Haki is One Source of Energy
It's just that it can be used in Three different ways (CoO, CoA, CoC)
CoA & CoC will obviously look very similar cuz it's the same Haki being released
Just applied differently
If you see Body or Object turned Black, that's "Hardening"
If you see a Character revealing Future, that's "Future Sight"
If you see Haki being used without Contact, that's "Barrier CoA"
If a Character states or shows that He took Internal Damage from a Haki Attack, that's "Internal Destruction CoA"
As for CoC Coating, if a Character prepare an Attack with a long/large Haki Serpent coming out of it, that's definitely "CoC Coating"
If there any Confusing Panels who don't seem to match this, please show me, so i can change my mind
@trav@JoNdule@wrongidea
I’ve tagged all of you people who claim this haki is clear to understand so I hope you all have the exact same answers to the following:
Can you tell me what the difference between these two images is and what Haki is being used where and why?
Haki piece is unnecessarily, this is not Jojo or HxH, Haki is ridiculously straightforward as a power, it's inconsistent are per Oda's choice not incompetence.
He don't like setting thing is stone, so if he wants to do some crazy bullshit wit Haki later on, he don't want to have hard rules on it
Haki piece is unnecessarily, this is not Jojo or HxH, Haki is ridiculously straightforward as a power, it's inconsistent are per Oda's choice not incompetence.
He don't like setting thing is stone, so if he wants to do some crazy bullshit wit Haki later on, he don't want to have hard rules on it
But Togashi and Araki have the ability to do crazy bullshit with Nen and Stands as well… without being inconsistent
for example regarding the consistency of when anyone is using armament haki… why is this up for debate a lot of times and not straightforward… Just the simple act of using COA is worth debating
for example did you know Sasaki and Black Maria were using Armament haki when they fought Franky and Robin? If you read the fight you can never tell… But their character info was released in a data book way after the fight ended and their character info says they both have armament haki and observation haki
so technically from just reading the manga, you would have no idea that haki was even used in that fight
@trav@JoNdule@wrongidea
I’ve tagged all of you people who claim this haki is clear to understand so I hope you all have the exact same answers to the following:
Can you tell me what the difference between these two images is and what Haki is being used where and why?
Do you see their Swords Turned Black?
Do you see a Large Haki Serpent when They prepare their Attack?
Did it not make Contact?
Do you see the Damage being dealt from within or stated to be?
If you gonna answer No, then They simply used Basic CoA
@trav@JoNdule@wrongidea
I’ve tagged all of you people who claim this haki is clear to understand so I hope you all have the exact same answers to the following:
Can you tell me what the difference between these two images is and what Haki is being used where and why?
I do have a thought on the "Haki serpent" or "Haki trail thing".
Now first, yeah I agree this seems to be an indicator of CoC usage. Luffy having a haki trail, Zoro, etc. I have no problem with that. Fair enough.
But to act like it is so obvious, and consistent? I disagree with that.
The critique is A) It was added late in the One Piece manga
When this concept really starts coming to light is chapter 966, we see the trails on Whitebeard and Roger. But before that we still have panels like Luffy vs. Don Chinjao, Luffy vs. Doflamingo and some panels in Luffy vs. Katakuri where it is indicated that CoC haki is being used in a physical attack sequence, and there is no trails. If CoC haki was not imbued into the attacks, it made no sense to have characters commenting about "clash of conqueriors" or taking note of haki, or doing attack postures with lightning effects that literally look indistinguishable from previous ones where CoC was mentioned as being present.
B) It was often tied to attacks that "Do not touch", as you can clearly see in the above panel. But are there attacks with haki trails that do "touch" the opponents? If so, if you are arguing that it is somewhat consisten or easy to follow then you have a problem with the sudden shifts and lack of clarity.
Now to be fair, "they are not even touching" is mostly with reference two a clash of two CoC imbued attacks. So even if a person is physically hit with an "adv CoC" attack - that it touches them in some way doesn't mean it isn't the same, because without a haki attack to repel it the invisible part is hitting the inside of the character, hence internal damage... fair enough.
