Others Role Creation

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Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
#21
This gets into the territory of creating setups, which is a whole other conversation, but generally for this, as Reborn stated, you see how each role interacts with one another. If the interactions breaks the game then you'll have to change some things. You will still have to follow general hosting rules too. Mafia and Harmful indies should be the most powerful roles in the game. Town should be weaker even if each individual role is overpowered.
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Sure, feel free to create your own Whitebeard role or any other character you want in here and I'll go over it.
Assumption of setup - Marineford arc with WB as mafia.

Whitebeard

[Passive - Old & Sick] - you are way beyond your prime. Thus, with each passing day your haki and endurance will deteriorate.

Thus, after two cycle, you would be able to use only one ability at a time. After, four cycles you will start losing one ability every one cycle. However, even if you lose all the abilties then also you can perform faction kill.

[Active - World's Strongest Man] - Despite being old, You are a man who sits closest to pirate king throne. Thus, regular attacks won't have any effect on you.

[Active - Kaishin] - You are Gura Gura No mi user. This ability allows you to crack the air and send shockwaves towards your target by passing his defense and will make them role crush for one cycle.

[Active - The man who shakes the world] - You can cause tilting/ shifting of an area throwing people off their feet. Thus, by activating this ability you can swap two players with each other.

[Active - Shingen no ichigeki] - by forming vibrations in your fist you can deal super killing blow to your opponent bypassing all immunities. [ 2- shot]
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The passive one is the example of the idea I often add whenever I create roles.
 
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Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#22
Thanks for the advice Drago and amazing guide.

I actually sent AL my characrer setup 30 minutes later he opened the signups thread with his intro post lol.
 

EkkoLoJinx

How far I'll go...
#23
yo @Dragomir that guide is actually simple and short yet right to the point lmao. thanks fam

can I maybe post a bit in depth balancing guide specifically for role madness roles? could help with players balancing their roles and help eliminate possible loopholes and broken interactions
 
D

Dragomir

#24
Assumption of setup - Marineford arc with WB as mafia.

Whitebeard

[Passive - Old & Sick] - you are way beyond your prime. Thus, with each passing day your haki and endurance will deteriorate.

Thus, after two cycle, you would be able to use only one ability at a time. After, four cycles you will start losing one ability every one cycle. However, even if you lose all the abilties then also you can perform faction kill.

[Active - World's Strongest Man] - Despite being old, You are a man who sits closest to pirate king throne. Thus, regular attacks won't have any effect on you.

[Active - Kaishin] - You are Gura Gura No mi user. This ability allows you to crack the air and send shockwaves towards your target by passing his defense and will make them role crush for one cycle.

[Active - The man who shakes the world] - You can cause tilting/ shifting of an area throwing people off their feet. Thus, by activating this ability you can swap two players with each other.

[Active - Shingen no ichigeki] - by forming vibrations in your fist you can deal super killing blow to your opponent bypassing all immunities. [ 2- shot]
Post automatically merged:

The passive one is the example of the idea I often add whenever I create roles.
This is a solid rough draft! I'd change a couple of things. The Old & Sick passive is a bit too harsh for a Mafia to have. It'd work for Town Whitebeard, but him losing an ability is a hard blow even if it starts after four cycles. I'd change it to just only able to use one ability at a time and it to make that from the beginning of the game.

World's Strongest Man is a passive ability, not an active one. Since Whitebeard is Mafia, I'd buff up Kaishin to him role crushing a player for two cycles, not just one. This is also because of the Old & Sick passive ability hindering him a lot.

Shingen no Ichigeku should be changed to "Enraged" and as a conditional active. If one of his Mafia members die, Whitebeard can perform the faction kill as a super-kill. 1-shot.

I'd also add this ability:

[Passive - Emperor of the Seas] You are one of the Four Emperors that rule the New World, as such your prestige allows you to get away with things that others may not. You investigate innocent to cops.
yo @Dragomir that guide is actually simple and short yet right to the point lmao. thanks fam

can I maybe post a bit in depth balancing guide specifically for role madness roles? could help with players balancing their roles and help eliminate possible loopholes and broken interactions
Sure, go ahead bro!
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
#25
This is a solid rough draft! I'd change a couple of things. The Old & Sick passive is a bit too harsh for a Mafia to have. It'd work for Town Whitebeard, but him losing an ability is a hard blow even if it starts after four cycles. I'd change it to just only able to use one ability at a time and it to make that from the beginning of the game.

