but not every form of Ryou would hurt Kaido.
You need certain level of Ryou to overpower Kaidos skin durability and wound them.
Luffy would never be able to do that hence why he needs a shortcut of just skipping that durability and targeting internal organs that are not very durable
Where are you getting this? That not every form of ryou would hurt kaido?
First of all what are these "forms" exactly?
If you are talking about AMOUNT OF RYOU then that's obvious.
One Ryou attack From Oden >>>> All the Ryou attacks from the scabbards combined >>> a Ryou Attack from Hyogoro >> a Ryou attack from Boa sisters.
Because Oden >>>> Scabbards >>> Hyogoro >>> Boa sisters
It's not that there are different "forms". It's just that stronger people do more damage.
The boa sisters can hurt kaido. It's extremely little damage. Like a paper cut. But it's still damage. Because Ryou is the same
First of all what are these "forms" exactly?
If you are talking about AMOUNT OF RYOU then that's obvious.
One Ryou attack From Oden >>>> All the Ryou attacks from the scabbards combined >>> a Ryou Attack from Hyogoro >> a Ryou attack from Boa sisters.
Because Oden >>>> Scabbards >>> Hyogoro >>> Boa sisters
It's not that there are different "forms". It's just that stronger people do more damage.
The boa sisters can hurt kaido. It's extremely little damage. Like a paper cut. But it's still damage. Because Ryou is the same
Ryuo is still "just" the name of Haki in Wa No, it is not the name for the penetrating Haki, it just means Haki.
Later Hyo mentions that outflowing Haki (which is first advanced form if you wanna call it that) is an application(synonym for technique really) of Ryou.
Penetrating Haki/Ryuo is even one step further
So it´s invisible CoA in your body/on skin < Koka < outside/barrier Haki < barrier penetrating Haki.
And it is the second advanced level of CoA you need if you want to hurt Kaidou physically (hax and elemental damage would still work i presume). That´s why when Kaidou says "you know the same Ryuo as Oden" to the scabbards, he means penetrating.
The question is, and we do not have yet an answer, is the amount of damage you can do with penetrating Haki only limited by the amount and strength of the Haki itself, or is it, just like normal CoA, a combination of your Haki level and your attack power otherwise.
I would suggest the latter.
Later Hyo mentions that outflowing Haki (which is first advanced form if you wanna call it that) is an application(synonym for technique really) of Ryou.
Penetrating Haki/Ryuo is even one step further
So it´s invisible CoA in your body/on skin < Koka < outside/barrier Haki < barrier penetrating Haki.
And it is the second advanced level of CoA you need if you want to hurt Kaidou physically (hax and elemental damage would still work i presume). That´s why when Kaidou says "you know the same Ryuo as Oden" to the scabbards, he means penetrating.
The question is, and we do not have yet an answer, is the amount of damage you can do with penetrating Haki only limited by the amount and strength of the Haki itself, or is it, just like normal CoA, a combination of your Haki level and your attack power otherwise.
I would suggest the latter.
Ryuo is still "just" the name of Haki in Wa No, it is not the name for the penetrating Haki, it just means Haki.
Later Hyo mentions that outflowing Haki (which is first advanced form if you wanna call it that) is an application(synonym for technique really) of Ryou.
Penetrating Haki/Ryuo is even one step further
So it´s invisible CoA in your body/on skin < Koka < outside/barrier Haki < barrier penetrating Haki.
And it is the second advanced level of CoA you need if you want to hurt Kaidou physically (hax and elemental damage would still work i presume). That´s why when Kaidou says "you know the same Ryuo as Oden" to the scabbards, he means penetrating.
The question is, and we do not have yet an answer, is the amount of damage you can do with penetrating Haki only limited by the amount and strength of the Haki itself, or is it, just like normal CoA, a combination of your Haki level and your attack power otherwise.
I would suggest the latter.
Later Hyo mentions that outflowing Haki (which is first advanced form if you wanna call it that) is an application(synonym for technique really) of Ryou.
Penetrating Haki/Ryuo is even one step further
So it´s invisible CoA in your body/on skin < Koka < outside/barrier Haki < barrier penetrating Haki.
And it is the second advanced level of CoA you need if you want to hurt Kaidou physically (hax and elemental damage would still work i presume). That´s why when Kaidou says "you know the same Ryuo as Oden" to the scabbards, he means penetrating.