I would ask how you interpret you all the Luffy vs Lucci panels as well, but now is not a good time, my game downloads are slowing my ability to load the panels too much.
Haki trails is nice, but it still doesn't seem perfectly conclusive to me.
Do you see their Swords Turned Black?
Do you see a Large Haki Serpent when They prepare their Attack?
Did it not make Contact?
Do you see the Damage being dealt from within or stated to be?
If you gonna answer No, then They simply used Basic CoA
Who is using basic COA? all of them? Both the scabbards and Oden?
how are the scabbards damaging Kaido with basic COA and how is oden permanently scarring Kaido with basic COA?
Luffy was convinced basic COA was utterly useless on Kaido… and then later on Luffy says only AdvCoC can really do damage to Kaido… why are Oden and the scabbards doing the opposite of what Luffy claims?
Who is using basic COA? all of them? Both the scabbards and Oden?
how are the scabbards damaging h K Audi with basic COA and how is oden permanently scarring Kaido with basic COA?
Luffy was convinced basic COA was utterly useless on Kaido… and then later on Luffy says only AdvCoC can really do damage to Kaido… why are Oden and the scabbards doing the opposite of what Luffy claims?
Yes, Scabbards & Oden are using Basic CoA
What's so hard about this to understand?
Just like Kaidou dodged Zoro's Hiryu Kaen that has only Basic CoA
Or when He was damaged by his Tatsumaki
Luffy's Attacks simply weren't Effective on Kaidou until He learned Internal Destruction & then CoC Coating
Luffy's Words apply on himself only, there are hundreds of ways to Damage Kaidou
On the issue of the Scabbards, playful trolling aside, I get that they were using ryou. For me, it doesn't surprise that they could hurt Kaidou. However I thought about it and this came up in my head:
The problem is that, Luffy outperformed them by such a large margin using ryou as well. Yes, Luffy is augmented by his devil fruit, for sure. He has an advantage - speed and durability.
But for him to outperform that many skilled individuals (Scabbards) fighting simultaneously as just one person without CoC attacks (when he was still using ryou only) means FS was doing massive heavy lifting for Luffy, which is exactly what is implied by the manga panels back then with the thunder bagua dodge.
Now let me make this point as well. A lot of you guys were on JoNdule's case apparently about some argumentation he did in scaling with respects to FS.
Now, I don't care about the Luffy agenda, much less the Katakuri agenda and I am not "riding JoNdule's balls" in any way. I literally barely know anything about JoNdule and only vaguely understand what I picked up reading discussion threads, but another point I make is this.
While we are on the topic, if you guys are on his case about his usage of Future Sight COO in debates, you have the problem that Oda himself has made that possible with his portrayals, since Luffy outperforms several individuals while the only key factor was FS.
Now, I did not make this thread in the interest in talking about COO at all, but it does kind of play a role if we get into topics like scaling, comparison and battle which is an obvious offshoot of the nature of comparing physical attacks imbued with haki.
It literally seems that the difference FS makes on its own is that one guy with it can out perform an entire team of proficient haki users.
So I also ask this - did Oda really think this out all that well?
To me, I think this is all more of an Oda-issue. It seems a lot, and I mean A LOT like Oda gave certain characters powers that give them so much of an advantage of others, that he literally had to panic and start drawing panels more and more absent of the logical use of the same powers because literally some top tiers would have just been dominated because certain guys were lucky enough to have a combination of FS and CoC armament coating.
It seems that Oda literally made Luffy and Kaidou too powerful without realizing it, forgot about the admirals and a handful of other characters and then suddenly had to invent ways for CoA imbued attacks to contend with these CoC+CoA out of no where, so you get stuff like the Ice Glove scene.
Would it not have been more sensible to simply give Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu CoC haki and black lightning haki trails? The power scaling would have made more sense, and the only people who would have an issue are the guys who are basically "Admirals are slaves, admirals cannot have CoC." I get the ideology of it, but it would have made, in my opinion, more sense in terms of balancing characters and their combat ability and theoretical power levels.
