Powers & Abilities Advanced Armament has nothing to do with Advanced Conqueror. PERIOD!

[WesMidnight]

Nah. Kaido can clearly do barrier Haki. Maybe not Luffy's ACoA, but Hakai definitely has Haki behind it. It even spoofs the word "Haki".

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1378846121720619009

There was a scene in which he hits Yamato and is not making contact.

Well calling Kinemon's barrier ryuo "odens haki" as if he has no understanding of ryuo makes me doubt that, but it is ill defined so who knows lol.
Luffy has adv CoA but he isn't shooting energy beams, of course it has some haki in it, but it could just as easily be adv CoC + air slash technique (vajra arrow for Kaido).

If that's the time I'm thinking of , that was perspective, not a not touching moment.

 

[Finalbeta]

Yeah pretty much.

They share a similar attacking pattern probably (I doubt ACoC doesn't involve penetration too cause it's no touch therefore it makes more sense to penetrate coz shockwaves work better with touch unless Oda fundamentally didn't care).

Overall still they stand as entirely different abilities in nature except they both haki.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

CoC is just a complement to CoA.

CoC applied to basic CoA hardening

But for Luffy to destroy Kaido from the "inside" he needed to do long range Haki blasts.

ACoC is just a mixture of Ryou/Internal Destruction with CoC.

But Chinjao Doffy and Katakuris attacks weren't leaking before contact tho and attacks that Luffy used against Katakuri won't even tickle Kaido as we saw Luffy use even stronger attacks hence Luffy said to even harm Kaido needs to learn need kind of Haki ACoA.

Yet Yamato could harm Kaido, get him on his knees etc.

 

[Finalbeta]

Chinjao's AP is usually profusely underrated. In fact he never even got the chance to test his new pointy drill properly.

 

[Herrera95]

Yeah pretty much.

They share a similar attacking pattern probably (I doubt ACoC doesn't involve penetration too cause it's no touch therefore it makes more sense to penetrate coz shockwaves work better with touch unless Oda fundamentally didn't care).

Overall still they stand as entirely different abilities in nature except they both haki.

To me Red Roc made a worst damage then Luffy's ACoC attacks in their 1v1.

 

[Loki D. Terror]

--BM also uses barrier adv coc same as luffy

--Whenever weapons are used with adv coc it makes contact when hands it doesn't

--And yeah adv coc is diff from adv coa

 

[Luffydom56]

In my opinion, the barrier haki can be used one step further by increasing the haki barrier to the extent that it penetrates the opponent's body without touching, while normal barrier only touches the surface of the opponent's body.

 

[Finalbeta]

To me Red Roc made a worst damage then Luffy's ACoC attacks in their 1v1.

Yeah I think so too. For sure G2 + ACoC is much stronger than G3 + ACoA.

 

[Herrera95]

Yeah I think so too. For sure G2 + ACoC is much stronger than G3 + ACoA.

I think I made a mistake in my words. I mean Red Roc made greater damage to Kaido. He looks worst after receiving Red Roc than after Luffy started punching him with ACoC.

 

[Shasha23]

Maybe its just me but advCOC works like this :

Since haki is willpower and COC is the strongest form of haki, for me applying COC into attack helps you overpower your enemies will rendering them defenceless, your COC ends up overpowering their will to fight.

Before we learned of advCoC we saw other COC users clashing and during some clashes their COC automatically came out, that was because of their strong desire to win, but with advCOC you can actively use it on every attack making it practically impossible for the other party to fight back unless they can do the same, this is why Kaido said those who can use advCOC are the strongest of the strong since it would be pretty much impossible to fight back as your won haki would be constantly overpowered by the person using advCOC.

We even have an example of Luffy trying to defend with COA against an advCOC and he was KO'd but now since he can actively use COC the same attacks are now ineffective.


Anyway, for me advCOC doesn't simply make you hit harder, it overpowers the opponents will rendering the enemy defenceless to your hits, and the basic form of COC is overpowering others wills, so advCOC is the higher form of overpowering others wills.

 

[ZenZu]

But Chinjao Doffy and Katakuris attacks weren't leaking before contact tho and attacks that Luffy used against Katakuri won't even tickle Kaido as we saw Luffy use even stronger attacks hence Luffy said to even harm Kaido needs to learn need kind of Haki ACoA.

Katakuri's was.

Spoiler

Luffy too but to a lesser extent

Spoiler

Then Katakuri proceeded to talk about levels to armament. Oda doesn't know wtf he's doing.

 

[comrade]

Yeah I think so too. For sure G2 + ACoC is much stronger than G3 + ACoA.

Luffy used a jet culverin infused with CoC while in Snakeman, albeit without barrier, but while being aided by Yamato's attack. Kaido no sold it pretty easily.
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Katakuri's was.

Spoiler

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I guess Oda makes a difference between leaking (black lightning coming out of the object or fist) and infusion, where the black energy forms around the fist.

But your point is valid anyways, because Oda isn't clear enough.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

Katakuri's was.

