I think that a certain biased part of the fandom completely twisted the notion of what portrayal is. These special friends of us would suggest that quarrelling or appearing in a panel together is enough to make two characters close, if not even equals, for life. That's obviously a terrible way to promote their comical agenda, which we know well already.
But I mean, maybe they are right? Let's see.
EPISODE 1 "B-but they bicker, they must be close if not even equals!" Let's see.
An heated confrontation between two characters, depicted as polar opposites with one representing a cat and the other a dog, so cat vs dog, the fated battle of the nature world, not to mention the way the author draws them one edging against the other, so might, I mean, this is clear portrayal, these two are equals, case closed, deal done...
EPISODE 2 "B-but they are portrayed as rivals, clearly!" Let's go further and see, again.
A tough fight seems about to rise, the two opponents are going to move from bickering to a real last blood battle, look the way they glare between themselves, look the way the author depicts them as if they hold the same relevance, you can bet, the way the page is perfectly divided in two between these two hot headed warriors, I mean, you really can bet, these two are equals.
EPISODE 3 "B-but the author showed them achieving the same feat, in a double page nonetheless!"
Oh, well, this is not desputable (or maybe it is...). This is written in stone (or maybe it is not...). I mean just look. Look the way these two defeat two equal opponents, no come on there's no doubt, they put the same effort to defeat two equally strong foes, and the author depicts this in a massive double page spread with both the guys being paralleled, if that's not 100% portrayal of being equals, then I don't know.
EPISODE 4 - "B-but they are mentioned together!"
Something else need to be even said? These two character are mentioned together in the same phrase in the same category, no distinction, they are just "officials". Nuff said. No one is said to be the far stronger one, only "officers". This seals the deal. They are equals.
EPISODE 5 - "B-but they challenge themselves in a manly contest!"
I know. I know. If two people challenge themselves at a contest, be it hunting, fishing or whatever like that, the two of them must be equals. You don't play a challenge with someone if you are not close to him!
So, as we just saw... hell, no. Two people can be both dangerous, or both being grouped together or doing something together the same way in the same panel, or both share the same title, and that's not portrayal of anything, and they can still be far apart in strength. Especially if everything else it was showed and stated about them shows and implies that.
Usual example is King and Queen.
They are mentioned together, don't get along and bicker... but when shit becomes real, Queen is the first one who obeys King, Queen even makes sure to worship King by hyping the power of his Lunarian race. Oda made a complete distinction between King (officially confirmed second strongest in the Beast Pirates, leader of the All Stars, and Kaido's right hand man of choice, received his name from Kaido who praised his strength, was hyped also by Queen, was showed as a killer machine) and Queen (a mere All Star and underling, no hype from Kaido, no hype from King, was showed as a scientist with flaws as a fighter).
Yeah, all that difference, inspite of all their bickering and the panel they appeared together.
Not to mention that being mentioned together means jackshit. Ofter we see characters getting mentioned as Strawhats, and so what, is Usopp equal to Luffy? The same goes for being mentioned generically as All Stars, Sweet Commanders, Titanic Captains, Supernovas: for example we have Law and Hawkins being mentioned together as Supernovas, but that doesn't mean anything, they just have the minimum requirements for being both part of that group and therefore being mentioned together, but that doesn't mean in anyway that they are close. The same goes for the rest.
The same goes for the famed "Wings" thing. That doesnt' mean anything in terms of strength, like a certain delusional biased fandom would desperately claim. It just refers to volume 73 SBS where Oda stated that both Zoro and Sanji are trustworthy men who cover Luffys's back. Which is, indeed, what they are, nothing more nothing less. Oda could have easily called them rivals or something in that issue, but, face the reality, he chose to not.
And, funny thing, even if he did (which, again, he chose to not do) being rivals doesn't mean anything.
You can bicker like Lucci vs Jabra, Kaku vs Jabra, King vs Queen, Luffy vs Kidd, Shanks vs Buggy, Mr 1 vs Mr 2: these are gag rivalries where people just don't get along or friendly compete. You can have a rivalry that is not friendly and not based on gags but is still far from making the two rivals close or equals, as one of the two is much stronger than the other, like Kidd vs Apoo, Zoro vs Killer, Luffy vs Koby.
The supposed rivalry between Zoro and Sanji is a mix of the two aforementioned situations.
A completely different thing are actual properly said rivalries, like Shanks vs Mihawk, Zoro vs Mihawk, Roger vs Garp, Roger vs Whitebeard, Teach vs Luffy. These are serious strength rivalries where people compete for the pinnacle of strength and/or the same important achievement, and if they fight they would draw of the winner would come out after an extreme diff battle.
People should just deal with it. Bickering and don't getting along well doesn't mean being rivals.
And being rivals still isn't absolutely the same thing as being equals and peers. It's just a competition between people with similar roles but different strength.
For example the way you could say that Cavendish and Zoro are rivals for being both Supernovas and swordsmen, and we know Zoro is much stronger, also you could say that Killer and Zoro are rivals for being both Supernovas and partners/number twos/first mates/right hands to their captain, and we know Zoro is much stronger, just like also Kidd and Luffy are rivals for being both Supernovas and Pirate King contenders, and we know Luffy is much stronger.