Yes, Scabbards & Oden are using Basic CoA
What's so hard about this to understand?
Just like Kaidou dodged Zoro's Hiryu Kaen that has only Basic CoA
Or when He was damaged by his Tatsumaki
Luffy's Attacks simply weren't Effective on Kaidou until He learned Internal Destruction & then CoC Coating
Luffy's Words apply on himself only, there are hundreds of ways to Damage Kaidou
when the scabbards first ambush Kaido, Kaido literally says “Your swords won’t even be able to damage me” and only got surprised that they could damage him with what he called “Oden’s Ryuo”
are you implying that Kaido has been a pirate for 40+ years and he didn’t know that basic COA could damage him? After 40+ as a pirate, he was surprised that the scabbards had Basic COA that could damage him?
And at the end ODA MAKES SURE KAIDO AND LUFFY AGREE ON WHAT CAN OR CANT REALLY DAMAGE HIM
ODA HAS BOTH KAIDO AND LUFFY CALL EVERYTHING THAT THE SCABBARDS AND LUFFY WERE DOING BEFORE ADVCOC TOO SHALLOW
I’m using Capitals and Bolds above because I want to emphasize that this isn’t a coincidence. It’s not a coincidence that Oda has both characters use the same words to describe this
you claiming that Scabbard Basic COA is somehow unique to Luffy’s is literal nonsense. Not only does Hyogoro, a master of AdvCoA agree with Luffy as well that AdvCoA is required to start damaging Kaido… Kaido also starts agreeing with Luffy that not even AdvCoA can do real damage and you need AdvCoC to actually do serious damage to Kaido
you saying that Oden can permanently scar Kaido with basic COA when both Kaido and Luffy agree that not even AdvCoA can do jack fucking shit to Kaido is ridiculous
The problem is that, Luffy outperformed them by such a large margin using ryou as well. Yes, Luffy is augmented by his devil fruit, for sure. He has an advantage - speed and durability.
@trav@JoNdule@wrongidea
I’ve tagged all of you people who claim this haki is clear to understand so I hope you all have the exact same answers to the following:
Can you tell me what the difference between these two images is and what Haki is being used where and why?
when the scabbards first ambush Kaido, Kaido literally says “Your swords won’t even be able to damage me” and only got surprised that they could damage him with what he called “Oden’s Ryuo”
are you implying that Kaido has been a pirate for 40+ years and he didn’t know that basic COA could damage him? After 40+ as a pirate, he was surprised that the scabbards had Basic COA that could damage him?
And at the end ODA MAKES SURE KAIDO AND LUFFY AGREE ON WHAT CAN OR CANT REALLY DAMAGE HIM
ODA HAS BOTH KAIDO AND LUFFY CALL EVERYTHING THAT THE SCABBARDS AND LUFFY WERE DOING BEFORE ADVCOC TOO SHALLOW
I’m using Capitals and Bolds above because I want to emphasize that this isn’t a coincidence. It’s not a coincidence that Oda has both characters use the same words to describe this
you claiming that Scabbard Basic COA is somehow unique to Luffy’s is literal nonsense. Not only does Hyogoro, a master of AdvCoA agree with Luffy as well that AdvCoA is required to start damaging Kaido… Kaido also starts agreeing with Luffy that not even AdvCoA can do real damage and you need AdvCoC to actually do serious damage to Kaido
you saying that Oden can permanently scar Kaido with basic COA when both Kaido and Luffy agree that not even AdvCoA can do jack fucking shit to Kaido is ridiculous
Post automatically merged:
@SparagusParty
I mean Zoro also single-handedly outperformed all the scabbards when he scarred Kaido… And Zoro doesn’t have FS or dfs or whatever
Zoro is kind of a special case - he has been potrayed as being very close to Luffy's power ever since Whisky Peak. Though one might argue that Kaidou willingly took the Asura, kind of similar to Vegeta challenging Perfect Cell with final flash. It didn't seem to me that Kaidou made an effort in dodging like he did for Luffy's second Red Roc, where Luffy taunted him. Perhaps Kaidou underestimated Zoro severely because he was not a captain. Actually, that is probably the case considering it was Big Burden who warned Kaidou to dodge that slash from Zoro that cut the Onigashima horn.
