General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Cozy Sofa]

Regarding guys like Loki or Kuzan, we probably will end up with a Skypiea style war. Imu as Enel that everyone is gunning for. In Skypiea there were three fractions (SHP, Shandora, Enels priests + solo guys like Gan Fall).

In the Imu war we could easily see SHP, Marines, CG, BBP and even someone solo.

 

[Reborn]

So hes too strong for the crew but they can handle him?

Loki is too strong for SHs but he can join BBPs who will fight SHs

Loki is too strong for SHs but Luffy and Zoro can handle him

Loki is too strong but Luffy is already at that level and zoro is close to it and Sanji is close to Zoro based on their own argument of wings yet even when we know Zoro and Sanji will grow further even in Elbaph, Loki is breaking M3 dynamics

 

[Uncle Van]

Let's assume Loki is yonkou level. I don't think he would be above this as of now.

Do you think Zoro is far from reaching this level?

And, as many highlighted, we got wings being close to each other so Sanji is near to Zoro as well

"Lets assume" no I wont do that. What even is yonko or admiral level? Loki is a top tier, something Zoro and Sanji are not.

So unless the 2 of them surpass Loki before he joins, Loki aint going anywhere.

So hes too strong for the crew but they can handle him?

? Now this here is what's disingenuous. How does one make such a comparison? The argument was obviously, without any honest room for misinterpretation, that Loki would break the M3 dynamic because he is stronger than Zoro and Sanji right now. Simple, to the point, extremely easy to comprehend.

How is it possible to draw such a conclusion from what I said? How is it possible that one reads Loki is too strong for the M3 dynamic as him being too strong or weak to be taken down by the SHs?

 

[Reborn]

"Lets assume" no I wont do that. What even is yonko or admiral level? Loki is a top tier, something Zoro and Sanji are not.

So unless the 2 of them surpass Loki before he joins, Loki aint going anywhere.



? Now this here is what's disingenuous. How does one make such a comparison? The argument was obviously, without any honest room for misinterpretation, that Loki would break the M3 dynamic because he is stronger than Zoro and Sanji right now. Simple, to the point, extremely easy to comprehend.

How is it possible to draw such a conclusion from what I said? How is it possible that one reads Loki is too strong for the M3 dynamic as him being too strong or weak to be taken down by the SHs?

So, Loki is top tier, Luffy is top tier and Zoro is high high tier? Right?

Zoro is knocking on that door of top tier then and Elbaph is enough to break through that ceiling

 

[KidGinbe]

Semantics 🤌🏾

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Why are they attacking Luffy from behind?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:16 PM

gaban is giving Hajrudin more reason to give Loki to Luffy only.

Like Hajrudin is even seen observing Luffy interest in his younger brother.

You honestly think Hajrudin or gaban gonna be ok with Loki running off on his own after elbaf. Luffy already sounded dissapointed when hajrudin told him no. Luffy not gonna let loki go off on his own unless he on his crew.

Loki and Hajrudin are in the same boat and will eventually realize.
The Elbaf citizens discriminate against Loki due to his supposed curse and violence incl Harald's killing (which WE know he didn't do).
Hajrudin is facing discrimination due to being an 'illegitimate' half foreigner.
They antagonize one another to feel superior at leas against somebody.
This is going to change.

Jinbei didn't actual join

What?
You right here ate the clown clown no mi after killing @CoC: Color of Clowns. As if your wife wasn't enough.

Regarding guys like Loki or Kuzan, we probably will end up with a Skypiea style war. Imu as Enel that everyone is gunning for. In Skypiea there were three fractions (SHP, Shandora, Enels priests + solo guys like Gan Fall).

In the Imu war we could easily see SHP, Marines, CG, BBP and even someone solo.

Best and most reasonable post in the last 30 pages tbh

 

[Sigran101]

This power level stuff is pointless. We can't extrapolate how strong he is now based on what he did as a baby, that makes no sense. All Gaban says is that Shanks is the one who beat him. He doesn't give a list of people who tried and failed. And a 2.6 billion bounty is lower than Kid and Law. And ya'll are calling people insane and stupid just for not agreeing with your power scaling head cannon. How about we wait until we actually see him fight?

 

[zoinks0dandelion]

Repeat with me non believers.


Hajrudin will not let Loki go, unless he is with Luffy. Gaban then told Hajrudin to release Loki to Luffy.

There was nothing funny/gag any where when luffy asked Loki to join!!


Like you guys ignoring what is already shown in the manga, even right after luffy said the invite.

gaban is giving Hajrudin more reason to give Loki to Luffy only.

