Chapter Discussion Official English Translation Of "Controversial" Part Of This Chapter

[nik87]

Hes shooting at Drake....Zoro's irrelevant ass isnt even brought up

So you literally cant see Zoro dodging bullets?

Are you so ignorant not to see that ?

Right back at you.

He's of interest this chapter because hes chasing Apoo along with Drake. Theres nothing strong that Zoro is showing. Apoo is fending both of them off by himself.

No, Apoo is running away from them and both Drake and Zoro are performing the same.

Why did you just dodge the trick question?
Is nr1 not mention because maybe he is not in the area where plague is happening? Just like son of Judge isnt?

Manga facts, Queen is only targeting Drake. Queen mention Zoro because he kept clinging on Drake, I mean he decide to team up with Drake himself. And the Queen shot everyone who was near Drake.

Queen targetted anyone in the battlefield because that's all it takes for virus to start going, he didnt need to hit either Drake or Zoro specifically. He will get them eventually when they get touched by others. Drake and Zoro are the strongest on that battlefield.

 

[Akuma_Law]

Lol I can't tell honestly if Z fans actually see the real issue here
The way it was played out in that scene Queen thinks Sanji is number 2 and Zoro is 3 in the crew
Is that why King went after him earlier in the raid when he saved Momonusuke :yasu:

 

[vikas]

Is that why King went after him earlier in the raid when he saved Momonusuke :yasu:

he did not go after him.

 

[nik87]

Lol I can't tell honestly if Z fans actually see the real issue here
The way it was played out in that scene Queen thinks DRAKE is number 2 and Zoro is 3
Is that why King went after him earlier in the raid when he saved Momonusuke :yasu:

No, we are completely aware of that.

 

[Akuma_Law]

he did not go after him.

Really? I guess I saw that clash in my dreams then

No, we are completely aware of that.

 

[Jackteo]

Now, to the trick question that @Jackteo mentioned. Who is their number 1 that needs to be taken out and why Queen didnt mention him?

I get it now, the 1st is Sanji. Queen knows he can go invisible and he just assumed that he was fighting there
No wonder he is so pissed

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

And what arguments value was diminished by his "joke"? SO yeah no, this is just a generalization fallacy, not ad hominem. he didnt sideline any actual argument to attack someones character. and if what he said actually applies to some people, then they would be having double standards?!

The argument diminished by this "joke" is any argument that a Sanji fan (or anybody accused of such) may bring up regarding this translation because of their questioned credibility after poisoning the well (a type of ad hominem fallacy, I repeat) by alluding to their double standards as an homogeneous group. He's caricaturing that group as a whole in a way that directly reduces the integrity of its (or alleged) members basing on personal characteristics. Why do you think he felt like commenting precisely here about how Sanji fans supposedly went from praising the official translation to doubting it? Well, because by using the "O-official translations make mistakes!" mock as part of a double standard criticism he's diminishing the credibility of a supposed Sanji fan rightfully questioning the accuracy of this piece of official translation (since therefore it's suggested to not be a valid point of debate but a biased reaction linked to a feud with Zoro fans). So he's attacking both the original poster, posters that participated before him, and those who will comment after by poisoning the well whether they are truly hypocrites or not.

The fallacy of the faulty generalization can be used to build an ad hominem, by the way, so they aren't excluding (and it's what is happening here, from my point of view).

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

Why fuck do queen’s words matter. Queen saw the bounty posters saw the small difference in bounty between them and decided that they Luffy’s top 2 guys and close in strength.

 

[mly90]

Lol I can't tell honestly if Z fans actually see the real issue here
The way it was played out in that scene Queen thinks Sanji is number 2 and Zoro is 3 in the crew
Is that why King went after him earlier in the raid when he saved Momonusuke :yasu:

King did not care that much about him and if anything it was sanji who went after king that would be more accurate

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

 

[Zenos7]

The argument diminished by this "joke" is any argument that a Sanji fan may bring up regarding this translation because of the questioned credibility after poisoning the well (a type of ad hominem fallacy, I repeat) by alluding to their double standards as an homogeneous group. He's caricaturing that group as a whole in a way that directly reduces the integrity of its (or alleged) members. Why do you think he felt like commenting precisely here about how Sanji fans supposedly went from praising the official translation to doubting it? Well, because by using the "O-official translations make mistakes!" mock as part of a double standard criticism he's diminishing the credibility of a supposed Sanji fan rightfully questioning the accuracy of this piece of official translation (since therefore it's suggested to not be a valid point of debate but a biased reaction linked to a feud with Zoro fans). So he's attacking both the original poster, posters that participated before him, and those who will comment after by poisoning the well whether they are truly hypocrites or not.