Hell, all the Supernovas, even Capone and Bonney, are stated to be rivals for Luffy. But, again, being rivals isn't absolutely the same thing as being equals and peers.
While the thing about, for example, Mihawk and Shanks is completely different. Their rivalry many times in the manga and in databooks and other official sources is stated to be a rivalry between equals. And now it is directly paralleled with the rivalry between Roger and Whitebeard, who we all know that were peers and equally as strong. There is even a reference to Roger-Whitebeard and Shanks-Mihawk fighting on par in 1 vs 1 and also getting along to drink together.
It's sad that this certain delusional biased fandom nonetheless continues to try to sustain that if you don't get along then that must be you definitely be equals or almost equals, who cares if anything else, feats, portrayal, benchmarks, paths, goals, roles, shows the opposite...
Face the reality. Deal with it. Portrayal is not what some people suggest. And stilll by any parameter, Zoro has much more parallels and things that he shares (portrayals, powers, goals, benchmarks) with Luffy than he has with Sanji. And most things that Zoro shares with Luffy, Sanji has not. Why, do you think? Maybe the correct answer is just the easiest one...
Yeah, maybe the easiest answer really is the correct one.
What do you think?
@Finalbeta @T.D.A @Zowo @yorosenpai @ConquistadoR @Fenaker @The White Crane @kumae @Geo @Sentinel @Orojackson Refugee @Peroroncino @Redboy776 @Rekien @Sword God Ryuma @nik87 @Manos. AsuraZoro @bennbeckman @mly90 @Akagami Law @style @Sanji D Goat @Marimo_420 @Shishi @Geo @Money D Malio @ShadowStyle369
But I mean, maybe they are right? Let's see.
EPISODE 1 "B-but they bicker, they must be close if not even equals!" Let's see.
An heated confrontation between two characters, depicted as polar opposites with one representing a cat and the other a dog, so cat vs dog, the fated battle of the nature world, not to mention the way the author draws them one edging against the other, so might, I mean, this is clear portrayal, these two are equals, case closed, deal done...
Surprise surprise: it's Lucci vs Jabra! And no one with a working brain would say that Lucci and Jabra are equals. So should be said for other characters with similar panels.
EPISODE 2 "B-but they are portrayed as rivals, clearly!" Let's go further and see, again.
A tough fight seems about to rise, the two opponents are going to move from bickering to a real last blood battle, look the way they glare between themselves, look the way the author depicts them as if they hold the same relevance, you can bet, the way the page is perfectly divided in two between these two hot headed warriors, I mean, you really can bet, these two are equals.
Sorry but no, again, here's another surprise! It's Kidd and Apoo! By any chance, is there some special friend who thinks that these two are equals? Don't be afraid, be coherent and tell us that Kidd and Apoo have the same strength!
EPISODE 3 "B-but the author showed them achieving the same feat, in a double page nonetheless!"
Oh, well, this is not desputable (or maybe it is...). This is written in stone (or maybe it is not...). I mean just look. Look the way these two defeat two equal opponents, no come on there's no doubt, they put the same effort to defeat two equally strong foes, and the author depicts this in a massive double page spread with both the guys being paralleled, if that's not 100% portrayal of being equals, then I don't know.
Do you like the surprise? Now prove your coherence. Prove it! Say that Drake is equal to Gear 4 Luffy! Say it!
You will be stupid but, at least, coherent.
You will be stupid but, at least, coherent.
EPISODE 4 - "B-but they are mentioned together!"
Something else need to be even said? These two character are mentioned together in the same phrase in the same category, no distinction, they are just "officials". Nuff said. No one is said to be the far stronger one, only "officers". This seals the deal. They are equals.
I want it. I want you to dare to say "yes, I said that if two people are mentioned together they are equals. Therefore Katakuri and Cracker, who have been mentioned together as "Big Mom's officers", are equals". Show your coherence, and say it!
EPISODE 5 - "B-but they challenge themselves in a manly contest!"
I know. I know. If two people challenge themselves at a contest, be it hunting, fishing or whatever like that, the two of them must be equals. You don't play a challenge with someone if you are not close to him!
Look, two guys challenging themselves... no one other than Luffy and Zoro that Oda had challenge themselves in hunting/fishing contests. Even more than once. Well I definitely remember some delusional people arguing that Zoro and Sanji challenging in similar contests meant that they were rivals, close in strength and what not. And what about this, then? Let's see these people's coherence!
I guess that for some reason that counted but this doesn't count as portrayal, am I right? For the series: if I don't like it then it does not count.
Funny how Oda could have easily set up the challenge between Zoro and Sanji, as all the Strawhats were available here: and instead he chose to have it between Luffy and Zoro.
I guess that for some reason that counted but this doesn't count as portrayal, am I right? For the series: if I don't like it then it does not count.