Like Hajrudin is even seen observing Luffy interest in his younger brother.

You honestly think Hajrudin or gaban gonna be ok with Loki running off on his own after elbaf. Luffy already sounded dissapointed when hajrudin told him no. Luffy not gonna let loki go off on his own unless he on his crew.

Loki looks up to Xebec in his youth, the death of him is the tragic part.

So, his job in the Straw Hat pirates can be a gangster, smuggler, or bandit, like the jobs in the Rocks’ pirates.

He could’ve stolen the legendary devil fruit.

 

[Uncle Van]

So, Loki is top tier, Luffy is top tier and Zoro is high high tier? Right?

Zoro is knocking on that door of top tier then and Elbaph is enough to break through that ceiling

What even is your point? Loki still aint joining if he's stronger than Sanji

Semantics 🤌🏾

Welp you're a true nakama debator lol

This power level stuff is pointless. We can't extrapolate how strong he is now based on what he did as a baby, that makes no sense. All Gaban says is that Shanks is the one who beat him. He doesn't give a list of people who tried and failed. And a 2.6 billion bounty is lower than Kid and Law. And ya'll are calling people insane and stupid just for not agreeing with your power scaling head cannon. How about we wait until we actually see him fight?

It is not pointless and not headcanon, but something that's been apart of the M3 dynamic since the beginning.

The M3 will always be the top 3 SHs, and manga statements blatantly insinuates that Loki is top tier. Gaban didnt 'just say' Shanks beat him; he said nobody could stop Loki's rampage until Shanks showed up, which blatantly implies Gaban couldnt stop Loki either. Gaban also didn't want Loki to be freed until he was sure Luffy and Zoro were up to the task, and vouches for Loki's strength being a good replacement for him.

The insane part is people claiming the M3 dynamic doesn't matter.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

This power level stuff is pointless

Always has been

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

The insane part is people claiming the M3 dynamic doesn't matter.

Still funny how Oda still use it.
For a reason he cut Luffy,Zoro and Sanji from the others, because these 3 are the strongest members. For a reason Zoro and Sanji are Luffy wings.

Saying power lvl doesn't matter is just wrong.

 

[Sigran101]

What even is your point? Loki still aint joining if he's stronger than Sanji



Welp you're a true nakama debator lol




It is not pointless and not headcanon, but something that's been apart of the M3 dynamic since the beginning.

The M3 will always be the top 3 SHs, and manga statements blatantly insinuates that Loki is top tier. Gaban didnt 'just say' Shanks beat him; he said nobody could stop Loki's rampage until Shanks showed up, which blatantly implies Gaban couldnt stop Loki either. Gaban also didn't want Loki to be freed until he was sure Luffy and Zoro were up to the task, and vouches for Loki's strength being a good replacement for him.

The insane part is people claiming the M3 dynamic doesn't matter.

I never said the M3 don't matter. Don't make up strawmen. All Gaban said was "Shanks was the one that stopped him. No one was able to do it until then". To claim that means Loki>Gaban requires proof that Gaban tried to stop him. You're just assuming it, which is headcannon. So far, all we know for sure about Loki's current strength is that he lost to Shanks and has a 2.6 billion bounty. That's not nearly enough to call him Yonko level.

 

[Uncle Van]

Still funny how Oda still use it.
For a reason he cut Luffy,Zoro and Sanji from the others, because these 3 are the strongest members. For a reason Zoro and Sanji are Luffy wings.

Saying power lvl doesn't matter is just wrong.

Oda even double down on the wings a few chapters ago infront of Loki. I question anyone who tries to make the anti-Loki arguments seem like something they're not. It is unbelievably direct and in your face what the point is.

All evidences points to Loki being a top tier, which would at least make him stronger than Sanji which is a red flag, as there is no objective reason to claim Oda will break the M3 dynamic after pushing it for 20+ yeats and recently doubling down on it twice.

They gotta prove that either Loki isn't thag powerful, that Sanji will surpass top tier Loki in Elbaph, or that Loki is so special that Oda will break the M3 dynamic. So simple.

I never said the M3 don't matter. Don't make up strawmen. All Gaban said was "Shanks was the one that stopped him. No one was able to do it until then". To claim that means Loki>Gaban requires proof that Gaban tried to stop him. You're just assuming it, which is headcannon. So far, all we know for sure about Loki's current strength is that he lost to Shanks and has a 2.6 billion bounty. That's not nearly enough to call him Yonko level.