World's Strongest Man is a passive ability, not an active one. Since Whitebeard is Mafia, I'd buff up Kaishin to him role crushing a player for two cycles, not just one. This is also because of the Old & Sick passive ability hindering him a lot.

Shingen no Ichigeku should be changed to "Enraged" and as a conditional active. If one of his Mafia members die, Whitebeard can perform the faction kill as a super-kill. 1-shot.

I'd also add this ability:

[Passive - Emperor of the Seas] You are one of the Four Emperors that rule the New World, as such your prestige allows you to get away with things that others may not. You investigate innocent to cops.

Sure, go ahead bro!
Nice!! Thanks for the suggestion✌️
 

EkkoLoJinx

How far I'll go...
#26
Some Role creation and Balancing Insights

Well to start with, since this a setup where everybody makes their own role and alignment, there is no way for us to determine which roles are needed and which aren't. For example you could end up with 6 town vigs but no doctors or cops (totally could see that happening lmao). This would be up to the host to determine and notify us if certain abilities should be removed or added, but from our perspective, we should try to balance our role to perform duties as follows depending on the alignment. Passives will be covered at the end.

Town Roles:

A 20 player game should have roughly about:
2 doctor/protection roles,
1 cop role (Alignment cop)
2 watchers/trackers. (maybe a messager or a 1 shot mason, but not required)
2 roleblockers,
1 vig (or 2 conditional night/even vigs),
2 vote manipulators (prefer to not give town lynch stoppers)
1 redirector/bus driver
1 rolecrusher/equalizer (used to conditionally break super bullet proofs or Godfather/SK immunities)
1 shot anti-janitor (could be incorporated in another role, has a 1 shot that reveals a janitored player role)

This already takes care of about 14 out of 20 players. (town size).

When you are creating a town role, make sure you make it clear which of the above categories you are covering. Say a character like town Itachi could work as a roleblocker with his Tsukuyomi, and also a tracker with Sharingan. Conditionally he could also protect himself or someone else with Susano or rolecrush someone with Sword of Tutsuka.

Try to not go overboard and break a character by making him do more than 3 categories at will. If you are giving someone 3 categories make sure there is some sort of twist to limit how he can use these categories. For example in the case of Itachi, you could make it such that when he activates Susano he is able to protect and rolecrush, but loses his tracker and roleblock abilities. For other characters you can make them cycle between their abilities or simply give them a 1 shot from each category, but try to not go above 4 categories at all costs or else your town character becomes super over loaded for this game size.

Other than that, town should have a couple (1 or 2) town leader characters that are treated as powerful or super roles granting them the ability to pierce through most defenses and preventing them from being permanently amputated or rolecrushed (immune to being permanently vanilla'ed). If they have bulletproofs, it should only be 1 or 2 shots. Who gets to be a power or super role should be up to the host to decide.

Mafia Roles:

A 20 player game should have roughly about:
1 mafia godfather
1 mafia rolecop
1 mafia bus driver/redirector/blinder
1 mafia support (limited shots janitor/doctor/kill amplifier/vote stealer)

This should take care of 4 out of 20 players and will be harder to balance since you have no idea what other roles did other players create, so try your best with the help of the host to develop a solid primary category for you (ex: role cop) but then also have limited shots from one other category and maybe a conditional shot for even another category.

An example of scum Itachi here would be to give his Sharingan a rolecop, which would also allow him take control of that player the following night. You could also make his Susano a 1 shot ability that houses all his scummates inside of it and protects them for one cycle. And if you wanna get creative you can incorporate Izanami within certain limits to delay a player's actions by a cycle or make their actions target themselves, etc... You get the idea.