Funny how Oda could have easily set up the challenge between Zoro and Sanji, as all the Strawhats were available here: and instead he chose to have it between Luffy and Zoro.
So, as we just saw... hell, no. Two people can be both dangerous, or both being grouped together or doing something together the same way in the same panel, or both share the same title, and that's not portrayal of anything, and they can still be far apart in strength. Especially if everything else it was showed and stated about them shows and implies that.
Usual example is King and Queen.
They are mentioned together, don't get along and bicker... but when shit becomes real, Queen is the first one who obeys King, Queen even makes sure to worship King by hyping the power of his Lunarian race. Oda made a complete distinction between King (officially confirmed second strongest in the Beast Pirates, leader of the All Stars, and Kaido's right hand man of choice, received his name from Kaido who praised his strength, was hyped also by Queen, was showed as a killer machine) and Queen (a mere All Star and underling, no hype from Kaido, no hype from King, was showed as a scientist with flaws as a fighter).
Yeah, all that difference, inspite of all their bickering and the panel they appeared together.
Not to mention that being mentioned together means jackshit. Ofter we see characters getting mentioned as Strawhats, and so what, is Usopp equal to Luffy? The same goes for being mentioned generically as All Stars, Sweet Commanders, Titanic Captains, Supernovas: for example we have Law and Hawkins being mentioned together as Supernovas, but that doesn't mean anything, they just have the minimum requirements for being both part of that group and therefore being mentioned together, but that doesn't mean in anyway that they are close. The same goes for the rest.
The same goes for the famed "Wings" thing. That doesnt' mean anything in terms of strength, like a certain delusional biased fandom would desperately claim. It just refers to volume 73 SBS where Oda stated that both Zoro and Sanji are trustworthy men who cover Luffys's back. Which is, indeed, what they are, nothing more nothing less. Oda could have easily called them rivals or something in that issue, but, face the reality, he chose to not.
And, funny thing, even if he did (which, again, he chose to not do) being rivals doesn't mean anything.
You can bicker like Lucci vs Jabra, Kaku vs Jabra, King vs Queen, Luffy vs Kidd, Shanks vs Buggy, Mr 1 vs Mr 2: these are gag rivalries where people just don't get along or friendly compete. You can have a rivalry that is not friendly and not based on gags but is still far from making the two rivals close or equals, as one of the two is much stronger than the other, like Kidd vs Apoo, Zoro vs Killer, Luffy vs Koby.
The supposed rivalry between Zoro and Sanji is a mix of the two aforementioned situations.
A completely different thing are actual properly said rivalries, like Shanks vs Mihawk, Zoro vs Mihawk, Roger vs Garp, Roger vs Whitebeard, Teach vs Luffy. These are serious strength rivalries where people compete for the pinnacle of strength and/or the same important achievement, and if they fight they would draw of the winner would come out after an extreme diff battle.
People should just deal with it. Bickering and don't getting along well doesn't mean being rivals.
And being rivals still isn't absolutely the same thing as being equals and peers. It's just a competition between people with similar roles but different strength.
For example the way you could say that Cavendish and Zoro are rivals for being both Supernovas and swordsmen, and we know Zoro is much stronger, also you could say that Killer and Zoro are rivals for being both Supernovas and partners/number twos/first mates/right hands to their captain, and we know Zoro is much stronger, just like also Kidd and Luffy are rivals for being both Supernovas and Pirate King contenders, and we know Luffy is much stronger.
Hell, all the Supernovas, even Capone and Bonney, are stated to be rivals for Luffy. But, again, being rivals isn't absolutely the same thing as being equals and peers.
While the thing about, for example, Mihawk and Shanks is completely different. Their rivalry many times in the manga and in databooks and other official sources is stated to be a rivalry between equals. And now it is directly paralleled with the rivalry between Roger and Whitebeard, who we all know that were peers and equally as strong. There is even a reference to Roger-Whitebeard and Shanks-Mihawk fighting on par in 1 vs 1 and also getting along to drink together.
It's sad that this certain delusional biased fandom nonetheless continues to try to sustain that if you don't get along then that must be you definitely be equals or almost equals, who cares if anything else, feats, portrayal, benchmarks, paths, goals, roles, shows the opposite...
Face the reality. Deal with it. Portrayal is not what some people suggest. And stilll by any parameter, Zoro has much more parallels and things that he shares (portrayals, powers, goals, benchmarks) with Luffy than he has with Sanji. And most things that Zoro shares with Luffy, Sanji has not. Why, do you think? Maybe the correct answer is just the easiest one...
Yeah, maybe the easiest answer really is the correct one.
What do you think?
@Finalbeta @T.D.A @Zowo @yorosenpai @ConquistadoR @Fenaker @The White Crane @kumae @Geo @Sentinel @Orojackson Refugee @Peroroncino @Redboy776 @Rekien @Sword God Ryuma @nik87 @Manos. AsuraZoro @bennbeckman @mly90 @Akagami Law @style @Sanji D Goat @Marimo_420 @Shishi @Geo @Money D Malio @ShadowStyle369
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