It wasn't a strawman. I was speaking in general like you were. My last line was directed at you saying what was insane. And also, I never said Loki is yonkou level, something thag doesnt even exist. And you have no proof that Gaban didnt do anything.

1) Gaban said no one could stop Loki until Shanks showed up
2) Gaban didnt want Loki freed until he was convinced Luffy and Zoro were up to the task
3) Gaban vouches for Loki's strength being a worthy replacement for him

There is far more evidence via statements suggesting that Loki is top tier, and none right now that suggest he's anything less.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Omi from Skypiea would have annihilated Franky btw

 

[KidGinbe]

Loki is too strong for SHs but he can join BBPs who will fight SHs

Loki is too strong for SHs but Luffy and Zoro can handle him

Loki is too strong but Luffy is already at that level and zoro is close to it and Sanji is close to Zoro based on their own argument of wings yet even when we know Zoro and Sanji will grow further even in Elbaph, Loki is breaking M3 dynamics

Right but its my head cannon? 😭 Goal post is moved depending on what disingenuous argument needs to be used.

"Lets assume" no I wont do that. What even is yonko or admiral level? Loki is a top tier, something Zoro and Sanji are not.

So unless the 2 of them surpass Loki before he joins, Loki aint going anywhere.



? Now this here is what's disingenuous. How does one make such a comparison? The argument was obviously, without any honest room for misinterpretation, that Loki would break the M3 dynamic because he is stronger than Zoro and Sanji right now. Simple, to the point, extremely easy to comprehend.

How is it possible to draw such a conclusion from what I said? How is it possible that one reads Loki is too strong for the M3 dynamic as him being too strong or weak to be taken down by the SHs?

Van YOU'RE one of the ones dragging battledome strength logic into this Nakama discussion which should only be viewed through a character's structure within the narrative of the story. Loki fits the criteria of a crewmember how hes been introduced narratively. No one is saying he'll be above the monster trio.

Except you. Until you need to use it as the logic for why Gaban wanted to set him free? Right? You can't have it both ways, either hes Shanks level or they can handle him. Otherwise it's disingenuous debate and borders trolling.

Let's go down the list

Dynamic introduction
Foreshadowed prior
Establishing bond with Luffy and crew
Sad past
Ambitious
Role model figures in Harald and Rocks (both die later)
Outcast where we as the audience meet him
Luffy freaking asked him to join already and has been damn near making googly eyes this entire arc.


We should ignore that to consider who you think Loki can beat up? Who has yet to really do much except flex?

This power level stuff is pointless. We can't extrapolate how strong he is now based on what he did as a baby, that makes no sense. All Gaban says is that Shanks is the one who beat him. He doesn't give a list of people who tried and failed. And a 2.6 billion bounty is lower than Kid and Law. And ya'll are calling people insane and stupid just for not agreeing with your power scaling head cannon. How about we wait until we actually see him fight?

Bruh. 🤌🏾🙏🏾

 

[Uncle Van]

Except you. Until you need to use it as the logic for why Gaban wanted to set him free? Right? You can't have it both ways, either hes Shanks level or they can handle him. Otherwise it's disingenuous debate and borders trolling.

How is it possible that can you cant understand something so simple and keep being disingenuous? Once again, the point is that the M3 are always the top 3 of the SHs, and Loki right now seems stronger than Sanji and even Zoro. Until that problem is fixed, Loki aint going anywhere. Do you follow?

How exactly does being stronger than Sanji mean the SHs cant handle Loki? You make up all these assumptions about someone's stance all the while ignoring the actual point in your face.

 

[KidGinbe]

How is it possible that can you cant understand something so simple and keep being disingenuous? Once again, the point is that the M3 are always the top 3 of the SHs, and Loki right now seems stronger than Sanji and even Zoro. Until that problem is fixed, Loki aint going anywhere. Do you follow?

How exactly does being stronger than Sanji mean the SHs cant handle Loki? You make up all these assumptions about someone's stance all the whole ignoring the actual point in your face.

I've been reading One Piece a long time, sir.

Im aware of the dynamics within the crew. Oda has shown nothing that implies this. Off handed comments made by Elbaf citizens and Gaban who we know is actively instigating Loki's release is hilarious, especially since he hasn't done anything except hype through dialogue and strong child feats which has been used by Oda countless times. You're the only one saying hes stronger than Zoro and Sanji.

I'd even argue youre being more disingenuous the way youre ignoring The Strawhats were fighting Marine elites and elders just an arc ago. A Yonko and crew before that.

This isn't the pretimeskip or the beginning of the New World. But you continue to present your arguments like it is.

