Character Discussion "SaNjI bEtRaYeD LuFfY"
- Thread starter Chrono
- Start date
The SHs were in no way equipped to take on the Big Mom Pirates in WCI. They got destroyed and saved by Plot countless of times.
Again you cannot remotely compare the stakes of Sanji and Robin's situation even if the scenarios were similar. In Robin's case, they were up against a WG team which was around the same lvl as the SHs, with the SHs being the only people Robin is protecting. Not to forget the full crew was there.
Here Sanji is up against a Super Powered full Yonko crew, with half the crew, with the Baratie, Kamabaka and SHs all in danger. They have absoloutely no way of winning. And escaping would mean the deaths of people of Baratie and Kamabaka, and also immediate deaths of the SHs.
Of course with Oda's big pen of PLOT, he made all the threat dissappear as soon as Sanji changed his mind. But lets not forget that they werent there. Sanji's situation was far worse than Robin, since it was endangering people who had no idea they would be attacked or could defend themselves. Whereas Luffy and Co. were up against similar lvl people.
Robin herself says so.
Robin: "Dont forget, this isnt like before"
Again you cannot remotely compare the stakes of Sanji and Robin's situation even if the scenarios were similar. In Robin's case, they were up against a WG team which was around the same lvl as the SHs, with the SHs being the only people Robin is protecting. Not to forget the full crew was there.
Here Sanji is up against a Super Powered full Yonko crew, with half the crew, with the Baratie, Kamabaka and SHs all in danger. They have absoloutely no way of winning. And escaping would mean the deaths of people of Baratie and Kamabaka, and also immediate deaths of the SHs.
Of course with Oda's big pen of PLOT, he made all the threat dissappear as soon as Sanji changed his mind. But lets not forget that they werent there. Sanji's situation was far worse than Robin, since it was endangering people who had no idea they would be attacked or could defend themselves. Whereas Luffy and Co. were up against similar lvl people.
Robin herself says so.
Robin: "Dont forget, this isnt like before"
They had no idea what was in Enies Lobby, and the threat was Buster Call. 5 VAs + 10 battle ships on the level or even above a country.
There are several ways to deal with the situation, you simply needed to beat Capone and hatch a plan.
Pekomz literally offered to negotiate the situation.
Strawhats got destroyed in W7, and once again, CP9 was not the threat, buster call was, not to forget it was Aokiji who started all this, so if you want to push it, you would have to assume he is in Enies Lobby as well.
She means a new level of opponent we have never seen, which is still true, has nothing to do with how relatively the threats compare to the respective levels of the Strawhats in each situation.
WCI Sanji's plot is a simple one of self sacrifice, even going for the "doesn't even matter if you will hate me for it" thing. A very emotional plot, but nothing OMG SO MUCH COMPLEXITY. YOU NEED TO HAVE A PHD TO FUCKING BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND IT.
If people still dont get it, they simply like One Piece for others reasons, aside the character driven narrative. Fights, one shots, "badassery", these kind of things which you can find in dozen of other mangas.
The narrative was, and always will be One Piece greatest asset. Even with its obvious flaws, there are enough good things to more than compensate for it.
And it's really funny how some people mock sanji because he dressed as an okama.
You people now that's transphobic, right?
Sanji himself has a lot of "japanese cliches" that reflect a homophobic, transphobic, and sexual assault behavior. This japanese trope is really prevalent in mangas in general. It's something that I intentionally ignore, because it is absolutely garbage.
But repeating the "okama gag" as something to mock someone for, is just as trash as character's trait itself.
And about Big MOm plot against the Vinksmokes, they dont know about it. Again, people expect the character to act based on information the audience have, but not the character.
In RPG, we call it "metagaming".
If people still dont get it, they simply like One Piece for others reasons, aside the character driven narrative. Fights, one shots, "badassery", these kind of things which you can find in dozen of other mangas.
The narrative was, and always will be One Piece greatest asset. Even with its obvious flaws, there are enough good things to more than compensate for it.
And it's really funny how some people mock sanji because he dressed as an okama.
You people now that's transphobic, right?
Sanji himself has a lot of "japanese cliches" that reflect a homophobic, transphobic, and sexual assault behavior. This japanese trope is really prevalent in mangas in general. It's something that I intentionally ignore, because it is absolutely garbage.
But repeating the "okama gag" as something to mock someone for, is just as trash as character's trait itself.
And about Big MOm plot against the Vinksmokes, they dont know about it. Again, people expect the character to act based on information the audience have, but not the character.
In RPG, we call it "metagaming".
I will make a huge essay to destroyed everybody's headcanons later but I will just put it simply.
Sanji to Luffy
Sanji are trying to make Luffy leave so that Sanji can protect everyone.
While Zoro to Luffy
Zoro doesn't hesitate to kill Luffy.
Robin also did the same but she's at least trying to save the crew from danger.
Usopp to Luffy
Sanji to Luffy
Sanji are trying to make Luffy leave so that Sanji can protect everyone.
While Zoro to Luffy
Zoro doesn't hesitate to kill Luffy.
