Powers & Abilities An Explanation of The Deal With Enma

[Garp the Fist]

What's of potential value about Enma is the ability to push out so much Haki that one's whole arm would shrivel in an instant, into the blade.

We've never seen that be done with any other blade.

How one uses that Haki afterwards determines it's value in the end, and wether it was wasted or not.

Enma’s value is that allows a user to refine and improve their Haki use. That’s why when we saw Zoro training with it, he wasn’t trying to cut mountains in half. He was instead making small, precise cuts on stalks of bamboo.

It’s also no coincidence that this training is mirrored with Luffy’s, which is doing a very similar thing. It’s about conserving energy and getting the most out of an attack as you can, not going hell for leather and using as much haki as you can.

Enma, Ryou, and Luffy’s use of CoA all have came about as Oda reintroduced the concept of cutting only what you want to cut again for the first time since Alabasta, and telling us it’s actually the essence of Ryou. Finesse is what’s important, not brute strength. People are getting the entirely wrong idea about Enma if they think it’s there to allow Zoro to throw out mountain cutting blasts at will. That’s old news, he showed that in Dressrosa.

 

[nik87]

Lmao, stop. You guys tried to argue he wasn't using Haki at all. You're proved wrong.

Stop what? lol You are the one who tried to argue that he was using Enma's power instead of his own and how did that end up for you?

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Yeah it can and in the case of the Scabbards we are directly told they are using it (Oden's Ryou)

However, check the panel where Enma releases Zoro's Ryou. Not only is the sword black, but his haki is also leaking. It is this same leakage shown on Dressrosa and shown with Whitebeard and Roger

Yea, that doesn't have anything to do with my point. Ryou can be used without Hardening

 

[Cinera]

Yeah, just realized it after I blew the picture up and looked at it closer. I shall hold my L.

Thanks for being a good sport.


@Kuro Ashi I've told you what would convince me that Enma acts to amplify Zoro's AP (if Zoro is excessively drained/depleted/withered/otherwise has haki over use commented on during/after the Kaido fight). What would it take to convince you that Enma essentially functions as training wheels for Zoro's haki?


For the record, at this point in time, I think it's likely that during the Kaido fight Enma would act as an AP amplifier as opposed to just training wheels. This is mostly due to the focus the sword has gotten since its introduction. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but at this point I expect to end up conceding that Enma seems to have enables Zoro deploy more offensive power than he could have with Shusui, so I'm just going to go ahead and concede now; Enma is (probably) a power up.

 

[Geo]

Enma’s value is that allows a user to refine and improve their Haki use. That’s why when we saw Zoro training with it, he wasn’t trying to cut mountains in half. He was instead making small, precise cuts on stalks of bamboo.

It’s also no coincidence that this training is mirrored with Luffy’s, which is doing a very similar thing. It’s about conserving energy and getting the most out of an attack as you can, not going hell for leather and using as much haki as you can.

Enma, Ryou, and Luffy’s use of CoA all have came about as Oda reintroduced the concept of cutting only what you want to cut again for the first time since Alabasta, and telling us it’s actually the essence of Ryou. Finesse is what’s important, not brute strength. People are getting the entirely wrong idea about Enma if they think it’s there to allow Zoro to throw out mountain cutting blasts at will. That’s old news, he showed that in Dressrosa.

In addition, their mirrored training in tempering their new weapons is what was shown in recent chapter as Luffy uses G4 and doesn't manage to do damage

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2021

Yea, that doesn't have anything to do with my point. Ryou can be used without Hardening

Which I haven't disputed.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Lmao, stop. You guys tried to argue he wasn't using Haki at all. You're proved wrong.



Already did. Multiple times. In the panel Zoro is holding Enma both edges of the blade are black. Enma in base, only the back edge of the blade is black, the sharp edge is silver. Don't care about the drawing inconsistency when he's attacking Kaido, when the panel right after clearly shows it's black on both edges, and Zoro even comments he needs to be able to draw out more when it comes to Enma.

Or what exactly do you think it means when Zoro says he needs to draw out MORE. Enma's a magical blade with its own powers, and Zoro can only draw out some of that power?

Who argued that Zoro wasn't using Haki?

 

[Geo]

Who argued that Zoro wasn't using Haki?

I did

 

[nik87]

Who argued that Zoro wasn't using Haki?