Spoiler

Luffy too but to a lesser extent

Spoiler

Then Katakuri proceeded to talk about levels to armament. Oda doesn't know wtf he's doing.

Its funny even Ultis meteors had those CoC like shockwaves but it was obviously just CoA.

I guess we just need to go by portrayal, Luffy was unable to hurt Kaido with strongest attacks he used on Katakuri and had to learn new form of Haki so he couldn't have possed the Haki to hurt Kaido in WCI.

 

[ZenZu]

Its funny even Ultis meteors had those CoC like shockwaves but it was obviously just CoA.

I guess we just need to go by portrayal, Luffy was unable to hurt Kaido with strongest attacks he used on Katakuri and had to learn new form of Haki so he couldn't have possed the Haki to hurt Kaido in WCI.

I guess Oda makes a difference between leaking (black lightning coming out of the object or fist) and infusion, where the black energy forms around the fist.

But your point is valid anyways, because Oda isn't clear enough.

This begs the question wtf was Katakuri using?

Was it the result of high level armament meeting a born conqueror? (I don't recall Ulti's haki leaking prior to landing the attack)

Was it extremely high level hardening but not outward armament? (Since haki is not an all or none phenomena)

Was it straight up the ability to destroy from inside? (Since Luffy's hands were throbbing despite armament reinforcement, but not bleeding from outside)
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Edit: So i just checked. Ulti was also leaking prior to landing. But like @comrade said it's slightly different than how CoC leak looks visually. The issue is thunder bagua often looks visually similar. And there's no way to tell if someone has outward armament or CoC cause Luffy was making direct contact at times either which way.

Again Oda is a moron when it comes to this.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Katakuri's was.

Spoiler

Luffy too but to a lesser extent

Spoiler

Then Katakuri proceeded to talk about levels to armament. Oda doesn't know wtf he's doing.

When kata used diced mochi, it looks almost exactly like ACoC

 

[Herrera95]

This begs the question wtf was Katakuri using?

Was it the result of high level armament meeting a born conqueror? (I don't recall Ulti's haki leaking prior to landing the attack)

Was it extremely high level hardening but not outward armament? (Since haki is not an all or none phenomena)

Was it straight up the ability to destroy from inside? (Since Luffy's hands were throbbing despite armament reinforcement, but not bleeding from outside)
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Edit: So i just checked. Ulti was also leaking prior to landing. But like @comrade said it's slightly different than how CoC leak looks visually. The issue is thunder bagua often looks visually similar. And there's no way to tell if someone has outward armament or CoC cause Luffy was making direct contact at times either which way.

Again Oda is a moron when it comes to this.

To me is simple. Katakuri had better/stronger haki.

Just like Law couldn't immediatly cut Smoker with his ability but somehow he cutted Vergo full body haki. Law said he couldn't use his ability on Yonkos because their haki was too strong.

Zoro haki overpowered Pica... but he was leaking haki so maybe he already used ACoC?

Maybe Katakuri was using Barrier Haki(aka Ryou)? But not internal damage. Or the opposite?

Not sure, a little confusing. It is simple to just think Katakuri haki was stronger than Luffy.

 

[ShishioIsBack]

This begs the question wtf was Katakuri using?

Was it the result of high level armament meeting a born conqueror? (I don't recall Ulti's haki leaking prior to landing the attack)

Was it extremely high level hardening but not outward armament? (Since haki is not an all or none phenomena)

Was it straight up the ability to destroy from inside? (Since Luffy's hands were throbbing despite armament reinforcement, but not bleeding from outside)
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Edit: So i just checked. Ulti was also leaking prior to landing. But like @comrade said it's slightly different than how CoC leak looks visually. The issue is thunder bagua often looks visually similar. And there's no way to tell if someone has outward armament or CoC cause Luffy was making direct contact at times either which way.

Again Oda is a moron when it comes to this.

Hardening leaks too, Zoros swords are always leaking tho they could be conquerors as Zoro always had ability to hurt Kaido

 

[yamoden]

Adv coc is like hardening
Coated you arm or weapon with it
But the thing is that only a handfull can unlocked it
And like hardening it has another lvl to (not touching) who is basically a barrier
Luffy is using internal destruction with coc that is why it is so strong
Shanks does the same probably

 

[Ven437]

CoC infusion is lightning trail.

CoA emission is invisible punch.

Both can be combined.

This is not hard to underestand people.

Yamato only uses CoC infusion. Base Kaido's Thunder bagua was only imbued with CoC. The one that KOd G4 Luffy and he hit Kinemon with.

Only Roger, WB, Kaido, BM, and Luffy have shown to be able to use ACoA + ACoC. They have lightning trail + invisible force.

Also clash between Conquerors =/= ACoC being used. That is just a clash between conquerors. No lightning trail, no CoC infusion.

 

[Finalbeta]

The odds want that Asura more probably corresponds to Current Zoro's CoC by itself for a matter of timing but also complex dynamic, but that won't necessarily prove the case or regardless forever cause eventually Zoro will be capable to use CoC independently from his Asura mode. That would be mind blowing considering he is already broken this way.