A godfather should always have some sort of bullet proof vest and a way to fool alignment cops and scan innocent under investigations. Meanwhile role/ability cops should naturally fail on them but trackers and watchers should still work. Mason could or could not work as the host wishes. A godfather could also have a conditional boost ability if 1 or 2 of his scummates die. Such ability could maybe allow him to perform conditional super-kills, or allow him to take control of the night once, or even permanently role crush a player. When scum only have 1 player alive, that player's kills should all become super kills or atleast destroy the enemy's defenses per shot. This is to allow the last mafia to not be permanenly stalled by a bulletproof target.

Scum bus driver should have an unlimited shots night ability that allows him to bus drive 2 targets for a cycle. There should only be one of these per scum team, however there could be a blind ability that would make your target's actions redirect to random. A mafia support could have 1 shot janitor kill, 1 shot janitor lynch, and maybe a 1 shot amp kill, making one of his scummates get access to super kill for a night. Could also have an unlimited shots night protect ability if his other scummates don't have it, and could get access to vote stealing/manipulating ability that could reduce a town player vote power by 1 for example or doubles one of his scummates vote power. Some of these abilities could even be usable at multiple targets at once within host limits. Avoid adding a lynch stopper or make it a conditional 1 shot if you really want to add one. Maybe only stops a lynch when a player only has 4 votes or less on him but doesn't work if they have more than 4 votes. You get the idea.

Either way when designing a scum role, make sure you choose a primary defining category for your character and give your self unlimited shots in that category. (ex: unlimited role cop, bus drives, protects, blinds, or vote manipulation ability). But please try to maintain yourself to 1 unlimited shot ability per scum role. The other abilities can be from the other categories as outlined and can have 1 to 3 shots as needed. You could really be as creative as you want within host limits of course. If you feel your role does too much, consider adding a twist or conditions to limit your abilities.

Independent Roles:

A 20 player game should have roughly about:
1 non-hostile independent (head hunter, or anti specific mafia role ex: anti-godfather, or simply a survivor, etc..)
1 hostile independent (serial killer or arsonist)
0~1 jester

This takes care of the last 2 players (MAYBE 3 but that's a bit of a stretch for a 20 player games). Each independent is treated very differently from the other but they do have one thing in common, they work alone and have their own solo goal. They could buddy with other players as needed to achieve that goal.

Non-Hostile Independents: When designing a non-hostile independent, first start by determining what is your win con and what are you trying to achieve here. Is it to kill a specific mafia role? or survive till the end? or is it to head hunt or protect a specific target.

When creating an anti-mafia or anti-godfather role make sure to give them a 1 shot ability to find clues about the godfather, and/or 1 shot super-kill that only works vs the godfather or which ever role they are supposed to kill. They could occasionally have trackers/watchers and a 1 shot bulletproof.

A head hunter is a non-hostile indie that is given a target by the host at the start of the game and it is their duty to get that target lynched to win the game, regardless of that target's alignment. If that target survives till the end of the game the head hunter loses, and if that target dies in any other way (other than lynch) then the head hunter simply becomes a regular townie and wins by eliminating all mafia. When designing a head hunter make sure to give him some sort of tracker/watcher abilities or messaging abilities to try their best and get their target lynched. You do not need kill shots on a head hunter, and you may need a 1 shot bulletproof, and a conditional super-bulletproof that only works vs your lynch target.

A survivor is a non-hostile independent that has to survive till the end of the game and can win with both town or mafia. This role should typically be given 1 shot bullet proof, and a 1 shot ability to hide behind a player or redirect abilities from yourself to someone else. They can also be given a messaging ability and they have the freedom to take the risk and claim survivor as they like. To make the role more interesting, it is also recommended to add incentive for others to kill the survivor. For example you can reward your killer with a 1 shot super-kill or a 1 shot super-bulletproof. This reward should be announced by the host to the thread.

Hostile Independents: When designing a hostile independent, you should first identify what kind of hostile you are. A serial killer (SK) or an arsonist kind. Serial killers have consistent regular night kills and occasionally possess a super-kill. Arsonists do take their time first and set up the field then perform a double of triple kill all at once.

Regardless of which type of hostile you are designing. You need to have the same protections as a mafia godfather (a bulletproof vest and scan innocent to alignment cops. Role/Ability cops or masons could fail or work on you as the host wishes. Watchers and Trackers should almost always work though.