Maybe it's really all you have? Its okay.

 

[Uncle Van]

I've been reading One Piece a long time, sir.

Im aware of the dynamics within the crew. Oda has shown nothing that implies this. Off handed comments made by Elbaf citizens and Gaban who we know is actively instigating Loki's release is hilarious, especially since he hasn't done anything except hype through dialogue and strong child feats which has been used by Oda countless times. You're the only one saying hes stronger than Zoro and Sanji.

I'd even argue youre being more disingenuous the way youre ignoring The Strawhats were fighting Marine elites and elders just an arc ago. A Yonko and crew before that.

This isn't the pretimeskip or the beginning of the New World. But you continue to present your arguments like it is.

Maybe it's really all you have? Its okay.

What does any of that got to do with what I said? You're trying way too hard for a strawmanned "gotcha" moment.

Gaban is freeing Loki because he has been taken down, and are in a predicament that he deduced would require Loki's power to succeed. And he was assured that Luffy can stop him. If you're gonna ignroe even that, then it seems like you'll keep purposely misinterpreting arguments and strawman to hell.

 

[KidGinbe]

What does any of that got to do with what I said? You're trying way too hard for a strawmanned "gotcha" moment.

Gaban is freeing Loki because he has been taken down, and are in a predicament that he deduced would require Loki's power to succeed. If you're gonna ignroe even that, then it seems like you'll keep purposely misinterpreting arguments to hell.

Im not trying anything but refuting your statements sir. If you feel got, then it is what it is?

He was instigating before the God Knights revealed themselves Van...🤷🏿


Im not even trying to be a jerk here man. You started with the veiled condescension.


I only use the term disingenuous because of the inconsistencies with the current arguments how it coincides with prior recruiting patterns. My apologies if it offended you.

 

[Reborn]

Right but its my head cannon? 😭 Goal post is moved depending on what disingenuous argument needs to be used.




Van YOU'RE one of the ones dragging battledome strength logic into this Nakama discussion which should only be viewed through a character's structure within the narrative of the story. Loki fits the criteria of a crewmember how hes been introduced narratively. No one is saying he'll be above the monster trio.

Except you. Until you need to use it as the logic for why Gaban wanted to set him free? Right? You can't have it both ways, either hes Shanks level or they can handle him. Otherwise it's disingenuous debate and borders trolling.

Let's go down the list

Dynamic introduction
Foreshadowed prior
Establishing bond with Luffy and crew
Sad past
Ambitious
Role model figures in Harald and Rocks (both die later)
Outcast where we as the audience meet him
Luffy freaking asked him to join already and has been damn near making googly eyes this entire arc.


We should ignore that to consider who you think Loki can beat up? Who has yet to really do much except flex?





Bruh. 🤌🏾🙏🏾

Problem is there are some misunderstanding regarding few things.

I will just address the bone of contention - "The Wings"


1) Wings of Luffy is a metaphor - a symbolic representation of Zoro and Sanji complementing Luffy.

Strength is one element but there is a lot more to it.

Zoro - complements through will power, courage, strong resolve

Sanji - complements through compassion, kindness and tactical mindset.


Wings aren't just strength of Luffy - they are emotional, mental and physical pillars of Luffy.

No one will ever be able to replace the wings (Zoro and Sanji) of Luffy because how symbolic and deeply rooted this is.

That's why term wing is used - they make Luffy's flight possible through the support according to their strength and unique characteristics.

2) Wings dynamics - no member stronger than Zoro and Sanji ever joined.


Well, it's true but this is a pattern and not a rule. Oda never said I add members based on strength or I will never add any member stronger than the wings

Members are added based on role and narrative significance and their unique characteristics.

Brook addition didn't replace zoro role despite both being swordsmen.

Wings dynamics never getting disturbed is a trend we witnessed, not a rule.

So, question is why there this trend can change now?


Tbh, I have 3 reasons

A) Crew never really came across a character like Loki before who fits the theme, gets invited by Luffy and is strong AF.

B) In the past, narrative never required such strong character to be in crew...but now things are different.

Oda has repeatedly said we are entering final saga - mythical past of this story - where we are encountering devils and legit strong house.

Most SHs don't even cut off to fight them.

Having someone like Loki is narrative requirement.

C) Loki joining will not break wings dynamics.

Loki can never be an emotional, mental and psychological support for Luffy in comparison to Zoro and Sanji. Just strength doesn't define wings. It's a narrow interpretation of wings. Also, we know Zoro and Sanji will grow as well. So, even strength wise, they will Eclipse Loki.