I did too considering no Hardening was used.

 

[Kuro Ashi]

Enma’s value is that allows a user to refine and improve their Haki use. That’s why when we saw Zoro training with it, he wasn’t trying to cut mountains in half. He was instead making small, precise cuts on stalks of bamboo.

It’s also no coincidence that this training is mirrored with Luffy’s, which is doing a very similar thing. It’s about conserving energy and getting the most out of an attack as you can, not going hell for leather and using as much haki as you can.

Enma, Ryou, and Luffy’s use of CoA all have came about as Oda reintroduced the concept of cutting only what you want to cut again for the first time since Alabasta, and telling us it’s actually the essence of Ryou. Finesse is what’s important, not brute strength. People are getting the entirely wrong idea about Enma if they think it’s there to allow Zoro to throw out mountain cutting blasts at will. That’s old news, he showed that in Dressrosa.

That training is necessary to be able to limit Enma's impulse.

Due to that training Haki control in general improves.

That does not take away Enma's unique trait, of putting massive amounts of Haki into the blade in an instant if needed.

You're basically making the claim that "Way more Haki infused into an attack can't be an asset".

You don't need to argue one over the other. Enma can help with everything you just listed, as well as everything i've talked about.

There's absolutely no reason to argue vehemently against the notion that one could do more with more haki at his disposal. Look at how Roger was flaunting his Haki in significant amounts over his blade

And tell him that he's an idiot for doing so, and launching Oden across the island or clashing equally with Whitebeard as a result.

 

[Geo]

I did too considering no Hardening was used.

I don't know why people just automatically assume he is when there's no statement nor indication.
It is like claiming Law was using Ryou on the rocks or Luffy was using internal destruction with Kong Gun

 

[Rivaille]

If Enma has the unique function to allow you to cut more than you could normally, at the cost of more Haki than you could expend normally, then it is a power up.

Just by holding it he has the option to do something that he could not do before.

Again, it's very similar to G4 in some ways, and even by your own description it can be counted perfectly fine as a power up. You say :



Well if he could not without Enma, isn't it a power up ?

Or let's say that for Mihawk for example, let's say that Yoru "allows him to use his full potential".

Isn't getting Yoru instead of another sword, Mihawk getting a power up.

Seems like part of Zoro's fanbase built this stigma around the notion of a power up, and now have extreme adversity to saying Zoro's getting one in any way, shape or form.

It is not that the sword allows you to cut more than normally, is just that it cut more than you would wanted. The sword will not allows you to cut something that you could not cut anyways. That is why I talk about full potential.

Enma does not allow Zoro to do thing that he could not do without it, it just allows Zoro to use all of his own power at once. But it does not add to the said power which is why it is not a power up for me.

Yes part of the fandom as a hard time to say that Enma is a power up because 1/ it is not and 2/ because the people who pushed that it is a power up, initially argue that it is a magical sword. They move the goal post since then but we did not forget.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

I did

Huh? Lol why would you think that after the whole arc was about Ryou and Kaido skin

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2021

I did too considering no Hardening was used.

Oh ok, but

You can apply hardening though for it to be stronger like the sccabards did with their final attack

 

[Garp the Fist]

That training is necessary to be able to limit Enma's impulse.

Due to that training Haki control in general improves.

That does not take away Enma's unique trait, of putting massive amounts of Haki into the blade in an instant if needed.

You're basically making the claim that "Way more Haki infused into an attack can't be an asset".

You don't need to argue one over the other. Enma can help with everything you just listed, as well as everything i've talked about.

There's absolutely no reason to argue vehemently against the notion that one could do more with more haki at his disposal. Look at how Roger was flaunting his Haki in significant amounts over his blade

And tell him that he's an idiot for doing so, and launching Oden across the island or clashing equally with Whitebeard as a result.

I’m almost certain that what Roger and Whitebeard did was a clash of CoC, not CoA. It looks a hell of a lot like the CoC clashes Luffy had with Doflamingo and Katakuri, and it wouldn’t really make sense for Oda to hype up a clash of CoA between the two when CoC is the super important, rare one that marks a great person.

But yes, more Haki in an attack makes it stronger. That’s obvious. But it’s not the purpose of the Enma training. Zoro already knew how to throw a load of Haki into his attacks, we saw that in the Pica fight.