Other than that, a hostile independent should always have methods to not be stalled infinitely by a bulletproof target. This could be fixed by making it such that if you fail a kill on a target, you will crush their armor for next cycle or permanently. This way the hostile independent can kill any role in the game with at most 2 shots. The hostile independent could occasionally also be granted access to a 1 shot janitor kill, or 1 shot day kill, or 1 shot convoluted double kill or 1 shot super-kill. These could all be conditional and balanced accordingly, or simply only available after day 3 or so on.

Remember that as the hostile independent, you do not need to wipe out all the players by yourself. In reality you will only kill about 4 players the entire game if you are to win, and you are bound to fail some kills. So just cool yourself off and do not create a mass murder role. Bunch of simple consistent or set up kills should do more than enough.

Jesters: These are roles that win when they get lynched. You really do not need any day or night abilities for this one but you can have fun with some trackers/watchers or messaging abilities. Just come and troll on the thread and hope you are lynched. However, the host should make sure to notify the players that a jester exists in the game before hand.

Passives:

Passives are much stronger than active abilities since they are always on without you needing to do anything about them. For town roles, only the super roles should really have access to 1 shot bulletproofs. Maybe at most 2 town roles should be allowed to have that, a super role and a body guard role. For mafia only the godfather has one and it could be limited or infinite shots that block the first lethal ability each night. A survivor could be allowed access to 1 shot bulletproof and a hostile independent follows similarly to the godfather more or less.

Some other common passives are ones that makes your abilities immune to roleblocks, or make you immune to redirections, blinds or bus drives, or make your abilities break your target's protections. Some passives are also targeted toward making you immune to role/ability cops or scan innocent to alignment cops, or prevent your character from being controlled by other players. Some other passives also give you +1 vote power or are a combination of 2 or more passives mashed together.

Other occasional passives could include some sort of a charge system that your characters abilities rely on. Something like souls collected per player dead, or charges that you use to protect other players with, or number of people you investigate or put gas on, etc... These would probably interact with your other active abilities so you need to do a guesstimate in your head and figure out how much of these charges would you roughly obtain per cycle, and how much would that affect your ability usage. If you find you can use your charges too much consider making them harder to obtain or increase their costs.

Final Thoughts:

There is really no right or wrong way to make your roles, specially in a game where you do not see the other roles other players make. Just have fun and be creative with it, however try to stay within limits and boundaries to keep a healthy gameplay and stop too much chaos with 6 vigs running around lol.
 
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D

Dragomir

#27
@Alibaba don't think I can create 3 whole roles all tonight so I'll just create a pro-scum indie for you.

Context
The character is Lelouch Lamperouge from Code Geass. The game is a manga-mashup multiball with 2 Mafia teams. Manga mashup means any character from the list or any manga. Similar to what Al is doing for his game but with anime instead.

Wincon
With any indie you create, you first want to create their wincon. The wincon will dictate how the abilities will be made as they'll be done to help achieve that said wincon. Looking at Lelouch wincons like serial killer, cult, and survivor don't fit. So you gotta create your own. To do this, you gotta look at Lelouch's purpose in his manga, Code Geass. His goal in CG was to liberate the oppressed Japanese people from the Brittania Empire and through doing such, he became the leader of a resistance squad undercover as Zero.

So looking at this, you can brainstorm something about him joining the Mafia undercover and helping them take over Town. That's probably as close as you can get to his goal in CG. Since it's a multiball game, you can make it where he picks which Mafia team to help.

Abilities
With that wincon in mind, let's look at his abilities next. Lelouch has a power known as Geass that allows him to control people until their order is completed. He can't control the same person more than once and his Geass will increase in power over time going from one eye to two eyes, then it became unable to be turned off. Knowing that you can easily create an ability that redirects actions(or straight up controls individual abilities) and gets more unstable with each usage of it.