The fallacy of the faulty generalization can be used to build an ad hominem, by the way, so they aren't excluding (and it's what is happening here).

your essay really didnt add anything to our conversation which i didnt already address?!

pointing out double standards is no ad hominem. generalizing people is not ad hominem. Now whether his generalization applies to you or not, thats not for me to decide. But even though he is generalizing people, he is still pointing out a double standard and therefore flaw in argumentation, this is clearly not ad hominem lol.

 

[Albino 👑]

All i know

1. Drake and zoro aren't the 2nd and 3rd strongest members of the alliance at all and queen has less than no reason to think they are
2. Queen can fodderize drake apoo and zoro solo at least
3. He has zoro and sanjis bounty in his hands and they just so happens to be luffys top 2 men especially if he doesn't know about jinbe officially joining

Also viz absolutely butchered franky line when he hit big mom with the bike. It was supposed to be a call back to his flower remark on punk hazard and they messed it up

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

Luffy eating chopper

 

[Zenos7]

Drake and zoro aren't the 2nd and 3rd strongest members of the alliance at all and queen has less than no reason to think they are

depends on whether he considers (law)/kid to be part of the alliance. kid could be acting independently for all queen knows. (also, does queen know about marco yet?)

Also viz absolutely butchered franky line when he hit big mom with the bike. It was supposed to be a call back to his flower remark on punk hazard and they messed it up

i thought it was a reference to a rock song?

 

[Chrono]

So you literally cant see Zoro dodging bullets?

Are we not talking about people Queen is targetting not people hes shooting at.

And using laughing emotes doesnt make you more right. Highly cringy that you use them for every point.

No, Apoo is running away from them and both Drake and Zoro are performing the same.

Why did you just dodge the trick question?
Is nr1 not mention because maybe he is not in the area where plague is happening? Just like son of Judge isnt?

Drake's performance doesnt matter cause we already know Queen was after him.

Because Queen isnt looking number 1. Number 1 is obviously Luffy....and he isnt looking at Luffy's bounty poster.

 

[Albino 👑]

Also how queen or anybody in general gonna see zoro and drake tryna tag team apoo and think it hypes them. Or even hypes them to the point of being second and third strongest of the alliance

Same alliance with

1. Luffy
2. Law
3. Kid
4. Marco
5. Jinbe
6. Yamato

And hell sanji too cause so far hes looked better than the both of them with the higher bounty

 

[Chrono]

depends on whether he considers (law)/kid to be part of the alliance. kid could be acting independently for all queen knows. (also, does queen know about marco yet?)

He knows Law is here. And he knows Law's in an allaince with Luffy.

And yes he knows Marco is here.

 

[Zenos7]

He knows Law is here. And he knows Law's in an allaince with Luffy.

And yes he knows Marco is here.

fair enoguh then :cheers:

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

your essay really didnt add anything to our conversation which i didnt already address?!

pointing out double standards is no ad hominem. generalizing people is not ad hominem. Now whether his generalization applies to you or not, thats not for me to decide. But even though he is generalizing people, he is still pointing out a double standard and therefore flaw in argumentation, this is clearly not ad hominem lol.

Pointing out double standards can also be an ad hominem fallacy called tu quoque even when they are true if, like in this case, they are used to diminish a position (the possibility of the official English translation being wrong).

Generalizing people can be used as a basis for an ad hominem because those aren't excluding arguments.

The generalization doesn't need to truly apply to the specific individual for it to work as an ad hominem fallacy, that's part of the ad hominem fallacies of poisoning the well and guilt by association. So it isn't about whether it applies to me or not as an individual.

His pointing of a double standard is void and an ad hominem fallacy because, first, he lacks actual knowledge on whether the people commenting here are really hypocritical; and second, by alluding to a double standard specifically involving official translations he's indeed diminishing any argument the "Sanji fans" may propose regarding this particular piece of official translation. By bringing that up he's attacking the validity of the original post and its defenders because they allegedly belong to a group that, by virtue of their personal characteristics, can't be credited as credible in their points.

In other words: "Sanji fans are hypocrites when it comes to official translations because of their biases; you are a Sanji fan (am I?), therefore your doubts about this official translation shouldn't be taken into account since you are following your bias". As I said, he's poisoning the well at least, and that's indeed an ad hominem.

 

[nik87]

Are we not talking about people Queen is targetting not people hes shooting at.
And using laughing emotes doesnt make you more right. Highly cringy that you use them for every point.

Queen is targetting Drake while shooting at Zoro and all others?
Nothing cringe about it, it's literally my reaction to your every post, lmao.

Drake's performance doesnt matter cause we already know Queen was after him.
Because Queen isnt looking number 1. Number 1 is obviously Luffy....and he isnt looking at Luffy's bounty poster.

He isnt mentioning Luffy because he isnt in that battlefield, lmao.
Why would he mention Sanji while not mentioning Luffy, lmao.