The question is, and we do not have yet an answer, is the amount of damage you can do with penetrating Haki only limited by the amount and strength of the Haki itself, or is it, just like normal CoA, a combination of your Haki level and your attack power otherwise.
I would suggest the latter.
Just look at the tree scene with Luffy. On Luffy's side the outer bark of the tree is still there and completely undamaged, while the inside is completely blown away.
It's the complete opposite of what's happening now with Kaido.
They actually stab and cut THROUGH his skin/his body.
It's advCoA lvl1, simply haki infused sword swings and slashes.
And for the thread:
This is still so weird. If this is really not a) a inherited will thing or b) something along the lines of "feelings of revenge pushed their haki beyond their limits" - thing, then Kaido's hype just got "shattered" by "normal" advCoAlvl1 users and it's what he refers to with "Oden's haki".
A guy like Raisin is able to do exactly that btw aswell. I know well that it's a skill based concept and stronger characters can pull out higher levels of power with the same tech, BUT still, where do you draw the line there?
I start to think that perhaps we are all just in denial and that haki infused weapons are rarer than I/ we had thought.
Nearly all of the people who made use of it, came from three major factions: Wano, Amazon Lilly and the marines. Coincidence?
None of the BM pirates besides Raisin showed it for example, not even Kuri on Mogura. Hmm.. Someone like Vista for example has it confirmed, but unsurprisingly he's also specialized in swordsmanship.
It would do very well for Smoker, Vergo, Zoro, Boa Hancock, Sentomaru and Kinemon himself though. And it would support my idea that the AP from Zoro and something like Oni Take stems from superior haki usage and not primarily from physical stats.
And btw, pretty sure that in general all that "can't kill that thing hype" about Kaido is now meant for his awakened Form. Oda can't really just specify it, without including major Spoilers. No way that's all there is to Kaido.
It wasnt PTSD indeed. Oda just retconned Kaido's strenght because he looked too strong, first by having him being fodderized by Oden who was fighting 1000 enemies to get to him and who was about to defeat him fair and square and then by having Kinemon who begged Law and Luffy to join their alliance to casually injure him.
Now dude is fighting in the background Boro breathing because he is literally afraid like the coward he is to fight in close quarter.
The 1v1 bet is a lie, the suicide attempts are also a lie, his reputation is a lie, that man is a clown.
He is lucky a guy like Mihawk never wandered near Wano because we all know how it would have ended for him. With his head rolling on the floor.
Now dude is fighting in the background Boro breathing because he is literally afraid like the coward he is to fight in close quarter.
The 1v1 bet is a lie, the suicide attempts are also a lie, his reputation is a lie, that man is a clown.
He is lucky a guy like Mihawk never wandered near Wano because we all know how it would have ended for him. With his head rolling on the floor.
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The damage of penetrating Haki is not only limited to internal damage, you still have the external force playing a role.
Luffy´s tree scene only destroys the other side because his fist never touches and connects to the tree. It is different if you actually connect/touch the object/subject you actually attack. You can see that with the collars Luffy and Rayleigh removed, or Luffy destroying the steel door while training (can be seen here https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0955-009.png), or even Sabo who combined external pressure with internal penetrating CoA.
Plus like i said before, barrier CoA is more common than penetrating CoA (Hyo for example). Kaidou would not immediately go "you know the Ryuo of Oden" if it was something Hyo could use as well, and with Hyo probably other samurai.
Luffy´s tree scene only destroys the other side because his fist never touches and connects to the tree. It is different if you actually connect/touch the object/subject you actually attack. You can see that with the collars Luffy and Rayleigh removed, or Luffy destroying the steel door while training (can be seen here https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/One-Piece/0955-009.png), or even Sabo who combined external pressure with internal penetrating CoA.
Plus like i said before, barrier CoA is more common than penetrating CoA (Hyo for example). Kaidou would not immediately go "you know the Ryuo of Oden" if it was something Hyo could use as well, and with Hyo probably other samurai.
Ryuo is still "just" the name of Haki in Wa No, it is not the name for the penetrating Haki, it just means Haki.
Later Hyo mentions that outflowing Haki (which is first advanced form if you wanna call it that) is an application(synonym for technique really) of Ryou.