The next thing to look at is Lelouch's undercover role, Zero. He uses this to communicate with the Black Knights without them finding his true face. So the whole point is basically to be used to communicate and broadcast messages to the people in Japan discreetly. The abilities surrounding Zero should be communicative ones. Say, making a message in your role pm to have the host broadcast it in the game-thread as Zero. Or better yet, have the player create a dupe or sock puppet account named Zero where they can communicate in the game-thread and in the Mafia chat. This is similar to the L and Kira role Noctis made for his Death Note game.

Now, those two can't just be the only abilities. Lelouch needs to be a decently strong role so he can help lead the Mafia to victory. Since he operates like the Mafia's new Godfather now, you can have investigate innocent. Now, if the Mafia already has a Godfather, don't remove that from them by giving it to Lelouch. It can be a special case where a Mafia team has 2 Godfathers.

Badabing, badaboom. Here is the role:


You are Lelouch Lamperouge!

[Passive - ZERO] You have created an icon out of yourself to operate undercover against Town. This icon is now your sock puppet account to be used for this game. Using this sock puppet account, you may communicate to Town in the game-thread for a total of 5 posts per day phase. As you will not be revealed in the Mafia team's chat which you choose, you may use this sock puppet account to communicate to them instead. Zero will be added to their chat.

[Active - Lelouch vi Britannia Commands You!] Activate your Geass in your left and target a player during the day phase. You will learn that player's full role and be able to control their actions the following night however way you see fit. Can only control one ability at a time that night. The player will be unable to be controlled for the remainder of the game.

Your Geass grows more and more unstable every time that you use it. Becoming completely uncontrollable at its full power. After 3 uses of your Geass, it will dominate both of your eyes, activating without your own will. During the day phase you will have contacts on to hide your Geass, during the night, you will not. As a result, anytime a player visits you at night, their action will be randomly redirected elsewhere. This counts for both Mafia and Town. You will not learn their full role. Super-kills bypass will this.

[Passive - Made Man] After taking over the Mafia as Zero, you will need to make a name for yourself. Participate in two mislynches and you will then become a proven leader for the Mafia team, gaining their trust. You will investigate innocent and be immune to lie detects from that point onwards.

Wincon: Take over Mafia team from the options: X and Y. You must then take this team to victory against Town.
 

Mashiro Blue

𝓦𝓲𝓼𝓱 𝓾𝓹𝓸𝓷 𝓪 𝓼𝓱𝓸𝓸𝓽𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓼𝓽𝓪𝓻 ✰
#28
Or
@Alibaba don't think I can create 3 whole roles all tonight so I'll just create a pro-scum indie for you.

Context
The character is Lelouch Lamperouge from Code Geass. The game is a manga-mashup multiball with 2 Mafia teams. Manga mashup means any character from the list or any manga. Similar to what Al is doing for his game but with anime instead.

Wincon
With any indie you create, you first want to create their wincon. The wincon will dictate how the abilities will be made as they'll be done to help achieve that said wincon. Looking at Lelouch wincons like serial killer, cult, and survivor don't fit. So you gotta create your own. To do this, you gotta look at Lelouch's purpose in his manga, Code Geass. His goal in CG was to liberate the oppressed Japanese people from the Brittania Empire and through doing such, he became the leader of a resistance squad undercover as Zero.

So looking at this, you can brainstorm something about him joining the Mafia undercover and helping them take over Town. That's probably as close as you can get to his goal in CG. Since it's a multiball game, you can make it where he picks which Mafia team to help.

Abilities
With that wincon in mind, let's look at his abilities next. Lelouch has a power known as Geass that allows him to control people until their order is completed. He can't control the same person more than once and his Geass will increase in power over time going from one eye to two eyes, then it became unable to be turned off. Knowing that you can easily create an ability that redirects actions(or straight up controls individual abilities) and gets more unstable with each usage of it.

The next thing to look at is Lelouch's undercover role, Zero. He uses this to communicate with the Black Knights without them finding his true face. So the whole point is basically to be used to communicate and broadcast messages to the people in Japan discreetly. The abilities surrounding Zero should be communicative ones. Say, making a message in your role pm to have the host broadcast it in the game-thread as Zero. Or better yet, have the player create a dupe or sock puppet account named Zero where they can communicate in the game-thread and in the Mafia chat. This is similar to the L and Kira role Noctis made for his Death Note game.