Robin also did the same but she's at least trying to save the crew from danger.
Usopp to Luffy
We are talking about something else rn.
sanji wanted after wano
Either way depends on the significance of betrayal. Was Usopp's betrayal for example? No SH did ever truly betrayal another one. Those were critical moments.
I think you missed the part where she had no intention of honoring the deal, or letting pudding marry...they say no to her face and she would simply murder the living crap out of them a bit sooner.
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Its interesting how Zoro fans see the scene as a "meme moment" when it comes to Zoro saying he'll kill Luffy. But when it comes to potrayal for Zoro = Luffy, then the fight isnt a gag/meme anymore/.
He did it to protect the people he cared about. Staying would have resulted in the destruction of everything Sanji held dear.
If Sanji didnt leave the crew and BM came with a fleet the alliance Luffy and Law had would have been steamrolled. The point of Sanji's self sacrifice was to avoid people dying lmao. Hell, it would be out of character if he did otherwise.
Regardless of the type of person Luffy is, Sanji's decision was a sound one period lol.
If Sanji didnt leave the crew and BM came with a fleet the alliance Luffy and Law had would have been steamrolled. The point of Sanji's self sacrifice was to avoid people dying lmao. Hell, it would be out of character if he did otherwise.
Regardless of the type of person Luffy is, Sanji's decision was a sound one period lol.
You clearly are since you're comparing it to Ennies Lobby...where Sanji was ready to fight against the CP9. Whereas in WCI, the situation was always an escape with Luffy.
And wtf would Pekoms do ? Big Mom would literally kill him before she lets the SHs leave with Sanji. Bitch is ready to kill her own children, what chance does Pekoms have.
Theres still no comparison....its clear as day that the stakes were far higher in WCI. Even if we say the situation was as dangerous for the Pre Timeskip SHs as it is for the WCI SHs, which it clearly wasnt. Theirs still the threats of Baratie and Kamabaka, and all that blood would be on Sanji's hands....for literally what reason ? Sanji would rather die before anyone else gets hurt, so why risk any other bloodshed. Thats the type of character he is.
If Plot never existed, people would be dead now in the Baratie and Kamabaka. Hell, a few SHs would be dead. All of these deaths are against people who are not interested in fighting the Big Meme pirates, unlike in Ennies Lobby where they wanted to fight for Robin. You ignorantly ignore all of this context to push your stupid narrative of Sanji not trusting Luffy, when in reality its not about Sanji not trusting Luffy. Sanji just doesnt see the worth of him escaping with the SHs, if it will cause all this bloodshed. Theres no way in hell Luffy could stop all the deaths. Hell they all wouldve died in the Tea Party. Yet Sanji who sacrificed himself is getting all the blame.
She clearly says it isnt like before. Which shows that she also is taking into consideration the strength differences of before. All of this point to the Pre Timeskip SHs having a way easier time with Ennies Lobby, then the Zou SHs with Big Meme pirates.
Sanji was willing to get killed by Pearl to protect Zeff and his treasure. These people clearly do not know what kind of person Sanji is, who puts everyone above himself.
And wtf would Pekoms do ? Big Mom would literally kill him before she lets the SHs leave with Sanji. Bitch is ready to kill her own children, what chance does Pekoms have.
Theres still no comparison....its clear as day that the stakes were far higher in WCI. Even if we say the situation was as dangerous for the Pre Timeskip SHs as it is for the WCI SHs, which it clearly wasnt. Theirs still the threats of Baratie and Kamabaka, and all that blood would be on Sanji's hands....for literally what reason ? Sanji would rather die before anyone else gets hurt, so why risk any other bloodshed. Thats the type of character he is.
If Plot never existed, people would be dead now in the Baratie and Kamabaka. Hell, a few SHs would be dead. All of these deaths are against people who are not interested in fighting the Big Meme pirates, unlike in Ennies Lobby where they wanted to fight for Robin. You ignorantly ignore all of this context to push your stupid narrative of Sanji not trusting Luffy, when in reality its not about Sanji not trusting Luffy. Sanji just doesnt see the worth of him escaping with the SHs, if it will cause all this bloodshed. Theres no way in hell Luffy could stop all the deaths. Hell they all wouldve died in the Tea Party. Yet Sanji who sacrificed himself is getting all the blame.
She clearly says it isnt like before. Which shows that she also is taking into consideration the strength differences of before. All of this point to the Pre Timeskip SHs having a way easier time with Ennies Lobby, then the Zou SHs with Big Meme pirates.
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Sanji was willing to get killed by Pearl to protect Zeff and his treasure. These people clearly do not know what kind of person Sanji is, who puts everyone above himself.
If they didnt went through Ennie Lobby it would have made sense....But they literaly went against the government itself to save robin when they were much weaker. And she would have brought her fleet? ya mean like she is doing now?
Government>single yonko
He had to be quite a fool indeed to think Luffy would give up on bringing him back.
Government>single yonko
He had to be quite a fool indeed to think Luffy would give up on bringing him back.