There's no private definition of advance coc. We know exactly what Adcoc is. It was explained simply when Luffy told us what it was. He's the Only person to talk about it. People say black lightning because Zoro has black lightning now. It's nothing further than that. I don't think the black lightning is real I think it's just a visual affect Oda used to show that the attack is really powerful.
When did I say that it was? Please quote me.
Anyways, if there is something that confuses you about haki then please be specific and I may be able to give you an appropriate answer.
Why does this matter? Kaido could be cut by CoA. CoC coating is not a requirement to hurt Kaido, nor is it a requirement to off Kaido.
What matters is the outcome.
That is why I call Oda a lazy writer. He makes everything as vague as possible because he doesn't want to put in the effort of doing his homework. No point in putting the effort when you constantly have fanboys keep saying how great One Piece is.
fans calling him a lazy writer because theyre too lazy to put in the effort of figuring out how haki works, they want the big 20 chapter arc about tedious haki explanations like togashi would do
How's that Confusing?
Not Touching have two different froms in Haki one from Armament and one from Conqueror.
Armament Haki have some level when the attack still touching the its a basic thing, the next level is without touching (like Sentomaru performed) and the Advance thing is Send an Energy wave to the inside of the target( like Rayligh and Luffy did )
Advance Conqueror Haki not always "not Touching", there's some example when Kaido directly landed a hit on luffy or when he Clashed with Luffy.
Luffy have shown to combining Both Advance Conqueror Haki and Advance Armament Haki start in chapter 1010 but when he went G5 he only use basic Armament combined with Advance Conqueror Haki then later on he use combined Both Advance Haki with Bajrang Gun.
Zoro also use it that way.
From touchin to not touching.
You can't blame Oda for something you dont Understand.
This :cheers:
People complicated on purpose to fit in their agenda. Also with stuff like lightning thickness, etc. It’s not that complicated
Armament haki level 1: haki infused body no color
Armament haki level 2: hardening color black
Armament haki level 3: use haki to extend body and deal damage without touching. Shown by Luffy when he destroyed a tree. Just as example
Armament haki level 4: send haki inside to deal internal damage
Conquers haki level 1: knock people out using it
Conquers haki level 2: infuse in attacks to make them even stronger
Conquers haki level 3: combine conquers haki level 2 and armament haki level 3
Conquers haki level 4: combine conquers haki level 2 and armament haki level 4
@trav@JoNdule@wrongidea
I’ve tagged all of you people who claim this haki is clear to understand so I hope you all have the exact same answers to the following:
Can you tell me what the difference between these two images is and what Haki is being used where and why?
Oden use Armament and Conqueror Haki combined ( there's a black Lightning tails following Oden's Sword is Conqueror and Black colour on his sword is Armament).
Scabbards only Armament ( their swords were Black and no black Lightning tails following their swords).
The black lightning come on the scabbard is from the Impact of their haki.
Post automatically merged:
But There's a diffrence with the Black Lightning of Armament and Conqueror.
Conqueror haki black lightning were long and touch the things got imbued/infused.
Armament black lightning Isnt touching the things got imbued/infused, if the black lightning were touching the things the ussualy its not long and vice versa.
Underestimation wouldn’t suddenly make Kaido susceptible to getting scarred… We are talking about Zoro single-handedly outperforming all the scabbards right?
didnt Kaido also underestimate the scabbards? Kaido doesn’t even use Hybrid against the scabbards. At the very least Zoro fought Kaido in hybrid form.
if underestimation is the reason Kaido got scarred by Zoro, then the scabbards should have done it too since Kaido also underestimated them
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