Now, those two can't just be the only abilities. Lelouch needs to be a decently strong role so he can help lead the Mafia to victory. Since he operates like the Mafia's new Godfather now, you can have investigate innocent. Now, if the Mafia already has a Godfather, don't remove that from them by giving it to Lelouch. It can be a special case where a Mafia team has 2 Godfathers.

Badabing, badaboom. Here is the role:
When I asked you to show it I didn't know you were goingto make them from scratch.

Thanks for your hard work


This is actually really helpful. I guess I's starting to understand how to create roles better.

Powerwise something like Indie > Mafia > Town.

Abilities should be geared to help achieve wincon and wincon should resemble canon as much as possible.

I really like the creativity in making roles. Amazing


When you have the time for the other two. I really appreciate it.
 
D

Dragomir

#29

You are Zara!
[Passive - All The Smoke] - Zara's a whole wildfire and he's bringing all the smoke and wants all the smoke. In the game thread, Zara must shit-talk a different player in each post he makes. He must trash talk all the alive players at least once. If a player gets riled up and retorts, Zara will be immune to their actions the following night.

[Passive - Lara] - Wherever there is Zara, Lara is right around the corner ready to hold this L. If a day phase passes without Zara getting anybody riled up from his [All The Smoke] passive, he will be in Lara mode the following night. As a result, negative actions will be upgraded a level against him.
--- [Call me Lara again, I dare you] - Zara doesn't appreciate it when anybody calls him Lara. If anybody does, his vote will count for two against them that day.
--- [Stop. Calling. Me. Lara] - Zara continues to get clowned for taking an L and he's had enough. He must lynch two players that called him Lara in the game. Doing so will unlock [Wara].

[Passive - I'm too big brain for this town] - Zara's playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers. If Zara doesn't get voted during the day, he will investigate [Innocent] to cops the following night.

[Active - Roast] - Zara ain't done roasting your punk-ass just yet. At night, Zara may end his target's whole career, crushing their self-esteem to smithereens. He will have to type a roast post that will be sent anonymously to the target at the end of the night. The player will receive the option to get revenge. If they do so, they will have to select another player who they believe sent them this message, then for the rest of the day phase they must "fight". The lynch that day will be reduced to only those two as the options. [4-shots]

[Active - You gonna let him talk to you like that?] - Zara be shamelessly snitching. If anybody badmouths another player in the thread, Zara may snitch to the badmouthed player. The player will be outraged and have their actions be buffed up a level. If Zara roasts the badmouthed player the following night, a fight will immediately ensue with the badmouthee and the badmouther the next day.

[Active - Zara's not a girl?!] - During the night, Zara finally decides to reveal his true identity: he's a boy. The whole town is shocked! They can't believe it! "B-but, Zara is a girl's name!" argued someone. "What kinda girl debates power levels right after joining the forum?" Zara responds. Players visiting him that night will learn this shocking truth and be so confused that their action gets redirected back to themselves. [1-shot]

[Active - Wara] - Locked. Zara may immediately instigate a fight between two players, skipping the process altogether. [1-shot]

Wincon - Instigate 3 fights and achieve Wara.​
 
D

Dragomir

#30
@Zara I didn't like the Zara role I made in All-Stars. It felt underwhelming and so I decided to redo it. What do you think about it above?
 
#32
Custom ToS Role:

Name: Interrogator.
Type: Town Investigative.

Abilities and Mechanics:

- When there's an Interrogator there is no Jailor in the game unless it's special
- The Interrogator picks a target to take to the Interrogation Room for the night during the day
- They can communicate with their target through the host
- While in the room both have a Basic defense and actions fail on them (except for powerful kills and such)
- The Interrogator may decide to search their target for weapons and find out if they are a killing role, they have 3 charges and the target will be informed that they were searched
- Roles which will show as a KIller: Vig, Bodyguard, Crusader, Trapper, Veteran, Vampire Hunter, Jailor (in special games), all Mafia members, all Coven members, Serial Killer, Arsonist, Juggernaut, Pestilence, Jester, Vampire, Werewolf, Pirate



Wins with Town.
 
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