Penetrating Haki/Ryuo is even one step further
So it´s invisible CoA in your body/on skin < Koka < outside/barrier Haki < barrier penetrating Haki.
And it is the second advanced level of CoA you need if you want to hurt Kaidou physically (hax and elemental damage would still work i presume). That´s why when Kaidou says "you know the same Ryuo as Oden" to the scabbards, he means penetrating.
The question is, and we do not have yet an answer, is the amount of damage you can do with penetrating Haki only limited by the amount and strength of the Haki itself, or is it, just like normal CoA, a combination of your Haki level and your attack power otherwise.
I would suggest the latter.
Later Hyo mentions that outflowing Haki (which is first advanced form if you wanna call it that) is an application(synonym for technique really) of Ryou.
Penetrating Haki/Ryuo is even one step further
So it´s invisible CoA in your body/on skin < Koka < outside/barrier Haki < barrier penetrating Haki.
And it is the second advanced level of CoA you need if you want to hurt Kaidou physically (hax and elemental damage would still work i presume). That´s why when Kaidou says "you know the same Ryuo as Oden" to the scabbards, he means penetrating.
The question is, and we do not have yet an answer, is the amount of damage you can do with penetrating Haki only limited by the amount and strength of the Haki itself, or is it, just like normal CoA, a combination of your Haki level and your attack power otherwise.
I would suggest the latter.
Its FLOW of Haki
Yeah, if you get in touch with it, you still got the physical impact playing a role. That's not seen in the tree scene, but for example when they destroy those cuffs. It "pushes" into the outer durability of the object aswell, which results into something like the cuffs getting pressed together or stones getting brittle. I would have talked about it if mattered much, but it doesn't. The tree scene just shows the best, how the ability actually works, that's why I used it.
If you can stab through/penetrate the opposing durability in the first place, why would you use the internal destruction haki? You can already bypass the durability within the conventional way. You see, they are simply stabbing through him. And that's the point.
There is nothing to be seen from any internal explosion, Kinemon at first even has problems penetrating his skin, so we even see him actually trying to stab through it in that very moment, while nothing within Kaido's interior happens.
As a swordsman you'd use this tech (advCoAlvl2) if you are actually unable to cut through the opposing durability, if let's for example say, Kaido would have used haki on his upper body. If they then would not be able to stab him, they could use it in order to damage him from wihtin, while the impact of the sword simply gets blocked.
That's actually what happened when Sabo's dragon claw clashed with Burgess' armoured elbow. Difference is: objects =/= people. Kaido's skin will not break and his interiors will not be shattered. Luffy for example will probably just push in the area he hits, while the internal haki explosion does the actual job- he will not punch holes into Kaido. And that's really it.
BTW, no offense, but I think you were a little misguided by that "steel block"- scene. It's actually not a representation of how it actually works. He was still training and Hyou even said his KKG was a failure, cause he used too much brute force. It was legit more of a normal brute force punch just busting away that steel block. Additionally the hits before also only dented it the conventional way, probably goes to show that they were failed attempts aswell and Luffy still had to train for it.
If you can stab through/penetrate the opposing durability in the first place, why would you use the internal destruction haki? You can already bypass the durability within the conventional way. You see, they are simply stabbing through him. And that's the point.
There is nothing to be seen from any internal explosion, Kinemon at first even has problems penetrating his skin, so we even see him actually trying to stab through it in that very moment, while nothing within Kaido's interior happens.
As a swordsman you'd use this tech (advCoAlvl2) if you are actually unable to cut through the opposing durability, if let's for example say, Kaido would have used haki on his upper body. If they then would not be able to stab him, they could use it in order to damage him from wihtin, while the impact of the sword simply gets blocked.
That's actually what happened when Sabo's dragon claw clashed with Burgess' armoured elbow. Difference is: objects =/= people. Kaido's skin will not break and his interiors will not be shattered. Luffy for example will probably just push in the area he hits, while the internal haki explosion does the actual job- he will not punch holes into Kaido. And that's really it.
BTW, no offense, but I think you were a little misguided by that "steel block"- scene. It's actually not a representation of how it actually works. He was still training and Hyou even said his KKG was a failure, cause he used too much brute force. It was legit more of a normal brute force punch just busting away that steel block. Additionally the hits before also only dented it the conventional way, probably goes to show that they were failed attempts aswell and Luffy still had to train for it.