 

[Geo]

Huh? Lol why would you think that after the whole arc was about Ryou and Kaido skin

Because there's no indication nor statement of its use.

Do you think Luffy used penetrating haki on Kong Gun?

 

[Kuro Ashi]

I’m almost certain that what Roger and Whitebeard did was a clash of CoC, not CoA. It looks a hell of a lot like the CoC clashes Luffy had with Doflamingo and Katakuri, and it wouldn’t really make sense for Oda to hype up a clash of CoA between the two when CoC is the super important, rare one that marks a great person.

But yes, more Haki in an attack makes it stronger. That’s obvious. But it’s not the purpose of the Enma training. Zoro already knew how to throw a load of Haki into his attacks, we saw that in the Pica fight.

But he never pushed out so much in an instant that it would shrivel his arm.

It is as simple as that, Enma can also function in this manner and make an attack even stronger with even more Haki.

It's a fitting technique for Zoro, as it takes from him and not an outside source, so he can choose to risk depleting himself faster or playing it safe.

Why is there such a push against Enma's unique trait and apparent downside being turned into an upside by Zoro with enough training and dedication ?

Is it just because people are so uptight about the term power up and Zoro being put together in a sentence nowadays ?

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Because there's no indication nor statement of its use.

Do you think Luffy used penetrating haki on Kong Gun?

Yes because of everybody reaction, Kaido statement.

 

[Garp the Fist]

But he never pushed out so much in an instant that it would shrivel his arm.

Yeah, but that’s not a good thing. That’s what we keep trying to point out to you. In a real fight, that’s suicide, it’s why no one does it.

It is as simple as that, Enma can also function in this manner and make an attack even stronger with even more Haki.

That is not what Enma does. Enma can only make Zoro use Haki that he has at his disposal. It cannot make an attack stronger.

If Zoro was to use an attack, with everything he had, using Enma, or using Shusui, the two attacks would be just as strong. Because Enma does not give Zoro more Haki than he possesses.

Why is there such a push against Enma's unique trait and apparent downside being turned into an upside by Zoro with enough training and dedication ?

Because you don’t understand what Enma actually does and how it works, and the way you are phrasing everything makes it seem like it’s the sword that is doing all the work, and not something that is coming naturally from Zoro.

 

[Kuro Ashi]

It is not that the sword allows you to cut more than normally, is just that it cut more than you would wanted. The sword will not allows you to cut something that you could not cut anyways. That is why I talk about full potential.

Enma does not allow Zoro to do thing that he could not do without it, it just allows Zoro to use all of his own power at once. But it does not add to the said power which is why it is not a power up for me.

Yes part of the fandom as a hard time to say that Enma is a power up because 1/ it is not and 2/ because the people who pushed that it is a power up, initially argue that it is a magical sword. They move the goal post since then but we did not forget.

It cuts more than you would want because it forces crazy amounts of Haki out of your body.

That can be a downside as bad as outright killing you, or an asset that can help increase your attack power at the cost of draining a lot of Haki.

Ok i get it. You guys argue more in light of whatever disagreement you had in the past, and are not interested in keeping an open mind about this because it feels like you would make a concession and unwilingly end up closer to what you disagreed with in the past.

To me this is cool for Zoro, because it gives him a very unique blade that actually is very useful going forward, and fits his way of doing things where he puts all of his ambition and gives his all to come out on top. The blade would only enhance his ability to do just that.

 

[HA001]

It cuts more than you would want because it forces crazy amounts of Haki out of your body.

That can be a downside as bad as outright killing you, or an asset that can help increase your attack power at the cost of draining a lot of Haki.

Ok i get it. You guys argue more in light of whatever disagreement you had in the past, and are not interested in keeping an open mind about this because it feels like you would make a concession and unwilingly end up closer to what you disagreed with in the past.

To me this is cool for Zoro, because it gives him a very unique blade that actually is very useful going forward, and fits his way of doing things where he puts all of his ambition and gives his all to come out on top. The blade would only enhance his ability to do just that.

Theres nothing to keep an open mind about
enma doesnt add any power zoro doesnt have

the point where it cuts more than zoro wants to is what he DOESNT WANT IT TO DO.

 

[nik87]

Do you think Luffy used penetrating haki on Kong Gun?

He did because he harmed him but your point stands regardless.